While I love to play permission based decks when possible, I'm really not sure the current environment is conducive to that. Without having any hard counter at less than 3cmc, or a reprint of Mana Leak, turn 1 - 2 counterspells are either too soft, or just irrelevant(like Stymied Hopes and Thassa's Rebuff or Swan Song, Annul, and Dispel. If this type of build works for you, it's definitely something I'm willing to try out.
Also, after trying Disciple of Deceit, I've opted to switch back to Omenspeaker. Omenspeaker firing off on turn 2 is really helping more than trying to ransmute after attacking. Springleaf Drum is just awful in this build, and takes up too many slots without enough creatures. And this is after adding 3 Notion Theif in place of Font of Fortunes(formerly Divination) and Dictate of Krufix in place of my 4x Quicken. Now that I have brought that up, I would like to say I am incredibly impressed with the Dictate Thief draw engine. It's actually something I've been willing to flash in at EOT 3/4 then cast Thief on my turn 4/5. Getting 3 cards between mine and their turn is great. While NT being a 3/1 makes him easy to burn, its easy to get to one of the other 3, and when you have control of the board state, you can take out your opponent quicker with at least 3 - 6 power on the board. Throw in Omenspeaker and Mutavault, and I'm able to pace better as well. Overall, I'm going to continue running this until it turns into something that gets broken up easily.(i.e. getting rid of Dictate would warrant returning to Font of Fortunes, as I can sac in response to an answer for the draw).
Mana Confluence is not really the life we can pay for the mana fixing, unless I start maindecking Blood Baron.
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@ INS - It's nice to see you again after the Grixis forum. I think that's as far as I'll discuss that subthread, it's really gone downhill after a certain point.
I feel like BUG could also work, Bow is a nice addition. I honestly think that UB only gets more powerful when you splash a color to it, specifically white or green IMO. We need ways to gain life.
With no disrespect intended, I feel like your permission build tries to do too much of one thing. The deck does a really good job at denial and stalling before you get to land a win condition -- which is really good for a control deck, knowing it wants to land its win condition with a guarantee of a] no answer or b] a counter to the answer. Although, with only running the 1 Aetherling as a Wincon I feel like practicality might be an issue with the deck. Unless you draw the big guy early after the board is clear you're going to be going to tiem a lot in many scenarios, and that doesn't seem like a good thing at all.
Perhaps you can cut a couple of your abundant spells in order to include maybe 3-5 other win conditions. A lot of times Midrange/Aggro decks start to draw stale after their first couple of turns.
This deck has a lot of "okay" game ones, but the sideboard has such a good toolbox that the consecutive games are a lot easier to win. I'm thinking of moving Blood Baron into the main, but I don't know what I'd replace or move what numbers around in order to achieve this. I feel it might be good for the deck regardless of what changes could be made.
@NateTheArtificer - I think you'll really like the Dictate + Notion Thief interaction. it presents a soft lock to your opponent. If they choose to deal with it you replaced your Notion Thief with another card and it ate a removal spell, even better if it's a Hero's Downfall or Dreadbore as it helps you stick a PWalker. If they dont' deal with it you just overwhelm them with an avalanche of card advantage for a quicker win.
It's not really a matter of having more win cons though, but more that every other win con in UB colors baring Aetherling is pretty terrible in of themselves.
That and as I've specified in other threads repeatedly, Notion Thief just isn't a good creature in general and provides very little value outside of it's otherwise fragile interaction with Dictate. Also in your specific list I would think Ashiok would be a better fit in the Architects slots, considering the angle your deck is trying to attack from. That said I am very interested to see just how far you'd be able to go with Dictate in general, without ruining otherwise bad cards or cute combo's.
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Have you considered having a couple of putrefy in case you need a couple of extra unconditional creature kill spells? And I also imagine having access to Abrupt Decay in the sideboard to use against aggro decks as well as having a catch all for cheap but annoying permanents would be rather useful.
I definitely would go with Putrefy if I wanted a 5th, maybe 6th Hero's Downfall. I'm just currently at a point where that's not something I'm really looking for. However, when I add Font of Fortunes, the mana curve might work a bit differently. IDK; I haven't tested with it because it's not on MTGO yet.
I have a history of Abrupt Decay stabbing me in the back because of how many things it doesn't hit, but maybe I need to do the right thing and just test it, again. Maybe a couple could be good, if I find some room.
While I love to play permission based decks when possible, I'm really not sure the current environment is conducive to that. Without having any hard counter at less than 3cmc, or a reprint of Mana Leak, turn 1 - 2 counterspells are either too soft, or just irrelevant(like Stymied Hopes and Thassa's Rebuff or Swan Song, Annul, and Dispel. If this type of build works for you, it's definitely something I'm willing to try out.
I don't understand where you're getting the vast majority of this information from. Out of all the cards you've mentioned above, the only card I'm playing is Dispel in the sideboard. And you're saying that there are no hard counters below CMC 3, but that's completely ignoring the 4-of Nullify and Negate/Gainsay between the main and board. Why don't you trust Nullify? It answers just about every threat in the format but planeswalkers, Mutavault, and the small handful of uncounterable creatures. And you also just failed to mention Syncopate, too. What's the deal?
@ INS - It's nice to see you again after the Grixis forum. I think that's as far as I'll discuss that subthread, it's really gone downhill after a certain point.
I feel like BUG could also work, Bow is a nice addition. I honestly think that UB only gets more powerful when you splash a color to it, specifically white or green IMO. We need ways to gain life.
With no disrespect intended, I feel like your permission build tries to do too much of one thing. The deck does a really good job at denial and stalling before you get to land a win condition -- which is really good for a control deck, knowing it wants to land its win condition with a guarantee of a] no answer or b] a counter to the answer. Although, with only running the 1 Aetherling as a Wincon I feel like practicality might be an issue with the deck. Unless you draw the big guy early after the board is clear you're going to be going to tiem a lot in many scenarios, and that doesn't seem like a good thing at all.
Perhaps you can cut a couple of your abundant spells in order to include maybe 3-5 other win conditions. A lot of times Midrange/Aggro decks start to draw stale after their first couple of turns.
No offense taken. There are a couple of reasons for playing such a small number of win conditions. First of all, I'm playing this deck on MTGO. I have no plans to play offline tournaments with it, so I will only be using the deck in games with a chess clock. I also happen to play very quickly. So because I'm playing quickly, and because I'm able to think on my opponent's time (due to the draw-go system), I don't even come close to timing out of matches, even in control mirrors. So to me, there is no downside to winning on turn 46. Winning on turn 46 is still winning. If this was offline, I'd probably play a second Aetherling main because games are not played with a chess clock. But online, there's no issue with that. It's not like you're going to deck with a Bow of Nylea in there to put cards on the bottom.
Really, I'd like another couple of win conditions so that I don't lose to things like Counterflux or Slaughter Games. Other than that, I don't really care. My gameplan is not trying to stall out while I wait for Aetherling; my gameplan is to put mana on the table and constantly trade my cards for my opponent's threats while I produce card advantage from draw spells. Get ahead, trade. Get ahead, trade. It shouldn't matter what you win with; it's academic when you've reached the late-game. All that matters is stabilizing and then maintaining position.
As far as doing the same thing all the time...I don't see a problem with that; I see only consistency. Nobody looks at a burn deck and says "you have too many things that do the same thing" because that redundancy gives it strength. Nobody looks at Elfball decks and has a problem with two many creatures and not enough non-creature spells. Right?
It's good to see you on the forums again, too. And yeah...that Grixis thread is a total mess. I wish people who think Izzet Charm is card advantage would just move to an island and form a leper colony.
This deck has a lot of "okay" game ones, but the sideboard has such a good toolbox that the consecutive games are a lot easier to win. I'm thinking of moving Blood Baron into the main, but I don't know what I'd replace or move what numbers around in order to achieve this. I feel it might be good for the deck regardless of what changes could be made.
It's not actually a "toolbox" unless you have a tutor system in place to find a specific answer when you need it. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of 2-ofs. That can be fine in its own right, but it's not like you can just use telepathy to tell your deck to deliver a 2-outer at will. So if you play the Disciple or some other tutor system, it's a toolbox. If not, well...you get the idea.
It's not really a matter of having more win cons though, but more that every other win con in UB colors baring Aetherling is pretty terrible in of themselves.
That and as I've specified in other threads repeatedly, Notion Thief just isn't a good creature in general and provides very little value outside of it's otherwise fragile interaction with Dictate. Also in your specific list I would think Ashiok would be a better fit in the Architects slots, considering the angle your deck is trying to attack from. That said I am very interested to see just how far you'd be able to go with Dictate in general, without ruining otherwise bad cards or cute combo's.
I concur with this; I really like Notion Thief but it's a horrible time to run the card. It's not a good blocker, and it's really hard to justify that creature as an offensive threat or anti-planeswalker clock when almost everyone is playing Mutavaults. And it's not hard to kill, either. I'm with TOG on this one: if you can make Dictate work on its own, then play the Dictate. It's already a flash Howling Mine that benefits you first.
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On another note, does anyone have thoughts about Worst Fears? I'm talking about it as a sideboard card for control mirrors. It happens to be an answer to a resolved Aetherling.
I have my doubts about Worst Fears because of it's mana cost. Maybe casting this after an opponent plays their own Aetherling so you can kill theirs and then play yours with mana open for counter magic. But I have a very hard time seeing this card resolving because it's so darn expensive.
Also about Aetherling, I showed a friend of mine your decklist and he very vocally pointed out that if a pithing needle resolves naming Aetherling, you'd likely lose those games post sideboard due to not having any way to remove one from play. That in itself was another reason I pointed out Abrupt Decay and Putrefy. But use of those two cards are likely going to be influenced by the online metagame.
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Found myself agreeing with most of this post about Cavern of souls and countermagic.
Back from trading post land, the artifacts in this set to recur are simply too weak to want to be running the card. However, I do like font of fortune and travelers amulet quite a bit (recurring amulet is a lot of work for not a lot of value). Dictate of kruphix has been awkward to amazing. However, it puts us in awkward negate-nullify quandary. Permanents like Xenagos PW are problems that I haven't solved. I really like cyclonic rift but no one else seems to be running it. Is it because it's bad and I just can't tell?
I have little else to report other than that trading post land isn't too great. It requires a lot of action for little to no reward. D-sphere and banishing light are nightmares for permanent based control.
That and as I've specified in other threads repeatedly, Notion Thief just isn't a good creature in general and provides very little value outside of it's otherwise fragile interaction with Dictate. Also in your specific list I would think Ashiok would be a better fit in the Architects slots, considering the angle your deck is trying to attack from. That said I am very interested to see just how far you'd be able to go with Dictate in general, without ruining otherwise bad cards or cute combo's.
Yeah, the combo works, but only when I drop it. It's starting to look a little slow, and gets easily broken with the theif getting killed, and then they just get more answers to my stuff. I'm still gonna test it further, but today wasn't a great day for Notion Thief. Seems like his best play is to net you some serious cards off a Sphinx Rev or something.
[quote from="NateTheArtificer" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/competitive/established-standard/507414-dimir-control?comment=284"]While I love to play permission based decks when possible, I'm really not sure the current environment is conducive to that. Without having any hard counter at less than 3cmc, or a reprint of Mana Leak, turn 1 - 2 counterspells are either too soft, or just irrelevant(like Stymied Hopes and Thassa's Rebuff or Swan Song, Annul, and Dispel. If this type of build works for you, it's definitely something I'm willing to try out.
I don't understand where you're getting the vast majority of this information from. Out of all the cards you've mentioned above, the only card I'm playing is Dispel in the sideboard. And you're saying that there are no hard counters below CMC 3, but that's completely ignoring the 4-of Nullify and Negate/Gainsay between the main and board. Why don't you trust Nullify? It answers just about every threat in the format but planeswalkers, Mutavault, and the small handful of uncounterable creatures. And you also just failed to mention Syncopate, too. What's the deal?
What I'm referring to as a hard counter, is things that say "Counter Target Spell" without saying "unless", barring a Mana Leak reprint in M15, which I doubt will happen. That being said, without having an early Counterspell that can target anything, it seems like aggro can pace you easily. Nullify requiring 2 blue plus restictions, I'd rather have a Negate and Essence Scatter. You can't tap an island and a Mutavault to cast Nullify. That may seem like a small problem, but the color intensity like that on a two drop, in my experience testing the card, was too much for me. I didn't name Syncopate, because while it's not Mana Leak, it's still good enough permission to include, so I have no complaints about it, even though it does have the "unless". With unless being x and the end result exiling, it's enough value, and usually isn't a dead card. Usually. Having a Permission build that doesn't have a lot of solid answers for Mutavault, Planeswalkers, and Mistcutter/Skylasher kind of creatures could turn into a big problem, especially without having a way to reuse spells as efficiently like Snapcaster did. All that being said, I understand that my assessment could be completely wrong, and if so I'd be happy to admit that, as well as try this type of build out.
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If you don't think that Syncopate is a good enough counterspell, you're doing something wrong. And obviously Nullify is easy to cast for me because I have 19 blue sources within my lands, not even considering the playset of mana trees that I'm running. I'm not going to debate this anymore. If you're unwilling to test cards before passing judgment on them, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.
If you don't think that Syncopate is a good enough counterspell, you're doing something wrong. And obviously Nullify is easy to cast for me because I have 19 blue sources within my lands, not even considering the playset of mana trees that I'm running. I'm not going to debate this anymore. If you're unwilling to test cards before passing judgment on them, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.
Ok, first off, I have tested Nullify in my build.
Second, I did say syncopate is good. Usually means, like with all cards, there are situations it's not aplicable, like when someone has enough mana to pay your x. It's still good.
Third, I didn't say anything negative about you're build, admitted my consensus could be way off base and that I am willing to try something like your permission build, as it is something I do like to play, so I don't know what in the world you are being this rude for. If I need to clarify where I think you're being rude, "shoot yourself in the foot" after apparently misreading my entire post assuming I think syncopate is bad, which I said the exact opposite. Nullify didn't work in MY build, answering your question as to why I don't trust it in MY build. And MOST of all I wasn't debating anything in your build at all in the first place. I said I want to run something like that, I just don't think it will work for me, but if it proves solid for you, I want to know. Wow, dude.
You can't tap an island and a Mutavault to cast Nullify. That may seem like a small problem, but the color intensity like that on a two drop, in my experience testing the card, was too much for me. I didn't name Syncopate, because while it's not Mana Leak, it's still good enough permission to include, so I have no complaints about it..., even though it does have the "unless". With unless being x and the end result exiling, it's enough value, and usually isn't a dead card. Usually. Having a Permission build that doesn't have a lot of solid answers for Mutavault, Planeswalkers, and Mistcutter/Skylasher kind of creatures could turn into a big problem, especially without having a way to reuse spells as efficiently like Snapcaster did. All that being said, I understand that my assessment could be completely wrong, and if so I'd be happy to admit that, as well as try this type of build out.
Please let me know where I am going wrong here, because I honestly thought the message I was sending you was an explination of why I'm not using things like that, that I could, and would love to, be wrong about this, and most of all would like to try it. Please, because I can't wrap my head around your reaction, and yes, I'm taking it kind of personal.
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I was able to play a few games of INS' UBg control tonight with a couple of card changes. For the meta I was in I hated having Sylvan Caryatid in the main and I desperately wished it was anything other than a mana source. It was a good turn 2 play but in the later turns the card interfered with my game plan of keeping as much mana open as possible. I switched to a playset of Dimir Charm and I've been very happy with it's inclusion so far, and I imagine it would be strong against mono B devotion. I never got to see the Bow in my match against mono red but if the card hit play for a few turns it would have won the game for me.
I added putrefy and I found the inclusion to be great for unconditional killing of creatures and for taking out whip and random pithing needles. Abrupt Decay out of the side performed beyond expectations, as did font and opportunity in the main. I like nullify for it's cheap cost but a couple of times I was caught out by planeswalkers and whip of erebos. I know the online meta is different from playing on cardboard but I have a strong need for a second and third win con. I'm going to try out death-rite shaman for being a cheap and disruptive win con out of the side that also doubles as graveyard hate. It was also suggested to me to give Jace, Memory Adept a try also. Overall I do like the deck and what it does very well.
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Found myself agreeing with most of this post about Cavern of souls and countermagic.
Kiora. the Crashing Wave is a great wincon, and even Vraska the Unseen can win games. [/c]Jace, Memory Adpet[/c] can usually put people on a 4 turn clock, depending on when you land him. I'm not sure what you mean about Carytid, how is it not helping you keep mana open?
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Well Caryatid was a good turn 2 play, but if I drew one after turn 2 it would usually be a turn 4 or 5 play so I could have mana for counter magic available still. Playing it in the later turns interfered with the gameplan of being able to both draw cards and use countermagic too much, and while it was a good blocker it couldn't kill key small creatures like courser of kruphix or mutavaults.
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Found myself agreeing with most of this post about Cavern of souls and countermagic.
Hey guys, here is the deck I run with. I have recently decided to add the pack rat option because it helps streamline my deck and provides an alt win-con as well as makes some dead cards useful. I have not extensively tested it but I think the rats will work here. I chucked in 1 Silence the believers to test out in place of 1 Far // away. I believe it could be useful. I used to run with Aetherling MB but Prognostic Sphinx has performed way better for me. I am going to a FNM this Friday with this deck, I will post results.
What do you guys think?
Number of Players: 14
Position: 5
4 Rounds: Loss; Won; Won; Draw
First Match: BWR Midrange
First Game:
I've controlled the match pretty well, but Pack Rats and Dreadbore helped my oppo to control the board better than i could, and in the end fired at me Helixes, Magma jets, and boros charms... Burned out
Second Game: I've sided in 2x Dimir Charms, and 2x Bile Blight - Out: Silence the believers, 1x Far Away, 1x Dissolve, and 1x Hero's Downfall. He sided in 9 cards (Rakdos Return, Slaughter Games, Thoughtseizes and other stuff)
I've being able to control the match perfectly, and even when he casted Slaughter Games calling for Dissolve, i had Syncopate in my hand, and tons of removal. Ashiok revealed and played a Blod Baron Of Vizkopa, and that was gg, but we ran out of time and so the match ended 1-0 for him, but if we had continued, i would have won...
1-0
Second Match: Simic (Aggro/Midrange)
Well, it was a strange deck with Experiment One, Cloudfin Raptor, Nylea god and bow, Prophets, Kiora... First time that i see this kind of Simic...
First Game: I let him resolve a bow, 1 Raptor. The rest have been countered, or removed, and Ashiok + Jace controlled the board. A Late game Aetherling ended the game. Pretty easy i'd say...
Second Game: In: Doom Blade 3x- Dimir Charm 1x - Bile Blight 2x Out: 2x Devour Flesh - 1x Inspiration - 1x Far Away -2x Devour Flesh - 1x Dissolve
He had 3x Experiment One and 1x Cloudfin Raptor on the first turn. I was scared, but a Bile Blight saved my ass, and Jace stopped his aggro plan. I let him play a Bow, but i wasn't expecting a Savage Summoning on Nylea 2 turns later honestly... Then he devoted with one Prophet in his turn, but Silence the believers at 7 ruined his plans. Ashiok won the game.
2-0
3rd Match: WB Humans.
The player was unskilled, maybe he started a few ago, dunno... The deck anyway was the standard BW Humans running Atreo, Xatrid and so on...
1st Game: 3rd turn Ashiok i've casted half of his deck while he flooded, and his mutavault could nothing against Captain of Precinct
2nd Game: He haven't even sided in anything D:... In 2x Dimir Charm - 2x Bile Blight. Out: 1 Inspiration - 1 Far/Away - 1x Dissolve - 1x Devour Flesh.
He mulled to 5. Don't remember that much, just that Ashiok 3rd turn, and Jace 4th made the game... Pretty disappointed from this match D:
4th Match: UW Ephara Aggro.
This match compensated the previous one: Skilled Player with a good deck. He ran Ephara, Brimaz, Captains...
First Game: I've been stupid, and i wasn't expecting a 4th turn Ephara, so i tapped out for Ashiok, and she ruined the entire game. Not much to say.
Second Game: Sided in: 3x Doom Blade, 2x Dimir Charm - Out: 1x Dissolve - 1x Inspiration - 1x Silence the believers - 1x Far Away - 1x Devour Flesh.
This time i've been much more careful, and i've controlled the game easily. Ashiok provided me an Ephara and Brimaz, and that was enough to close the game.
3rd Game: time ended, and so was a draw, but i wanted to play the 3rd game, just to see if i've been lucky, or the deck is good enough to manage Ephara Aggro. This time was thoughter than before, but again a late game Ashiok made the difference, well protected by my removals. A solved Opportunity was gg. 2-1
Considerations:
I love the deck. It has its weaknesses, but i feel always well protected.
Cards that surprised me most:
1) Opportunity = A solved one is gg for real. Tell me whatever u want about Sphinx's Reve, but opportunity replaces it really well. 3x is enough, not less, and no more.
2) Dimir Charm = I've played it most for the third effect than the second one (Vanishing the scry 2 of a Magma Jet, Ruining the top deck of UW aggro...), but it also removed a lot of threats like Captains, Prophets, and Mutavaults... Awesome... i'm thinking to play it main,but just for a meta call
3)Silence The Believers = Saved me from a raging Nylea. Playing it 1x becomes a strong late game removal.
4)Encroaching Wastes = This is controversial, and i've never used its ability in tournament, but in other matches have broken Nykthos many times. I love it and 2x is ok!
Cards that disappointed me:
Inspiration = Two cards are not enough for 4 manas. I won't go for Divination, but i really hope M15 will bring a better draw spell.
Dimir Guildgate = I think i'll replace it with mana Conflux. 4 Cipt lands with my bad luck are more than enough. Tell me whatever you want about mana loss vs cipt, but i thought a lot about this, and i've ended up that if i could, i'd play 6 shocklands rather than 4+2guildgates.
Pithing Needle = I've never sided in, so i'm asking... do i really need it? with 14 players just one GR Monsters...
Well Caryatid was a good turn 2 play, but if I drew one after turn 2 it would usually be a turn 4 or 5 play so I could have mana for counter magic available still. Playing it in the later turns interfered with the gameplan of being able to both draw cards and use countermagic too much, and while it was a good blocker it couldn't kill key small creatures like courser of kruphix or mutavaults.
I get ya, it's messing with your late game curve. Makes sense.
Hey guys, here is the deck I run with. I have recently decided to add the pack rat option because it helps streamline my deck and provides an alt win-con as well as makes some dead cards useful. I have not extensively tested it but I think the rats will work here. I chucked in 1 Silence the believers to test out in place of 1 Far // away. I believe it could be useful. I used to run with Aetherling MB but Prognostic Sphinx has performed way better for me. I am going to a FNM this Friday with this deck, I will post results.
What do you guys think?
So how were your results? My list is a similar to this, however I'm still splashing white for a few cards. I like the build over all.
So here are some thoughts on current standard: Feast of Dreams hits a lot of things so I'm trying it MB. Mixed results. Disciple of Deceit is far to slow for me, I'm going back to Omenspeaker. Silence the Believers looks really good as a 1-of, my only problem is the 4 cmc. Test in the near future. Doom Blade seems to have way more targets now than it did a few months ago, while Ultimate Price has a little less. Switching back to Doom Blade MB, Dark Betrayal SB. I have seen situations where an Extinguish All Hope may be worth 2 sibeboard slots, to side out Merciless Eviction. Test in the near future. I really wish we had a Black or UB Wrath effect for less than 6cmc. Tons of times I want to blow up the board at that point and I'm stuck with a 6cmc Sweeper or Cclonic Rift, Verdict is anticipated be Boros Charm, Golgari Charm, and Rootborn Defenses which turns a G2 Verdict into a waste of 4 mana, a 6cmc Wipe with a Negate or Dispel to back it up, and/or usually a game loss. Further more, I'm not trying to run Esper. Any other thoughts on some of the newer cards?
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Won against MBD and simic aggro deck. Loss against Gruul monsters. Drew against UW control due to running out of time.
I really wish we had a decent sweeper. The only similar things we have are: Silence the believers, cyclonic rift and extinguish all hope. I think Silence and cyclonic are great but only 1-2 of and I cannot see extinguish all hope being viable in this meta. Feast of dreams is interesting I might find room for it in the side. Get rid of the white Nate, come back to the true colours!!
I really wanted to add thoughtseize, so here is my updated decklist:
I added in the Soul ransom for testing, I really want it to work. If it fails I will probably +1 far // away or pack rat
Won against MBD and simic aggro deck. Loss against Gruul monsters. Drew against UW control due to running out of time.
I really wish we had a decent sweeper. The only similar things we have are: Silence the believers, cyclonic rift and extinguish all hope. I think Silence and cyclonic are great but only 1-2 of and I cannot see extinguish all hope being viable in this meta. Feast of dreams is interesting I might find room for it in the side. Get rid of the white Nate, come back to the true colours!!
I really wanted to add thoughtseize, so here is my updated decklist:
I added in the Soul ransom for testing, I really want it to work. If it fails I will probably +1 far // away or pack rat
I'm really ok with the white spalash. Flavorfully, it's like Dimir Mind Controlling something White to do our bidding. ACtually, it was a competative choice. However, should it prove worthy, we have ourselves a beautiful little card called Perilous Vault dropping into Standard in about a month. It's an exiling Oblivion Stone, which is a complete hoss for removal in modern.
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You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I was drooling over that card, its perfect for us! I am going to struggle squeezing it in my MB though : / Not sure what to take out. Perhaps I will sideboard the rats...
I went 3-1 last friday with the deck from my last post. Only difference is the sideboard:
WON AGAINST: Myself (had a bye), populate deck, Grixis Control
LOST AGAINST: Some mono red home brew thing. It was too fast. I managed to stabilize game one on 3 health, (woo go sphinxes!!) however I got axed the other 2 games. I made the mistake of adding 3x Drown in sorrow from the side, which didnt do much.
Here are some thoughts of cards: Font of fortunes Love this damn card, I reckon its the best low cost draw card we have! I like its play style
Prognostic Sphinx aka the stabilizer. This guy is the bridge to victory. Some people forget about the discard a card for hexproof which is awesome, but Ive had some people try and bait with it. (Used ultimate price to force me to discard a card, then he fired off a devour flesh Scry 3 is beautiful
Psychic strike I prefer this to dissolve. Easier to cast and the mill for 2 is kinda nice. I run a playset of this and 2x Syncopate. I love synco but I've found having 3 is too many. There was quite a few times where I would draw it late game and it would be useless.
Bile blight Not really that keen on it anymore, Ratchet bomb solved all my token / multi-creature removal. I don't think I sided it in once.
Cyclonic rift Loving the one-of. This card has saved my ass in so many tight spots.
silence the believers Awesome one-of. The ability to 'kick' it has proven useful. I think its too many intensive to put multiple copies.
I was drooling over that card, its perfect for us! I am going to struggle squeezing it in my MB though : / Not sure what to take out. Perhaps I will sideboard the rats...
Although Slower, it still exiles, looks like something for ratchet bomb, hopefully there are enough artifacts we can use to warrant 4x Typhoid Rats, 4x Omenspeaker, and 4x Chief Engineer. Vault and [c]Soul of Phyrexia look great on paper. I reeeaaalllyyyyy enjoy Shoota Yasuka's Tezzeret Control Lists back in Scars Standard.
Here are some thoughts of cards: Font of fortunes Love this damn card, I reckon its the best low cost draw card we have! I like its play style
Yup, love it. Pay up front, and crack at instant speed later convinced me to replace Divination, especially since it can easily help you hit land drops earlier.
Prognostic Sphinx aka the stabilizer. This guy is the bridge to victory. Some people forget about the discard a card for hexproof which is awesome, but Ive had some people try and bait with it. (Used ultimate price to force me to discard a card, then he fired off a devour flesh Scry 3 is beautiful[/c]
Definitely going back in when AEtherling rolls, I'm going to miss him so much.
[quote from="PregnantSphinx »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/competitive/established-standard/507414-dimir-control?comment=302"]Psychic strike I prefer this to dissolve. Easier to cast and the mill for 2 is kinda nice. I run a playset of this and 2x Syncopate. I love synco but I've found having 3 is too many. There was quite a few times where I would draw it late game and it would be useless.
Yeah, I mainly run Dissolve since I'm not very Counterspell heavy in the main, and I really love to abuse the hell out of digging in my Library. Syncopate is something I haven't ran, but probably should have, especially since I've lost a ton of games to Chandra's Phoenix.
Bile blight Not really that keen on it anymore, Ratchet bomb solved all my token / multi-creature removal. I don't think I sided it in once.
I can see that being a meta choice, if you aren't getting the use out of it to hit multiple creatures or something with indestructible(needing at least 2 for a God thats turned on) I can see running something else in that slot. Works for me though. I WILL be getting a playset of the promos from FNMs.
Cyclonic rift Loving the one-of. This card has saved my ass in so many tight spots.
Yup, good thing when it rolls, we have at least 2 mass bounce spells still. Arguably better in the meta, as the mana cost is much cheaper than overload.
silence the believers Awesome one-of. The ability to 'kick' it has proven useful. I think its too many intensive to put multiple copies.
I haven't gotten to use it yet, only because I didn't draw it when I boarded it in, but yeah, agreed wholeheartedly.
Also, Stain the Mind seems like a 2 of if ytou run creature heavy enough, and it's starting to look like we may be able to run a more creature based control, and may have to, to fight what I'm guessing as more heavy aggro with KTK coming in and getting some really goodw use out of Convoke. Also, imagine this, Turn 1 Typhoid Rats, Turn 2 Omenspeaker, Returned Phalanx, or Black CatTurn 3 Ashiok exile 3 Loy. 5, Turn 4 The Chain Veil, Exile 3 loyalty 7, Turn 5 Ex1le the top 6, Loyalty 9, Opponents Turn Aetherspouts, Turn 6 Exile 3 + Opponents Hand and Graveyard. After that, Ashiok starts dumping out creatures and you win, rofl. I know it would take killer draws, basically a stacked deck. But yeah, seriously good stuff.
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I think you may be right, we may have an awesome looking U/B tezzarett artifact control archetype! I kinda wanna stick to straight U/B control but we will see. Blue hasn't really seen much gold so far. I guess we will see when KTK comes out. I think Ashiok's time to shine is just around the corner. I suspect we will see a lot of him/her/it post rotation. THE RISE OF DIMIR BABY WOO. Fingers crossed for minimal mill cards in KTK.
I think I will def. chuck some M15 cards into my current deck when it gets released, im thinking:
2-3 perilous vault Ive got high hopes for this card.
3-4 AEtherspouts ( I keep thinking it says Aethersprouts lol)
2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
What are you thinking about adding to your current deck while we wait for KIK to be released?
Well, with so many cheap creatures for 1 - 2 mana, Peel From Reality and big nasty Artifact Creatures and Revoker. I'm most definitely trying a artifact build. If that tests even subpar, I'm going 3 spouts 2 Whelming wave, no idea on spot removal since I see no Doom blade in M15 and Ulzerate isn't any better than bile blight for us(probably 3-4 blight, 4 Downfall Main) SB Stain the Mind, I'm not sure about anything else, or even solid on that. A lot of my build is rolling out. Prog Sphinx is the best Aetherling replacement, so I'm really unsure. Draw Demon seems good, but no self protection. On Nix doesn't seem relevant in T2. I'm really not sure. :-\
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Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
While I. An see Chasm Skulker working similar to a blue pack rat of sorts, it feels more at home in a UW or UG style card to me. That, by no means says it won't work. It sure did catch my eye a lot while scrolling through spoilers. It's definitely worth a play test.
Radiant Fountain seems like it could take Mutavault's slots after rotation, with Urborg on the field, it pays both mana and life for Thoughtseize.
Jace's Ingenuity is a great hand filler, but I don't know how well it will work. Those here that run Opportunity, will probably have ingenuity as an auto include at rotation. I may nee to start going more creature heavy or more draw heavy in my build, since my LGS is starting to meta against me. I'm not sure if I'd rather have AEtherspouts in my hand at that point.
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Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I'm really diggin perilous vault, it's a good enabler for aetherling since ub control's weakness was the inability to deal with resolved/threatening non-creature permanents. Gonna start here and tune it accordingly, dimir control will be my project for now
Also, after trying Disciple of Deceit, I've opted to switch back to Omenspeaker. Omenspeaker firing off on turn 2 is really helping more than trying to ransmute after attacking. Springleaf Drum is just awful in this build, and takes up too many slots without enough creatures. And this is after adding 3 Notion Theif in place of Font of Fortunes(formerly Divination) and Dictate of Krufix in place of my 4x Quicken. Now that I have brought that up, I would like to say I am incredibly impressed with the Dictate Thief draw engine. It's actually something I've been willing to flash in at EOT 3/4 then cast Thief on my turn 4/5. Getting 3 cards between mine and their turn is great. While NT being a 3/1 makes him easy to burn, its easy to get to one of the other 3, and when you have control of the board state, you can take out your opponent quicker with at least 3 - 6 power on the board. Throw in Omenspeaker and Mutavault, and I'm able to pace better as well. Overall, I'm going to continue running this until it turns into something that gets broken up easily.(i.e. getting rid of Dictate would warrant returning to Font of Fortunes, as I can sac in response to an answer for the draw).
Mana Confluence is not really the life we can pay for the mana fixing, unless I start maindecking Blood Baron.
Testing the Aegis of the Gods, Deicide , and Feast of Dreams in the sideboard currently.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I feel like BUG could also work, Bow is a nice addition. I honestly think that UB only gets more powerful when you splash a color to it, specifically white or green IMO. We need ways to gain life.
With no disrespect intended, I feel like your permission build tries to do too much of one thing. The deck does a really good job at denial and stalling before you get to land a win condition -- which is really good for a control deck, knowing it wants to land its win condition with a guarantee of a] no answer or b] a counter to the answer. Although, with only running the 1 Aetherling as a Wincon I feel like practicality might be an issue with the deck. Unless you draw the big guy early after the board is clear you're going to be going to tiem a lot in many scenarios, and that doesn't seem like a good thing at all.
Perhaps you can cut a couple of your abundant spells in order to include maybe 3-5 other win conditions. A lot of times Midrange/Aggro decks start to draw stale after their first couple of turns.
EDIT:
Here is my latest UBw build for Journey into Nyx.
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Nullify
2 Devour Flesh
2 Syncopate
2 Deicide
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Dissolve
Enchantment //
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Creature/Planeswalker //
2 Notion Thief
1 AEtherling
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Elixir of Immortality
Land //
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
4 Island
4 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
3 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Last Breath
2 Negate
2 Gainsay
2 Ultimate Price
1 Far // Away
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Duress
This deck has a lot of "okay" game ones, but the sideboard has such a good toolbox that the consecutive games are a lot easier to win. I'm thinking of moving Blood Baron into the main, but I don't know what I'd replace or move what numbers around in order to achieve this. I feel it might be good for the deck regardless of what changes could be made.
@NateTheArtificer - I think you'll really like the Dictate + Notion Thief interaction. it presents a soft lock to your opponent. If they choose to deal with it you replaced your Notion Thief with another card and it ate a removal spell, even better if it's a Hero's Downfall or Dreadbore as it helps you stick a PWalker. If they dont' deal with it you just overwhelm them with an avalanche of card advantage for a quicker win.
That and as I've specified in other threads repeatedly, Notion Thief just isn't a good creature in general and provides very little value outside of it's otherwise fragile interaction with Dictate. Also in your specific list I would think Ashiok would be a better fit in the Architects slots, considering the angle your deck is trying to attack from. That said I am very interested to see just how far you'd be able to go with Dictate in general, without ruining otherwise bad cards or cute combo's.
I definitely would go with Putrefy if I wanted a 5th, maybe 6th Hero's Downfall. I'm just currently at a point where that's not something I'm really looking for. However, when I add Font of Fortunes, the mana curve might work a bit differently. IDK; I haven't tested with it because it's not on MTGO yet.
I have a history of Abrupt Decay stabbing me in the back because of how many things it doesn't hit, but maybe I need to do the right thing and just test it, again. Maybe a couple could be good, if I find some room.
I don't understand where you're getting the vast majority of this information from. Out of all the cards you've mentioned above, the only card I'm playing is Dispel in the sideboard. And you're saying that there are no hard counters below CMC 3, but that's completely ignoring the 4-of Nullify and Negate/Gainsay between the main and board. Why don't you trust Nullify? It answers just about every threat in the format but planeswalkers, Mutavault, and the small handful of uncounterable creatures. And you also just failed to mention Syncopate, too. What's the deal?
No offense taken. There are a couple of reasons for playing such a small number of win conditions. First of all, I'm playing this deck on MTGO. I have no plans to play offline tournaments with it, so I will only be using the deck in games with a chess clock. I also happen to play very quickly. So because I'm playing quickly, and because I'm able to think on my opponent's time (due to the draw-go system), I don't even come close to timing out of matches, even in control mirrors. So to me, there is no downside to winning on turn 46. Winning on turn 46 is still winning. If this was offline, I'd probably play a second Aetherling main because games are not played with a chess clock. But online, there's no issue with that. It's not like you're going to deck with a Bow of Nylea in there to put cards on the bottom.
Really, I'd like another couple of win conditions so that I don't lose to things like Counterflux or Slaughter Games. Other than that, I don't really care. My gameplan is not trying to stall out while I wait for Aetherling; my gameplan is to put mana on the table and constantly trade my cards for my opponent's threats while I produce card advantage from draw spells. Get ahead, trade. Get ahead, trade. It shouldn't matter what you win with; it's academic when you've reached the late-game. All that matters is stabilizing and then maintaining position.
As far as doing the same thing all the time...I don't see a problem with that; I see only consistency. Nobody looks at a burn deck and says "you have too many things that do the same thing" because that redundancy gives it strength. Nobody looks at Elfball decks and has a problem with two many creatures and not enough non-creature spells. Right?
It's good to see you on the forums again, too. And yeah...that Grixis thread is a total mess. I wish people who think Izzet Charm is card advantage would just move to an island and form a leper colony.
It's not actually a "toolbox" unless you have a tutor system in place to find a specific answer when you need it. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of 2-ofs. That can be fine in its own right, but it's not like you can just use telepathy to tell your deck to deliver a 2-outer at will. So if you play the Disciple or some other tutor system, it's a toolbox. If not, well...you get the idea.
I concur with this; I really like Notion Thief but it's a horrible time to run the card. It's not a good blocker, and it's really hard to justify that creature as an offensive threat or anti-planeswalker clock when almost everyone is playing Mutavaults. And it's not hard to kill, either. I'm with TOG on this one: if you can make Dictate work on its own, then play the Dictate. It's already a flash Howling Mine that benefits you first.
__________________________________
On another note, does anyone have thoughts about Worst Fears? I'm talking about it as a sideboard card for control mirrors. It happens to be an answer to a resolved Aetherling.
Also about Aetherling, I showed a friend of mine your decklist and he very vocally pointed out that if a pithing needle resolves naming Aetherling, you'd likely lose those games post sideboard due to not having any way to remove one from play. That in itself was another reason I pointed out Abrupt Decay and Putrefy. But use of those two cards are likely going to be influenced by the online metagame.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10332184&postcount=124
I have little else to report other than that trading post land isn't too great. It requires a lot of action for little to no reward. D-sphere and banishing light are nightmares for permanent based control.
Yeah, the combo works, but only when I drop it. It's starting to look a little slow, and gets easily broken with the theif getting killed, and then they just get more answers to my stuff. I'm still gonna test it further, but today wasn't a great day for Notion Thief. Seems like his best play is to net you some serious cards off a Sphinx Rev or something.
What I'm referring to as a hard counter, is things that say "Counter Target Spell" without saying "unless", barring a Mana Leak reprint in M15, which I doubt will happen. That being said, without having an early Counterspell that can target anything, it seems like aggro can pace you easily. Nullify requiring 2 blue plus restictions, I'd rather have a Negate and Essence Scatter. You can't tap an island and a Mutavault to cast Nullify. That may seem like a small problem, but the color intensity like that on a two drop, in my experience testing the card, was too much for me. I didn't name Syncopate, because while it's not Mana Leak, it's still good enough permission to include, so I have no complaints about it, even though it does have the "unless". With unless being x and the end result exiling, it's enough value, and usually isn't a dead card. Usually. Having a Permission build that doesn't have a lot of solid answers for Mutavault, Planeswalkers, and Mistcutter/Skylasher kind of creatures could turn into a big problem, especially without having a way to reuse spells as efficiently like Snapcaster did. All that being said, I understand that my assessment could be completely wrong, and if so I'd be happy to admit that, as well as try this type of build out.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Ok, first off, I have tested Nullify in my build.
Second, I did say syncopate is good. Usually means, like with all cards, there are situations it's not aplicable, like when someone has enough mana to pay your x. It's still good.
Third, I didn't say anything negative about you're build, admitted my consensus could be way off base and that I am willing to try something like your permission build, as it is something I do like to play, so I don't know what in the world you are being this rude for. If I need to clarify where I think you're being rude, "shoot yourself in the foot" after apparently misreading my entire post assuming I think syncopate is bad, which I said the exact opposite. Nullify didn't work in MY build, answering your question as to why I don't trust it in MY build. And MOST of all I wasn't debating anything in your build at all in the first place. I said I want to run something like that, I just don't think it will work for me, but if it proves solid for you, I want to know. Wow, dude.
Please let me know where I am going wrong here, because I honestly thought the message I was sending you was an explination of why I'm not using things like that, that I could, and would love to, be wrong about this, and most of all would like to try it. Please, because I can't wrap my head around your reaction, and yes, I'm taking it kind of personal.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I added putrefy and I found the inclusion to be great for unconditional killing of creatures and for taking out whip and random pithing needles. Abrupt Decay out of the side performed beyond expectations, as did font and opportunity in the main. I like nullify for it's cheap cost but a couple of times I was caught out by planeswalkers and whip of erebos. I know the online meta is different from playing on cardboard but I have a strong need for a second and third win con. I'm going to try out death-rite shaman for being a cheap and disruptive win con out of the side that also doubles as graveyard hate. It was also suggested to me to give Jace, Memory Adept a try also. Overall I do like the deck and what it does very well.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10332184&postcount=124
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10332184&postcount=124
What do you guys think?
4 Temple of Deceit
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Watery Grave
8 Island
7 Swamp
Creatures (6)
4 Pack Rat
2 Prognostic Sphinx
Instants (21)
2 Bile Blight
2 Far // Away
3 Syncopate
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Psychic Strike
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Silence the Believers
2 Devour
2 Opportunity
2 Font of Fortunes
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Artifacts (2)
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Dispel
2 Negate
3 Duress
1 Aetherling
2 Pithing Needle
Number of Players: 14
Position: 5
4 Rounds: Loss; Won; Won; Draw
First Game:
I've controlled the match pretty well, but Pack Rats and Dreadbore helped my oppo to control the board better than i could, and in the end fired at me Helixes, Magma jets, and boros charms... Burned out
Second Game: I've sided in 2x Dimir Charms, and 2x Bile Blight - Out: Silence the believers, 1x Far Away, 1x Dissolve, and 1x Hero's Downfall. He sided in 9 cards (Rakdos Return, Slaughter Games, Thoughtseizes and other stuff)
I've being able to control the match perfectly, and even when he casted Slaughter Games calling for Dissolve, i had Syncopate in my hand, and tons of removal. Ashiok revealed and played a Blod Baron Of Vizkopa, and that was gg, but we ran out of time and so the match ended 1-0 for him, but if we had continued, i would have won...
1-0
Second Match: Simic (Aggro/Midrange)
Well, it was a strange deck with Experiment One, Cloudfin Raptor, Nylea god and bow, Prophets, Kiora... First time that i see this kind of Simic...
First Game: I let him resolve a bow, 1 Raptor. The rest have been countered, or removed, and Ashiok + Jace controlled the board. A Late game Aetherling ended the game. Pretty easy i'd say...
Second Game: In: Doom Blade 3x- Dimir Charm 1x - Bile Blight 2x Out: 2x Devour Flesh - 1x Inspiration - 1x Far Away -2x Devour Flesh - 1x Dissolve
He had 3x Experiment One and 1x Cloudfin Raptor on the first turn. I was scared, but a Bile Blight saved my ass, and Jace stopped his aggro plan. I let him play a Bow, but i wasn't expecting a Savage Summoning on Nylea 2 turns later honestly... Then he devoted with one Prophet in his turn, but Silence the believers at 7 ruined his plans. Ashiok won the game.
2-0
3rd Match: WB Humans.
The player was unskilled, maybe he started a few ago, dunno... The deck anyway was the standard BW Humans running Atreo, Xatrid and so on...
1st Game: 3rd turn Ashiok i've casted half of his deck while he flooded, and his mutavault could nothing against Captain of Precinct
2nd Game: He haven't even sided in anything D:... In 2x Dimir Charm - 2x Bile Blight. Out: 1 Inspiration - 1 Far/Away - 1x Dissolve - 1x Devour Flesh.
He mulled to 5. Don't remember that much, just that Ashiok 3rd turn, and Jace 4th made the game... Pretty disappointed from this match D:
4th Match: UW Ephara Aggro.
This match compensated the previous one: Skilled Player with a good deck. He ran Ephara, Brimaz, Captains...
First Game: I've been stupid, and i wasn't expecting a 4th turn Ephara, so i tapped out for Ashiok, and she ruined the entire game. Not much to say.
Second Game: Sided in: 3x Doom Blade, 2x Dimir Charm - Out: 1x Dissolve - 1x Inspiration - 1x Silence the believers - 1x Far Away - 1x Devour Flesh.
This time i've been much more careful, and i've controlled the game easily. Ashiok provided me an Ephara and Brimaz, and that was enough to close the game.
3rd Game: time ended, and so was a draw, but i wanted to play the 3rd game, just to see if i've been lucky, or the deck is good enough to manage Ephara Aggro. This time was thoughter than before, but again a late game Ashiok made the difference, well protected by my removals. A solved Opportunity was gg. 2-1
Considerations:
I love the deck. It has its weaknesses, but i feel always well protected.
Cards that surprised me most:
1) Opportunity = A solved one is gg for real. Tell me whatever u want about Sphinx's Reve, but opportunity replaces it really well. 3x is enough, not less, and no more.
2) Dimir Charm = I've played it most for the third effect than the second one (Vanishing the scry 2 of a Magma Jet, Ruining the top deck of UW aggro...), but it also removed a lot of threats like Captains, Prophets, and Mutavaults... Awesome... i'm thinking to play it main,but just for a meta call
3)Silence The Believers = Saved me from a raging Nylea. Playing it 1x becomes a strong late game removal.
4)Encroaching Wastes = This is controversial, and i've never used its ability in tournament, but in other matches have broken Nykthos many times. I love it and 2x is ok!
Cards that disappointed me:
Inspiration = Two cards are not enough for 4 manas. I won't go for Divination, but i really hope M15 will bring a better draw spell.
Dimir Guildgate = I think i'll replace it with mana Conflux. 4 Cipt lands with my bad luck are more than enough. Tell me whatever you want about mana loss vs cipt, but i thought a lot about this, and i've ended up that if i could, i'd play 6 shocklands rather than 4+2guildgates.
Pithing Needle = I've never sided in, so i'm asking... do i really need it? with 14 players just one GR Monsters...
This is the decklist i'm running:
4x Watery Grave
4x Temple Of Deceit
2x Encroaching Wastes
2x Dimir Guildgate
6x Swamp
7x Island
Removals (12)
3x Far//Away
4x Devour Flesh
4x Hero's Downfall
1x Silence The Believers
4x Dissolve
4x Syncopate
Disruption (2)
2x Thoughtseize
Draw Package (9)
3x Opportunity
4x Jace Architect Of Thought
2x Inspiration
Finisher (4)
3x Ashiok
1x Aetherling
3x Pithing Needle
2x Bile Blight
3x Doom Blade
2x Dimir Charm
2x Dark Betrayal
3x Duress
or I'll change it for you."
________________________________________
° D E C K °
Format: T1.5
- MONOBLACK CONTROL -
B.o0°*'"H"I"R"'*°0o.B
Format: Standard
- CONTROL -
UBR EOTSAYLUBR
Format: Modern
- CONTROL -
UBR CRUEL CONTROLUBR
Here's the deck. No sideboard yet. Meta is about 50% UWx control, 80% RW Burn, 10% random brews that aren't really "Tier"
4 Temple of Deceit
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Notion Thief
3 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Far // Away
1 Devour Flesh
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Trading Post
7 Island
8 Swamp
4 Thoughtseize
2 Brain Maggot
3 Syncopate
4 Dissolve
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 AEtherling
2 Negate
2 Cyclonic Rift
I get ya, it's messing with your late game curve. Makes sense.
So how were your results? My list is a similar to this, however I'm still splashing white for a few cards. I like the build over all.
So here are some thoughts on current standard: Feast of Dreams hits a lot of things so I'm trying it MB. Mixed results. Disciple of Deceit is far to slow for me, I'm going back to Omenspeaker. Silence the Believers looks really good as a 1-of, my only problem is the 4 cmc. Test in the near future. Doom Blade seems to have way more targets now than it did a few months ago, while Ultimate Price has a little less. Switching back to Doom Blade MB, Dark Betrayal SB. I have seen situations where an Extinguish All Hope may be worth 2 sibeboard slots, to side out Merciless Eviction. Test in the near future. I really wish we had a Black or UB Wrath effect for less than 6cmc. Tons of times I want to blow up the board at that point and I'm stuck with a 6cmc Sweeper or Cclonic Rift, Verdict is anticipated be Boros Charm, Golgari Charm, and Rootborn Defenses which turns a G2 Verdict into a waste of 4 mana, a 6cmc Wipe with a Negate or Dispel to back it up, and/or usually a game loss. Further more, I'm not trying to run Esper. Any other thoughts on some of the newer cards?
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
My results were 2-1-1
Won against MBD and simic aggro deck. Loss against Gruul monsters. Drew against UW control due to running out of time.
I really wish we had a decent sweeper. The only similar things we have are: Silence the believers, cyclonic rift and extinguish all hope. I think Silence and cyclonic are great but only 1-2 of and I cannot see extinguish all hope being viable in this meta. Feast of dreams is interesting I might find room for it in the side. Get rid of the white Nate, come back to the true colours!!
I really wanted to add thoughtseize, so here is my updated decklist:
I added in the Soul ransom for testing, I really want it to work. If it fails I will probably +1 far // away or pack rat
4x temple of deceit
4x waterygrave
2x dimir guildgate
8x island
7x swamp
Creatures
3x Pack rat
3x Prognostic Sphinx
Instants
2x Far // away
1x silence the believers
3x syncopate
3x psychic strike
1x cyclonic rift
3x heros downfall
2x devour flesh
2x ratchet bomb
1x Soul Ransom
Planeswalkers
2x Ashiok, nightmare weaver
4x Jace, architect of thought
Sorcery
3x Thoughtseize
3x drown in sorrow
2x gainsay
2x pithing needle
1x bile blight
1x aetherling
2x duress
2x dark betrayal
I'm really ok with the white spalash. Flavorfully, it's like Dimir Mind Controlling something White to do our bidding. ACtually, it was a competative choice. However, should it prove worthy, we have ourselves a beautiful little card called Perilous Vault dropping into Standard in about a month. It's an exiling Oblivion Stone, which is a complete hoss for removal in modern.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I was drooling over that card, its perfect for us! I am going to struggle squeezing it in my MB though : / Not sure what to take out. Perhaps I will sideboard the rats...
I went 3-1 last friday with the deck from my last post. Only difference is the sideboard:
3x Drown in sorrow
1x gainsay
1x pithing needle
3x lifebane zombie
1x aetherling
1x jace, memory adept
2x doom blade
1x bile blight
1x dark betrayal
1x thoughtseize
WON AGAINST: Myself (had a bye), populate deck, Grixis Control
LOST AGAINST: Some mono red home brew thing. It was too fast. I managed to stabilize game one on 3 health, (woo go sphinxes!!) however I got axed the other 2 games. I made the mistake of adding 3x Drown in sorrow from the side, which didnt do much.
Here are some thoughts of cards:
Font of fortunes Love this damn card, I reckon its the best low cost draw card we have! I like its play style
Prognostic Sphinx aka the stabilizer. This guy is the bridge to victory. Some people forget about the discard a card for hexproof which is awesome, but Ive had some people try and bait with it. (Used ultimate price to force me to discard a card, then he fired off a devour flesh Scry 3 is beautiful
Psychic strike I prefer this to dissolve. Easier to cast and the mill for 2 is kinda nice. I run a playset of this and 2x Syncopate. I love synco but I've found having 3 is too many. There was quite a few times where I would draw it late game and it would be useless.
Bile blight Not really that keen on it anymore, Ratchet bomb solved all my token / multi-creature removal. I don't think I sided it in once.
Cyclonic rift Loving the one-of. This card has saved my ass in so many tight spots.
silence the believers Awesome one-of. The ability to 'kick' it has proven useful. I think its too many intensive to put multiple copies.
However, with AEtherspouts spoiled, I'm pretty sure I can go back to Straight UB. YAY!!!! Also, works awesome with Ashiok, btw.
Although Slower, it still exiles, looks like something for ratchet bomb, hopefully there are enough artifacts we can use to warrant 4x Typhoid Rats, 4x Omenspeaker, and 4x Chief Engineer. Vault and [c]Soul of Phyrexia look great on paper. I reeeaaalllyyyyy enjoy Shoota Yasuka's Tezzeret Control Lists back in Scars Standard.
Solid standing, good looking sideboard.
Yup, love it. Pay up front, and crack at instant speed later convinced me to replace Divination, especially since it can easily help you hit land drops earlier.
Yeah, I mainly run Dissolve since I'm not very Counterspell heavy in the main, and I really love to abuse the hell out of digging in my Library. Syncopate is something I haven't ran, but probably should have, especially since I've lost a ton of games to Chandra's Phoenix.
I can see that being a meta choice, if you aren't getting the use out of it to hit multiple creatures or something with indestructible(needing at least 2 for a God thats turned on) I can see running something else in that slot. Works for me though. I WILL be getting a playset of the promos from FNMs.
Yup, good thing when it rolls, we have at least 2 mass bounce spells still. Arguably better in the meta, as the mana cost is much cheaper than overload.
I haven't gotten to use it yet, only because I didn't draw it when I boarded it in, but yeah, agreed wholeheartedly.
Also, Stain the Mind seems like a 2 of if ytou run creature heavy enough, and it's starting to look like we may be able to run a more creature based control, and may have to, to fight what I'm guessing as more heavy aggro with KTK coming in and getting some really goodw use out of Convoke. Also, imagine this, Turn 1 Typhoid Rats, Turn 2 Omenspeaker, Returned Phalanx, or Black CatTurn 3 Ashiok exile 3 Loy. 5, Turn 4 The Chain Veil, Exile 3 loyalty 7, Turn 5 Ex1le the top 6, Loyalty 9, Opponents Turn Aetherspouts, Turn 6 Exile 3 + Opponents Hand and Graveyard. After that, Ashiok starts dumping out creatures and you win, rofl. I know it would take killer draws, basically a stacked deck. But yeah, seriously good stuff.
EDIT: Almost forgot, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth......yeah, all our Islands are belong to Underground Seas. If there's a "Artifacts Matter" Card that will help, Darksteel Citadel is a card to keep in mind. ARtifact land and tapping it for a ? Thing could get silly. :Croesses fingers for Neurok Familiar:
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I think I will def. chuck some M15 cards into my current deck when it gets released, im thinking:
2-3 perilous vault Ive got high hopes for this card.
3-4 AEtherspouts ( I keep thinking it says Aethersprouts lol)
2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
What are you thinking about adding to your current deck while we wait for KIK to be released?
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Each would do a rather interesting thing in UB Control builds.
My only concern is ever being able to move to draw step with Skulker.
Jace's Ingenuity is also fantastic. The difference between 5 and 6 mana is pretty big in this format.
Radiant Fountain seems like it could take Mutavault's slots after rotation, with Urborg on the field, it pays both mana and life for Thoughtseize.
Jace's Ingenuity is a great hand filler, but I don't know how well it will work. Those here that run Opportunity, will probably have ingenuity as an auto include at rotation. I may nee to start going more creature heavy or more draw heavy in my build, since my LGS is starting to meta against me. I'm not sure if I'd rather have AEtherspouts in my hand at that point.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
3 Perilous Vault
Creatures (3)
3 Aetherling
Instants (20)
4 Syncopate
4 Devour Flesh
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Dissolve
4 Jace's Ingenuity
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Sorcery (4)
4 Thoughtseize
Lands (26)
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Watery Grave
7 Swamp
7 Island
4 Duress
4 Ratchet Bomb
7 ???