can someone explain why boon satyr is good? I mean sweet he has flash? He's a 4/2. I mean I guess hes a weird kill spell? He survives literally nothing.
can someone explain why boon satyr is good? I mean sweet he has flash? He's a 4/2. I mean I guess hes a weird kill spell? He survives literally nothing.
He's aggressive for green, a good combat trick, and plays well against countermagic.
We do have access to Smiter though. I'd say Boon Satyr is better in RG than here, but he's not bad here.
can someone explain why boon satyr is good? I mean sweet he has flash? He's a 4/2. I mean I guess hes a weird kill spell? He survives literally nothing.
1. He's a pain the ass for control. He lets you continue beating for 4 after a verdict or fused far//away. He also lets you kill a jace when they try to +1 him without any blockers up, since it's essentially 3 damage unaccounted for.
2. He gives you an INSANE pressure option against the mirror once you can bestow him. The way bestow works, there's nothing an opponent can do to prevent boon satyr from either being a permanent pump or a creature in his own right.
3. He trades with everything other than the 4cmc fatties in most lists, which is just fine for a 3cmc dude. His P/T also encourages trades, which will further your gameplan if you are running Scavenging Ooze.
If I could run 8 smiters over 4 smiter/4 satyr I would, but he has his uses against every matchup other than aggro, and he's easier on the mana than reckoner.
1. He's a pain the ass for control. He lets you continue beating for 4 after a verdict or fused far//away. He also lets you kill a jace when they try to +1 him without any blockers up, since it's essentially 3 damage unaccounted for.
2. He gives you an INSANE pressure option against the mirror once you can bestow him. The way bestow works, there's nothing an opponent can do to prevent boon satyr from either being a permanent pump or a creature in his own right.
3. He trades with everything other than the 4cmc fatties in most lists, which is just fine for a 3cmc dude. His P/T also encourages trades, which will further your gameplan if you are running Scavenging Ooze.
If I could run 8 smiters over 4 smiter/4 satyr I would, but he has his uses against every matchup other than aggro, and he's easier on the mana than reckoner.
That last line is one of the main reasons Im playing him.
Reckoner is super harsh on the manabase of the aggro versions of naya where we rather have turn 1 mystic over turn 2 caryatid since turn 2 we rather boon/smiter/domri/fleecemane/VoR.
And like Razorgore said he is also really good against control. We do side him out against aggro, but I believe that to be fine.
can someone explain why boon satyr is good? I mean sweet he has flash? He's a 4/2. I mean I guess hes a weird kill spell? He survives literally nothing.
He lets you cheat on removal the way Ghor Clan does. Basically if you look at the timing of these decks other than Stormbreath you are building up to these stupid big ground stalls. The thing is you don't really want to build your mana base to fully support monstrous since you don't want to play that many lands. Boon Satyr allows you once again have the biggest threat on the board and trade, then still have a body.. That trades. You kind of ignore the 3 cost unless playing against removal heavy decks like Jund or Control. The removal heavy decks have no problem removing it but they also may have a hard time keeping up one for ones if you pressure every turn.
The thing is there is no real value in this format (maybe Voice, or Reckoner) so if everything just dies to Doom Blade so to speak and at the same time very little ways to just 20 the opponent not only does big on board matter this gives you a way to one for one with creatures. Look at Talroma's list.. where's the removal.. I have found the same sort of thing. Domri is pretty much nuts in this big on board situation and playing more creatures is huge.
I mean the removal high decks have the problem of vulnerability in their creatures too but they aren't as threat dense. It's amazing how much a 4/2 can do. The biggest issue is aggro as mentioned. The red decks are being built in such a way that you can never effectively block. The same reason we like Chandra works better for them. But I haven't played enough of the matchup to come to a complete conclusion on that. The tricky part is there is no hit all removal in white although maybe Pacifisms stocks gone up or even Chained. Otherwise it'd be easy to just to play a couple all purpose removal slots. The deck doesn't need much but I think on top of Domri about 2 is right. You want a couple point and kill spells just to allow you to set up Domri.
Mind you I'm playing Domri Jund instead of Naya so my perspectives a bit different. My early creatures probably hold a Boon Satyr even better given I have more Trample, Regeneration, and Haste creatures to carry early momentum without as much mana into them.
That last line is one of the main reasons Im playing him.
Reckoner is super harsh on the manabase of the aggro versions of naya where we rather have turn 1 mystic over turn 2 caryatid since turn 2 we rather boon/smiter/domri/fleecemane/VoR.
And like Razorgore said he is also really good against control. We do side him out against aggro, but I believe that to be fine.
Anything I we may have missed? I will post back later tonight with my results.
That direction for the deck looks pretty solid.
I'm not sold on skipping experiment one though, it's just such a solid beater and crucial I think for having that clock against control. 2 or 3 is a good number I think, you don't want to draw 2 during a game perhaps but overall it's pretty solid. Fleecemane lion should just be a 4-of really he is always good.
Overall I think you're too much on the topside and planeswalkers, it's tuned alright for control that way but against other aggro this is a bit problematic. Just a few less planeswalkers and a few lightning strike or magma jet main is what i'd suggest. RDW can race this deck quite often actually and being able to interact with firefist striker or chandra's phoenix early on is huge.
Chandra is not for this deck I think, ticking up to ultimate is pointless in this deck which makes her a little weaker. The 0 ability is also often just overcommitting into sweepers, she only costs tempo against control and without sufficient amount of burn the card advantage she provides can often just be moot as an active elspeth can easily outchurn an active chandra for example. She is fantastic in RDW where knocking blockers out of the way is huge and just drawing and burning out an opponent is very viable or even ultimating but here most of her abilities are often not nearly as good as they can be.
Which between magma jet and lightning strike i like more is hard, probably magma jet. It sets up domri very nicely, is straight up better than lightning strike against rdw and only really missed out fleecemane lion in the mirror compared to lightning strike.
Chandra has been fine. She won me my last game where I made my opp's ember swallower not be able to block and did lethal.
Her 0 has been pretty good for me. She allows me to keep pressure on my opps. She doesnt promote over extending espectially since I only play 1-3 creatures at all times against a verdict deck.
She isnt in the deck to ultimate. I never plan to ult her. Much like xenagos, I dont plan to ulti him. Both of their other abilities are amazing(his +1 helps manafix to hit dragon mana sometimes and has even helped with monstrosity)
Playtesting Results(playtesting more MUs tomorrow)
RDW
Pre-Board = 1-3
Post-Board = 4-4
So this isnt that great of a matchup. I will be looking at the sideboard for more help and possibly even the mainboard once again. I will go into that more later
Esper(didnt Finish)
Pre-Board = 1-1
Post-Board = 4-1
The current Sideboard is very good against them, that along with the amount of walkers I have in my list. In one turn after he played elspeth I played and made Monstrious a strombreath dragon thanks to xenagos.
UW Trading Post(Brad Nelson list)
Pre-Board = 5-0
Post-Board = 0-0
Pre board was hugely lopsided. Our card advanage out weighed theirs and he was playing from behind in every game. To me this deck feels like it can prey upon the true midranger decks but not these aggro/midrange hybrids like what I have here.
Cards on the chopping block
Mainboard:
2x Chandra - Its not that she isnt good, its that we isnt always good. I think 2x Magma Jet/2x Mizzium Mortars would possibly be better to help against RDW game 1. Likly would swap out chandras for Mizzium Mortars. Chandra was really helpful at keep a aetherling from blocking my creatures so that is a thing of note.
1x Boon Satyr - 4 feels like a bit too much. I believe I will cut 1 Boon Saytr for 1 Fleecemane Lion
1x Destructive Revelry - I usually only bring in two whenever I do bring this card in. It is likely fine as a 2-of in the board.
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed - Dont think we need this guy against control, although he may be a nail in the coffin. Against esper I didnt even bring him in so he is likely coming out asap
All the rest have preformed exactly like I thought. In place of that in the board we could maybe go fiendslayer paladin if the RDW matchup continues to be as terrible as it was.
EDIT: I also played in the ML trial, and got 2nd place only scooping to esper in the finals because I had to leave. I beat two RG decks, got a bye, and beat a UW control Deck
Started my own thread, but I learned members of the forum prefer me to post here... So this is my Naya Mid-range build.
I originally had boon satyrs but they really didn't pull their weight. Its very well rounded and has been play-testing well. Mana-curve is near-perfect with equal land distribution.
However, its not the fastest. Definitely Mid-range and I am open to any and all suggestions.
Started my own thread, but I learned members of the forum prefer me to post here... So this is my Naya Mid-range build.
I originally had boon satyrs but they really didn't pull their weight. Its very well rounded and has been play-testing well. Mana-curve is near-perfect with equal land distribution.
However, its not the fastest. Definitely Mid-range and I am open to any and all suggestions.
I would actually try Burning-Tree Emmissary and Scavenging Ooze in that list instead of stormbreath and voice of resurgence. You can drop the lightning strikes from the board and add the voices to the side. That would actually speed up your list by quite a bit, which will improve your RDW and control matchups.
In my experience, VoR is junk in the midrange mirror. Either your opponent finds a way to make the voice 2/2 body irrelevant, or it lands a reckoner/mortars and takes care of the token with efficiency.
This is the list I'm taking to states, finalized. It's very much a goodstuff.dec, rather than a true domri list, but the creature count is high enough to justify his presence, especially when so many midrange and control lists are very low on maindeck planeswalker answers.
I really can't stress enough how big of a deal Warleader's helix can be against the field. Such a powerful swing in board state, and often the difference between being able to go on offense or being stuck trying to out-topdeck your opponent for another turn.
I would actually try Burning-Tree Emmissary and Scavenging Ooze in that list instead of stormbreath and voice of resurgence. You can drop the lightning strikes from the board and add the voices to the side. That would actually speed up your list by quite a bit, which will improve your RDW and control matchups.
In my experience, VoR is junk in the midrange mirror. Either your opponent finds a way to make the voice 2/2 body irrelevant, or it lands a reckoner/mortars and takes care of the token with efficiency.
This is the list I'm taking to states, finalized. It's very much a goodstuff.dec, rather than a true domri list, but the creature count is high enough to justify his presence, especially when so many midrange and control lists are very low on maindeck planeswalker answers.
I really can't stress enough how big of a deal Warleader's helix can be against the field. Such a powerful swing in board state, and often the difference between being able to go on offense or being stuck trying to out-topdeck your opponent for another turn.
first questions because you are trying some stuff that I was interested in.
How has no manadorks been? Thought about testing without them but turn 2 domri/turn 3 xena/chandra is pretty strong against midrange/control.
Also how has world-eater been?
And that flames in the board seems really good against rdw. That may be the card that I need against them. Completely forgot bout that card.
Playtesting Results(playtesting more MUs tomorrow)
RDW
Pre-Board = 1-3
Post-Board = 4-4
So this isnt that great of a matchup. I will be looking at the sideboard for more help and possibly even the mainboard once again. I will go into that more later
Esper(didnt Finish)
Pre-Board = 1-1
Post-Board = 4-1
The current Sideboard is very good against them, that along with the amount of walkers I have in my list. In one turn after he played elspeth I played and made Monstrious a strombreath dragon thanks to xenagos.
UW Trading Post(Brad Nelson list)
Pre-Board = 5-0
Post-Board = 0-0
Pre board was hugely lopsided. Our card advanage out weighed theirs and he was playing from behind in every game. To me this deck feels like it can prey upon the true midranger decks but not these aggro/midrange hybrids like what I have here.
Cards on the chopping block
Mainboard:
2x Chandra - Its not that she isnt good, its that we isnt always good. I think 2x Magma Jet/2x Mizzium Mortars would possibly be better to help against RDW game 1. Likly would swap out chandras for Mizzium Mortars. Chandra was really helpful at keep a aetherling from blocking my creatures so that is a thing of note.
1x Boon Satyr - 4 feels like a bit too much. I believe I will cut 1 Boon Saytr for 1 Fleecemane Lion
1x Destructive Revelry - I usually only bring in two whenever I do bring this card in. It is likely fine as a 2-of in the board.
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed - Dont think we need this guy against control, although he may be a nail in the coffin. Against esper I didnt even bring him in so he is likely coming out asap
All the rest have preformed exactly like I thought. In place of that in the board we could maybe go fiendslayer paladin if the RDW matchup continues to be as terrible as it was.
EDIT: I also played in the ML trial, and got 2nd place only scooping to esper in the finals because I had to leave. I beat two RG decks, got a bye, and beat a UW control Deck
That's quite in line with what I expected from your list, planeswalker setup is good for control, not so much against aggro.
Magma jet is the card to play I think, mortars is just too much dead weight against control since blood baron is not so popular. Finishers tend to be elspeth and aetherling mostly occasionally desecration demon. Jet is just very versatile, sometimes great but never terrible.
Still curious why there aren't 2-3 experiment one though, opening up 1-drop is just very sweet.
In the sideboard glare of heresy, boros charm, mizzium mortars and courage are a must I feel. Overall there is not really much needed for control anymore because there is hardly anything I want to take out, problem with most board cards for control is that they are non-creature and don't improve the deck that much since.
Destructive revelry is nice but many times glare of heresy is the more versatile enchantment removal that I don't want more than 1.
Selesnya charm is mostly an answer for decks with demon or kalonian hydra which you're not always sure off so charm can at least do other things.
The rest is mostly for aggro, specifically RDW though. That matchup has by far the most cards I want to bring out (the planeswalkers, boon satyr and slow stuff like rampager and dragon) so about half the board comes in for that matchup. Might as well shore up those matchups while other cards are only marginal improvements in other matchups. Domri becomes weak if you bring in too much stuff anyway but against RDW i don't like domri in the first place.
Something good against R/G decks would be good though, an effective answer to opposing walkers that is still versatile for example. Preferrably creature form actually. Not sure yet if there is something good for that.
That's quite in line with what I expected from your list, planeswalker setup is good for control, not so much against aggro.
Magma jet is the card to play I think, mortars is just too much dead weight against control since blood baron is not so popular. Finishers tend to be elspeth and aetherling mostly occasionally desecration demon. Jet is just very versatile, sometimes great but never terrible.
Still curious why there aren't 2-3 experiment one though, opening up 1-drop is just very sweet.
In the sideboard glare of heresy, boros charm, mizzium mortars and courage are a must I feel. Overall there is not really much needed for control anymore because there is hardly anything I want to take out, problem with most board cards for control is that they are non-creature and don't improve the deck that much since.
Destructive revelry is nice but many times glare of heresy is the more versatile enchantment removal that I don't want more than 1.
Selesnya charm is mostly an answer for decks with demon or kalonian hydra which you're not always sure off so charm can at least do other things.
The rest is mostly for aggro, specifically RDW though. That matchup has by far the most cards I want to bring out (the planeswalkers, boon satyr and slow stuff like rampager and dragon) so about half the board comes in for that matchup. Might as well shore up those matchups while other cards are only marginal improvements in other matchups. Domri becomes weak if you bring in too much stuff anyway but against RDW i don't like domri in the first place.
Something good against R/G decks would be good though, an effective answer to opposing walkers that is still versatile for example. Preferrably creature form actually. Not sure yet if there is something good for that.
Yea I think my changes are going to be this for testing today if we test against rdw
Mainboard:
-1x Boon Satyr
+1x Fleecemane Lion(this guy is really sweet)
-2x Chandra
+2x Magma Jet
Sideboard I believe will change like this
-1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
-2x Destructive Revelry
+2x Flames of the firebrand
+1x Scavenging Ooze
I'd like to fit chandra in the board somewhere. Or possible just have like 10 cards in the board for the rdw matchup and just make the boon satyr/fleecemane change and just take the gamble on game 1.
first questions because you are trying some stuff that I was interested in.
How has no manadorks been? Thought about testing without them but turn 2 domri/turn 3 xena/chandra is pretty strong against midrange/control.
Also how has world-eater been?
And that flames in the board seems really good against rdw. That may be the card that I need against them. Completely forgot bout that card.
Never missed elvish mystic, because the manabase I'm using actually doesn't have a great percentage for an untapped green source for turn 1. More to the point, I absolutely HATE topdecking a manadork in this format, because nearly every game revolves around grinding 1-for-1's until someone lands a threat that can't be answered efficiently. I can't tell you how many mirrors against Jund, Junk, and Naya midrange lists were won because I could scry away dead cards while my opponents topdecked elvish mystics.
World-Eater is outstanding. having something that doesn't die to mortars is already quite solid, but his monstrous ability has actually been quite useful for dealing with problem dudes like young pyromancer and soldier of the pantheon. Legendary and lack of natural trample are downers, but still more appealing than ghor-clan simply because his body beats a smiter straight up.
Turn 2 domri is awesome, but to be honest, turn 2 fleecemane into turn 3 domri is JUST as scary to midrange and control. You turn an already dominant board state into something people can't recover from.
At this point, the only decks that are worrying me are Grixis Control and GW aggro, and only GW aggro looks to see significant play by the time states rolls around.
Never missed elvish mystic, because the manabase I'm using actually doesn't have a great percentage for an untapped green source for turn 1. More to the point, I absolutely HATE topdecking a manadork in this format, because nearly every game revolves around grinding 1-for-1's until someone lands a threat that can't be answered efficiently. I can't tell you how many mirrors against Jund, Junk, and Naya midrange lists were won because I could scry away dead cards while my opponents topdecked elvish mystics.
World-Eater is outstanding. having something that doesn't die to mortars is already quite solid, but his monstrous ability has actually been quite useful for dealing with problem dudes like young pyromancer and soldier of the pantheon. Legendary and lack of natural trample are downers, but still more appealing than ghor-clan simply because his body beats a smiter straight up.
Turn 2 domri is awesome, but to be honest, turn 2 fleecemane into turn 3 domri is JUST as scary to midrange and control. You turn an already dominant board state into something people can't recover from.
At this point, the only decks that are worrying me are Grixis Control and GW aggro, and only GW aggro looks to see significant play by the time states rolls around.
I havent found grixis to be too bad. I think I am 60% on the MU right now. ITs not easy but we can grind them out since they cant chain sphinx's like the UW/x control decks.
Havent actually played against GW yet oddly enough. Its in our gauntlet though so I will get to it eventually.
Ima think about no manadorks. but undervaluing Ghor-clan I think is wrong. He helps in so many situations and sometimes having a 4/4 with trample is just what the doctor ordered especially with the tricks we have in this deck via; Boon Satyr and Ghor-Clan.
World-eater does catch my attention though. But he may just be better in a RG deck where they can play the ramp game with ember swallowers and satyr hedronist.
Started my own thread, but I learned members of the forum prefer me to post here... So this is my Naya Mid-range build.
I originally had boon satyrs but they really didn't pull their weight. Its very well rounded and has been play-testing well. Mana-curve is near-perfect with equal land distribution.
However, its not the fastest. Definitely Mid-range and I am open to any and all suggestions.
I've been thinking alot about purphoros lately, and somone in the Big Red thread suggested using him with Domri... and it made me realize just how good he could be in this deck...
Think about it... a 4CMC card, that requires only 1 red mana, that deals two damage to the oppenent everytime a creature hits the board.
Despite if we hit his devotion or not (which we wont)... With domri helping us scry for creatures, and purph dealing 2 damage every time we play a creature.. i think we may have something here..
His buffing ability isnt bad either... The only issue is whether or not his worth replacing the stormbreath which, unless we could hit his devotion somehow... Hes not.
I've been thinking alot about purphoros lately, and somone in the Big Red thread suggested using him with Domri... and it made me realize just how good he could be in this deck...
Think about it... a 4CMC card, that requires only 1 red mana, that deals two damage to the oppenent everytime a creature hits the board.
Despite if we hit his devotion or not (which we wont)... With domri helping us scry for creatures, and purph dealing 2 damage every time we play a creature.. i think we may have something here..
His buffing ability isnt bad either... The only issue is whether or not his worth replacing the stormbreath which, unless we could hit his devotion somehow... Hes not.
But why are you running him? What matchup is he going to be good in?
I'd imagine him being good against control but in the list im running(9walkers.dec) I havent had a single problem with control. Match up is in my favor usually, especially post board. And I would think xenagos would have more synergy with phurphos than domri.
HI eveyone, ive noticed in a lot of lists in here and in the standard deck creation there isn't a lot of Archangel of Thune's or Khalonian Hydras in the 75 and i was curious why the 2 cards have fallen out of favor.
I understand why stormbreath dragon is preferred due to the other two but i was surprised to see the other two cards are hardly played.
Angel is really only solid when ooze is on the field, because he lets you put your team way out of combat trades, but it's already a slow way to win the mirror. Hydra suffers from mortars/selesnya charm problems, though he certainly has his place in a GW aggro list or a gruul midrange list.
But why are you running him? What matchup is he going to be good in?
I'd imagine him being good against control but in the list im running(9walkers.dec) I havent had a single problem with control. Match up is in my favor usually, especially post board. And I would think xenagos would have more synergy with purphoros than domri.
I haven't ran him yet because I'm having a hard time finding a good place for him. But i would imagine him to be great in this deck, if we had the devotion to support him.
As far as matchups are concerned, I see him being good against both control and midrange, but he is definitely not a replacement for stormbreath.
He's aggressive for green, a good combat trick, and plays well against countermagic.
We do have access to Smiter though. I'd say Boon Satyr is better in RG than here, but he's not bad here.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
1. He's a pain the ass for control. He lets you continue beating for 4 after a verdict or fused far//away. He also lets you kill a jace when they try to +1 him without any blockers up, since it's essentially 3 damage unaccounted for.
2. He gives you an INSANE pressure option against the mirror once you can bestow him. The way bestow works, there's nothing an opponent can do to prevent boon satyr from either being a permanent pump or a creature in his own right.
3. He trades with everything other than the 4cmc fatties in most lists, which is just fine for a 3cmc dude. His P/T also encourages trades, which will further your gameplan if you are running Scavenging Ooze.
If I could run 8 smiters over 4 smiter/4 satyr I would, but he has his uses against every matchup other than aggro, and he's easier on the mana than reckoner.
That last line is one of the main reasons Im playing him.
Reckoner is super harsh on the manabase of the aggro versions of naya where we rather have turn 1 mystic over turn 2 caryatid since turn 2 we rather boon/smiter/domri/fleecemane/VoR.
And like Razorgore said he is also really good against control. We do side him out against aggro, but I believe that to be fine.
This is the decklist I will testing today
4 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Grounds
4 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Boon Satyr
3 Fleecemane Lion
4 Voice of Resurengce
3 Xenagos, the Revealer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
This is the gauntlet we have set up that im testing against.
Gruul Midrange
RDW
GW Aggro
Esper
Grixis
Naya
Jund
Dega Midrange
GB Rock
Anything I we may have missed? I will post back later tonight with my results.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
He lets you cheat on removal the way Ghor Clan does. Basically if you look at the timing of these decks other than Stormbreath you are building up to these stupid big ground stalls. The thing is you don't really want to build your mana base to fully support monstrous since you don't want to play that many lands. Boon Satyr allows you once again have the biggest threat on the board and trade, then still have a body.. That trades. You kind of ignore the 3 cost unless playing against removal heavy decks like Jund or Control. The removal heavy decks have no problem removing it but they also may have a hard time keeping up one for ones if you pressure every turn.
The thing is there is no real value in this format (maybe Voice, or Reckoner) so if everything just dies to Doom Blade so to speak and at the same time very little ways to just 20 the opponent not only does big on board matter this gives you a way to one for one with creatures. Look at Talroma's list.. where's the removal.. I have found the same sort of thing. Domri is pretty much nuts in this big on board situation and playing more creatures is huge.
I mean the removal high decks have the problem of vulnerability in their creatures too but they aren't as threat dense. It's amazing how much a 4/2 can do. The biggest issue is aggro as mentioned. The red decks are being built in such a way that you can never effectively block. The same reason we like Chandra works better for them. But I haven't played enough of the matchup to come to a complete conclusion on that. The tricky part is there is no hit all removal in white although maybe Pacifisms stocks gone up or even Chained. Otherwise it'd be easy to just to play a couple all purpose removal slots. The deck doesn't need much but I think on top of Domri about 2 is right. You want a couple point and kill spells just to allow you to set up Domri.
Mind you I'm playing Domri Jund instead of Naya so my perspectives a bit different. My early creatures probably hold a Boon Satyr even better given I have more Trample, Regeneration, and Haste creatures to carry early momentum without as much mana into them.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
That direction for the deck looks pretty solid.
I'm not sold on skipping experiment one though, it's just such a solid beater and crucial I think for having that clock against control. 2 or 3 is a good number I think, you don't want to draw 2 during a game perhaps but overall it's pretty solid. Fleecemane lion should just be a 4-of really he is always good.
Overall I think you're too much on the topside and planeswalkers, it's tuned alright for control that way but against other aggro this is a bit problematic. Just a few less planeswalkers and a few lightning strike or magma jet main is what i'd suggest. RDW can race this deck quite often actually and being able to interact with firefist striker or chandra's phoenix early on is huge.
Chandra is not for this deck I think, ticking up to ultimate is pointless in this deck which makes her a little weaker. The 0 ability is also often just overcommitting into sweepers, she only costs tempo against control and without sufficient amount of burn the card advantage she provides can often just be moot as an active elspeth can easily outchurn an active chandra for example. She is fantastic in RDW where knocking blockers out of the way is huge and just drawing and burning out an opponent is very viable or even ultimating but here most of her abilities are often not nearly as good as they can be.
Which between magma jet and lightning strike i like more is hard, probably magma jet. It sets up domri very nicely, is straight up better than lightning strike against rdw and only really missed out fleecemane lion in the mirror compared to lightning strike.
Her 0 has been pretty good for me. She allows me to keep pressure on my opps. She doesnt promote over extending espectially since I only play 1-3 creatures at all times against a verdict deck.
She isnt in the deck to ultimate. I never plan to ult her. Much like xenagos, I dont plan to ulti him. Both of their other abilities are amazing(his +1 helps manafix to hit dragon mana sometimes and has even helped with monstrosity)
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
2 Forest
4 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Fleecemane Lion
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Selesnya Charm
Planeswalker
4 Domri Rade
Just my take on the deck.
RDW
Pre-Board = 1-3
Post-Board = 4-4
So this isnt that great of a matchup. I will be looking at the sideboard for more help and possibly even the mainboard once again. I will go into that more later
Esper(didnt Finish)
Pre-Board = 1-1
Post-Board = 4-1
The current Sideboard is very good against them, that along with the amount of walkers I have in my list. In one turn after he played elspeth I played and made Monstrious a strombreath dragon thanks to xenagos.
UW Trading Post(Brad Nelson list)
Pre-Board = 5-0
Post-Board = 0-0
Pre board was hugely lopsided. Our card advanage out weighed theirs and he was playing from behind in every game. To me this deck feels like it can prey upon the true midranger decks but not these aggro/midrange hybrids like what I have here.
Cards on the chopping block
Mainboard:
2x Chandra - Its not that she isnt good, its that we isnt always good. I think 2x Magma Jet/2x Mizzium Mortars would possibly be better to help against RDW game 1. Likly would swap out chandras for Mizzium Mortars. Chandra was really helpful at keep a aetherling from blocking my creatures so that is a thing of note.
1x Boon Satyr - 4 feels like a bit too much. I believe I will cut 1 Boon Saytr for 1 Fleecemane Lion
Sideboard:
Current Sideboard
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Glare of Heresy
1x Destructive Revelry - I usually only bring in two whenever I do bring this card in. It is likely fine as a 2-of in the board.
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed - Dont think we need this guy against control, although he may be a nail in the coffin. Against esper I didnt even bring him in so he is likely coming out asap
All the rest have preformed exactly like I thought. In place of that in the board we could maybe go fiendslayer paladin if the RDW matchup continues to be as terrible as it was.
EDIT: I also played in the ML trial, and got 2nd place only scooping to esper in the finals because I had to leave. I beat two RG decks, got a bye, and beat a UW control Deck
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I originally had boon satyrs but they really didn't pull their weight. Its very well rounded and has been play-testing well. Mana-curve is near-perfect with equal land distribution.
However, its not the fastest. Definitely Mid-range and I am open to any and all suggestions.
4x Experiment One
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Loxodon Smiter
Other
3x Domri Rade
4x Mizzium Mortars
5x Forest
4x Plains
3x Mountain
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple Garden
3x Boros Charm
4x Chained to the Rocks
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
I would actually try Burning-Tree Emmissary and Scavenging Ooze in that list instead of stormbreath and voice of resurgence. You can drop the lightning strikes from the board and add the voices to the side. That would actually speed up your list by quite a bit, which will improve your RDW and control matchups.
In my experience, VoR is junk in the midrange mirror. Either your opponent finds a way to make the voice 2/2 body irrelevant, or it lands a reckoner/mortars and takes care of the token with efficiency.
This is the list I'm taking to states, finalized. It's very much a goodstuff.dec, rather than a true domri list, but the creature count is high enough to justify his presence, especially when so many midrange and control lists are very low on maindeck planeswalker answers.
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Boon Satyr
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Triumph
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Selesnya Charm
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Warleader's Helix
3 Domri Rade
1 Unflinching Courage
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Boros Charm
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Burning Earth
I really can't stress enough how big of a deal Warleader's helix can be against the field. Such a powerful swing in board state, and often the difference between being able to go on offense or being stuck trying to out-topdeck your opponent for another turn.
Hence the addition of ooze. It's also not a bad play with mortars or magma jet.
first questions because you are trying some stuff that I was interested in.
How has no manadorks been? Thought about testing without them but turn 2 domri/turn 3 xena/chandra is pretty strong against midrange/control.
Also how has world-eater been?
And that flames in the board seems really good against rdw. That may be the card that I need against them. Completely forgot bout that card.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
That's quite in line with what I expected from your list, planeswalker setup is good for control, not so much against aggro.
Magma jet is the card to play I think, mortars is just too much dead weight against control since blood baron is not so popular. Finishers tend to be elspeth and aetherling mostly occasionally desecration demon. Jet is just very versatile, sometimes great but never terrible.
Still curious why there aren't 2-3 experiment one though, opening up 1-drop is just very sweet.
This is my what I like now:
3 Boon Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Fleecemane Lion
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Experiment One
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Temple Garden
4 Forest
3 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Triumph
1 Mountain
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Magma Jet
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Boros Charm
3 Warleader's Helix
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Selesnya Charm
In the sideboard glare of heresy, boros charm, mizzium mortars and courage are a must I feel. Overall there is not really much needed for control anymore because there is hardly anything I want to take out, problem with most board cards for control is that they are non-creature and don't improve the deck that much since.
Destructive revelry is nice but many times glare of heresy is the more versatile enchantment removal that I don't want more than 1.
Selesnya charm is mostly an answer for decks with demon or kalonian hydra which you're not always sure off so charm can at least do other things.
The rest is mostly for aggro, specifically RDW though. That matchup has by far the most cards I want to bring out (the planeswalkers, boon satyr and slow stuff like rampager and dragon) so about half the board comes in for that matchup. Might as well shore up those matchups while other cards are only marginal improvements in other matchups. Domri becomes weak if you bring in too much stuff anyway but against RDW i don't like domri in the first place.
Something good against R/G decks would be good though, an effective answer to opposing walkers that is still versatile for example. Preferrably creature form actually. Not sure yet if there is something good for that.
Yea I think my changes are going to be this for testing today if we test against rdw
Mainboard:
-1x Boon Satyr
+1x Fleecemane Lion(this guy is really sweet)
-2x Chandra
+2x Magma Jet
Sideboard I believe will change like this
-1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
-2x Destructive Revelry
+2x Flames of the firebrand
+1x Scavenging Ooze
I'd like to fit chandra in the board somewhere. Or possible just have like 10 cards in the board for the rdw matchup and just make the boon satyr/fleecemane change and just take the gamble on game 1.
I will def playtest the MU more tonight.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Never missed elvish mystic, because the manabase I'm using actually doesn't have a great percentage for an untapped green source for turn 1. More to the point, I absolutely HATE topdecking a manadork in this format, because nearly every game revolves around grinding 1-for-1's until someone lands a threat that can't be answered efficiently. I can't tell you how many mirrors against Jund, Junk, and Naya midrange lists were won because I could scry away dead cards while my opponents topdecked elvish mystics.
World-Eater is outstanding. having something that doesn't die to mortars is already quite solid, but his monstrous ability has actually been quite useful for dealing with problem dudes like young pyromancer and soldier of the pantheon. Legendary and lack of natural trample are downers, but still more appealing than ghor-clan simply because his body beats a smiter straight up.
Turn 2 domri is awesome, but to be honest, turn 2 fleecemane into turn 3 domri is JUST as scary to midrange and control. You turn an already dominant board state into something people can't recover from.
At this point, the only decks that are worrying me are Grixis Control and GW aggro, and only GW aggro looks to see significant play by the time states rolls around.
I havent found grixis to be too bad. I think I am 60% on the MU right now. ITs not easy but we can grind them out since they cant chain sphinx's like the UW/x control decks.
Havent actually played against GW yet oddly enough. Its in our gauntlet though so I will get to it eventually.
Ima think about no manadorks. but undervaluing Ghor-clan I think is wrong. He helps in so many situations and sometimes having a 4/4 with trample is just what the doctor ordered especially with the tricks we have in this deck via; Boon Satyr and Ghor-Clan.
World-eater does catch my attention though. But he may just be better in a RG deck where they can play the ramp game with ember swallowers and satyr hedronist.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I've been thinking alot about purphoros lately, and somone in the Big Red thread suggested using him with Domri... and it made me realize just how good he could be in this deck...
Think about it... a 4CMC card, that requires only 1 red mana, that deals two damage to the oppenent everytime a creature hits the board.
Despite if we hit his devotion or not (which we wont)... With domri helping us scry for creatures, and purph dealing 2 damage every time we play a creature.. i think we may have something here..
His buffing ability isnt bad either... The only issue is whether or not his worth replacing the stormbreath which, unless we could hit his devotion somehow... Hes not.
But why are you running him? What matchup is he going to be good in?
I'd imagine him being good against control but in the list im running(9walkers.dec) I havent had a single problem with control. Match up is in my favor usually, especially post board. And I would think xenagos would have more synergy with phurphos than domri.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I understand why stormbreath dragon is preferred due to the other two but i was surprised to see the other two cards are hardly played.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
I haven't ran him yet because I'm having a hard time finding a good place for him. But i would imagine him to be great in this deck, if we had the devotion to support him.
As far as matchups are concerned, I see him being good against both control and midrange, but he is definitely not a replacement for stormbreath.
Why not VoR? There is really nothing out there that can replace him for what he does.