This is an archetype that hasn't seen much hype lately, but is very well-positioned to be a real contender in the metagame.
Basically the deck revolves around several heroic cards and their interactions with cards that trigger heroic and provide powerful defensive and offensive effects.
The heroes:
Phalanx Leader:
This guy makes all of your guys big... fast.
Fabled Hero:
When coupled with stuff like aqueous form and gods willing, this guy just ends games. This deck has a lot of ways to both protect this guy as well as make him unblockable.
Artisan of Forms:
This is probably the most versatile card in the deck. Generally he's there to be a multiple of phalanx leader or fabled hero, but he's also very good at being a desecration demon, boros reckoner, blood baron, etc. from your opponent's side of the board.
The enablers:
There are obviously other cards that work very well with this strategy, but I feel that these are the most powerful.
Hidden Strings:
This card allows you to push through damage as well as giving you multiple heroic triggers. Generally, the idea is to play it pre combat, tapping down your opponent's creatures or lands, then when you deal damage, you target your heroic creatures and untap them, distributing +1 counters everywhere, dealing a bunch of damage, and having pseudo vigilance.
Bioshift:
This card is pure insanity here. Although it requires some pretty decent combat math. It's interesting to note that when you target phalanx leader or fabled hero with bioshift, they get counters before the spell actually resolves, letting your move things around at will.
God's Willing:
This is probably the more versatile card in the deck. Protects your creatures from spot removal, pushes damage through a board stall, scry's etc.
Other cards that can be included: Triton tactics: This card is very good against aggressive strategies like mono red and mono blue, however it falls short against most controlling strategies.
Ethereal armor/hopeful eidolon: This can be a very powerful combo to put into the deck, but with so much black spot removal running around right now I decided it just wasn't worth it.
battlewise hoplite: it scry's, it grows. It does what you're looking to do in this type of deck. Probably a replacement for fencing ace.
Also, it's worth exploring the green options, although I feel like UW offers the best deck and I don't want to try to run a 3 color aggro deck these days. I'm still going to post the intriguing options that green brings to the table:
mending touch: basically more god's willing. It doesn't allow your creature to actually attack through blockers, but it's much better against supreme verdict.
mutant's prey: This is actually very effective removal in this deck against decks with smaller creatures.
ranger's guile: This is basically a better version of mizzium skin. Not really that important, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
warrior's lesson: this would be the real reason to run green. 2 heroic triggers on one card along with a great card drawing spell.
kalonian hydra: Probably too expensive for what the deck wants, but the timmy in me says "do want".
wild beastmaster: this guy next to phalanx leader or with a timely bioshift seems pretty insane.
Why Fencing Ace over Battlewise Hoplite? Double Strike is good and everything, but I feel like something that grows fast and lets you scry more or less on command is a lot more useful in a deck that relies on good draws.
Why Fencing Ace over Battlewise Hoplite? Double Strike is good and everything, but I feel like something that grows fast and lets you scry more or less on command is a lot more useful in a deck that relies on good draws.
that's pretty fair. I do like the explosiveness that fencing ace provides though. he is pretty inconsistent without a card like bioshift or phalanx leader to back him up though.
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This is what I'm running right now. I'll probably try splashing green eventually for Ranger's Guile, Giant Growth, Warriors' Lesson and maybe even Alpha Authority to go with Ethereal Armor/Aqueous Form, but I'm not sure yet. I want to play more with the two color list before I think about splashing a third.
Dauntless Onslaught? Good combat trick (akin to s-charm's first mode for 2 creatures) that sets off two heroic triggers. Also Battlewise Valor for similar effect for 1 less cost and the ability to scry 1.
Brave the Elements. With Heroic, probably good only as SB tech, but useful vs. wipe/removal heavy decks while establishing your board presence.
Archangel of Thune. Plays well with the bioshift idea, has lifegain, evasive flyer. Perhaps a bit high on the curve for the deck, maybe 2-of.
Not sure about Artisan of Forms. Feels like it could be a nice cheap Clone, but really relies on having a good card to target for copy. Still worth considering in your decklist, but 4 of may be a bit much, maybe 2 or 3 of.
This is what I'm running right now. I'll probably try splashing green eventually for Ranger's Guile, Giant Growth, Warriors' Lesson and maybe even Alpha Authority to go with Ethereal Armor/Aqueous Form, but I'm not sure yet. I want to play more with the two color list before I think about splashing a third.
I like it, but I think maxxing out on your prominent threats like fabled hero is in the deck's best interests. I also think that gridlock is too expensive for the deck.
I think I like aqueous form more than triton tactics in the main. The unblockable and scry on attacks is more important than the second heroic activation IMO.
I like judge's familiar in the MD. I also like the thought of bident of thassa. We need gas to follow up with should the opponent kill the creatures we put out and running creatures like the owl both help apply pressure while also protecting our main threats.
Dauntless Onslaught? Good combat trick (akin to s-charm's first mode for 2 creatures) that sets off two heroic triggers. Also Battlewise Valor for similar effect for 1 less cost and the ability to scry 1.
Brave the Elements. With Heroic, probably good only as SB tech, but useful vs. wipe/removal heavy decks while establishing your board presence.
Archangel of Thune. Plays well with the bioshift idea, has lifegain, evasive flyer. Perhaps a bit high on the curve for the deck, maybe 2-of.
Not sure about Artisan of Forms. Feels like it could be a nice cheap Clone, but really relies on having a good card to target for copy. Still worth considering in your decklist, but 4 of may be a bit much, maybe 2 or 3 of.
artisan started out as a 2-of, but I found that it was easily one of the best cards in the deck. Being able to clone an opponent's fatty or simply clone one of your more prominent threats like phalanx leader or fabled hero is pretty powerful. I think it really depends on the number of enablers your deck is running. The fewer enablers, the less value you can expect to get out of artisan.
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I like that Artisan of Forms acts like a delayed-trigger Clone, I can see it catching someone off guard. Another card I would recommend to keep low on the curve might also be Ajani to fuel your counters, and once you have transformed your weenies into fatties (or copied an opposing fatty with Artisan), launch them in the air with double strike (if they don't already have it).
Bioshift seems like a fantastic example of a do-nothing card. So you moved some counters... your overall power/toughness of the board has changed by nothing. Being able to target two things is cool and all, but I feel like you'd be better off using Triton Tactics to get the christmasland 2-for-1 during combat, or just using Warrior's Lesson to draw two cards. Those both gives actual effects besides trigger heroic. Bioshift is just horrible, and is the closest to a do-nothing card as you can get.
Why would I want to use this deck over a more established aggro deck, like GW or Mono-Blue Devotion? Is it more resilient? Explosive? Consistent? Is it well-positioned in the metagame? What are the matchups like? Why would I want to take this deck to a tournament over another archetype? Sell me on this deck. Make me want to grind with it at FNM, or bring it to an open. Otherwise it doesn't belong in the competitive sub.
Bioshift seems like a fantastic example of a do-nothing card. So you moved some counters... your overall power/toughness of the board has changed by nothing. Being able to target two things is cool and all, but I feel like you'd be better off using Triton Tactics to get the christmasland 2-for-1 during combat, or just using Warrior's Lesson to draw two cards. Those both gives actual effects besides trigger heroic. Bioshift is just horrible, and is the closest to a do-nothing card as you can get.
Why would I want to use this deck over a more established aggro deck, like GW or Mono-Blue Devotion? Is it more resilient? Explosive? Consistent? Is it well-positioned in the metagame? What are the matchups like? Why would I want to take this deck to a tournament over another archetype? Sell me on this deck. Make me want to grind with it at FNM, or bring it to an open. Otherwise it doesn't belong in the competitive sub.
you obviously haven't even tried the deck much less played with bioshift in it. Bioshift has been a complete blowout in just about every game I've played it in.
I'm not here to try and sell this deck to anyone, just to create a discussion on a deck that I think can be very good and hear the thoughts of others that might think the same. It's already generating some hype among several pros, even though you probably don't know about that yet. People just haven't found the right shell for it yet.
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I actually really like the take on heroic.dec that novajoe has posted here, he has some insightful design in this deck.
For starters, because bioshift targets two creatures, it triggers two sets of heroic, and it moves the counters on the target after the heroic trigger has resolved, and it does this for only one mana at instant speed. I dare to say that Novajoe discovered a staple for any deck running heroic mechanics. Good work Novajoe!
I think the Artisan of Forms along with Phalanx Leader sounds pretty potent if you can get it online, obviously the trouble will be spot removal as you start to get the deck online. I am glad you are already using God's Willing to counteract that.
I might suggest reviewing the Gatecrash counter cards in the u/g field to see if you can come up with any more interactions worth playtesting with.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
Up front, I will say I haven't tried the deck, and more specifically, I haven't tried bioshift.
That said, it does look like a pretty solid enabler yes. Though I think Kahmos might be overselling it by calling it a staple. I do think I would like to build and try this deck, or at least some form of a variant of it.
All that said, if we're aggro in blue, why no cloudfin raptor? In my personal opinion, he is better in this deck than soldier of the pantheon. He has a more solid bit of evasion (flying VS pro multicolored), a bigger butt, and potential bigger frontend. Though, in the interest of covering all avenues, unless a hallowed fountain hits the board, he doesn't work as well with curving into a T2 phalanx leader I suppose.
Have we considered Take (Give/Take) as a draw engine. I know it will make one of our guys weeker, but it can fill your hand at the end of your turn with the number of counters most of our guys will have and for only 3 mana. Personally I am running a singleton in the main, just for late game fuel.
B/u offers native scry lands and draw/reach through Duskmantle. Boon offers protection and what I lose in power I gain in removal. SB might look odd: I fear Precinct Captain a lot more than you guys and I'm kinda surprised he doesn't appear in more lists. Illness is also good against tokens, which kinda wreck me. Hidden Strings is experimental tech against control: imagine turn 4 where your opponent is holding mana for counterspells. Cast Strings on their lands and prevent their counterspells, then you strike with your guys and get your mana back; cast your spells with impunity!
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Bringing Turbo-Hydra back to Standard...
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
Have we considered Take (Give/Take) as a draw engine. I know it will make one of our guys weeker, but it can fill your hand at the end of your turn with the number of counters most of our guys will have and for only 3 mana. Personally I am running a singleton in the main, just for late game fuel.
I think Take might be a little bit slower of a card for what this deck is trying to do. However, ignoring that aspect, it is a pretty baller card. It triggers the heroic before resolving. So, that makes it kinda somewhat useful.
Now, as for cloudfin raptor I mentioned earlier... I tried using it over soldier of Pantheon, and it was giving me pretty good results. Hidden Strings ciphered onto him gave so much mileage. I goldfished this deck against Colossal Gruul, and would have won if not for a very lucky string of events on Gruul's side (got it down to 0, but it was able to scavenging ooze a creature back up to one... then it topdecked a Domri rade to kill my [cardcloudfin raptor[/card]
i don't mind cloudfin raptor at all. The only problem that might come up with it in a list like mine is that you only run 20 creatures or so, so you might get stuck in a couple of situations where you don't have many things to evolve it. Still, soldier of the pantheon has his downsides and cloudfin has natural evasion which I like. I think the biggest downside here is that the deck is generally trying to be a white deck with a splash of blue. cloudfin might end up being too hard on the mana.
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B/u offers native scry lands and draw/reach through Duskmantle. Boon offers protection and what I lose in power I gain in removal. SB might look odd: I fear Precinct Captain a lot more than you guys and I'm kinda surprised he doesn't appear in more lists. Illness is also good against tokens, which kinda wreck me. Hidden Strings is experimental tech against control: imagine turn 4 where your opponent is holding mana for counterspells. Cast Strings on their lands and prevent their counterspells, then you strike with your guys and get your mana back; cast your spells with impunity!
I REALLY like what black has to offer here, but I think that white should be the primary core of the deck. Fabled hero and phalanx leader are simply too strong to ignore.
that said, agent of fate is a very powerful effect, and I wouldn't mind trying to make some kind of WB heroic deck if I can manage to make that kind of curve work. Going WW for phalanx leader into BB or WW for agent or hero sounds like a nightmare for aggro decks these days.
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Considering the cost of the card Give // Take, a one of seems appropriate, and I like it.
I see it as a way to refill the tank for the long game, kind of like this decks Sphinx's (though a lot less useful). Though, thinking about it we are on color for a single Sphinx or two.
Wasn't sure if I should post here or in the W/x Heroic thread, but I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm running a Boros list currently and have a great record; just won my 5th 8-man in a row since finishing my build 2 days ago.
The deck is incredibly explosive, with a surprising amount of mid-game potential with all the scry packed in. I was originally running W/U, with Battlewise Hoplite (a great card in heroic), Mizzium Skins and more value from Brave the Elements. However I changed it to W/R for better mana and more ways to just "get there", as opposed to more tempo cards.
For others looking to run a Heroic deck, I can't stress how important it is to run a large amount of 1-drops, a low land count and ZERO 3-drops. This deck wants to kill a quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible. This also means playing around wraths, removal etc. (even with Gods Willing). the problem I've found with cards above 2cmc is that not only do we not WANT to draw 3 lands until turn 5, maybe 6 or so (if we ever even need to), but we'd also want to play our 3 cmc heroic creatures as 4-drops most of the time anyway, to capitalize on their abilities as well as protect them. I've also tested with B/W heroic, with Boon of Erebos, Thoughtseize, Orzhov Charm, and Agent of the Fates...and Agent, at least, simple does not work.
With that said, so far there aren't many changes I would make to my Boros list. The 1-drop slot is fixed as far as creatures go imo (the hawks/familiars are there just for their evasion, and running a higher creature count than my original 16 makes my opponent's TS less back breaking on t1). The Dragon Mantles, amusingly, do literally everything I want from a card; they cantrip for 1 mana, the pump Etheral Armor for 1 mana, the trigger Heroic for 1 mana, AND provide a damage boost with Firebreathing that doesn't force me to overextend. I'm still not sure if I want 4 or not, I'll probably end up cutting 1 for a 4th Madcap Skill in the main, but for now it's been working fine.
Another funny card I'm running is Hopeful Eidolon, but this card is a HOUSE. Since I'm running Ethereal Armor, the fact that Eidolon himself is an enchantment is key. It mean that t1 Eidolon, t2 Ethereal armor (if you're fighting aggro, otherwise you'd want to start with a different 1-drop) gives you a 3/3 first strike lifelinker immediately. Even just playing him when you have another creature with Ethereal Armor gives a damage boost! And of course, he bestows for 4 mana (the cheapest bestow cost), pumping Armor, granting lifelink, and triggering Heroic. I highly recommend playing both him and Ethereal Armor in any W/x version.
My SB is still a work in progress, but I know I'm keeping the Skullcracks and the Pacifisms at the very least. Pretty much everything else there could be changed.
Hopefully this deck list inspires some people; let me know what you think!
I see it as a way to refill the tank for the long game, kind of like this decks Sphinx's (though a lot less useful). Though, thinking about it we are on color for a single Sphinx or two.
These decks can barely hit 3 mana on curve yet you want to add in a rev?
Wasn't sure if I should post here or in the W/x Heroic thread, but I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm running a Boros list currently and have a great record; just won my 5th 8-man in a row since finishing my build 2 days ago.
The deck is incredibly explosive, with a surprising amount of mid-game potential with all the scry packed in. I was originally running W/U, with Battlewise Hoplite (a great card in heroic), Mizzium Skins and more value from Brave the Elements. However I changed it to W/R for better mana and more ways to just "get there", as opposed to more tempo cards.
For others looking to run a Heroic deck, I can't stress how important it is to run a large amount of 1-drops, a low land count and ZERO 3-drops. This deck wants to kill a quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible. This also means playing around wraths, removal etc. (even with Gods Willing). the problem I've found with cards above 2cmc is that not only do we not WANT to draw 3 lands until turn 5, maybe 6 or so (if we ever even need to), but we'd also want to play our 3 cmc heroic creatures as 4-drops most of the time anyway, to capitalize on their abilities as well as protect them. I've also tested with B/W heroic, with Boon of Erebos, Thoughtseize, Orzhov Charm, and Agent of the Fates...and Agent, at least, simple does not work.
With that said, so far there aren't many changes I would make to my Boros list. The 1-drop slot is fixed as far as creatures go imo (the hawks/familiars are there just for their evasion, and running a higher creature count than my original 16 makes my opponent's TS less back breaking on t1). The Dragon Mantles, amusingly, do literally everything I want from a card; they cantrip for 1 mana, the pump Etheral Armor for 1 mana, the trigger Heroic for 1 mana, AND provide a damage boost with Firebreathing that doesn't force me to overextend. I'm still not sure if I want 4 or not, I'll probably end up cutting 1 for a 4th Madcap Skill in the main, but for now it's been working fine.
Another funny card I'm running is Hopeful Eidolon, but this card is a HOUSE. Since I'm running Ethereal Armor, the fact that Eidolon himself is an enchantment is key. It mean that t1 Eidolon, t2 Ethereal armor (if you're fighting aggro, otherwise you'd want to start with a different 1-drop) gives you a 3/3 first strike lifelinker immediately. Even just playing him when you have another creature with Ethereal Armor gives a damage boost! And of course, he bestows for 4 mana (the cheapest bestow cost), pumping Armor, granting lifelink, and triggering Heroic. I highly recommend playing both him and Ethereal Armor in any W/x version.
My SB is still a work in progress, but I know I'm keeping the Skullcracks and the Pacifisms at the very least. Pretty much everything else there could be changed.
Hopefully this deck list inspires some people; let me know what you think!
I actually like that someone shares my opinion on avoiding 3-drops. Everyone loves Fabled Hero, but I think between the 1WW casting cost and the fact that him having double strike doesn't really mean anything until a few turns after he's down makes him much too slow for this sort of deck. Every time I've playtested with him he's been dead weight. I'm definitely of the mind that Heroic decks need to fit within the weenie archetype - something that typically wants to avoid 3-drops.
That being said, what do you make of Phalanx Leader? I'm reserving my opinion until I play with him more, but so far I've noticed his casting cost can be fairly oppressive in 2-color decks. I'm still debating whether or not I want him in my deck, especially over cards like Battlewise Hoplite and Artisan of Forms. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Bident of Thassa and Spear of Heliod were also considerations, as they both make Ethereal Armor bigger, and they both give you some options/make your dudes scarier, but I'm not sure about them yet.
Also, I figured I might as well post my updated decklist. I'm running UW over WR (Aqueous Form and Hidden Strings really sold me on it), but I'd still like to know your opinion.
I personally would never play Phalanx Leader. His team pump is strong, but he is hard to cast, and I find that we generally don't want to over commit our creatures to the board anyway. Battlewise Hoplite is amazing, he's an easier to cast Phalanx Leader that scrys, and the scry is huge.
I started as U/W, and my deck was very similar to yours except no Hidden Strings, and more protection spells. I like W/R much better because it's even more aggressive, and mainly it has access to more pump spells (Titan's Grip, Dragon Mantle, Charm and Madcap Skills, which doubles as a way to push damage through blockers). The mana is also better in Boros. I miss Battlewise Hoplite and Aqueous Form, which are both great cards for the deck, as you know - But I still have a decent amount of scry, and I prefer the burst and consistency that W/R offers.
If you're going U/W though, I'd probably take the Hidden Strings out and replace them with Hands of Binding in the SB. I like Strings, and it can lead to fairly degenerate starts and Heroic Triggers, but I feel it would mostly just tap down blockers, which Hands does better. That's my opinion though, maybe the trade off is worth it, I dunno.
Another couple things I forgot: First, take out Bioshift. Never play it. If you want a card that gets value when they try to kill something, or as a trick, play Rapid Hybridization; it doubles as a kill spell too. And I like Artisan of Forms, I just don't think he does enough for an aggressive deck. You'll never want to target him with something for his trigger over someone else's.
Sorry if that sounded kinda stingy, I assure you it wasn't meant that way. I like where your headed. I think W/U and W/R are the 2 best ways to go personally, I'd be interested to see how your version works out.
I'm playing in a Premier Standard event right now, sadly I'm 1-1 so far Beat Naya aggro/midrange, lost narrowly to Orzhov midrange, mainly because I mulled g2 when I didn't really need to. I'll provide updates as I go!
For the WR version, why not Chained to the Rocks instead of Pacifism? Same bonus to Ethereal Armor, cheaper spell, and exiled instead of just can't attack or block.
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Legacy: WRDeath and Taxes UWRMiracles UBTezzerator GTrinity GBWRLoam URLandstill
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Wasn't sure if I should post here or in the W/x Heroic thread, but I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm running a Boros list currently and have a great record; just won my 5th 8-man in a row since finishing my build 2 days ago.
The deck is incredibly explosive, with a surprising amount of mid-game potential with all the scry packed in. I was originally running W/U, with Battlewise Hoplite (a great card in heroic), Mizzium Skins and more value from Brave the Elements. However I changed it to W/R for better mana and more ways to just "get there", as opposed to more tempo cards.
For others looking to run a Heroic deck, I can't stress how important it is to run a large amount of 1-drops, a low land count and ZERO 3-drops. This deck wants to kill a quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible. This also means playing around wraths, removal etc. (even with Gods Willing). the problem I've found with cards above 2cmc is that not only do we not WANT to draw 3 lands until turn 5, maybe 6 or so (if we ever even need to), but we'd also want to play our 3 cmc heroic creatures as 4-drops most of the time anyway, to capitalize on their abilities as well as protect them. I've also tested with B/W heroic, with Boon of Erebos, Thoughtseize, Orzhov Charm, and Agent of the Fates...and Agent, at least, simple does not work.
With that said, so far there aren't many changes I would make to my Boros list. The 1-drop slot is fixed as far as creatures go imo (the hawks/familiars are there just for their evasion, and running a higher creature count than my original 16 makes my opponent's TS less back breaking on t1). The Dragon Mantles, amusingly, do literally everything I want from a card; they cantrip for 1 mana, the pump Etheral Armor for 1 mana, the trigger Heroic for 1 mana, AND provide a damage boost with Firebreathing that doesn't force me to overextend. I'm still not sure if I want 4 or not, I'll probably end up cutting 1 for a 4th Madcap Skill in the main, but for now it's been working fine.
Another funny card I'm running is Hopeful Eidolon, but this card is a HOUSE. Since I'm running Ethereal Armor, the fact that Eidolon himself is an enchantment is key. It mean that t1 Eidolon, t2 Ethereal armor (if you're fighting aggro, otherwise you'd want to start with a different 1-drop) gives you a 3/3 first strike lifelinker immediately. Even just playing him when you have another creature with Ethereal Armor gives a damage boost! And of course, he bestows for 4 mana (the cheapest bestow cost), pumping Armor, granting lifelink, and triggering Heroic. I highly recommend playing both him and Ethereal Armor in any W/x version.
My SB is still a work in progress, but I know I'm keeping the Skullcracks and the Pacifisms at the very least. Pretty much everything else there could be changed.
Hopefully this deck list inspires some people; let me know what you think!
Hmm...this is an interesting take on heroic. Have you considered legion loyalist for the trample?
It seems like this deck would have a hard time against the B/x midrange decks. I ran some games against B/w devotion and it really struggled. Skullcrack coming out of the board did help a little, though.
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Basically the deck revolves around several heroic cards and their interactions with cards that trigger heroic and provide powerful defensive and offensive effects.
The heroes:
Phalanx Leader:
This guy makes all of your guys big... fast.
Fabled Hero:
When coupled with stuff like aqueous form and gods willing, this guy just ends games. This deck has a lot of ways to both protect this guy as well as make him unblockable.
Artisan of Forms:
This is probably the most versatile card in the deck. Generally he's there to be a multiple of phalanx leader or fabled hero, but he's also very good at being a desecration demon, boros reckoner, blood baron, etc. from your opponent's side of the board.
The enablers:
There are obviously other cards that work very well with this strategy, but I feel that these are the most powerful.
Hidden Strings:
This card allows you to push through damage as well as giving you multiple heroic triggers. Generally, the idea is to play it pre combat, tapping down your opponent's creatures or lands, then when you deal damage, you target your heroic creatures and untap them, distributing +1 counters everywhere, dealing a bunch of damage, and having pseudo vigilance.
Bioshift:
This card is pure insanity here. Although it requires some pretty decent combat math. It's interesting to note that when you target phalanx leader or fabled hero with bioshift, they get counters before the spell actually resolves, letting your move things around at will.
God's Willing:
This is probably the more versatile card in the deck. Protects your creatures from spot removal, pushes damage through a board stall, scry's etc.
My decklist:
4 Azorius Guildgate
11 plains
3 island
4 soldier of the pantheon
4 favored hoplite
4 phalanx leader
4 artisan of forms
2 fencing ace
4 fabled hero
4 god's willing
3 bioshift
2 aqueous form
2 swift justice
1 mizzium skin
Other cards that can be included:
Triton tactics: This card is very good against aggressive strategies like mono red and mono blue, however it falls short against most controlling strategies.
Ethereal armor/hopeful eidolon: This can be a very powerful combo to put into the deck, but with so much black spot removal running around right now I decided it just wasn't worth it.
battlewise hoplite: it scry's, it grows. It does what you're looking to do in this type of deck. Probably a replacement for fencing ace.
Also, it's worth exploring the green options, although I feel like UW offers the best deck and I don't want to try to run a 3 color aggro deck these days. I'm still going to post the intriguing options that green brings to the table:
mending touch: basically more god's willing. It doesn't allow your creature to actually attack through blockers, but it's much better against supreme verdict.
mutant's prey: This is actually very effective removal in this deck against decks with smaller creatures.
ranger's guile: This is basically a better version of mizzium skin. Not really that important, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
warrior's lesson: this would be the real reason to run green. 2 heroic triggers on one card along with a great card drawing spell.
kalonian hydra: Probably too expensive for what the deck wants, but the timmy in me says "do want".
wild beastmaster: this guy next to phalanx leader or with a timely bioshift seems pretty insane.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
that's pretty fair. I do like the explosiveness that fencing ace provides though. he is pretty inconsistent without a card like bioshift or phalanx leader to back him up though.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
What do you think?
3x Artisan of Forms
4x Battlewise Hoplite
2x Fabled Hero
4x Favored Hoplite
3x Hopeful Eidolon
2x Judge's Familiar
Instants
2x Bioshift
4x Gods Willing
2x Gridlock
2x Triton Tactics
4x Hidden Strings
Enchantments
3x Aqueous Form
4x Ethereal Armor
1x Spear of Heliod
Lands
2x Azorius Guildgate
4x Hallowed Fountain
6x Island
8x Plains
3x Aerial Maneuver
1x Gridlock
1x Judge's Familiar
3x Mizzium Skin
2x Phalanx Leader
2x Pithing Needle
2x Triton Tactics
Brave the Elements. With Heroic, probably good only as SB tech, but useful vs. wipe/removal heavy decks while establishing your board presence.
Archangel of Thune. Plays well with the bioshift idea, has lifegain, evasive flyer. Perhaps a bit high on the curve for the deck, maybe 2-of.
Not sure about Artisan of Forms. Feels like it could be a nice cheap Clone, but really relies on having a good card to target for copy. Still worth considering in your decklist, but 4 of may be a bit much, maybe 2 or 3 of.
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
I like it, but I think maxxing out on your prominent threats like fabled hero is in the deck's best interests. I also think that gridlock is too expensive for the deck.
I think I like aqueous form more than triton tactics in the main. The unblockable and scry on attacks is more important than the second heroic activation IMO.
I like judge's familiar in the MD. I also like the thought of bident of thassa. We need gas to follow up with should the opponent kill the creatures we put out and running creatures like the owl both help apply pressure while also protecting our main threats.
artisan started out as a 2-of, but I found that it was easily one of the best cards in the deck. Being able to clone an opponent's fatty or simply clone one of your more prominent threats like phalanx leader or fabled hero is pretty powerful. I think it really depends on the number of enablers your deck is running. The fewer enablers, the less value you can expect to get out of artisan.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
Why would I want to use this deck over a more established aggro deck, like GW or Mono-Blue Devotion? Is it more resilient? Explosive? Consistent? Is it well-positioned in the metagame? What are the matchups like? Why would I want to take this deck to a tournament over another archetype? Sell me on this deck. Make me want to grind with it at FNM, or bring it to an open. Otherwise it doesn't belong in the competitive sub.
Standard: :symu::symu::symu: Mono-Blue Devotion :symu::symu::symu:
Modern: :symr::symu: UR Pyro-Faeries :symu::symr:
EDH Decks:
Thassa, God of VALUE (now with decklist!)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
People with signatures are morons.
you obviously haven't even tried the deck much less played with bioshift in it. Bioshift has been a complete blowout in just about every game I've played it in.
I'm not here to try and sell this deck to anyone, just to create a discussion on a deck that I think can be very good and hear the thoughts of others that might think the same. It's already generating some hype among several pros, even though you probably don't know about that yet. People just haven't found the right shell for it yet.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
For starters, because bioshift targets two creatures, it triggers two sets of heroic, and it moves the counters on the target after the heroic trigger has resolved, and it does this for only one mana at instant speed. I dare to say that Novajoe discovered a staple for any deck running heroic mechanics. Good work Novajoe!
I think the Artisan of Forms along with Phalanx Leader sounds pretty potent if you can get it online, obviously the trouble will be spot removal as you start to get the deck online. I am glad you are already using God's Willing to counteract that.
I might suggest reviewing the Gatecrash counter cards in the u/g field to see if you can come up with any more interactions worth playtesting with.
That said, it does look like a pretty solid enabler yes. Though I think Kahmos might be overselling it by calling it a staple. I do think I would like to build and try this deck, or at least some form of a variant of it.
All that said, if we're aggro in blue, why no cloudfin raptor? In my personal opinion, he is better in this deck than soldier of the pantheon. He has a more solid bit of evasion (flying VS pro multicolored), a bigger butt, and potential bigger frontend. Though, in the interest of covering all avenues, unless a hallowed fountain hits the board, he doesn't work as well with curving into a T2 phalanx leader I suppose.
4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Thrill-Kill Assassin
4 Agent of Fate
3 Nighthowl
4 Duskmantle Seer
Spells (14)
4 Boon of Erebos
3 Warped Physique
4 Pharika's Cure
3 Ordeal of Thassa
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
4 Island
11 Swamp
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Mogis's Marauders
3 Illness in the Ranks
3 Hidden Strings
B/u offers native scry lands and draw/reach through Duskmantle. Boon offers protection and what I lose in power I gain in removal. SB might look odd: I fear Precinct Captain a lot more than you guys and I'm kinda surprised he doesn't appear in more lists. Illness is also good against tokens, which kinda wreck me. Hidden Strings is experimental tech against control: imagine turn 4 where your opponent is holding mana for counterspells. Cast Strings on their lands and prevent their counterspells, then you strike with your guys and get your mana back; cast your spells with impunity!
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
I think Take might be a little bit slower of a card for what this deck is trying to do. However, ignoring that aspect, it is a pretty baller card. It triggers the heroic before resolving. So, that makes it kinda somewhat useful.
Now, as for cloudfin raptor I mentioned earlier... I tried using it over soldier of Pantheon, and it was giving me pretty good results. Hidden Strings ciphered onto him gave so much mileage. I goldfished this deck against Colossal Gruul, and would have won if not for a very lucky string of events on Gruul's side (got it down to 0, but it was able to scavenging ooze a creature back up to one... then it topdecked a Domri rade to kill my [cardcloudfin raptor[/card]
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
sorry I missed these threads. the established forum is pretty cluttered these days.
I REALLY like what black has to offer here, but I think that white should be the primary core of the deck. Fabled hero and phalanx leader are simply too strong to ignore.
that said, agent of fate is a very powerful effect, and I wouldn't mind trying to make some kind of WB heroic deck if I can manage to make that kind of curve work. Going WW for phalanx leader into BB or WW for agent or hero sounds like a nightmare for aggro decks these days.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
I see it as a way to refill the tank for the long game, kind of like this decks Sphinx's (though a lot less useful). Though, thinking about it we are on color for a single Sphinx or two.
My list atm:
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Judge's Familiar
2 Suntail Hawk
Spells
4 Gods Willing
4 Titan's Strength
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Boros Charm
3 Madcap Skills
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
6 Plains
5 Mountain
2 Brave the Elements
2 Swift Justice
4 Skullcrack
1 Madcap Skills
4 Pacifism
2 Last Breath
The deck is incredibly explosive, with a surprising amount of mid-game potential with all the scry packed in. I was originally running W/U, with Battlewise Hoplite (a great card in heroic), Mizzium Skins and more value from Brave the Elements. However I changed it to W/R for better mana and more ways to just "get there", as opposed to more tempo cards.
For others looking to run a Heroic deck, I can't stress how important it is to run a large amount of 1-drops, a low land count and ZERO 3-drops. This deck wants to kill a quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible. This also means playing around wraths, removal etc. (even with Gods Willing). the problem I've found with cards above 2cmc is that not only do we not WANT to draw 3 lands until turn 5, maybe 6 or so (if we ever even need to), but we'd also want to play our 3 cmc heroic creatures as 4-drops most of the time anyway, to capitalize on their abilities as well as protect them. I've also tested with B/W heroic, with Boon of Erebos, Thoughtseize, Orzhov Charm, and Agent of the Fates...and Agent, at least, simple does not work.
With that said, so far there aren't many changes I would make to my Boros list. The 1-drop slot is fixed as far as creatures go imo (the hawks/familiars are there just for their evasion, and running a higher creature count than my original 16 makes my opponent's TS less back breaking on t1). The Dragon Mantles, amusingly, do literally everything I want from a card; they cantrip for 1 mana, the pump Etheral Armor for 1 mana, the trigger Heroic for 1 mana, AND provide a damage boost with Firebreathing that doesn't force me to overextend. I'm still not sure if I want 4 or not, I'll probably end up cutting 1 for a 4th Madcap Skill in the main, but for now it's been working fine.
Another funny card I'm running is Hopeful Eidolon, but this card is a HOUSE. Since I'm running Ethereal Armor, the fact that Eidolon himself is an enchantment is key. It mean that t1 Eidolon, t2 Ethereal armor (if you're fighting aggro, otherwise you'd want to start with a different 1-drop) gives you a 3/3 first strike lifelinker immediately. Even just playing him when you have another creature with Ethereal Armor gives a damage boost! And of course, he bestows for 4 mana (the cheapest bestow cost), pumping Armor, granting lifelink, and triggering Heroic. I highly recommend playing both him and Ethereal Armor in any W/x version.
My SB is still a work in progress, but I know I'm keeping the Skullcracks and the Pacifisms at the very least. Pretty much everything else there could be changed.
Hopefully this deck list inspires some people; let me know what you think!
These decks can barely hit 3 mana on curve yet you want to add in a rev?
I actually like that someone shares my opinion on avoiding 3-drops. Everyone loves Fabled Hero, but I think between the 1WW casting cost and the fact that him having double strike doesn't really mean anything until a few turns after he's down makes him much too slow for this sort of deck. Every time I've playtested with him he's been dead weight. I'm definitely of the mind that Heroic decks need to fit within the weenie archetype - something that typically wants to avoid 3-drops.
That being said, what do you make of Phalanx Leader? I'm reserving my opinion until I play with him more, but so far I've noticed his casting cost can be fairly oppressive in 2-color decks. I'm still debating whether or not I want him in my deck, especially over cards like Battlewise Hoplite and Artisan of Forms. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Bident of Thassa and Spear of Heliod were also considerations, as they both make Ethereal Armor bigger, and they both give you some options/make your dudes scarier, but I'm not sure about them yet.
Also, I figured I might as well post my updated decklist. I'm running UW over WR (Aqueous Form and Hidden Strings really sold me on it), but I'd still like to know your opinion.
4x Artisan of Forms
4x Battlewise Hoplite
4x Favored Hoplite
4x Hopeful Eidolon
3x Judge's Familiar
3x Aqueous Form
4x Ethereal Armor
Sorcery (4)
4x Hidden Strings
Instant (10)
3x Bioshift
4x Gods Willing
1x Gridlock
2x Triton Tactics
2x Azorius Guildgate
4x Hallowed Fountain
8x Island
6x Plains
I started as U/W, and my deck was very similar to yours except no Hidden Strings, and more protection spells. I like W/R much better because it's even more aggressive, and mainly it has access to more pump spells (Titan's Grip, Dragon Mantle, Charm and Madcap Skills, which doubles as a way to push damage through blockers). The mana is also better in Boros. I miss Battlewise Hoplite and Aqueous Form, which are both great cards for the deck, as you know - But I still have a decent amount of scry, and I prefer the burst and consistency that W/R offers.
If you're going U/W though, I'd probably take the Hidden Strings out and replace them with Hands of Binding in the SB. I like Strings, and it can lead to fairly degenerate starts and Heroic Triggers, but I feel it would mostly just tap down blockers, which Hands does better. That's my opinion though, maybe the trade off is worth it, I dunno.
Another couple things I forgot: First, take out Bioshift. Never play it. If you want a card that gets value when they try to kill something, or as a trick, play Rapid Hybridization; it doubles as a kill spell too. And I like Artisan of Forms, I just don't think he does enough for an aggressive deck. You'll never want to target him with something for his trigger over someone else's.
Sorry if that sounded kinda stingy, I assure you it wasn't meant that way. I like where your headed. I think W/U and W/R are the 2 best ways to go personally, I'd be interested to see how your version works out.
I'm playing in a Premier Standard event right now, sadly I'm 1-1 so far Beat Naya aggro/midrange, lost narrowly to Orzhov midrange, mainly because I mulled g2 when I didn't really need to. I'll provide updates as I go!
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Hmm...this is an interesting take on heroic. Have you considered legion loyalist for the trample?
It seems like this deck would have a hard time against the B/x midrange decks. I ran some games against B/w devotion and it really struggled. Skullcrack coming out of the board did help a little, though.