My local meta involves the new Dega decks and ultimately decks utilizing Obzedat, Blood Baron, and interactions with Erebos's Whip. I like Ooze because it's still just as good a bear as Voice but is harder to hose with Anger of the Gods. That card is absolutely rampant in my meta and I'd like a little more safety against it than hoping I have a timely Boros Charm.
Pretty stock, we ended up ditching Domri in favor of Advent of the Wurm, primarily because it can give Blood Baron of Vizkopa decks a complete headache, and you can Bestow Boon on for big beats. We wanted more evasion than Dragon and Aurelia, and it really paid off. I cannot say that I miss Domri Rade at all, we were originally using him to fight pesky creatures away and it would cost us a Smiter against red decks with burn or it was a forced trade that we did not always want to make. The extra fat evasive body just seemed to be better for us.
Chandra is on my chopping block, the others are on the fence about her, but I think her spot could be better off with something else, but then again I am not sure. I did not see her very often and when I did I just felt like something was missing. Idk. I will give her some more time though.
Pretty stock, we ended up ditching Domri in favor of Advent of the Wurm, primarily because it can give Blood Baron of Vizkopa decks a complete headache, and you can Bestow Boon on for big beats. We wanted more evasion than Dragon and Aurelia, and it really paid off. I cannot say that I miss Domri Rade at all, we were originally using him to fight pesky creatures away and it would cost us a Smiter against red decks with burn or it was a forced trade that we did not always want to make. The extra fat evasive body just seemed to be better for us.
Chandra is on my chopping block, the others are on the fence about her, but I think her spot could be better off with something else, but then again I am not sure. I did not see her very often and when I did I just felt like something was missing. Idk. I will give her some more time though.
our lists are extremely simliar except Aurelia/Advent to my 4th Dragon/Domri.
I havent tested against the dega deck all too much, had a little time making the RDW matchup better than it was.
I have found Aurelia just isnt needed and can sometimes be a dead card where as if it was a dragon you couldve won. I feel its a bit win-more personally. If we went a little bigger with like kolonian hydras or something like that then aurelia seems SWEET.
I havent tested advent recently but I have back in the gap and I do love the card. I just know how backbreaking it is so some decks to have a turn 2 domri stick.
Chandra has been on the chopping block as well. If I do cut her it would likely be for mizzium mortars if anything.
Recent changes I went from 4 boon satyr to 4 fleecemane lion in the mainboard and put in 2 centaur healer and took out 1 destructive revelry and 1 ruric thar(mainboard is already pretty good against control and I already bring in 6 cards against them).
This is how my rdw testing went today
Pre-board:
win - twice
lost - twice. My loses where the following;
1 game I kept a bad hand(experimenting to see if I can) and realized I couldnt. We need action on turn 2 against them
1 game I mulled 2 5 and didnt hit my 3rd land in time. If i would have i likely couldve won. My hand was land, fleecemane, 3x smiter. I rip one land, but not the other until turn 5. And by then its too late.
Post-board:
Win - 6
Lose - 2
this is much better than my previous 4-4 I had post-board.Centaur healer helped in more than one way. He helps take out some of the higher cmc for a much leaner focused Big Zoo deck sorta.
Also not sure how much I like assemble the legion right now with all the enchantment hate and glare. Which btw idk if you tested it, its pretty damn sweet.
Made some attempts to make the deck faster by dropping the Boros and Adding the Dryad Militants. The deck now resembles a Selsnaya deck + StormBreath + Burn which I think is pretty Ideal... However, I love my reckoners, and really cant decided on whether I want to keep the loxodons or reckoners...I am also starting to think chained to the rocks is superior to Mizzium Mortars for large creature removal..
Aurelia is really in there to end it with Wurms against RWB Midrange. Wurms can be problematic for them and even though they crush Blood Baron, if push comes to shove, they will throw blood baron under the bus to buy time for the removal for the wurm tokens. I can get behind the fact that the 4th Dragon is probably more crucial, but Wurms buy you a lot more time than the dragon does if you need it and Aurelia converts it into a win from behind when you have no business winning, which I do not always get out of the Dragon.
I like cutting Chandra for Mizzium Mortars, I think that is a more than fair swap.
I play Glare in RWB and it is pretty great. Mzzium Mortars in the MB over Chandra and Glare in the SB seems like a great way to approach the mirror as well, I think I will push the group for those changes.
I wish I had as much info for you guys here as I do in the Mythic Midrange thread, but I just don't have anywhere near enough data on this deck in comparison.
I will say that this deck seems very capable of being the next deck. It is stupid good.
Aurelia is really in there to end it with Wurms against RWB Midrange. Wurms can be problematic for them and even though they crush Blood Baron, if push comes to shove, they will throw blood baron under the bus to buy time for the removal for the wurm tokens. I can get behind the fact that the 4th Dragon is probably more crucial, but Wurms buy you a lot more time than the dragon does if you need it and Aurelia converts it into a win from behind when you have no business winning, which I do not always get out of the Dragon.
I like cutting Chandra for Mizzium Mortars, I think that is a more than fair swap.
I play Glare in RWB and it is pretty great. Mzzium Mortars in the MB over Chandra and Glare in the SB seems like a great way to approach the mirror as well, I think I will push the group for those changes.
I wish I had as much info for you guys here as I do in the Mythic Midrange thread, but I just don't have anywhere near enough data on this deck in comparison.
I will say that this deck seems very capable of being the next deck. It is stupid good.
Yea I think i will switch the chandras/mortars because she is still pretty good against the RG decks. Since mortars doesnt kill ember swallower he is a little annoying. Chandra helps pusha lot of dmg in that matchup.
Also against rdw I made my board be able to side in 9 cards and take out all my 4cmc walkers and stormbreath dragon, which drastically lowers the curve of the deck and makes ghor-clan the most expensive thing.
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Centaur Healers
2 Selesnya Charm(better than a 4 mana walker)
2 Mizzium Mortars
I like it a lot though it still needs a lot of work and fine tuning, particularly not sure about the amount of mana dorks. I might be completely replacing the mana dorks with aggro creatures. Idk yet though. They are good for accelerating into earlier Stormbreath Dragons, bigger Mistcutter Hydras, etc. but I'm not sure if it would just be better to pack the deck full of more threats. It's heavy on combat tricks both because it serves as 'removal' and causes a lot more damage than the opponent expects.
The mainboard is good vs. control while also being able to race other aggro decks if I get a decent enough hand.
Vs. Control not much changes from the SB except possible adding in the extra Mistcutter Hydra somewhere. If they have red or black removal Fiendslayer can also be put in, but he's much slower and probably not recommended.
Vs. Midrange I'm assuming they will have a lot of removal so I might add in Fiendslayer particularly if they are Jund, Junk, Mythic, etc. If they are removing the Fleecemane Lions I add in the Voice of Resurgence in for them instead. If Desecration Demon or Obzedat are a problem then I add in more Selesnya Charm.
Fiendslayer seems really good against RDW. Like pretty unbeatable. My only concern is being able to reliably cast him turn 3. We can reliably cast Centaur healer on turn 2-3. Things have to go really right to cast fiendslayer turn 2, and mana has to be right for turn 3. Seems not hard. I may playtest him in place.
edit:
I would def play VoR over the caryatid. I used to play him but a turn 2 0/3 defender hexproof isnt exacty what we want to be doing if you are on the more aggressive plan.
Xenagos is amazing. Idk if you've played with him or not yet but he is sweet. We dont use his +1 too often but when we do its usually pretty good. Here is a sweet example
My opp taps out for jace and I have Fleecemane lion and mana dork(turn 4) and he also has a omenspeaker.
I play xenagos, into domri, fight fleecemane with omenspeaker and kill jace. That was a sweet turn.
Fiendslayer seems really good against RDW. Like pretty unbeatable. My only concern is being able to reliably cast him turn 3. We can reliably cast Centaur healer on turn 2-3. Things have to go really right to cast fiendslayer turn 2, and mana has to be right for turn 3. Seems not hard. I may playtest him in place.
edit:
I would def play VoR over the caryatid. I used to play him but a turn 2 0/3 defender hexproof isnt exacty what we want to be doing if you are on the more aggressive plan.
Xenagos is amazing. Idk if you've played with him or not yet but he is sweet. We dont use his +1 too often but when we do its usually pretty good. Here is a sweet example
My opp taps out for jace and I have Fleecemane lion and mana dork(turn 4) and he also has a omenspeaker.
I play xenagos, into domri, fight fleecemane with omenspeaker and kill jace. That was a sweet turn.
Domri and Xenagos are bros-4-life
Yeah you should try Fiendslayer. He has ridiculous sticking power vs any red/black decks and if you throw a Ghor-Clan bloodrush onto him you gain back 6 life and kill anything that tries to block it before regular combat damage is even registered. They basically have no answers for him besides Stormbreath Dragon or Anger of the Gods.
Yeah after typing out that post I am really considering dropping the mana dorks, particularly Caryatid, since he cannot even swing for damage on an open field. His mana fixing ability was always useful though.
Xenagos, I agree, is really good for the control matchup but leaves much to be desired vs. aggro + midrange.
Yeah you should try Fiendslayer. He has ridiculous sticking power vs any red/black decks and if you throw a Ghor-Clan bloodrush onto him you gain back 6 life and kill anything that tries to block it before regular combat damage is even registered. They basically have no answers for him besides Stormbreath Dragon or Anger of the Gods.
Yeah after typing out that post I am really considering dropping the mana dorks, particularly Caryatid, since he cannot even swing for damage on an open field. His mana fixing ability was always useful though.
Xenagos, I agree, is really good for the control matchup but leaves much to be desired vs. aggro + midrange.
vs midrange he isnt too bad because you can ramp pretty hard into a mosterous stormbreath dragon(i've played and activated him in one turn twice so far) because of Xenagos. I do aggree that against aggro he is pretty meh but you will tend to have cards like that if you gear your deck towards certain matchups. You can gear it towards aggro or more towards mid/control matchups. I have geared more towards midrange/control as you can tell with the 9 walkers.
vs midrange he isnt too bad because you can ramp pretty hard into a mosterous stormbreath dragon(i've played and activated him in one turn twice so far) because of Xenagos. I do aggree that against aggro he is pretty meh but you will tend to have cards like that if you gear your deck towards certain matchups. You can gear it towards aggro or more towards mid/control matchups. I have geared more towards midrange/control as you can tell with the 9 walkers.
Changed up my list a bit and tested it on Cockatrice per your suggestions and a few of my own ideas, and its performing much better.
+ Stormbreath Dragon x1
+ Voice of Resurgence x4
+ 1 land
Mistcutter was cut from the MB just because he was essentially the same cost as Stormbreath Dragon with different protections(typically cast for 4G or 3G)-- and no flying, so not as good except vs. Control since he cannot be countered.
Sylvan Caryatid was cut for Voice of Resurgence and I'm liking it a lot more because it makes the deck more aggressive and also dissuades responses to my slew of combat tricks. And a land added since there's less ramp now.
Xenagos just cut because he was too slow and if he got hit with Hero's Downfall or a burn spell he would end up being a 2/2 Satyr for 4 mana.. not worth it in most matchups.
One more change I plan on making is adding another Boon Satyr and taking out either a Loxodon Smiter or a VoR/Fleecemane. Not sure which but Satyr has been a really great combat trick that makes a creature resilient to removal. Just not sure which creature to cut for it.
Keeping the Mystics in for now mostly because they help get out an earlier Domri/Stormbreath/Bestowed Boon Satyr, and that is good stuff for me, probably more valuable than an Experiment One. But he still warrants some testing. Any 1 drop that eats removal should be considered.
The SB changes are pretty obvious, 3x Mistcutter for control, as well as 2x Xenagos if I think that it will help me in G2. And the rest unchanged.
+ Stormbreath Dragon x1
+ Voice of Resurgence x4
+ 1 land
Mistcutter was cut from the MB just because he was essentially the same cost as Stormbreath Dragon with different protections(typically cast for 4G or 3G)-- and no flying, so not as good except vs. Control since he cannot be countered.
Sylvan Caryatid was cut for Voice of Resurgence and I'm liking it a lot more because it makes the deck more aggressive and also dissuades responses to my slew of combat tricks. And a land added since there's less ramp now.
Xenagos just cut because he was too slow and if he got hit with Hero's Downfall or a burn spell he would end up being a 2/2 Satyr for 4 mana.. not worth it in most matchups.
One more change I plan on making is adding another Boon Satyr and taking out either a Loxodon Smiter or a VoR/Fleecemane. Not sure which but Satyr has been a really great combat trick that makes a creature resilient to removal. Just not sure which creature to cut for it.
Keeping the Mystics in for now mostly because they help get out an earlier Domri/Stormbreath/Bestowed Boon Satyr, and that is good stuff for me, probably more valuable than an Experiment One. But he still warrants some testing. Any 1 drop that eats removal should be considered.
The SB changes are pretty obvious, 3x Mistcutter for control, as well as 2x Xenagos if I think that it will help me in G2. And the rest unchanged.
I Like your list. Seems alot like my own..Just a few questions..
1. Do you feel like the manadorks are worth it in most situations over a card like Driad Militant?
2. Why Boros Charm > Burn?
3. What kind of land are you running? And if you are running scry lands, do you feel that make you to slow early in the game?
4. And why Boon? its a 4/2 flash for 3.... I dont quite see the value over a Loxodon or especially a Reckoner
Im glad to see Boon Satyr is making its way into more and more deck lists. In regards to him, Do people use him more as a flash blocker? or a flash bestow to pump up a blocker?
Just curious what peoples experience has been with him.
Im glad to see Boon Satyr is making its way into more and more deck lists. In regards to him, Do people use him more as a flash blocker? or a flash bestow to pump up a blocker?
Just curious what peoples experience has been with him.
As an end-of-turn creature, to beat for 4, of course. My only problem with him lately is that he dies to Magma Jet, but, that's not exatly the end of the world, or his run in my deck.
I Like your list. Seems alot like my own..Just a few questions..
1. Do you feel like the manadorks are worth it in most situations over a card like Driad Militant?
2. Why Boros Charm > Burn?
3. What kind of land are you running? And if you are running scry lands, do you feel that make you to slow early in the game?
4. And why Boon? its a 4/2 flash for 3.... I dont quite see the value over a Loxodon or especially a Reckoner
1. I'm not sure yet, but Mystic does power out a turn earlier Smiter, Boon Satyr, etc. and I think that is pretty valuable. He chumps block later too. I wouldnt run Dryad Militant ever, but Experiment One is consideration for that slot.
2. Boros Charm first off has multiple modes, saving some value creatures with the indestructible mode, and the double strike mode can do upwards of 8-10 damage with combat tricks whichi s way more than any burn. The 4 damage is the least used mode but can be used as a finisher.
3. I'm running 4 scry lands, and yeah they can be a little slow but honestly they make up for it by tucking excess lands later in the game.
4. Boon Satyr is a card I wasn't confident about until I actually used it. It's amazing. It can be an early beater with 4 power if needed, it can be a flash-blocker at times, but most of all it can be a huge buff for any of the creatures that is also a flash combat trick. It's really useful.
Im glad to see Boon Satyr is making its way into more and more deck lists. In regards to him, Do people use him more as a flash blocker? or a flash bestow to pump up a blocker?
Just curious what peoples experience has been with him.
Mostly as a bestow pump up on an attacker for me. Sometimes a blocker, too, depending on the situation, but that is definitely the most useful way to use him. Against control he's often just a quick beater, though.
1. I'm not sure yet, but Mystic does power out a turn earlier Smiter, Boon Satyr, etc. and I think that is pretty valuable. He chumps block later too. I wouldnt run Dryad Militant ever, but Experiment One is consideration for that slot.
Why not ever? And I actually dropped my recokoners and mana dorks and instead run expirments ones and dryads to keep it fast and consistent. However a turn 2 loxodon does sound sweet.
2. Boros Charm first off has multiple modes, saving some value creatures with the indestructible mode, and the double strike mode can do upwards of 8-10 damage with combat tricks whichi s way more than any burn. The 4 damage is the least used mode but can be used as a finisher.
Thanks for pointing this out. I never really considered the charms, and may now sub them for some burn. They are versatile. If you had to use the or the Selesnya charms... which would you use?
3. I'm running 4 scry lands, and yeah they can be a little slow but honestly they make up for it by tucking excess lands later in the game.
Noted.
4. Boon Satyr is a card I wasn't confident about until I actually used it. It's amazing. It can be an early beater with 4 power if needed, it can be a flash-blocker at times, but most of all it can be a huge buff for any of the creatures that is also a flash combat trick. It's really useful.
Ok... i dont find him awesome.. at all. First he required 2 green in a 3 color deck with limited resources. Secondly, who really leaves 3 mana open for a possible block in an aggro deck? Thirdly, if you did use him to block he would most certainly die due to his 2 toughness, his bestow costs wayyy to much, and loxodon is a 4/4 uncounterable for the same cost, and reckoner.. is well reckoner
Boon satyr is only really dissappointing against decks with shock/magma jet.
He also blocks and kills blood baron, which is something to note.
He was one of the creatures I wasnt sure on ether at first. But he has def shown his worth. I've used him as all sorts of things. Its really good to bestow on any of our 4 power guys because we immediately get a 8/x creature. Which btw is huge.
Edit: Boon Satyr is usually way easier to cast than reckoner. But they are also on compeltely opposite spectrums.
Reckoner is great vs Aggro
Boon Satyr is super sweet vs Control
The one thing though is that boon satyr can still do things against aggro(all be it not the best things). While reckoner doesnt do much against control except beat for 3. He is a 3/3 for 3. Fleecemane for another mana with no upside monstorious
Boon satyr is only really dissappointing against decks with shock/magma jet.
He also blocks and kills blood baron, which is something to note.
He was one of the creatures I wasnt sure on ether at first. But he has def shown his worth. I've used him as all sorts of things. Its really good to bestow on any of our 4 power guys because we immediately get a 8/x creature. Which btw is huge.
Would you venture to say that in order to consistently run boon satyr effectivly mana dorks are needed due to its double green cost and its high cost bestow ability?
Would you venture to say that in order to consistently run boon satyr effectivly mana dorks are needed due to its double green cost and its high cost bestow ability?
Not really. I think he is likely to be more of a meta choice.
Reckoner vs Boon Satyr. I just really hate reckoners manacost. Its really restricting I find in this deck without avacyn pilgrim. I miss that guy. And if you run reckoner I also feel you need to run caryatid to smoothe out your mana problems.
Not really. I think he is likely to be more of a meta choice.
Reckoner vs Boon Satyr. I just really hate reckoners manacost. Its really restricting I find in this deck without avacyn pilgrim. I miss that guy. And if you run reckoner I also feel you need to run caryatid to smoothe out your mana problems.
I agree.. Reckoner would be awesome if we still had the consistent manabase pre-rotation.. but it is cause for concern.
I playtested the caryatids with reckoners and it did smoothe things out, but weighed the deck down quite a bit. I think the smart choice is actually the Loxodons at this point. They only require 1 of each mana source, are uncounterable, and a 4/4...
On a side note.. I know its way to early to tell, but how do you feel naya stacks up against selesnaya... The w/g deck is aweful fast...
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3 Boon Satyr
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Magma Jet
Enchantments (2)
2 Chained to the Rocks
Lands (25)
1 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Domri Rade
My local meta involves the new Dega decks and ultimately decks utilizing Obzedat, Blood Baron, and interactions with Erebos's Whip. I like Ooze because it's still just as good a bear as Voice but is harder to hose with Anger of the Gods. That card is absolutely rampant in my meta and I'd like a little more safety against it than hoping I have a timely Boros Charm.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Fleecmane Lion
3 Boon Satyr
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
Planeswalker (5)
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Advent of the Wurm
Land (24)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Grounds
2 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Abandon
4 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Assemble the Legion
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Boros Charm
3 Destructive Revelry
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
Pretty stock, we ended up ditching Domri in favor of Advent of the Wurm, primarily because it can give Blood Baron of Vizkopa decks a complete headache, and you can Bestow Boon on for big beats. We wanted more evasion than Dragon and Aurelia, and it really paid off. I cannot say that I miss Domri Rade at all, we were originally using him to fight pesky creatures away and it would cost us a Smiter against red decks with burn or it was a forced trade that we did not always want to make. The extra fat evasive body just seemed to be better for us.
Chandra is on my chopping block, the others are on the fence about her, but I think her spot could be better off with something else, but then again I am not sure. I did not see her very often and when I did I just felt like something was missing. Idk. I will give her some more time though.
Lol.. I wasnt referring to your decklist. However, in testing every scry land I pulled slowed me down significantly before turn 4.
Oh.
They are slow, however I love seeing them a bit later in the match, tucking land off the top is pretty big.
our lists are extremely simliar except Aurelia/Advent to my 4th Dragon/Domri.
I havent tested against the dega deck all too much, had a little time making the RDW matchup better than it was.
I have found Aurelia just isnt needed and can sometimes be a dead card where as if it was a dragon you couldve won. I feel its a bit win-more personally. If we went a little bigger with like kolonian hydras or something like that then aurelia seems SWEET.
I havent tested advent recently but I have back in the gap and I do love the card. I just know how backbreaking it is so some decks to have a turn 2 domri stick.
Chandra has been on the chopping block as well. If I do cut her it would likely be for mizzium mortars if anything.
Recent changes I went from 4 boon satyr to 4 fleecemane lion in the mainboard and put in 2 centaur healer and took out 1 destructive revelry and 1 ruric thar(mainboard is already pretty good against control and I already bring in 6 cards against them).
This is how my rdw testing went today
Pre-board:
win - twice
lost - twice. My loses where the following;
1 game I kept a bad hand(experimenting to see if I can) and realized I couldnt. We need action on turn 2 against them
1 game I mulled 2 5 and didnt hit my 3rd land in time. If i would have i likely couldve won. My hand was land, fleecemane, 3x smiter. I rip one land, but not the other until turn 5. And by then its too late.
Post-board:
Win - 6
Lose - 2
this is much better than my previous 4-4 I had post-board.Centaur healer helped in more than one way. He helps take out some of the higher cmc for a much leaner focused Big Zoo deck sorta.
Also not sure how much I like assemble the legion right now with all the enchantment hate and glare. Which btw idk if you tested it, its pretty damn sweet.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Hows this look?
3x Domri Rade
Creatures
4x Dryad Militant
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Experiment One
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Loxodon Smiter
3x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Magma Jet
4x Mizzium Mortars
Lands
5x Forest
3x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple Garden
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I like cutting Chandra for Mizzium Mortars, I think that is a more than fair swap.
I play Glare in RWB and it is pretty great. Mzzium Mortars in the MB over Chandra and Glare in the SB seems like a great way to approach the mirror as well, I think I will push the group for those changes.
I wish I had as much info for you guys here as I do in the Mythic Midrange thread, but I just don't have anywhere near enough data on this deck in comparison.
I will say that this deck seems very capable of being the next deck. It is stupid good.
Yea I think i will switch the chandras/mortars because she is still pretty good against the RG decks. Since mortars doesnt kill ember swallower he is a little annoying. Chandra helps pusha lot of dmg in that matchup.
Also against rdw I made my board be able to side in 9 cards and take out all my 4cmc walkers and stormbreath dragon, which drastically lowers the curve of the deck and makes ghor-clan the most expensive thing.
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Centaur Healers
2 Selesnya Charm(better than a 4 mana walker)
2 Mizzium Mortars
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Boon Satyr
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Boros Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
Planeswalker
4 Domri Rade
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Selesnya Charm
1 Mistcutter Hydra
I like it a lot though it still needs a lot of work and fine tuning, particularly not sure about the amount of mana dorks. I might be completely replacing the mana dorks with aggro creatures. Idk yet though. They are good for accelerating into earlier Stormbreath Dragons, bigger Mistcutter Hydras, etc. but I'm not sure if it would just be better to pack the deck full of more threats. It's heavy on combat tricks both because it serves as 'removal' and causes a lot more damage than the opponent expects.
The mainboard is good vs. control while also being able to race other aggro decks if I get a decent enough hand.
Vs. Control not much changes from the SB except possible adding in the extra Mistcutter Hydra somewhere. If they have red or black removal Fiendslayer can also be put in, but he's much slower and probably not recommended.
Vs. Midrange I'm assuming they will have a lot of removal so I might add in Fiendslayer particularly if they are Jund, Junk, Mythic, etc. If they are removing the Fleecemane Lions I add in the Voice of Resurgence in for them instead. If Desecration Demon or Obzedat are a problem then I add in more Selesnya Charm.
Vs. Aggro is where the most significant sideboard changes are made. Boros Reckoner goes in as well as Fiendslayer Paladin if they are R or RB, Mistcutter and Stormbreath or Boon Satyr come out. Fleecemane Lion comes out for Voice of Resurgence as well if they have a lot of burn/removal. Xenagos and possibly a Domri come out for Mizzium Mortars.
Cards which I'm questionable of in the build:
Username: Cabz
edit:
I would def play VoR over the caryatid. I used to play him but a turn 2 0/3 defender hexproof isnt exacty what we want to be doing if you are on the more aggressive plan.
Xenagos is amazing. Idk if you've played with him or not yet but he is sweet. We dont use his +1 too often but when we do its usually pretty good. Here is a sweet example
My opp taps out for jace and I have Fleecemane lion and mana dork(turn 4) and he also has a omenspeaker.
I play xenagos, into domri, fight fleecemane with omenspeaker and kill jace. That was a sweet turn.
Domri and Xenagos are bros-4-life
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Yeah you should try Fiendslayer. He has ridiculous sticking power vs any red/black decks and if you throw a Ghor-Clan bloodrush onto him you gain back 6 life and kill anything that tries to block it before regular combat damage is even registered. They basically have no answers for him besides Stormbreath Dragon or Anger of the Gods.
Yeah after typing out that post I am really considering dropping the mana dorks, particularly Caryatid, since he cannot even swing for damage on an open field. His mana fixing ability was always useful though.
Xenagos, I agree, is really good for the control matchup but leaves much to be desired vs. aggro + midrange.
Username: Cabz
vs midrange he isnt too bad because you can ramp pretty hard into a mosterous stormbreath dragon(i've played and activated him in one turn twice so far) because of Xenagos. I do aggree that against aggro he is pretty meh but you will tend to have cards like that if you gear your deck towards certain matchups. You can gear it towards aggro or more towards mid/control matchups. I have geared more towards midrange/control as you can tell with the 9 walkers.
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Changed up my list a bit and tested it on Cockatrice per your suggestions and a few of my own ideas, and its performing much better.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Boon Satyr
4 Boros Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
Planeswalker
4 Domri Rade
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Selesnya Charm
So for MB that was
- Mistcutter Hydra x2
- Sylvan Caryatid x3
- Xenagos, the Reveler x1
+ Stormbreath Dragon x1
+ Voice of Resurgence x4
+ 1 land
Mistcutter was cut from the MB just because he was essentially the same cost as Stormbreath Dragon with different protections(typically cast for 4G or 3G)-- and no flying, so not as good except vs. Control since he cannot be countered.
Sylvan Caryatid was cut for Voice of Resurgence and I'm liking it a lot more because it makes the deck more aggressive and also dissuades responses to my slew of combat tricks. And a land added since there's less ramp now.
Xenagos just cut because he was too slow and if he got hit with Hero's Downfall or a burn spell he would end up being a 2/2 Satyr for 4 mana.. not worth it in most matchups.
One more change I plan on making is adding another Boon Satyr and taking out either a Loxodon Smiter or a VoR/Fleecemane. Not sure which but Satyr has been a really great combat trick that makes a creature resilient to removal. Just not sure which creature to cut for it.
Keeping the Mystics in for now mostly because they help get out an earlier Domri/Stormbreath/Bestowed Boon Satyr, and that is good stuff for me, probably more valuable than an Experiment One. But he still warrants some testing. Any 1 drop that eats removal should be considered.
The SB changes are pretty obvious, 3x Mistcutter for control, as well as 2x Xenagos if I think that it will help me in G2. And the rest unchanged.
Username: Cabz
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I Like your list. Seems alot like my own..Just a few questions..
1. Do you feel like the manadorks are worth it in most situations over a card like Driad Militant?
2. Why Boros Charm > Burn?
3. What kind of land are you running? And if you are running scry lands, do you feel that make you to slow early in the game?
4. And why Boon? its a 4/2 flash for 3.... I dont quite see the value over a Loxodon or especially a Reckoner
Just curious what peoples experience has been with him.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
As an end-of-turn creature, to beat for 4, of course. My only problem with him lately is that he dies to Magma Jet, but, that's not exatly the end of the world, or his run in my deck.
Agreed. I ended up cutting the additional land, but 4 Boros is too much.
1. I'm not sure yet, but Mystic does power out a turn earlier Smiter, Boon Satyr, etc. and I think that is pretty valuable. He chumps block later too. I wouldnt run Dryad Militant ever, but Experiment One is consideration for that slot.
2. Boros Charm first off has multiple modes, saving some value creatures with the indestructible mode, and the double strike mode can do upwards of 8-10 damage with combat tricks whichi s way more than any burn. The 4 damage is the least used mode but can be used as a finisher.
3. I'm running 4 scry lands, and yeah they can be a little slow but honestly they make up for it by tucking excess lands later in the game.
4. Boon Satyr is a card I wasn't confident about until I actually used it. It's amazing. It can be an early beater with 4 power if needed, it can be a flash-blocker at times, but most of all it can be a huge buff for any of the creatures that is also a flash combat trick. It's really useful.
Mostly as a bestow pump up on an attacker for me. Sometimes a blocker, too, depending on the situation, but that is definitely the most useful way to use him. Against control he's often just a quick beater, though.
Username: Cabz
He also blocks and kills blood baron, which is something to note.
He was one of the creatures I wasnt sure on ether at first. But he has def shown his worth. I've used him as all sorts of things. Its really good to bestow on any of our 4 power guys because we immediately get a 8/x creature. Which btw is huge.
Edit: Boon Satyr is usually way easier to cast than reckoner. But they are also on compeltely opposite spectrums.
Reckoner is great vs Aggro
Boon Satyr is super sweet vs Control
The one thing though is that boon satyr can still do things against aggro(all be it not the best things). While reckoner doesnt do much against control except beat for 3. He is a 3/3 for 3. Fleecemane for another mana with no upside monstorious
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Would you venture to say that in order to consistently run boon satyr effectivly mana dorks are needed due to its double green cost and its high cost bestow ability?
Not really. I think he is likely to be more of a meta choice.
Reckoner vs Boon Satyr. I just really hate reckoners manacost. Its really restricting I find in this deck without avacyn pilgrim. I miss that guy. And if you run reckoner I also feel you need to run caryatid to smoothe out your mana problems.
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I agree.. Reckoner would be awesome if we still had the consistent manabase pre-rotation.. but it is cause for concern.
I playtested the caryatids with reckoners and it did smoothe things out, but weighed the deck down quite a bit. I think the smart choice is actually the Loxodons at this point. They only require 1 of each mana source, are uncounterable, and a 4/4...
On a side note.. I know its way to early to tell, but how do you feel naya stacks up against selesnaya... The w/g deck is aweful fast...