I wanted to share a deck I’ve been brewing for a while now with the community. I finally had an opportunity to test its metal at FNM on October 4th and went 5/0 without dropping a single game (2/0 every opponent).
I’ll provide my decklist, then I’ll provide some commentary about strategy. I will follow up that commentary with some commentary on card choices.
This is obviously a control build where the general idea is to remove creature threats and counter non-creature threats until you can either land a Jace, Ashiok or Desecration Demon. Jace puts you squarely on the mill plan. Ashiok puts you on the mill plan but supplements that strategy by giving you the opportunity to switch to an agro plan if you exile a valuable creature and have the loyalty to cast, Desecration Demon and Phalanx obviously puts you on the agro plan.
Why does this strategy work?
With a relatively young Standard meta game the go-to strategy for many players is big high-quality creatures (Selesnya Midrange, BWR Midrange, etc.). Many players, with an understanding of that meta, attempt to outrace those strategies with fast decks like RDW or out-control those strategies with Supreme Verdict + Sphinx’s Revelation. This deck is designed to deal with all three of those strategies.
Why does this strategy work against midrange builds?
By packing 12 spot removal cards maindeck the big nasty threats your opponent is counting on to win the game just won’t stick. Sure, he can start swinging in with his mana dorks but a single Returned Phalanx will out race that strategy. Instant-speed spot removal will also pop the very popular Obzedat, Ghost Council. Any midrange deck is gonna pack an Elspeth or Garruk so the Hero’s Downfall or Thoutseize should neutralize that threat easily. Many midrange builds are three colors so, with a two-color manabase, you should have slightly more consistency and a slight speed advantage.
Why does this strategy work against agro builds?
Again, the 12 spot removal cards will prevent your opponent from building up enough momentum to end the game before you get your win conditions online. The Returned Phalanx make the prospect of swinging in without a Ghor-clan Rampager or other instant-speed pump in-hand a losing strategy. Even with an instant-speed pump all the instant-speed removal puts the agro deck in a position to get 2-for-1ed.
Why does this strategy work against control builds?
Control builds run Supreme Verdict which basically becomes an expensive sorcery speed spot removal against you. Control builds run Sphinx’s Revelation which should be a target for one of your 6 counterspells. Control builds like to cast Aetherling when they have 7 mana. With 2 removal spells in hand, you crush your opponents nastiest agro threat. You run Ashiok who, if not targeted by Detention Sphere immediately, can quickly garner card advantage. You run Jace who, because of Ashiok, Psychic Strike, and your opponents own Sphinx’s Revelation, should outrace your opponents Jace. Lastly, you are two colors and many control players run Esper builds which should give you mana consistency and speed advantage.
Why Returned Phalanx and not Omenspeaker?
While Omenspeaker seems like the logical replacement for Augur of Bolas, I disagree. I think the 3 power on-board narrowly outweighs the ability to scry. A 1/3 body rarely costs an agro deck a creature when he swings in, which means, after he lands two or more creatures, he’s just swinging into you. A 3/3 creature almost always costs your opponent a creature. What’s more, after the board is clear and your opponent is staring at an empty hand, if your 3/3 survived the ordeal he can start swinging in for damage.
Why Desecration Demon and not Aetherling?
Simple answer; Aetherling is too expensive. Aetherling is a fantastic creature when you’re running 26 or 27 lands. In a deck that runs 24 lands, Aetherling is a card choice for players who enjoy staring at their Aetherling in-hand while they lose the game. With so much spot removal Desecration Demon has very little downside.
Why Psychic Strike and not Dissolve?
Consistency and synergy. The 2 mill cards with Psychic Strike don’t seem significant, but they are. What’s more, the mana base is slightly more likely to have 1 black and 1 blue source in play than 2 blue sources. Being able to cast a counter when you need it on turn 3 can mean the game.
Why Reap Intellect… I don’t even…?
This is a personal choice. Two or more takes away from the consistency of the deck but a one-of Reap Intellect can simply gut your opponent’s deck of all win conditions. Usually you’re casting it for 2 and, at best, 3 but when you do you almost always hits something fantastic. Of course you board it out in the agro match up but against midrange and control, you are hitting Elspeths and Garruks and Aetherlings and Obzedats. A smart opponent is going to hold his threat and play spells to draw out your countermagic or wait until you tap out before landing his win condition. When you tap out to empty his hand suddenly his entire plan lies in ruin and he can’t even hope to top-deck a new win condition because that’s gone too. It’s a just plain nasty and I like it.
Why Pithing Needle in the sideboard?
In a meta with arguably 8+ playable plainswalkers, aetherlings, and indestructible gods I think it is insane to run any less than 2 Pithing Needles in the sideboard. Just my opinion.
I understand Dark Betrayal but Agoraphobia?
Agoraphobia is in the sideboard to pad your removal in agro match up as well as provide an answer outside of Far/Away for Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
FNM Matchups
Match 1 – Boros Agro:
This deck appeared to run like Red Deck Wins with white for Gods Willing, Soldier of the Pantheon, Spear of Heliod, Ajani, Caller of the Pride and Boros Charm. During game two my opponent was on tilt because of all my removal game one. I attacked his Ajani with a Phalanx on an empty board and he cast Boros Charm to make his permanents indestructible… which did not have the result he had hoped for. He then landed a Boros Reckoner and suited it up with two Madcap Skills. When he swung in, I cast Away, to which he responded with Gods Willing… which ALSO did not have the result he had hoped for. The guys isn’t a bad player, he was just on tilt and allowed his anger to get in the way of rational choices.
Match 2 – Mono Black Devotion Brew:
This deck was a brew that highly tuned to meta speculation. The player ran Aristocrats prior to rotation and is pretty solid. With mountains of black removal my opponent simply found himself staring at a large number of useless cards against me. At one point my Ashiok exiled the black god from his deck, which I then took (remember the gods are creatures until they hit the battlefield) and he spent the rest of the game trying to keep me off devotion to black while Ashiok just milled him out.
Match 3 – Mono White Heroic Brew:
This matchup went much like the Match 1. My opponent was about 12 or 13 years old and, at one point I exiled 3 Phalanx Leaders with Ashiok. A 4th Phalanx Leader was in my opponent’s graveyard so, when he landed his fifthPhalanx leader I called the judge. I was fairly certain the illegal deck was the result of carelessness and not intentional cheating (who is going to intentionally run five cards and actually cast the fifth card after four previous versions of that card have entered play in some way?). The judge gave him a very long and stern lecture about how his two previous opponents lost to an illegal deck. Because it was FNM REL the judge issued a warning and ruled that the illegal card be replaced with a Plains but stated that if he ever caught the player with an illegal deck again he would issue game losses.
Match 4 – WBR Midrange:
This is the WBR deck that is currently making the rounds on high-profile tournaments. The player who ran this deck won top 8 in two SCG events over the course of his career. I consider him among the top 5 best players in my LGS. The games were hard fought. I’d land an Ashiok and he would Dreadbore it. He would land an Obzedat and I would Hero’s Downfall it. Eventually the game stalled with a Desecration Demon with one counter and an Ashiok on my side and a Desecration Demon and Obzedat on his side. I eventually built enough loyalty to Snag my own Obzedat from my opponents exiled cards (side note, if you exile a stolen Obzedat your opponent will gain control of him when he returns to the battlefield so don’t do it). I Ultimate Priceed his Desecration Demon and Awayed his Obzedat. He hung on for a very long time after that but eventually I took game one down. Game two my opponent kept a slow hand. I landed and Ashiok and hit nothing but money every time I used his + ability. I then landed a Jace and hit even more money with Jace’s 0. My opponent counted his win conditions in exile and in his graveyard and scooped.
Match 5 – Esper Control:
Another long and slow match. As I theorized, my two-color build had much more consistency than my opponents three-color build. I resolved Ashiok and protected him with countermagic and took down game 1. Game 2 was much the same deal with a little bit of back and forth with a Notion Theif vs a Sin Collector but eventually I Reap Intellected all his Aetherlings and there wasn’t any way for him to win.
How come the deck doesn't play Jace, Architect of Thought? Good draw spells besides Sphinx's Revelation are scarce enough as it is, so why not the best one this colour combination (UB) has to offer?
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
I think the card choices I have in my build that are different are mostly personal choice - Read the Bones over Opportunity for example.
I agree that Read the Bones over Opportunity is probably an issue of pure choice. I think it probably comes down to a meta call. If you’re meta is agro heavy than Opportunity might be the preferable choice but if your meta is midrange or control heavy than Read the Bones may be the better option.
1 - Frostburn Weird over Phalanx as it can't be burned out by a lot of removal and can take out x/4's.
In this current build that I run, I prefer Phalanx because I can’t often afford the mana sink to boost power on my opponents combat phase and not have the mana open for a counter (even if I’m bluffing). Likewise, by build is slightly black-heavy which makes the UU cost potentially problematic on turn 2. On blue heavy builds and builds that run a 25 or 26 mana I can definitely see Frostburn Weird being superior.
I theorized that there would be a ton of Fleecemane Lions and Call of the Conclave out there in this new meta.I wanted to be able to trade with my opponents early threat without sinking mana. I can’t say that I have yet run into a turn 2 Call of the Conclave or Fleecemane Lion yet so I’m not sure if it’s something to build for.
2 - Finisher suite - I'm playing 8 dudes, 4 Frostburn Weird, 2 Aetherling, 1 Prognostic Sphinx and 1 Thrassa. Which I think gives a better range of options (similar to the old Psychatog decks which this reminds me a lot of)
I do feel that Aetherling and Thrassa may be better in a blue-heavy build. My concern with Thrassa is that often you may need a blocker when you do not have the devotion to make her a creature. It’s only one card – and it is a 3-drop, but might it be better to develop solutions to run her as a 2-of alongside cards that trigger devotion (Agoraphobia? Nightveil Specter?). Definitely a deck dynamic that is open for discussion.
3 - Psychic Intrusion is actually pretty powerful especially after some removal spells or EoT Far/Away. Remember it snags any card in the graveyard or hand.
My problem with Psychic Intrusion is twofold – first, it’s sorcery speed which means there’s a good chance you’re tapping yourself out an risking that your opponent does not have a second threat in-hand or will not top deck a second threat on his turn. Second, unlike Ashiok, you have to spend your own mana to cast the exiled card which doesn’t seem that great to me – 5 mana to pull a threat out of your opponents hand and another X mana to put that threat on your board under your control. I feel like that is an inefficient use of resources but I’m open to being convinced.
How come the deck doesn't play Jace, Architect of Thought? Good draw spells besides Sphinx's Revelation are scarce enough as it is, so why not the best one this colour combination (UB) has to offer?
Honestly, I am of the opinion that Jace, Memory Adept is a usually a better card than Jace, Architect of Thought. Memory Adept gives you a card if you +1 him and puts him out of range of Warleader’s Helix. Architect of Thought gives you the best of 3 cards but on the turn he lands but then dies to shock. Memory Adept directly contributes to your win condition with his 0 ability. Architect of Thought only slows your opponent down a bit with his +1 ability.
I was considering a deck very similar though i built a ww deck waiting for some cards to arrive, that said how do you guys feel about pilfered plans for card draw, i mean it seems viable 1bu to draw two and mill two seems ok or is it just that?
Maybe Incarna have other idea but seems more on the draw-go route 1-for-1ing opponents with counter/remouval until stabilize and then start dropping bombs.
In this list seems bad because already Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is at cmc 3.
Now i don't want to put this words inside Incarna's mouth, please correct me if i'm wrong.
Probably, in a more tap out list, pilfered plans can be a good card but you must build around it.
I’m not the boss of this thread. Everyone is free to give their input :). I agree with you 100%.
With limited exception, my general thought is that sorcery-speed card draw that does nothing else and costs mana is almost never good (plainswalker’s excluded). The 2-card mill via Psychic Strike is synergistic, but it is also incidental to the fact that Psychic Strike is simply easier to cast over cards like Dissolve in a deck that has a primarily black manabase. If I were looking for cheaper card draw I would almost definitely consider Read the Bones over Pilfered Plans. Read the Bones gives you the same card draw for the mana cost of Pilfered Plans but also lets you fix your draw... which I consider far superior to milling your opponent 3.33% of his deck.
Creatures: 1-Aetherling Spells: 1-Jace, Memory Adept 4-Jace, Architect of thought 4-Ashiok, nightmare weaver 4-Far//Away 3-Hero's Downfall 1 Devour Flesh
So far with minimal testing it feels amazing. Destroys esper. Has a 50% against RDW so far and 2-0 against Naya. That kinda covers all 3 spectrums of decks imo so its a good signal. We will be playtesting more but that feels really solid so far.
It'll save you a lot of "counter or removal" grief.
I havent really had a problem playing divination really. Because if I want to play a removal spell then thats what I want to do. I rarely play a turn 3 divination. Its more or less a turn 5+ divination.
I think UB has a fighting chance this meta. I've been flip flopping back and forth between it and Grixis, primarily because of AotG is awesome in my current meta. However, I really like the original list and logical breakdown of cards used and actually being able to implement Ashiok into the deck strategy.
Returned Phalanx is better than I thought, I do like FB weird due to AotG immunity. How has omen speaker been working for anyone?
Also been thinking about Cyclonic Rift, because what's the plan for something we really needed to counter but just couldn't?
Deck I have been brewing for the past couple of days. Originally I was running a BUG Control list but at times I found it inconsistent due to mana. Thinking of taking this to states, thoughts?
Deck I have been brewing for the past couple of days. Originally I was running a BUG Control list but at times I found it inconsistent due to mana. Thinking of taking this to states, thoughts?
I played grixis last season and now switching to control and control.
Now i want to test both and decide... Returned Phalanx and frostburn weird fit perfectly in and control decks because they slow down aggro and take care of opponent's life against other control. omenspeaker can be useful but now we can't abuse of this ability...
In my opinion is just a ok card, maybe in future can be better, but now i prefer Returned Phalanx/frostburn weird
on Cyclonic Rift: usually i play it like a 1-of because is really good against creature but non really good against artifact or enchantment.
The only way we have is use counter or bounce ---> counter.
And in the long run overload it is (usually) game breaking.
Totally agree with you
I like your deck a lot but every time i see a Ux control deck i find only Aetherling + Jace, Memory Adept in the finisher role.
Both are really really good, don't let me wrong, but now i put some pithing needle Sb and control matchup are a lot easier ...
Before i was sceptical but Prognostic Sphinx can be very useful because of this discard/hexproof ability and scry 3 paired with some draw engine can close game really quick.
Similar is the DD question, if you can destroy every opponent creature you have no drawback and a 6/6 fly at cost 2BB is really good.
I usually diversify the finisher suite because i love find new solution.
Last season i played grixis with nicol bolas, planeswalker
Nobody expect it in my metagame and sooooo many are fallen against it
Pithing needle is a thing. But that gives them 3 things to needle. and we can always cyclonic rift the needle to counter it when they replay it.
Im actualying of thinking of cutting the AEtherling because I have yet to cast it, nor have I ever needed it to close a game. Ashiok does a damn good job of doing that.
So here is the changes i made to my list
-1 Aetherling
-1 Divination
-1 Opportunity
+1 Jace, Memory Adept
+2 Inspiration
Opportunity was sitting in my hand so many times where as inspiration wouldnt have been.
EDIT:
Also you only see them with those win conditions yet they still keep winning.
I seem to have some good results against rdw playing a 3/3 split of frostburn weird and returned phalanx. So far this seems to be favourable match up for us in this context. Btw i play 2 aertherling and opportunity and used them both. I pretty much play blockers and save my counter for the fanatic of mogis and that seems to guarantee survival past t4. Far and away then takes the rest. How much testing has been done vs midrange ? Any definitive results?
Although I'm heavily testing a U/B Cipher shell with Hidden Strings and Agent of Fates, here are a few findings I think are relevant to all of you.
Phalanx Returned, and sadly enough Omenspeaker; are not enough. Omenspeaker in particular was a heartbreaker because I loved its scry ability but 3 toughness is just not enough to stop aggro decks in these days. You need 4 to be defensive. You need Frostburn Weird because little else is enough. I said I main Agent of Fates, and I managed to go from Weird to AoF by adding 2/3 Blood Crypts and going easy on the Nykthos/Mutavaults. In fact, I don't think Nykthos/Mutavaults are particularly important in U/B control. Maybe none is the correct number.
Desecration Demon is a great beast but not a finisher in itself because too many things shut it off. Particularly the pure draw advantage of Planeswalkers. DD is an undercosted creature who's disadvantage is that all enemy card shut him off, temporarily or otherwise. A battle against a Domri player was particularly heartbreaking because he just kept drawing creatures, casting creatures, saccing creatures; all the while raising loyalty points and ultimating. I think he needs a solid discard strategy/PW hate plan to stay relevant. Certainly needs Hero's Demise.
I want to like Dumbledore but I just don't see him as a game closer. My testing with him was limited, but it all boils down to "their bombs beats our bomb". On the other hand, I can certainly see why Dumbledore is inciting; my biggest problem in U/B was in finding a right proper game ender. I just don't see that in the moment, and Aetherling is AFAIK our best bet.
Keep posting, I'll keep reading.
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Bringing Turbo-Hydra back to Standard...
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
Shota Yasooka's list from PT Theros is where I have started.
Seems pretty good, using Master of Waves as a mini Grave Titan I suppose. I have been liking it, and it actually is not all that bad against RDW either surprisingly.
Not quite sure how I feel about the complete lack of Aetherling or Far//Away in the 75. I dislike Pithing Needle as a card in general and personally feel Claustrophobia is better than Wall of Frost going forward.
But all in all pretty solid deck.
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Have you considered consuming aberration? Seems pretty good in the mill version you have going on. Turn 5 cast aberration. Turn 6 cast jace trigger aberrations mill, then jace 0. Turn 6 he's likely to be at least a 15/15
I wanted to share my list in hopes of getting some more opinions on it or get some discussion going about certain cards.
I'm shocked to say the least, but in my testing on cockatrice i'm undefeated from about 12 matches(small results to pull from overall, but still holds some merit) with various users playing decks ranging from Mono Red, Naya, GR Devotion, U devotion, Esper, and BW Midrange. At worst I would say i'm at a good starting point.
The deck looks pretty straight-forward. probably the 2 biggest things i'm doing that are different is using Jace, Memory Adept as my Alternate Win con, and using Dimir Charm.
Jace, Memory Adept: If you remember last season he was a house and this season is no different. I added him as an extra card drawer since i don't have Azorious Charm to cantrip, and i feel light playing only 9 cards that draw. He also finishes the game fairly quickly. I had also initially considered Prognostic Sphinx in this spot.
Dimir Charm: This was just a dumb idea i wanted to try out, but it's been working above my expectation. there are A LOT of <=2 power creatures in this format which makes it Doom Blade 9-12 against most aggro/Devotion matches (the problem area for this Archetype). Against midrange you're using Dimir Charm as a counterspell for their Disruption(Thoughtseize, Rakdos's Return) and Card Advantage (Read the Bones). Against Control you're kind of waiting until you are ahead to really use it to full power for example if their behind on say land drops you can keep it that way.
Adept is fine in the board, fantastic even, but both Jace in the same 60 seems awkward imo.
4 and 4 anyways.
I was running 4 Jace, AoT and 1 Jace, MA for a while in Esper and I liked that set up. But 4/4 is completely overkill. You will have one stick and have 2 more in your hand wondering "WTF?"
Adept is fine in the board, fantastic even, but both Jace in the same 60 seems awkward imo.
they both serve different roles, and that's why i think it's a good enough reason to put both of them in there. Jace, AOT is almost always going to -2 all day everyday and when he's not -2'ng you shouldn't be playing Adept anyway. the basic idea is that Jace, AOT is your Sphinx's Revelation and you want to keep chaining them so that you draw all of your answers since all of them except for Ratchet bomb and Far // Away don't provide card advantage.
I was running 4 Jace, AoT and 1 Jace, MA for a while in Esper and I liked that set up. But 4/4 is completely overkill. You will have one stick and have 2 more in your hand wondering "WTF?"
Thing is Memory Adept is just a very bad card to be drawing against the majority of the field in G1 situations. It's not like you're running Ashiok to compliment him either so he's basically a 5 mana cantrip.
To me that just seems very sub par.
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I’ll provide my decklist, then I’ll provide some commentary about strategy. I will follow up that commentary with some commentary on card choices.
3x Doom Blade
3x Ultimate Price
4x Returned Phalanx
3x Syncopate
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3x Hero’s Downfall
3x Psychic Strike
3x Far/Away
2x Desecration Demon
2x Jace, memory Adept
3x Opportunity
1x Reap Intellect
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
7x Islands
9x Swamps
1x Syncopate
1x Psychic Strike
3x Dark Betrayal
2x Pithing Needle
2x Notion Theif
3x Agoraphobia
2x Omenspeaker
1x Doom Blade
General Strategy
Why does this strategy work?
Why does this strategy work against midrange builds?
Why does this strategy work against agro builds?
Why does this strategy work against control builds?
Why Returned Phalanx and not Omenspeaker?
Why Desecration Demon and not Aetherling?
Why Psychic Strike and not Dissolve?
Why Reap Intellect… I don’t even…?
Why Pithing Needle in the sideboard?
I understand Dark Betrayal but Agoraphobia?
FNM Matchups
Match 1 – Boros Agro:
Match 2 – Mono Black Devotion Brew:
Match 3 – Mono White Heroic Brew:
Match 4 – WBR Midrange:
Match 5 – Esper Control:
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
I agree that Read the Bones over Opportunity is probably an issue of pure choice. I think it probably comes down to a meta call. If you’re meta is agro heavy than Opportunity might be the preferable choice but if your meta is midrange or control heavy than Read the Bones may be the better option.
In this current build that I run, I prefer Phalanx because I can’t often afford the mana sink to boost power on my opponents combat phase and not have the mana open for a counter (even if I’m bluffing). Likewise, by build is slightly black-heavy which makes the UU cost potentially problematic on turn 2. On blue heavy builds and builds that run a 25 or 26 mana I can definitely see Frostburn Weird being superior.
I theorized that there would be a ton of Fleecemane Lions and Call of the Conclave out there in this new meta.I wanted to be able to trade with my opponents early threat without sinking mana. I can’t say that I have yet run into a turn 2 Call of the Conclave or Fleecemane Lion yet so I’m not sure if it’s something to build for.
I do feel that Aetherling and Thrassa may be better in a blue-heavy build. My concern with Thrassa is that often you may need a blocker when you do not have the devotion to make her a creature. It’s only one card – and it is a 3-drop, but might it be better to develop solutions to run her as a 2-of alongside cards that trigger devotion (Agoraphobia? Nightveil Specter?). Definitely a deck dynamic that is open for discussion.
My problem with Psychic Intrusion is twofold – first, it’s sorcery speed which means there’s a good chance you’re tapping yourself out an risking that your opponent does not have a second threat in-hand or will not top deck a second threat on his turn. Second, unlike Ashiok, you have to spend your own mana to cast the exiled card which doesn’t seem that great to me – 5 mana to pull a threat out of your opponents hand and another X mana to put that threat on your board under your control. I feel like that is an inefficient use of resources but I’m open to being convinced.
Honestly, I am of the opinion that Jace, Memory Adept is a usually a better card than Jace, Architect of Thought. Memory Adept gives you a card if you +1 him and puts him out of range of Warleader’s Helix. Architect of Thought gives you the best of 3 cards but on the turn he lands but then dies to shock. Memory Adept directly contributes to your win condition with his 0 ability. Architect of Thought only slows your opponent down a bit with his +1 ability.
I’m not the boss of this thread. Everyone is free to give their input :). I agree with you 100%.
With limited exception, my general thought is that sorcery-speed card draw that does nothing else and costs mana is almost never good (plainswalker’s excluded). The 2-card mill via Psychic Strike is synergistic, but it is also incidental to the fact that Psychic Strike is simply easier to cast over cards like Dissolve in a deck that has a primarily black manabase. If I were looking for cheaper card draw I would almost definitely consider Read the Bones over Pilfered Plans. Read the Bones gives you the same card draw for the mana cost of Pilfered Plans but also lets you fix your draw... which I consider far superior to milling your opponent 3.33% of his deck.
1-Aetherling
Spells:
1-Jace, Memory Adept
4-Jace, Architect of thought
4-Ashiok, nightmare weaver
4-Far//Away
3-Hero's Downfall
1 Devour Flesh
So far with minimal testing it feels amazing. Destroys esper. Has a 50% against RDW so far and 2-0 against Naya. That kinda covers all 3 spectrums of decks imo so its a good signal. We will be playtesting more but that feels really solid so far.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Play Inspiration.
It'll save you a lot of "counter or removal" grief.
I havent really had a problem playing divination really. Because if I want to play a removal spell then thats what I want to do. I rarely play a turn 3 divination. Its more or less a turn 5+ divination.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Returned Phalanx is better than I thought, I do like FB weird due to AotG immunity. How has omen speaker been working for anyone?
Also been thinking about Cyclonic Rift, because what's the plan for something we really needed to counter but just couldn't?
3x Returned Phalanx
1x Prognostic Sphinx
Walkers: 6
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
Removal: 12
3x Devour Flesh
3x Doom Blade
3x Far / Away
3x Hero's Downfall
3x Psychic Strike
2x Syncopate
Draw: 4
2x Inspiration
2x Opportunity
Discard: 2
2x Thoughtseize
Land: 25
9x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
8x Island
1x Dispel
3x Duress
1x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Lifebane Zombie
2x Negate
2x Notion Thief
1x Pithing Needle
1x Thoughtseize
2x Wall of Frost
I dont like the 2 demons. They should be your 4th jace and ashiok imo.
And sphinx should likely be aetherling.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Pithing needle is a thing. But that gives them 3 things to needle. and we can always cyclonic rift the needle to counter it when they replay it.
Im actualying of thinking of cutting the AEtherling because I have yet to cast it, nor have I ever needed it to close a game. Ashiok does a damn good job of doing that.
So here is the changes i made to my list
-1 Aetherling
-1 Divination
-1 Opportunity
+1 Jace, Memory Adept
+2 Inspiration
Opportunity was sitting in my hand so many times where as inspiration wouldnt have been.
EDIT:
Also you only see them with those win conditions yet they still keep winning.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Phalanx Returned, and sadly enough Omenspeaker; are not enough. Omenspeaker in particular was a heartbreaker because I loved its scry ability but 3 toughness is just not enough to stop aggro decks in these days. You need 4 to be defensive. You need Frostburn Weird because little else is enough. I said I main Agent of Fates, and I managed to go from Weird to AoF by adding 2/3 Blood Crypts and going easy on the Nykthos/Mutavaults. In fact, I don't think Nykthos/Mutavaults are particularly important in U/B control. Maybe none is the correct number.
Desecration Demon is a great beast but not a finisher in itself because too many things shut it off. Particularly the pure draw advantage of Planeswalkers. DD is an undercosted creature who's disadvantage is that all enemy card shut him off, temporarily or otherwise. A battle against a Domri player was particularly heartbreaking because he just kept drawing creatures, casting creatures, saccing creatures; all the while raising loyalty points and ultimating. I think he needs a solid discard strategy/PW hate plan to stay relevant. Certainly needs Hero's Demise.
I want to like Dumbledore but I just don't see him as a game closer. My testing with him was limited, but it all boils down to "their bombs beats our bomb". On the other hand, I can certainly see why Dumbledore is inciting; my biggest problem in U/B was in finding a right proper game ender. I just don't see that in the moment, and Aetherling is AFAIK our best bet.
Keep posting, I'll keep reading.
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
Seems pretty good, using Master of Waves as a mini Grave Titan I suppose. I have been liking it, and it actually is not all that bad against RDW either surprisingly.
3x Ratchet Bomb
Creature
4x Master Of Waves
2x Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalker
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4x Jace, Architect Of Thought
Enchantment
2x Domestication
Instant
2x Devour Flesh
2x Dissolve
2x Doom Blade
2x Essence Scatter
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Opportunity
4x Syncopate
1x Ultimate Price
1x Dimir Guildgate
7x Island
4x Mutavault
5x Swamp
4x Temple Of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
2x Pithing Needle
4x Tidebinder Mage
3x Wall Of Frost
2x Negate
1x Jace, Memory Adept
3x Thoughtseize
Not quite sure how I feel about the complete lack of Aetherling or Far//Away in the 75. I dislike Pithing Needle as a card in general and personally feel Claustrophobia is better than Wall of Frost going forward.
But all in all pretty solid deck.
I'm fine with a worse control G1 but Aetherling is just flat out better than Memory Adept in the board as far as the control MU goes.
For sure, the ling is a great sb card
This is what I'm gonna test out maindeck
4 Returned Phalanx
4 Desecration Demon
2 Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalker (4)
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Instants (13)
3 Quicken
1 Doom Blade
1 Ultimate Price
1 Devour Flesh
3 Syncopate
3 Far // Away
1 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
3 Divination
2 Corrupt
Lands (24)
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
4 Island
12 Swamp
4 Duress
4 Pharika's Cure
3 Doom Blade
3 Lifebane Zombie
1 Hero's Downfall
Have you considered consuming aberration? Seems pretty good in the mill version you have going on. Turn 5 cast aberration. Turn 6 cast jace trigger aberrations mill, then jace 0. Turn 6 he's likely to be at least a 15/15
I'm shocked to say the least, but in my testing on cockatrice i'm undefeated from about 12 matches(small results to pull from overall, but still holds some merit) with various users playing decks ranging from Mono Red, Naya, GR Devotion, U devotion, Esper, and BW Midrange. At worst I would say i'm at a good starting point.
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Doom Blade
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Far // Away
4 Dimir Charm
3 Opportunity
2 Divination
2 Thoughtseize
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Mutavault
6 Swamp
8 Island
3 Ultimate Price
2 Negate
1 Gainsay
1 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Opportunity
1 Aetherling
2 Pharika's Cure
1 Far // Away
1 Ratchet Bomb
Jace, Memory Adept: If you remember last season he was a house and this season is no different. I added him as an extra card drawer since i don't have Azorious Charm to cantrip, and i feel light playing only 9 cards that draw. He also finishes the game fairly quickly. I had also initially considered Prognostic Sphinx in this spot.
Dimir Charm: This was just a dumb idea i wanted to try out, but it's been working above my expectation. there are A LOT of <=2 power creatures in this format which makes it Doom Blade 9-12 against most aggro/Devotion matches (the problem area for this Archetype). Against midrange you're using Dimir Charm as a counterspell for their Disruption(Thoughtseize, Rakdos's Return) and Card Advantage (Read the Bones). Against Control you're kind of waiting until you are ahead to really use it to full power for example if their behind on say land drops you can keep it that way.
Adept is fine in the board, fantastic even, but both Jace in the same 60 seems awkward imo.
4 and 4 anyways.
I was running 4 Jace, AoT and 1 Jace, MA for a while in Esper and I liked that set up. But 4/4 is completely overkill. You will have one stick and have 2 more in your hand wondering "WTF?"
they both serve different roles, and that's why i think it's a good enough reason to put both of them in there. Jace, AOT is almost always going to -2 all day everyday and when he's not -2'ng you shouldn't be playing Adept anyway. the basic idea is that Jace, AOT is your Sphinx's Revelation and you want to keep chaining them so that you draw all of your answers since all of them except for Ratchet bomb and Far // Away don't provide card advantage.
where's 4/4? haha I'm pretty sure it's 4/2
To me that just seems very sub par.