He sounds like he has no clue what he's talking about, and seems to have zero confidence in the deck he built.
...yea.
I do agree with him about Magma Jet... I feel the 2 damage is just not enough and it really just makes a Scry 2 card.
He's also looking at Chandra wrong. He only refers to her capability's to kill x/1 creatures. Its her +0 that's true power. The deck built right is filled with removal and heavy beats. Every time you +1 there is a good chance you get a free kill spell, draw, board wipe, or problem creature.
An I wish they would have asked him why he left out the Whip. I guess his low creature count?
I think the deck Lukas played at PT Dublin was actually quite powerful, if a bit boring for my taste.
Having 1 Whip in the main deck seems like a no brainer personally. Chandra is also a decent fit, but I'm not big on drawing multiples. If I'm looking for consistent draw, I'd rather be on a dedicated Underworld Connections build.
I played FNM this weekend and went 4-1 with my only loss being to an eternally frustrating U/W Trading Post/Haunted Plate Mail deck.
This build plays 4 Mutavaults of 26 total lands, which I use as creatures very liberally. I also run 3x Keyrune to help me hit Anger or Demon double colored mana. This iteration has no cards that are completely dead against control w/ Planeswalkers which I really like. U/W/x control is my weakest (and least favorite) matchup, so the deck is set up to try and steal it game 1 if at all possible.
I was surprised he has no Rakdos Keyrune, that card has been a house for me, good blocker and reasonably hard to kill creature vs. control. I think it's a mistake to not run this.
Yes, I did. I wonder which reasons led him to play with this deck, since he seems to hate it a lot.
I don't think we just have a bunch of removal and "demons and dragons". BR has access to a lot of good removal, disruption, card draw a some good creatures, but I feel a lack of synergy with some choices.
Note that he doesn't have any copy of Read the Bones and only 2 Thoughtseize SB. He also didn't play with Whip. Even though his list has a low creature count, Mutavault and Rakdos Keyrune represent threats, right? I think they should work fine a singleton Whip of Erebos due to lifelink, although they can't be reanimated.
Magma Jet is really good, but we need to use it carefully. Depending on the situation it can be a removal or just a Scry 2 card. Against control you just unload it and improve your draw quality; against aggro builds we use it to kill dorks or x/2 annoying bears. However, IMO, 4 copies are too much, just because it compete with Doom Blade and Dreadbore.
As @FrancusAurelius mentioned, Dark Betrayal is a good replacement for Doom Blade against the BW and Dega lists.
He sounds like he has no clue what he's talking about, and seems to have zero confidence in the deck he built.
...yea.
I do agree with him about Magma Jet... I feel the 2 damage is just not enough and it really just makes a Scry 2 card.
He's also looking at Chandra wrong. He only refers to her capability's to kill x/1 creatures. Its her +0 that's true power. The deck built right is filled with removal and heavy beats. Every time you +1 there is a good chance you get a free kill spell, draw, board wipe, or problem creature.
An I wish they would have asked him why he left out the Whip. I guess his low creature count?
I agree. Rakdos Keyrune and Mutavult demand instant answers and give us board presence until our 4 and 5 drops (DD and Stormbreath).
They also work perfectly with Anger of the Gods.
I was surprised he has no Rakdos Keyrune, that card has been a house for me, good blocker and reasonably hard to kill creature vs. control. I think it's a mistake to not run this.
Yes, I did. I wonder which reasons led him to play with this deck, since he seems to hate it a lot.
I don't think we just have a bunch of removal and "demons and dragons". BR has access to a lot of good removal, disruption, card draw a some good creatures, but I feel a lack of synergy with some choices.
What are the choices you feel there is a lack of synergy with?
My argument is Magma Jet is against GW agro there is a lot of x/3 guys and Jet doesn't have the range. It can get Voice, but I'd rather leave that one for the Gods get angry at.
I do feel it needs something a little more on the aggressive side other then Desecration Demon and Stormbreath. Although what to add it another story. Maybe Mutavault and Keyrune is the answer? Perhaps Hammer of Phosphorus?
A hasty demon is funny to me and can be an auto two for one.
I did look at that 2nd place deck and found it interesting. No card draw is odd? I seen the deck place top 8 several times, I think its just more playtesting to find whats works.
Using Young Pyromancer gives us things to do on a 2nd turn and also allows for removal bait as Young Pyromancer will win us the game if not dealt with. I can use Lightning Strike or Jet with Young Pyromancer to shoot opponents in the face and get an elemental if there are no relevant targets to face.
Pack Rat
Pack Rat was originally there because I was playing Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and I wanted the devotion to help push through bigger Rakdos's Returns and because they play well with Mutavault. I ended up taking out the Nykthos, obviously, because I wasn't really heavy on the devotion, and it just seemed like a win more card when I did get it off. What I learnt however, was that Pack Rat just helps you destroy aggro in the early turns and lets you get to the late game to do what you do best. You can also feel safe to discard creature spells when you have Whip of Erebos in the deck.
Sire of Insanity and Rakdos's Return
There has so far not been many instances where I have not wanted either of these, and for the times when I've had both in hand I've had options. I'll usually just hit their hand with Rakdos's Return to either bait out a counter or remove a kill spell before dropping the Sire. So far, I'm really happy with 4 and 2.
Underworld Cerberus
I know, I know. He doesn't play well with the rest of the deck. But he's a finisher. I will only drop him when they have nothing in hand and I'm certain that I have the kill. Against control, their only hope is to have a kill spell or a bounce spell and if their hand is completely empty there's much less chance of that happening. I've yet to have his downside hit me, and I'll admit I don't look forward to having it happen; but I have had such a good run with him so far, that I feel like I can continue to safely run him.
For a lot of matchups, timing is everything. Knowing when to play the right discard or creature spells is key. But everytime I play this deck I feel as though I have something very very powerful under my control. I'm in love with it.
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-=Current Decks=-
Standard: B Mono Black Devotion B
Modern: B Vampires B BW Tokens BW BRG DredgeVine BRG
Does anyone know Chris Pikula's list? I can't seem to find it.
I plan on going to the SCG open in Seattle this weekend so now I'm debating about putting Illness in the Ranks or putting Rakdos Charm back in. Illness deals with a card I NEVER want to try and race (assemble the legion) and deals with the tokens from master, though using the charm to deal with the weapons, boon satyrs, or even adding insult to injury and killing them with their own tokens sounds fun.
I think I just convinced myself with that heh.
I'm dropping my sires from the board, Its a fine card but it doesn't do anything except against control and just straight up emptying their hand with a Return works just as well, not to mention I can redirect the damage to planeswalkers.
So play testing this against the blue devotion deck as long as I don't get mana screwed it's a pretty fair fight, if not in my favor, pre-board. Post board I've encountered its still pretty even. They drop creatures for counter spells and I up my removal. Also, Desecration Demon? HILARIOUSLY AWFUL against this deck. I had two on the board that were 9/9's when I died because hey, 7 elemental's just chump for days.
That mono-black deck has me slightly worried. I can't deal with their non-creature permanents and erebos so they can get devotion rocking that I cant deal with so when they start dropping grey merchants its going to hurt.
Still not impressed with chandra MB or sideboard. I'd rather use underworld connections for consistent draw (using chandra to exile a finisher when you cant cast it hurts), her +1 is totally irrelevant that I have found. Format has waaay too many X/2's and I don't care if they can block with it.
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"We cannot join. We cannot rest. Our lives, our souls, endure. We have been returned."
Standard RBUGrixis Tutelage BR Devoid Beatdown Modern RAffinity B 8 Rack Legacy 0 Dredge EDH RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
I really like your list. Well... despite Pack Rat.
It looks like your the heavy control player early game. Then you win by getting your opponent into top deck mode with CA from Underworld Connections and Whip's. Not to mention Sire is a beast if your opponent has a dead board and no answer.
I really like it how's play testing going?
Also, no Anger of the Gods??? An why do you choose Underworld Cerebus in the SB?
Keep me posted on how well you do, looks interesting.
Here's my list. I've forced 4 UB temples in place of swamps and they've been amazing. The scry, fixing for Weird, and the late-game potential of kicking far//away has all been great.
I really like your list. Well... despite Pack Rat.
It looks like your the heavy control player early game. Then you win by getting your opponent into top deck mode with CA from Underworld Connections and Whip's. Not to mention Sire is a beast if your opponent has a dead board and no answer.
I really like it how's play testing going?
Also, no Anger of the Gods??? An why do you choose Underworld Cerebus in the SB?
Keep me posted on how well you do, looks interesting.
Yeah, heavy control forcing them into top-deck mode with some big beasts down. I went with 0 Anger of the Gods because I just can't get RR that often. There's been games where even getting R has been a challenge, and if not for pack rats...well... lol. That's one of the other big reasons he's there. Cerberus is there because he's a massive creature that is practically unblockable in the control/midrange match once you've stripped their hands. Against mono black devotion he completely shuts down their whip which is massive for them getting back into the game.
Testing has been going well so far. I've got a bigger tournament on this weekend that I can attend which will be the real test.
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-=Current Decks=-
Standard: B Mono Black Devotion B
Modern: B Vampires B BW Tokens BW BRG DredgeVine BRG
@Slash:
Not playing Anger of the Gods is a big mistake, it is one of the cards to play black red for in the first place.
4 Sire of Insanity is overkill. I run 1 mb 1 sb for control. 1 MB to have a chance vs control since it's all about sticking a Sire or Rakdos's Return them. Not drawing those = loss vs control.
As I mentioned, Anger of the Gods is too mana intensive for what I'm going for. You want to be casting it turn 3, and I just won't get RR that fast. I also don't want to be diluting my mana for a card that won't further my own board presence, especially when I have hero's downfall, underworld connections, and lifebane zombie in the 3-drop slot as well.
The reason I run 4 Sire is because of the control decks where I play. As you mentioned, not drawing Sire or Return vs control = a loss. Running 1 or 2 just doesn't consistently give me the opportunity to cast them in time, and if I'm running so few and an Ashiok exiles them before I get to them myself, I may as well scoop there and then.
I guess if I was running a less creature intensive, even more heavy control build then I'd be playing them. But at the moment, I'm confident that spot removal and a constantly growing board presence of my own while I strip away their hand is the way to go.
@ Slash
Spot removal is not good enough vs fast aggro decks, just wait and see next weekend when you are playing against aggro. You'll want board wipes then.
Underworld Connections is too slow to play in MB, good vs control. So if you are saying you only play against control then yes, play them.
Keep us posted about your results, I am interested in your findings. Especially 4x lifebane zombie MB (I run those too). And ofcourse the pack rats!
Also, just give Rakdos Keyrune a try. It will be your new friend.
From what I can see hes going towards I think Underworld Connections seems to be perfect. While your opponent and possibly yourself are in topdeck mode you effectively have the upper hand drawing an extra card per turn from UC. An Whip brings back creatures for more CA, damage and life.
Even the 4 MD Sire of Insanity looks might not be a bad idea. Well.... its a 6 drop I think 3 is fine. I think his idea looks solid just MD needs to be tweaked a bit.
@ Slash
If you want to sick to your initial build run with it and let us know how it does, but if I do agree with Nivix on some points.
Why dont your try 2-3 MD Rakdos Keyrune? It will give you a creature when your hand and board is dead. Not to forget it can be a ramp to bring down Sire or RR a turn sooner.
An I also highly recommend Anger of the Gods as well. At least SB! Its just silly not to.
I'm still working on my brew atm but maybe this FNM Ill put something similar to your together and give it a go.
Nivix is right about anger of the gods, that's really the main reason to play Rakdos. I personally don't like Sire of Insanity either, but i can see the merits of running it.
Did anyone see this list that came in 11th at the SCG open in Milwaukee?
I think this is a great list, not many people here have been talking about Trading Post, i was skeptical at first but playing with it, it was very good at stabilizing my life total. It also shuts down our opponent's Desecration Demons.
Nivix is right about anger of the gods, that's really the main reason to play Rakdos. I personally don't like Sire of Insanity either, but i can see the merits of running it.
Did anyone see this list that came in 11th at the SCG open in Milwaukee?
I think this is a great list, not many people here have been talking about Trading Post, i was skeptical at first but playing with it, it was very good at stabilizing my life total. It also shuts down our opponent's Desecration Demons.
Its a really fun deck. Been playing it since it was posted on SCG to try it out, less two Mutavaults since I need to find two more. The all-star in the deck is the Rakdos Keyrune. While I first thought of it as bad against any other Red deck, they have to pay respect that I can animate it at anytime and they generally keep a burn spell ready for it instead of shooting it to my face. Tapping out on turn three for it isnt a liability against aggro because shock mana is open, and its generally a good time for you to Thoughtseize as well against midrange decks. It also sets up bigger RR's.
Tapping out on turn three for it isnt a liability against aggro because shock mana is open, and its generally a good time for you to Thoughtseize as well against midrange decks. It also sets up bigger RR's.
Exactly because of this is why I advocate running shock over Magma jet
I've been playing against a few of the devotion decks, and I believe the one that could give us the most problems is the black one, although I think we are still well positioned to beat these decks with removal + hand disruption.
Exactly because of this is why I advocate running shock over Magma jet
I've been playing against a few of the devotion decks, and I believe the one that could give us the most problems is the black one, although I think we are still well positioned to beat these decks with removal + hand disruption.
Played against a variant of mono-black Devo. Whip of Erebos is quite a hassle, makes our spot removal a lot weaker, and it buys them time to start finding Grey Merchants.
Played against a variant of mono-black Devo. Whip of Erebos is quite a hassle, makes our spot removal a lot weaker, and it buys them time to start finding Grey Merchants.
The whip is a huge pain in the rear and i need to find a way to remove it, for sure. The problem is, if they whip a Demon for example, is that you HAVE to take the 6 damage and let them gain 6 life. If you spot removal kill it, it is only coming back next turn. And yes, recurring Gray Merchants is equally not any fun.
yes Rakdos Charm is a good SB choice as 2 of I think. Maybe underworld Cerberus might be worth a second look as a 5th or 6th Dragon if whip becomes very prevalent.
Another alternative, is to run pithing needle in your SB, that card is good against alot of decks. This might be the best bet if you are running Trading Post in your 75.
The biggest key to MBD is really slaughter games'ing their Garys. Once those are gone it's easy to smash the rest of the deck. Whip is still annoying of course, but without gary it's reasonably beatable. It's pretty much a mirror match at that point, but with a major edge to us.
@ Slash
Spot removal is not good enough vs fast aggro decks, just wait and see next weekend when you are playing against aggro. You'll want board wipes then.
Underworld Connections is too slow to play in MB, good vs control. So if you are saying you only play against control then yes, play them.
Keep us posted about your results, I am interested in your findings. Especially 4x lifebane zombie MB (I run those too). And ofcourse the pack rats!
Also, just give Rakdos Keyrune a try. It will be your new friend.
I had Rakdos Keyrunes in there for a while (they were one of the first few things I put in lol), but I found they were only good for ramping since I could rarely turn them on so I ditched them. I agree that Anger is a great card against the hyper-agressive decks, but so far I've seen a trend towards control and midrange, as well as a few people picking up mono u (and GW aggro which I can race with rats and removal) so the lack of it was a meta choice, not a "I don't think the card is good/worth it" (because it obviously is if the meta calls for it ) I'll see how I go tonight and at FNM. I'm in a very competitive meta with people from my two LGS always doing really well at the bigger tournaments, so If the green devotion and hyper-agressive red decks pop up then I'll move towards anger of the gods and cards like mizzium mortars and modify the mana base like you suggested, and of course keyrunes will go back in.
@FrancusAurelius Trading Post is crazy good! For a while I was running 1 in the SB purely to bring back ratchet bombs and gain life. Was awesome.
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-=Current Decks=-
Standard: B Mono Black Devotion B
Modern: B Vampires B BW Tokens BW BRG DredgeVine BRG
I should have been 4-0 but I accidentally scryed an Anger of the Gods to the bottom and it cost me dearly against colossal gruul.
Played against Naya Midrange (2-0), Mono blue Devotion (2-0), Colossal Gruul (1-2), and White Weenie (2-0).
This deck crushes the Mono Blue deck, and not surpisingly crushes white weenie (STORMBREATH!).
Also had a funny moment against the Naya player, he dropped a garruk, caller of beasts, and drew 4 creatures, I untap andRakdos's Return his Garruk for 5, kill your garruk discard your hand. All of a sudden those llanowar elves don't look so good..
Not sure I'll keep the haunted plate mail, had it in my hand once and wished it was something else, never got to smash face with it. It would be nice to have another threat on board, I might replace it with a sire of insanity
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Did you actually watch that video?
He sounds like he has no clue what he's talking about, and seems to have zero confidence in the deck he built.
...yea.
I do agree with him about Magma Jet... I feel the 2 damage is just not enough and it really just makes a Scry 2 card.
He's also looking at Chandra wrong. He only refers to her capability's to kill x/1 creatures. Its her +0 that's true power. The deck built right is filled with removal and heavy beats. Every time you +1 there is a good chance you get a free kill spell, draw, board wipe, or problem creature.
An I wish they would have asked him why he left out the Whip. I guess his low creature count?
Having 1 Whip in the main deck seems like a no brainer personally. Chandra is also a decent fit, but I'm not big on drawing multiples. If I'm looking for consistent draw, I'd rather be on a dedicated Underworld Connections build.
I played FNM this weekend and went 4-1 with my only loss being to an eternally frustrating U/W Trading Post/Haunted Plate Mail deck.
This build plays 4 Mutavaults of 26 total lands, which I use as creatures very liberally. I also run 3x Keyrune to help me hit Anger or Demon double colored mana. This iteration has no cards that are completely dead against control w/ Planeswalkers which I really like. U/W/x control is my weakest (and least favorite) matchup, so the deck is set up to try and steal it game 1 if at all possible.
4x Blood Crypt
7x Mountain
4x Mutavault
4x Rakdos Guildgate
7x Swamp
Creature (7)
4x Desecration Demon
3x Stormbreath Dragon
Artifact (3)
3x Rakdos Keyrune
Planeswalker (1)
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Dreadbore
2x Rakdos's Return
3x Read the Bones
3x Thoughtseize
Instant (8)
3x Devour Flesh
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Shock
Enchantment (1)
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Doom Blade
4x Duress
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Lifebane Zombie
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Underworld Connections
I don't think we just have a bunch of removal and "demons and dragons". BR has access to a lot of good removal, disruption, card draw a some good creatures, but I feel a lack of synergy with some choices.
There's another BR list which placed 2nd in an event:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1163748
Note that he doesn't have any copy of Read the Bones and only 2 Thoughtseize SB. He also didn't play with Whip. Even though his list has a low creature count, Mutavault and Rakdos Keyrune represent threats, right? I think they should work fine a singleton Whip of Erebos due to lifelink, although they can't be reanimated.
Magma Jet is really good, but we need to use it carefully. Depending on the situation it can be a removal or just a Scry 2 card. Against control you just unload it and improve your draw quality; against aggro builds we use it to kill dorks or x/2 annoying bears. However, IMO, 4 copies are too much, just because it compete with Doom Blade and Dreadbore.
As @FrancusAurelius mentioned, Dark Betrayal is a good replacement for Doom Blade against the BW and Dega lists.
They also work perfectly with Anger of the Gods.
What are the choices you feel there is a lack of synergy with?
My argument is Magma Jet is against GW agro there is a lot of x/3 guys and Jet doesn't have the range. It can get Voice, but I'd rather leave that one for the Gods get angry at.
I do feel it needs something a little more on the aggressive side other then Desecration Demon and Stormbreath. Although what to add it another story. Maybe Mutavault and Keyrune is the answer? Perhaps Hammer of Phosphorus?
A hasty demon is funny to me and can be an auto two for one.
I did look at that 2nd place deck and found it interesting. No card draw is odd? I seen the deck place top 8 several times, I think its just more playtesting to find whats works.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
8 Swamp
7 Mountain
2 Mutavault
11 Creatures
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Desecration Demon
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Thoughtseize
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Doom Blade
2 Dreadbore
2 Read the Bones
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Rakdos's Keyrune
1 Whip of Erebos
Using Young Pyromancer gives us things to do on a 2nd turn and also allows for removal bait as Young Pyromancer will win us the game if not dealt with. I can use Lightning Strike or Jet with Young Pyromancer to shoot opponents in the face and get an elemental if there are no relevant targets to face.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mutavault
15 Swamp
Creatures
4 Pack Rat
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
4 Sire of Insanity
4 Thoughtseize
2 Dreadbore
1 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
2 Pharika's Cure
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Devour Flesh
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Ultimate Price
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Slaughter Games
4 Underworld Cerberus
A few notes:
Pack Rat
Pack Rat was originally there because I was playing Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and I wanted the devotion to help push through bigger Rakdos's Returns and because they play well with Mutavault. I ended up taking out the Nykthos, obviously, because I wasn't really heavy on the devotion, and it just seemed like a win more card when I did get it off. What I learnt however, was that Pack Rat just helps you destroy aggro in the early turns and lets you get to the late game to do what you do best. You can also feel safe to discard creature spells when you have Whip of Erebos in the deck.
Sire of Insanity and Rakdos's Return
There has so far not been many instances where I have not wanted either of these, and for the times when I've had both in hand I've had options. I'll usually just hit their hand with Rakdos's Return to either bait out a counter or remove a kill spell before dropping the Sire. So far, I'm really happy with 4 and 2.
Underworld Cerberus
I know, I know. He doesn't play well with the rest of the deck. But he's a finisher. I will only drop him when they have nothing in hand and I'm certain that I have the kill. Against control, their only hope is to have a kill spell or a bounce spell and if their hand is completely empty there's much less chance of that happening. I've yet to have his downside hit me, and I'll admit I don't look forward to having it happen; but I have had such a good run with him so far, that I feel like I can continue to safely run him.
Slaughter Games
Almost purely to deal with those annoying as hell, hard to kill creatures like Aetherling, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Obzedat, Ghost Council, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, and anything else that you can think of. The downside I've found to this deck is that if they don't have it in hand when you Thoughtseize, then you're at a bit of a disadvantage. Slaughter Games takes this problem away.
For a lot of matchups, timing is everything. Knowing when to play the right discard or creature spells is key. But everytime I play this deck I feel as though I have something very very powerful under my control. I'm in love with it.
-=Current Decks=-
Standard:
B Mono Black Devotion B
Modern:
B Vampires B
BW Tokens BW
BRG DredgeVine BRG
Legacy:
X Affinity X
B Dredge B
I plan on going to the SCG open in Seattle this weekend so now I'm debating about putting Illness in the Ranks or putting Rakdos Charm back in. Illness deals with a card I NEVER want to try and race (assemble the legion) and deals with the tokens from master, though using the charm to deal with the weapons, boon satyrs, or even adding insult to injury and killing them with their own tokens sounds fun.
I think I just convinced myself with that heh.
I'm dropping my sires from the board, Its a fine card but it doesn't do anything except against control and just straight up emptying their hand with a Return works just as well, not to mention I can redirect the damage to planeswalkers.
So play testing this against the blue devotion deck as long as I don't get mana screwed it's a pretty fair fight, if not in my favor, pre-board. Post board I've encountered its still pretty even. They drop creatures for counter spells and I up my removal. Also, Desecration Demon? HILARIOUSLY AWFUL against this deck. I had two on the board that were 9/9's when I died because hey, 7 elemental's just chump for days.
That mono-black deck has me slightly worried. I can't deal with their non-creature permanents and erebos so they can get devotion rocking that I cant deal with so when they start dropping grey merchants its going to hurt.
Still not impressed with chandra MB or sideboard. I'd rather use underworld connections for consistent draw (using chandra to exile a finisher when you cant cast it hurts), her +1 is totally irrelevant that I have found. Format has waaay too many X/2's and I don't care if they can block with it.
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
I really like your list. Well... despite Pack Rat.
It looks like your the heavy control player early game. Then you win by getting your opponent into top deck mode with CA from Underworld Connections and Whip's. Not to mention Sire is a beast if your opponent has a dead board and no answer.
I really like it how's play testing going?
Also, no Anger of the Gods??? An why do you choose Underworld Cerebus in the SB?
Keep me posted on how well you do, looks interesting.
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Desecration Demon
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Artifacts
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Rakdos Keyrune
Sorceries
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Read the Bones
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Thoughtseize
3 Far // Away
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
Land
8 Mountain
5 Swamp
2 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Deceit
2 Mutavault
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Slaughter Games
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pharika's Cure
1 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos Charm
Twitch channel
Yeah, heavy control forcing them into top-deck mode with some big beasts down. I went with 0 Anger of the Gods because I just can't get RR that often. There's been games where even getting R has been a challenge, and if not for pack rats...well... lol. That's one of the other big reasons he's there. Cerberus is there because he's a massive creature that is practically unblockable in the control/midrange match once you've stripped their hands. Against mono black devotion he completely shuts down their whip which is massive for them getting back into the game.
Testing has been going well so far. I've got a bigger tournament on this weekend that I can attend which will be the real test.
-=Current Decks=-
Standard:
B Mono Black Devotion B
Modern:
B Vampires B
BW Tokens BW
BRG DredgeVine BRG
Legacy:
X Affinity X
B Dredge B
As I mentioned, Anger of the Gods is too mana intensive for what I'm going for. You want to be casting it turn 3, and I just won't get RR that fast. I also don't want to be diluting my mana for a card that won't further my own board presence, especially when I have hero's downfall, underworld connections, and lifebane zombie in the 3-drop slot as well.
The reason I run 4 Sire is because of the control decks where I play. As you mentioned, not drawing Sire or Return vs control = a loss. Running 1 or 2 just doesn't consistently give me the opportunity to cast them in time, and if I'm running so few and an Ashiok exiles them before I get to them myself, I may as well scoop there and then.
I guess if I was running a less creature intensive, even more heavy control build then I'd be playing them. But at the moment, I'm confident that spot removal and a constantly growing board presence of my own while I strip away their hand is the way to go.
-=Current Decks=-
Standard:
B Mono Black Devotion B
Modern:
B Vampires B
BW Tokens BW
BRG DredgeVine BRG
Legacy:
X Affinity X
B Dredge B
From what I can see hes going towards I think Underworld Connections seems to be perfect. While your opponent and possibly yourself are in topdeck mode you effectively have the upper hand drawing an extra card per turn from UC. An Whip brings back creatures for more CA, damage and life.
Even the 4 MD Sire of Insanity looks might not be a bad idea. Well.... its a 6 drop I think 3 is fine. I think his idea looks solid just MD needs to be tweaked a bit.
@ Slash
If you want to sick to your initial build run with it and let us know how it does, but if I do agree with Nivix on some points.
Why dont your try 2-3 MD Rakdos Keyrune? It will give you a creature when your hand and board is dead. Not to forget it can be a ramp to bring down Sire or RR a turn sooner.
An I also highly recommend Anger of the Gods as well. At least SB! Its just silly not to.
I'm still working on my brew atm but maybe this FNM Ill put something similar to your together and give it a go.
Did anyone see this list that came in 11th at the SCG open in Milwaukee?
I think this is a great list, not many people here have been talking about Trading Post, i was skeptical at first but playing with it, it was very good at stabilizing my life total. It also shuts down our opponent's Desecration Demons.
Its a really fun deck. Been playing it since it was posted on SCG to try it out, less two Mutavaults since I need to find two more. The all-star in the deck is the Rakdos Keyrune. While I first thought of it as bad against any other Red deck, they have to pay respect that I can animate it at anytime and they generally keep a burn spell ready for it instead of shooting it to my face. Tapping out on turn three for it isnt a liability against aggro because shock mana is open, and its generally a good time for you to Thoughtseize as well against midrange decks. It also sets up bigger RR's.
Exactly because of this is why I advocate running shock over Magma jet
I've been playing against a few of the devotion decks, and I believe the one that could give us the most problems is the black one, although I think we are still well positioned to beat these decks with removal + hand disruption.
Played against a variant of mono-black Devo. Whip of Erebos is quite a hassle, makes our spot removal a lot weaker, and it buys them time to start finding Grey Merchants.
The whip is a huge pain in the rear and i need to find a way to remove it, for sure. The problem is, if they whip a Demon for example, is that you HAVE to take the 6 damage and let them gain 6 life. If you spot removal kill it, it is only coming back next turn. And yes, recurring Gray Merchants is equally not any fun.
Lately, if a whip lands, i'm dead.
Another alternative, is to run pithing needle in your SB, that card is good against alot of decks. This might be the best bet if you are running Trading Post in your 75.
Twitch channel
I had Rakdos Keyrunes in there for a while (they were one of the first few things I put in lol), but I found they were only good for ramping since I could rarely turn them on so I ditched them. I agree that Anger is a great card against the hyper-agressive decks, but so far I've seen a trend towards control and midrange, as well as a few people picking up mono u (and GW aggro which I can race with rats and removal) so the lack of it was a meta choice, not a "I don't think the card is good/worth it" (because it obviously is if the meta calls for it ) I'll see how I go tonight and at FNM. I'm in a very competitive meta with people from my two LGS always doing really well at the bigger tournaments, so If the green devotion and hyper-agressive red decks pop up then I'll move towards anger of the gods and cards like mizzium mortars and modify the mana base like you suggested, and of course keyrunes will go back in.
@FrancusAurelius Trading Post is crazy good! For a while I was running 1 in the SB purely to bring back ratchet bombs and gain life. Was awesome.
-=Current Decks=-
Standard:
B Mono Black Devotion B
Modern:
B Vampires B
BW Tokens BW
BRG DredgeVine BRG
Legacy:
X Affinity X
B Dredge B
Just 3-1'd a MTGO daily event with this list
2 x Ratchet Bomb
2 x Dreadbore
2 x Devour Flesh
3 x Rakdos Keyrune
3 x Anger of the Gods
3 x Read the Bones
2 x Hero's Downfall
1 x Haunted Plate Mail
1 x Trading Post
2 x Chandra Pyromaster
4 x Desecration Demon
4 x Stormbreath Dragon
2 x Rakdos's Return
2 x Underworld Connections
3 x Lifebane Zombie
1 x Hero's Downfall
2 x Doom Blade
1 x Thoughtseize
2 x Dark Betrayal
1 x Anger of the Gods
2 x Shock
1 x Rakdos's Return
I should have been 4-0 but I accidentally scryed an Anger of the Gods to the bottom and it cost me dearly against colossal gruul.
Played against Naya Midrange (2-0), Mono blue Devotion (2-0), Colossal Gruul (1-2), and White Weenie (2-0).
This deck crushes the Mono Blue deck, and not surpisingly crushes white weenie (STORMBREATH!).
Also had a funny moment against the Naya player, he dropped a garruk, caller of beasts, and drew 4 creatures, I untap andRakdos's Return his Garruk for 5, kill your garruk discard your hand. All of a sudden those llanowar elves don't look so good..
Not sure I'll keep the haunted plate mail, had it in my hand once and wished it was something else, never got to smash face with it. It would be nice to have another threat on board, I might replace it with a sire of insanity