What and Why?
Red Black control is a far more aggressive form of control than Esper, BUG and other control variants. It utilizes instant removal and hand disruption to force your opponent to play in a stressful situation with limited options.
Red Black control is slightly less grindy than a typical control deck, featuring more creatures, no counterspells and more self damage.
Why should you play this deck?
Why shouldn't you play this deck? It features everything from big creatures to boardwipes to drawspells and Gods. It even has lifegain to keep you alive while you're spending your life on getting greater card advantage, while punishing your opponents life and forcing them into topdeck mode.
Card Choices
Creatures
Crypt Ghast Our bread and butter ramp card. Because this deck is mostly black, he effectively doubles your mana output. He can also provide some small yet repeatable lifegain through Extort, and is a decent body for attacking with. Run 4.
Desecration Demon Our iconic finisher. Cheap to cast, evasive, and can offer straight damage or board lockdown by forcing opponents to sacrifice creatures. Run 3-4.
Sire of Insanity This card is a bit stranger. It wrecks your hand in exchange for wrecking your opponents hand, forcing both of you into topdeck mode. However, you can win the topdeck war with assistance from powerful draw spells such as Read the BonesUnderworld Connections and Erebos, God of the Dead. You can run any amount; I will be running 3.
Nightveil Specter Personally, I really like this card. While it has a very heavy black investment, it allows us to steal cards from our opponent and help us to make land drops, even if they are in the wrong colour. I've done a small amount of testing with this guy, and what he does he does quite well. It's also nice that he's flying, even if he only does hit for 2. Run 0-2, but he's under testing.
Underworld Cerberus This card functions as an excellent finisher. It's a 5 drop 6/6 with pseudo-evasion that can put a dead halt to decks that are heavy on graveyard interaction. Reports have suggested that his gameplay is not as good as it appears on paper. Maybe he functions best as a sideboard card? Run 0-2.
Blood Scrivener This card is a bit stranger. He looks similar to Dark Confidant, but is very situational. From research I have done, I have concluded this card is not very good. By all means run him, but expect to dislike him fairly quickly. Run 0-4, but I would recommend 0.
Lifebane Zombie This card effectively has unblockable. It's also nice that he has a strong ETB effect, even if it only hits GW colours. He can also function as a threatening blocker, should the need arise. I would personally sideboard 0-3 of this guy.
Erebos, God of the Dead This card's quality remains to be seen. The recursion of his card draw ability is nice, but comes at quite a cost of 2 mana and 2 life. The anti life gain is fantastic, but only in particular matchups. It's quite possible that this card is sideboard gear, but we'll see as the deck is refined.
Master of Cruelties He seems a bit gimmicky, but he might have potential. I will test him for now. Excellent kill 'spell' with recursion, and the ability to drop your opponent to one life is no laughing matter. However, he does require red and black mana unlike Desecration Demon.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel This is a card I feel deserves a mention. While control decks aren't the most devotion heavy, he still provides some good lifegain, and on a reasonable body if a bit expensive. In testing.
Stormbreath Dragon This is our new Hellkite. It makes a good finisher and for a good reason. With protection from white, it dodges cards such as Azorius Charm, Chained to the Rocks and Detention Sphere. Not only that, but it also makes use of a handy flying and haste, ensuring you hit hard on the turn he comes down. Oh, and he can grow. The only issue is that he has a high R investment and we play a hand disruption style, while his Monstrosity depends on the cards in their hand.
Enchantments
Underworld Connections This card is fantastic to put it plainly. It provides good black devotion if you happen to be running devotion cards, and provides excellent recursive card draw for only a small price. You don't even need to run that many due to its nature of being an enchantment. Run 2, maybe 3 if you prefer.
Whip of Erebos The lifelink granted by this card is lovely. In addition to giving you much needed lifegain to counteract the lifeloss from your various spells, it also allows you to Unearth some of your creatures and swing in hard with them, allowing you to reuse bodies. Run 0-2.
Instants and Sorceries
Thoughtsieze The ability to delete a card from your opponents hand before they can do anything, and gain information about the other 6 (or less) cards they have is priceless, for only 2 life. It is important to manage your life carefully though, but a Thoughtsieze can disrupt a perfect hand and make it unplayable. Run 1-4, and should be used in tandem with Duress.
Duress This card is probably mis-raritied as a common. Anyway, this card is a 'weaker' version of Thoughtsieze, but it doesn't require the life investment. It is excellent against Control or creature light decks as it can hit their Planeswalkers, drawspells, ramp and all that. I think I'm going to run 2 of these, in addition to a Thoughtsieze.
Anger of the Gods The child of Pillar of Flame and Mizzium Mortars. It is a well priced boardwipe, effective at killing Voice of Resurgence and simply denying reanimation. Its major downside is that it costs a heavy RR1 investment, making it a bit more difficult to get out. This card will function best in the sideboard against weenie and aggro decks. Sideboard 2.
Mizzium Mortars An alternative to Anger of the Gods. It's really up to you which to use, but Mortars has a little more functionality as a cheap albeit sorcery speed removal spell, or a board wipe. Once again, probably sideboard material. Sideboard 2, or sideboard 2 Anger.
Magma Jet A strong alternative to Lightning Strike, this card exchanges the third point of damage for Scry 2. While it may fall down against decks with tankier creatures, it is a still a very strong option, especially as it is an instant and can be targeted against players. Run 2-4.
Hero's Downfall Essentially Dreadbore, but is more expensive in exchange for instant speed. Strictly better than Murder, and can slot into either the sideboard or the mainboard. Run 0-2.
Dark Betrayal Effective situationally as a replacement to Doom Blade. Should be in the side board. Run an equal number to your number of Doom Blades.
Doom Blade The best targeted removal available. Cheap and hits almost anything. Run 2-4.
Ultimate Price Next in our lineup of kill spells is this. With the dying down of 3 colour decks, I believe we are going to see alot more decks locked into 1 or 2 colours. However, we can still expect to see multicoloured creatures around with the RTR block still around. I would not run these, but if I was to I would sideboard 2.
Read the Bones While this card seems similar to Divination at a glance, it is actually very different. You'll want to watch your health when playing these, but the ability to manipulate your draw before drawing it is fantastic. It also compliments Underworld Connections nicely. Run 2-4.
Rakdos's Return Inverse Sphinx's Revelation. Premium hand disruption, and forces your opponent into topdeck mode. An excellent late game mana sink. Run 2-3, but probably 2.
Slaughter Games In my opinion, this card is better than Reap Intellect. It is uncounterable and can hit any card of your choosing, which is excellent against control decks that are heavily reliant on AEtherling to finish you off. This card is sideboard material. Sideboard 1-2.
Electrickery Sideboard against weenie or aggro decks. Cheap boardwipe that is effective under certain conditions. Sideboard x.
Artifacts
Pithing Needle Haha, Aetherling. Also good at shutting down planeswalkers you don't have an immediate answer to. Functions well in sideboard, or maybe even in your main deck. Sideboard 0-2.
Ratchet Bomb Premium boardwipe, especially against tokens. Can work in the side or main. Run 0-2 in the main and 0-1 in the side.
Rakdos Keyrune I have a bad tendency to undervalue the keyrune cycle, probably because we often forget how good some of them are. Rakdos Keyrune is definately one of that some. It can be used as ramp if you want. It dodges sorcery speed evasion and provides good, consistent damage, and can stop low toughness creatures dead in their tracks. In the last Standard, people used it because it killed Thragtusk. Think similar to that. Run 1-3.
I've included this because it leans towards a control deck more than a midrange deck, I feel. While it may fit more over at the Mythic Midrange primer, we can still get some good information out of it.
I dont like Doom Blade a lot going into the new format. There are just way better options out there, and it just has too many restrictions. I think you should cut the Doom Blades all together for more Heros Downfall and some Dreadbores.
I agree with removing Erebos. After testing your list (v.2), we found it hard to make him into a creature. Also, the early game seems a bit problematic against aggro. With all the lifeloss we incur on ourselves, we give up a lot of our remaining life to damage from fast decks.
With all removal in BR control I think wight of precinct six is very good as a 3 of in the deck. Also wrecking ogre on a desolation demon for 18 is a good turn 5 play for the win and isn't dead as a creature either since it trades with blood baron I will be running 2 at. The top of the curve.
Hey nivix what are they killing your demon with? I finding they will usually let me swing once before they start locking it down. I think with all the highly aggressive decka that will be floating around at the start of new standard that a turn 5 kill out of nowhere is a easy win against these strategies.
Hey there guys. Nice to see that some interest has been generated about this list.
Ill look to amend the OP with additional information that I have forgotten, or stuff that you guys suggested soon, but I need to finish a project over the next 2 days. Hopefully after that I can make a dent in this.
@ rcwraspy : Cool list. I see you utilise the doom blade < - > dark betrayal switch. Is it not better to just run Hero's Downfall or Dreadbore. Saves some spots and you are sure to take every creature down. Are you getting your Master of Cruelties through enemy defenses? If not, perhaps mainboard Mizzium Mortars?
Besides that, is 2 Rakdos's Return and 4 Thoughtseize enough to save your win conditions from removal? I have a lot of problems with protecting my win cons...
Thanks! Sorry for not putting any info with the list when I posted it - I was in a hurry leaving the office last night.
My list initially had 2x Rakdos Keyrune instead of the 2x Dreadbore. That may change back to 2 Keyrunes in place of Doom Blade. I really like the instant speed removal, though. But running Mutavault and Keyrune is great, especially when I swap in Anger of the Gods from the side.
That said, I don't think I need Hero's Downfall. I'm looking for double black or double red on turn 4, and looking for it earlier is a stretch. Of course, that's where putting keyrunes back comes in.
RE: protecting my threats. I find that people really focus fire on Young Pyromancer and Desecration Demon. The thought was that with all the removal and with Chandra's +1 falter effect, I can get Master in pretty frequently. Then finish it off with all the burn I have. And when I can't get him thorugh, he's an amazing blocker with first strike and deathtouch.
I really like even swaps from the side. Against aggro I take out 4 YP and bring in 4 Anger, for instance. All my other "creatures" - Demon, Master, Mutavault, and Keyrune - survive it.
@Rigval : Anger of the Gods can kill your own creatures too, which seems annoying and uneffective. Blood Scrivener and Deathrite Shaman seem unimpressive to use your Whip of Erebos on, perhaps cut the Whip of Erebos in your decklist?
You can use Underworld Connections for your devotion count and card draw, it is a bit slow though. Your removal (sorceries and instants) are not efficient with getting your devotion counter up so you should ask yourself: am I going to focus on devotion (Gray Merchant of Asphodel or 'burn' (with Blood Scrivener and Deathrite Shaman)?
Yeap, you are right. After testing chage list to this
I'm really enjoying playing this and I might make it my main Standard deck. R/B just has so much going for it in this current meta with all the best creature removal for aggro/midrange and hand stripping for control.
Not completely sold on Doom Blade mainboard yet, just because I'm running so many Dreadbore as it is. Might change the maindeck to Devour Flesh for it, not sure yet though.
Against control Slaughter Games x3 and Duress x1 get sided in for any variation of creature removal. Normally Doom Blade + Hero's Downfall. Possible addition of Devour Flesh to stop BBV, but not necessary. EDIT: I'm going to take out 2x Desecration Demon for 3x Lifebane Zombie if facing America or Esper, because a) they hit Blood Baron and b) Desecration Demon gets annihilated by control between Verdict, D sphere, and Azorius Charm.
EDIT: I played a tournament on cockatrice and came in 3rd out of 16, but I wasn't satisfied with a few cards. Abhorrent Overlord is decent but he's the same p/t as Desecration Demon for 3 more mana.. which is way too much. Yeah, he comes with some sidekicks but I think that 7 is just way too high on the curve. I want to move away from the whole Devotion thing so I'm dropping Gray Merchant as well, even though he performed quite well, he just wasn't a strong enough beater for his mana cost. Replacing them both with hasty beats that are cheaper.
This should help me close out games easier. Both exava and stormbreath do a lot of damage the turn they come down, and even though they don't avoid removal, hopefully I'll have picked off most removal from midrange/control decks by then with Thoughtseize or RR. They absolutely **** on aggro.
I'd also like to point out Desecration Demon is pretty bad for the control matchup. He gets D-sphered or Azorius Charmed 90% of the time, if he's not countered. Rakdos Keyrune and Mutavault are absolute powerhouses in that matchup.
So after doing a ton of playtesting last night with both my aggro deck and my Rakdos control, this archetype certainly felt alot more refreshing (been playing aggro for awhile now) so here is my take on it:
Not too much different then what alot of people have figured out. I feel that too many guild gates hurt. Sure its fine against control but against aggro they fall flat, heck even against control when you are trying to force threats through counterspells.
Yes, I am running both the overlord and Erebos. So Far I like them both. The overlord is as close to grave titan as we are gonna get and worse case scenario erebos is Greed. Everytime I got him out my opponents were not happy or "wasted" a detention sphere on him. Hero's Downfall > Dreadbore imo. Never dying to obzedat is really nice. Devour flesh and mizzium mortars hits blood baron (those two feel like the biggest threats to this deck) and erebos goes honey badger about devour flesh.
I kinda want to run Underworld Connections since I'm running erebos and the overlord but erebos and UC pretty much do the same thing, with erebos sometimes beating face. It would take some spots of Read the bones and that card is way to good.
I like the keyrune. Alot actually. I just don't know what to take out for it other then Magma Jet and I really like digging even more for a creature removal.
I think Shadowborn Demon deserves some mention. Seems pretty good with the Whip of Erebos and if you're going the creature-heavy approach he might actually stick around.
Been playtesting this deck quite a bit - found a few things out.
Gray Merchant just seems to slow - unless you curved out perfectly and went t3 Lifebane, t4 whip or desecration demon, t5 this, you really aren't getting enough out of it for a 5 drop. It shines with whip and reccuring it, of course but as you are running 1-2 copies usually of whip, it's hard to rely on.
Also, sideboard notes - Hammer of Purphoros is insane against any control decks - if that stick's you can usually win those games handidly. Elspeth has been a bit of a problem, but between 6 or so dreadbore/hero's downfall you should be fine - and you can always throw a few Illness in the Ranks if you are really concerned. I was running mizzium mortars for problem guys and blood baron, but devour flesh seems better on paper - being able to devour flesh your own guys if you are low on life against aggro is a neat trick.
BG midrange player here, just want to suggest testing Shadowborn Demon and it's interaction with Whip of Erebos. Will also start to test BR once i get a hold of some angers.
Underworld Cerberus : Gone! I have tried, and tried, and tried but it just isn't working good enough. Can't whip him, can't target creatures in GY when he is on the battlefield, and most of the time there aren't a lot of creatures to bounce back to my hand anyway. Perhaps as a 1 off in sideboard vs graveyard manipulating decks?
Yes, this card is very good looking, but we can not use this.
My build has very stable play vs RDW and Aggro, but now i'm planning to change Underworld Cerberus to one Erebos, God of the Dead for games with midrange|control decks
My last list
I've been loving this card in my midrange BR. The deck runs differently, but Hammer does crush control.
Does no one like mindsparker? Blocks aggro, burns azorius. It's bad against jund style decks and the mirror, but I expect the first two to be more common.
On mindsparker, double red can be hard to get on T3 sometimes, it's really not that great against aggro - I'd rather have more removal - and against control there is much better cards to bring in.
I've dropped my Whip of Erebos down to 1, and I may even cut it completely or put it to the board - against aggro you really cant spend your turn 4 doing nothing, it's actually better against other midrange/control decks who will be killing your dragons/demons. Was debating on cutting it and 1 land to fit in 2 thoughtseize main deck.
Anyone have any thought on 25 versus 26 lands? With read the bones and 3 rakdo's keyrunes it feels like you can drop it to 25 but you want to make every land drop.
Rigval, how is the grey merchant working for you? My local meta is FLOODED with B/G aggro/midrange. So usually when I drop a creature it's instant death to putrefy. Granted my win cons haven't hit the board and aparently the only thing I draw after sire is lands and my opponents get their removal (the rng gods have turned their back on me!).
I'm wondering because after a large playtest session I'm actually gonna drop Abhorrent Overlord for Hythonia the Cruel. Puts me up to 8 board wipes with her and she does trade with anything and everything on the ground and post monstrous tends to eat face.
I was looking at the grey merchant because of my constant life loss and doming someone for X is awesome (esp with the whip).
For reference after a huge playtest session on saturday and fnm this is what I have wound up with this list (off topic, why is the word "wound" pronounced differently if you add the word "up" after it?):
I still like slaughter games over the needle against something like U/W control for the fact that I can eat aetherling before he hits the field (or elspeth, but she is less of a worry with hero's downfall). I'd probably try stormbreath dragon if he wasn't so expensive but like I said earlier, my meta is WEIRD so its hard testing (having a really hard time with regenerate).
Weird no one has posted this already but here are the 2 R/B Midrange/Control decks that have placed in the two big tournaments this past weekend. Both decks appear to be highly inspired by the Gerry Thompson SCG B/R Article. Looks like this is a nice shell to build off of that is having some results.
What and Why?
Red Black control is a far more aggressive form of control than Esper, BUG and other control variants. It utilizes instant removal and hand disruption to force your opponent to play in a stressful situation with limited options.
Red Black control is slightly less grindy than a typical control deck, featuring more creatures, no counterspells and more self damage.
Why should you play this deck?
Why shouldn't you play this deck? It features everything from big creatures to boardwipes to drawspells and Gods. It even has lifegain to keep you alive while you're spending your life on getting greater card advantage, while punishing your opponents life and forcing them into topdeck mode.
Card Choices
Creatures
Crypt Ghast Our bread and butter ramp card. Because this deck is mostly black, he effectively doubles your mana output. He can also provide some small yet repeatable lifegain through Extort, and is a decent body for attacking with. Run 4.
Desecration Demon Our iconic finisher. Cheap to cast, evasive, and can offer straight damage or board lockdown by forcing opponents to sacrifice creatures. Run 3-4.
Sire of Insanity This card is a bit stranger. It wrecks your hand in exchange for wrecking your opponents hand, forcing both of you into topdeck mode. However, you can win the topdeck war with assistance from powerful draw spells such as Read the Bones Underworld Connections and Erebos, God of the Dead. You can run any amount; I will be running 3.
Nightveil Specter Personally, I really like this card. While it has a very heavy black investment, it allows us to steal cards from our opponent and help us to make land drops, even if they are in the wrong colour. I've done a small amount of testing with this guy, and what he does he does quite well. It's also nice that he's flying, even if he only does hit for 2. Run 0-2, but he's under testing.
Underworld Cerberus This card functions as an excellent finisher. It's a 5 drop 6/6 with pseudo-evasion that can put a dead halt to decks that are heavy on graveyard interaction. Reports have suggested that his gameplay is not as good as it appears on paper. Maybe he functions best as a sideboard card? Run 0-2.
Blood Scrivener This card is a bit stranger. He looks similar to Dark Confidant, but is very situational. From research I have done, I have concluded this card is not very good. By all means run him, but expect to dislike him fairly quickly. Run 0-4, but I would recommend 0.
Lifebane Zombie This card effectively has unblockable. It's also nice that he has a strong ETB effect, even if it only hits GW colours. He can also function as a threatening blocker, should the need arise. I would personally sideboard 0-3 of this guy.
Erebos, God of the Dead This card's quality remains to be seen. The recursion of his card draw ability is nice, but comes at quite a cost of 2 mana and 2 life. The anti life gain is fantastic, but only in particular matchups. It's quite possible that this card is sideboard gear, but we'll see as the deck is refined.
Master of Cruelties He seems a bit gimmicky, but he might have potential. I will test him for now. Excellent kill 'spell' with recursion, and the ability to drop your opponent to one life is no laughing matter. However, he does require red and black mana unlike Desecration Demon.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel This is a card I feel deserves a mention. While control decks aren't the most devotion heavy, he still provides some good lifegain, and on a reasonable body if a bit expensive. In testing.
Stormbreath Dragon This is our new Hellkite. It makes a good finisher and for a good reason. With protection from white, it dodges cards such as Azorius Charm, Chained to the Rocks and Detention Sphere. Not only that, but it also makes use of a handy flying and haste, ensuring you hit hard on the turn he comes down. Oh, and he can grow. The only issue is that he has a high R investment and we play a hand disruption style, while his Monstrosity depends on the cards in their hand.
Enchantments
Underworld Connections This card is fantastic to put it plainly. It provides good black devotion if you happen to be running devotion cards, and provides excellent recursive card draw for only a small price. You don't even need to run that many due to its nature of being an enchantment. Run 2, maybe 3 if you prefer.
Whip of Erebos The lifelink granted by this card is lovely. In addition to giving you much needed lifegain to counteract the lifeloss from your various spells, it also allows you to Unearth some of your creatures and swing in hard with them, allowing you to reuse bodies. Run 0-2.
Instants and Sorceries
Thoughtsieze The ability to delete a card from your opponents hand before they can do anything, and gain information about the other 6 (or less) cards they have is priceless, for only 2 life. It is important to manage your life carefully though, but a Thoughtsieze can disrupt a perfect hand and make it unplayable. Run 1-4, and should be used in tandem with Duress.
Duress This card is probably mis-raritied as a common. Anyway, this card is a 'weaker' version of Thoughtsieze, but it doesn't require the life investment. It is excellent against Control or creature light decks as it can hit their Planeswalkers, drawspells, ramp and all that. I think I'm going to run 2 of these, in addition to a Thoughtsieze.
Anger of the Gods The child of Pillar of Flame and Mizzium Mortars. It is a well priced boardwipe, effective at killing Voice of Resurgence and simply denying reanimation. Its major downside is that it costs a heavy RR1 investment, making it a bit more difficult to get out. This card will function best in the sideboard against weenie and aggro decks. Sideboard 2.
Mizzium Mortars An alternative to Anger of the Gods. It's really up to you which to use, but Mortars has a little more functionality as a cheap albeit sorcery speed removal spell, or a board wipe. Once again, probably sideboard material. Sideboard 2, or sideboard 2 Anger.
Magma Jet A strong alternative to Lightning Strike, this card exchanges the third point of damage for Scry 2. While it may fall down against decks with tankier creatures, it is a still a very strong option, especially as it is an instant and can be targeted against players. Run 2-4.
Lightning Strike An alternative to Magma Jet Jet is better the majority of the time.
Hero's Downfall Essentially Dreadbore, but is more expensive in exchange for instant speed. Strictly better than Murder, and can slot into either the sideboard or the mainboard. Run 0-2.
Dark Betrayal Effective situationally as a replacement to Doom Blade. Should be in the side board. Run an equal number to your number of Doom Blades.
Doom Blade The best targeted removal available. Cheap and hits almost anything. Run 2-4.
Ultimate Price Next in our lineup of kill spells is this. With the dying down of 3 colour decks, I believe we are going to see alot more decks locked into 1 or 2 colours. However, we can still expect to see multicoloured creatures around with the RTR block still around. I would not run these, but if I was to I would sideboard 2.
Read the Bones While this card seems similar to Divination at a glance, it is actually very different. You'll want to watch your health when playing these, but the ability to manipulate your draw before drawing it is fantastic. It also compliments Underworld Connections nicely. Run 2-4.
Rakdos's Return Inverse Sphinx's Revelation. Premium hand disruption, and forces your opponent into topdeck mode. An excellent late game mana sink. Run 2-3, but probably 2.
Slaughter Games In my opinion, this card is better than Reap Intellect. It is uncounterable and can hit any card of your choosing, which is excellent against control decks that are heavily reliant on AEtherling to finish you off. This card is sideboard material. Sideboard 1-2.
Devour Flesh Sideboard against Hexproof or Fleecemane Lion. You can probably eat your own Grey Merchant, if you need to. Sideboard x.
Electrickery Sideboard against weenie or aggro decks. Cheap boardwipe that is effective under certain conditions. Sideboard x.
Artifacts
Pithing Needle Haha, Aetherling. Also good at shutting down planeswalkers you don't have an immediate answer to. Functions well in sideboard, or maybe even in your main deck. Sideboard 0-2.
Ratchet Bomb Premium boardwipe, especially against tokens. Can work in the side or main. Run 0-2 in the main and 0-1 in the side.
Rakdos Keyrune I have a bad tendency to undervalue the keyrune cycle, probably because we often forget how good some of them are. Rakdos Keyrune is definately one of that some. It can be used as ramp if you want. It dodges sorcery speed evasion and provides good, consistent damage, and can stop low toughness creatures dead in their tracks. In the last Standard, people used it because it killed Thragtusk. Think similar to that. Run 1-3.
Decklists
Sample Decklist - Version One
3 Sire of Insanity
4 Desecration Demon
4 Crypt Ghast
2 Underworld Cerberus
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Dark Realms
4 Read the Bones
4 Magma Jet
4 Thoughtsieze
3 Doom Blade
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Underworld Connections
1 Whip of Erebos
16 Swamp
5 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
Sample Decklist - Version Two
1 Underworld Cerberus
3 Desecration Demon
4 Crypt Ghast
Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Artifacts
2 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Haunted Plate Mail
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Duress
1 Thoughtsieze
3 Read the Bones
2 Underworld Connections
2 Magma Jet
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Dreadbore
2 Devour Flesh
3 Doom Blade
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Blood Crypt
16 Swamp
4 Mountain
Hien Nguyen's WBR Control
I've included this because it leans towards a control deck more than a midrange deck, I feel. While it may fit more over at the Mythic Midrange primer, we can still get some good information out of it.
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Desecration Demon
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands (25)
4 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
2 Rakdos Keyrune
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Doom Blade
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rakdos's Return
3 Read the Bones
1 Pithing Needle
2 Underworld Connections
2 Shock
2 Wear
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize
Lukas Jaklovsky's Deck used at Pro Tour Theros
4 Desecration Demon
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Hand Disruption (5)
3 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos's Return
Removal (20)
4 Read the Bones
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Devour Flesh
2 Magma Jet
2 Doom Blade
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Land (26)
4 Mutavault
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos GUildgate
6 Swamp
7 Mountain
1 Temple of Silence (Only used for Scry)
4 Duress
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Doom Blade
2 Underworld Connections
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Thoughtseize
2 Shock
Strategy and Matchups
Coming soon
Footnote: First primer. Any feedback is appreciated, and I will work to fix up mistakes I have made and improve it.
4x Blood Scrivener
4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Sire Of Insanity
1x Underworld Cerberus
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
Sorcery (12)
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Dreadbore
2x Mizzium Mortars
1x Rakdos's Return
4x Read the Bones
2x Whip of Erebos
Land (24)
4x Blood Crypt
8x Mountain
4x Rakdos Guildgate
8x Swamp
Ill look to amend the OP with additional information that I have forgotten, or stuff that you guys suggested soon, but I need to finish a project over the next 2 days. Hopefully after that I can make a dent in this.
4x Blood Crypt
7x Mountain
3x Mutavault
4x Rakdos Guildgate
7x Swamp
Instant (10)
2x Doom Blade
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
2x Rakdos's Return
3x Read the Bones
4x Thoughtseize
2x Dreadbore
Creature (10)
4x Desecration Demon
2x Master of Cruelties
4x Young Pyromancer
Planeswalker (4)
4x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Anger of the Gods
2x Dark Betrayal
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Flames of the Firebrand
2x Peak Eruption
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Underworld Connections
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
3 Wight of Precinct Six
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
2 Wrecking Ogre
Instant
3 Magma Jet
3 Hero's Downfall
Sorcery
4 Dreadbore
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Read the Bones
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
10 Swamp
7 Mountain
3 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Underworld Connections
3 Slaughter Games
2 Sire of Insanity
Sideboard is still a work in progress.
Thanks! Sorry for not putting any info with the list when I posted it - I was in a hurry leaving the office last night.
My list initially had 2x Rakdos Keyrune instead of the 2x Dreadbore. That may change back to 2 Keyrunes in place of Doom Blade. I really like the instant speed removal, though. But running Mutavault and Keyrune is great, especially when I swap in Anger of the Gods from the side.
That said, I don't think I need Hero's Downfall. I'm looking for double black or double red on turn 4, and looking for it earlier is a stretch. Of course, that's where putting keyrunes back comes in.
RE: protecting my threats. I find that people really focus fire on Young Pyromancer and Desecration Demon. The thought was that with all the removal and with Chandra's +1 falter effect, I can get Master in pretty frequently. Then finish it off with all the burn I have. And when I can't get him thorugh, he's an amazing blocker with first strike and deathtouch.
I really like even swaps from the side. Against aggro I take out 4 YP and bring in 4 Anger, for instance. All my other "creatures" - Demon, Master, Mutavault, and Keyrune - survive it.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Yeap, you are right. After testing chage list to this
2x Desecration Demon
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Sire Of Insanity
2x Underworld Cerberus
Sorcery (12)
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Dreadbore
2x Mizzium Mortars
1x Rakdos's Return
4x Read the Bones
4x Devour Flesh
4x Magma Jet
Artifact (8)
2x Whip of Erebos
3x Rakdos Keyrune
3x Ratchet Bomb
Land (24)
4x Blood Crypt
6x Mountain
4x Rakdos Guildgate
10x Swamp
2 Rakdos Keyrune
2 Whip of Erebos
Creature
3 Desecration Demon
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Enchantment
1 Underworld Connections
Instant
4 Magma Jet
2 Doom Blade
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Dreadbore
4 Thoughtseize
4 Read the Bones
2 Rakdos' Return
2 Mizzium Mortars
Land
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mutavault
8 Swamp
6 Mountain
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Slaughter Games
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Devour Flesh
1 Duress
Not completely sold on Doom Blade mainboard yet, just because I'm running so many Dreadbore as it is. Might change the maindeck to Devour Flesh for it, not sure yet though.
As far as sideboarding goes..
Against any G/W variant Desecration Demon comes out for Lifebane Zombie(Demon is too easily Selesnya Charmed or tapped down by Voice of Resurgence and friends.)
Against ANY aggro deck, Anger of the Gods gets slotted in for 2x Thoughtseize, 2x Rakdos's Return.
Against control Slaughter Games x3 and Duress x1 get sided in for any variation of creature removal. Normally Doom Blade + Hero's Downfall. Possible addition of Devour Flesh to stop BBV, but not necessary. EDIT: I'm going to take out 2x Desecration Demon for 3x Lifebane Zombie if facing America or Esper, because a) they hit Blood Baron and b) Desecration Demon gets annihilated by control between Verdict, D sphere, and Azorius Charm.
Against any black deck obviously Doom Blade is sided out for Dark Betrayal or Devour Flesh.
EDIT: I played a tournament on cockatrice and came in 3rd out of 16, but I wasn't satisfied with a few cards. Abhorrent Overlord is decent but he's the same p/t as Desecration Demon for 3 more mana.. which is way too much. Yeah, he comes with some sidekicks but I think that 7 is just way too high on the curve. I want to move away from the whole Devotion thing so I'm dropping Gray Merchant as well, even though he performed quite well, he just wasn't a strong enough beater for his mana cost. Replacing them both with hasty beats that are cheaper.
- Abhorrent Overlord x1
- Gray Merchant of Asphodel x3
+ Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch x2
+ Stormbreath Dragon x2
This should help me close out games easier. Both exava and stormbreath do a lot of damage the turn they come down, and even though they don't avoid removal, hopefully I'll have picked off most removal from midrange/control decks by then with Thoughtseize or RR. They absolutely **** on aggro.
I'd also like to point out Desecration Demon is pretty bad for the control matchup. He gets D-sphered or Azorius Charmed 90% of the time, if he's not countered. Rakdos Keyrune and Mutavault are absolute powerhouses in that matchup.
Username: Cabz
11 Swamp
8 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
2 Mutavault
1 Rakdos Guildgate
Creatures 8
2 Desecration Demon
2 Sire of Insanity
2 Abhorrent Overlord
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Devour Flesh
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Magma Jet
Sorceries 15
4 Read the Bones
4 Thoughtsieze
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
Artifact/Enchantment 2
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Slaughter Games
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Shock
Not too much different then what alot of people have figured out. I feel that too many guild gates hurt. Sure its fine against control but against aggro they fall flat, heck even against control when you are trying to force threats through counterspells.
Yes, I am running both the overlord and Erebos. So Far I like them both. The overlord is as close to grave titan as we are gonna get and worse case scenario erebos is Greed. Everytime I got him out my opponents were not happy or "wasted" a detention sphere on him.
Hero's Downfall > Dreadbore imo. Never dying to obzedat is really nice. Devour flesh and mizzium mortars hits blood baron (those two feel like the biggest threats to this deck) and erebos goes honey badger about devour flesh.
I kinda want to run Underworld Connections since I'm running erebos and the overlord but erebos and UC pretty much do the same thing, with erebos sometimes beating face. It would take some spots of Read the bones and that card is way to good.
I like the keyrune. Alot actually. I just don't know what to take out for it other then Magma Jet and I really like digging even more for a creature removal.
PS: Elspeth can go ROT. ROT I TELL YOU!!!
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
Gray Merchant just seems to slow - unless you curved out perfectly and went t3 Lifebane, t4 whip or desecration demon, t5 this, you really aren't getting enough out of it for a 5 drop. It shines with whip and reccuring it, of course but as you are running 1-2 copies usually of whip, it's hard to rely on.
Also, sideboard notes - Hammer of Purphoros is insane against any control decks - if that stick's you can usually win those games handidly. Elspeth has been a bit of a problem, but between 6 or so dreadbore/hero's downfall you should be fine - and you can always throw a few Illness in the Ranks if you are really concerned. I was running mizzium mortars for problem guys and blood baron, but devour flesh seems better on paper - being able to devour flesh your own guys if you are low on life against aggro is a neat trick.
Yes, this card is very good looking, but we can not use this.
My build has very stable play vs RDW and Aggro, but now i'm planning to change Underworld Cerberus to one Erebos, God of the Dead for games with midrange|control decks
My last list
4x Desecration Demon
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Sire Of Insanity
Sorcery (13)
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Dreadbore
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Rakdos's Return
3x Read the Bones
3x Devour Flesh
1x Doom Blade
4x Magma Jet
Artifact (3)
3x Rakdos Keyrune
2x Whip of Erebos
Land (24)
4x Blood Crypt
5x Mountain
4x Rakdos Guildgate
11x Swamp
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
4x Skullcrack
4x Thoughtseize
On mindsparker, double red can be hard to get on T3 sometimes, it's really not that great against aggro - I'd rather have more removal - and against control there is much better cards to bring in.
I've dropped my Whip of Erebos down to 1, and I may even cut it completely or put it to the board - against aggro you really cant spend your turn 4 doing nothing, it's actually better against other midrange/control decks who will be killing your dragons/demons. Was debating on cutting it and 1 land to fit in 2 thoughtseize main deck.
Anyone have any thought on 25 versus 26 lands? With read the bones and 3 rakdo's keyrunes it feels like you can drop it to 25 but you want to make every land drop.
I'm wondering because after a large playtest session I'm actually gonna drop Abhorrent Overlord for Hythonia the Cruel. Puts me up to 8 board wipes with her and she does trade with anything and everything on the ground and post monstrous tends to eat face.
I was looking at the grey merchant because of my constant life loss and doming someone for X is awesome (esp with the whip).
For reference after a huge playtest session on saturday and fnm this is what I have wound up with this list (off topic, why is the word "wound" pronounced differently if you add the word "up" after it?):
10 Swamp
7 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mutavault
2 Rakdos Guildgate
Creatures 8
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Desecration Demon
2 Hythonia the Cruel
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Devour Flesh
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Magma Jet
Sorceries 15
4 Read the Bones
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
Artifact/Enchantment 3
2 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Slaughter Games
3 Shock
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Sire of Insanity
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Thoughtsieze
I still like slaughter games over the needle against something like U/W control for the fact that I can eat aetherling before he hits the field (or elspeth, but she is less of a worry with hero's downfall). I'd probably try stormbreath dragon if he wasn't so expensive but like I said earlier, my meta is WEIRD so its hard testing (having a really hard time with regenerate).
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
Why do you have 2 Deathmark in the SB? They haven't been Standard legal in a while right?
Whoops, copy paste from word. Those are actually Dark Betrayal (I kept getting the names mixed up before the set released).
Uh...I mean....I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THOSE ARE DARK BETRAYALS!!!!!1111
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
3 Desecration Demon
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Artifacts
2 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Whip of Erebos
Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
Spells
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Devour Flesh
2 Dreadbore
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Read the Bones
2 Shock
4 Blood Crypt
6 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate
8 Swamp
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Devour Flesh
1 Duress
1 Lifebane Zombie
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Shock
1 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thoughtseize
1 Trading Post
3 Underworld Connections
3 Desecration Demon
4 Lifebane Zombie
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Artifacts
3 Rakdos Keyrune
Spells
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Devour Flesh
4 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Read the Bones
2 Shock
2 Thoughtseize
2 Underworld Connections
4 Blood Crypt
6 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate
8 Swamp
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Duress
2 Electrickery
1 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Mizzium Mortars