If you are playing a control shell willing a slightly splash I'd recommend you Mind Grind. Much more efficient than Psychic Spiral or Traumatize, and the B cost isn't prohibitive also.
I have a bad taste in my mouth about Mind Grind. It worked well when there were decks running around Farseeking themselves to death but now it just seems like a dead card in hand. I've been screwed over one too many times by random decks at FNM running more than the normal land count, example: a rakdos aggro deck running 34 lands...
Traumatize is just..more reliable, than Mind Grind. If anything, I can see using Mind Grind as a 1-of finisher, after popping a Traumatize. It's just too much of a game ending card. say you have...40 cards in your deck, I traumatize you for 20. You are now on a 1 turn clock if I resolve a Jace, Memory Adept or if I play 20 spells and Psychic Spiral you, which 20 spells in a control shell is not hard to blow through, especially if you splash red and run Thoughtflare and Steam Augury.
It also works well with Crypt Incursion in a sense that I can mill half your deck, and then follow up with stupid amounts of life gain that also shuts down Whip of Erebos
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I play a grixis mill control shell with aetherling as back up, i gotta say, i love the red splash as compared to the white. Yeah the white can give you verdict, but anger of the gods is just amazing if you can reach the mythical two red, which considering you can run 8 dual lands with a red sign it works pretty well. I run magma jet as well so I have found that the red really adds to the consistency and survivalist of the deck as a whole. Also just saying, steam augury is amazing. I also play two mind grind rather than physic spiral as it just works better, you can have your sphinx rev, or your domri, or master of waves, I blow out your lands.with access to dreadbore as well, elspeth and other walkers never worry me
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
I'm going to do a quick update later this week. Long story short: I'm getting mauled by these devotion lists. Crypt Incursion remains awesome because of the high creature density of many lists, and the general strategy is still strong versus control. But the damage output of many of these list is just too high even for Incursion in many cases.
I have a bad taste in my mouth about Mind Grind. It worked well when there were decks running around Farseeking themselves to death but now it just seems like a dead card in hand. I've been screwed over one too many times by random decks at FNM running more than the normal land count, example: a rakdos aggro deck running 34 lands...
Traumatize is just..more reliable, than Mind Grind. If anything, I can see using Mind Grind as a 1-of finisher, after popping a Traumatize. It's just too much of a game ending card. say you have...40 cards in your deck, I traumatize you for 20. You are now on a 1 turn clock if I resolve a Jace, Memory Adept or if I play 20 spells and Psychic Spiral you, which 20 spells in a control shell is not hard to blow through, especially if you splash red and run Thoughtflare and Steam Augury.
It also works well with Crypt Incursion in a sense that I can mill half your deck, and then follow up with stupid amounts of life gain that also shuts down Whip of Erebos
Well, when we discuss competitive buildings we hardly consider something like a 34-land deck, at least in standard.
Keep in mind that Traumatize is a card that is only decent strictly in crucial turns (5th~6th), while getting worse each turn after that, and NEVER will win the game for you.
Psychic Spiral is poor since UBx Mill lists aren't too proactive and you can sit with a lot of cards in hand - useless counters against fast aggro, spot removal against hard control - so you'll not fill your graveyard this often to make it worth.
I know that the best case scenario 'T5 Traumatize, T6 Jace' seems nuts, but as a very control oriented list you need better late game top decks than some strictly mid-game winnable plan.
I'm going to do a quick update later this week. Long story short: I'm getting mauled by these devotion lists. Crypt Incursion remains awesome because of the high creature density of many lists, and the general strategy is still strong versus control. But the damage output of many of these list is just too high even for Incursion in many cases.
The devotion decks can do a MAJOR life-point swing (see Frank Lepore's video/article yesterday for further proof). The cards providing that swing are just creatures: Gray Merchant of Asphodel & Fanatic of Mogis. Essence Scatter is a simple solution to these cards. I don't see why they shouldn't be given serious MD consideration here as well (other than the fact that they're just 1-for-1s). As far as Mono-U devotion, they're very susceptible to sweepers as are R/X devotion-based decks. Another SB option to consider could be Merciless Eviction as this exiles whatever we need/want. I'm not sold on Dimir Charm, but as I haven't come up with my own list yet, I'll take your word for it being decent. That being said, it would be the first card I'd look at turning into Essence Scatters. Lastly, I know you like the instant speed of Ray of Dissolution, but have you tested Solemn Offering? Yes it's a Sorcery, but it also gets rid of Whips and Hammers.
Well, when we discuss competitive buildings we hardly consider something like a 34-land deck, at least in standard.
Keep in mind that Traumatize is a card that is only decent strictly in crucial turns (5th~6th), while getting worse each turn after that, and NEVER will win the game for you.
Psychic Spiral is poor since UBx Mill lists aren't too proactive and you can sit with a lot of cards in hand - useless counters against fast aggro, spot removal against hard control - so you'll not fill your graveyard this often to make it worth.
I know that the best case scenario 'T5 Traumatize, T6 Jace' seems nuts, but as a very control oriented list you need better late game top decks than some strictly mid-game winnable plan.
I agree with much of this. Traumatize is crazy-good when you can hit it on-curve and Psychic Spiral, in my opinion anyway, works best in a self-milling or mirror match.
I know that Consuming Aberration was discounted in the primer with valid points, but has anyone tried a singleton of it? I used to use it in BUG pre-Theros and it's absolutely nuts if you get to untap with it. Maybe removing the 2 Traumatizes for and additional Jace and an Aberration.
I'm interested to here all of your feedback on this and am looking forward to helping this thread develop!
So this is my list. I am fully aware this is not all out on the mill strategy like most of the decks here. With that said I do mill half my games to victory. It's a very different take on the deck entirely. More a dimir control style of a deck.
If you guys feel like this list is way off topic feel free to remove my post. Also to the post above. I use aberration as one of and I friggin love it. He has just straight up won games on turn 6. Anyways feel free to comment or remove the post. Any constructive criticism is always welcome.
Hi all, I thought I'd give my two cents here too. I'd like to see a decent mill deck do some work for a change.
I know that Consuming Aberration was discounted in the primer with valid points, but has anyone tried a singleton of it? I used to use it in BUG pre-Theros and it's absolutely nuts if you get to untap with it. Maybe removing the 2 Traumatizes for and additional Jace and an Aberration.
I'm interested to here all of your feedback on this and am looking forward to helping this thread develop!
Actually Consuming Aberration can be a good addition as a singleton MD or even 2~3-of SB material. The dude has some kind of resilience (can't be targeted by Doom Blade nor Ultimate Price, and usually will be out of Burn range) and with a control shell it would not be that hard for us to play it with mana up to counter any removal ahead. An alternative wincon which doesn't demand much changes from the conventional buildings.
Here is what I've been trying to get work. After playing Esper for a long time, I wanted to try Grixis. I believe anything running Black is in GREAT shape due to Thoughtseize and Hero's Downfall. Splashing red gives us Dreadbore and slaughter games. It also gives access to other removal cards that are necessary for handling specific threats, like Turn // Burn for silly things like Blood Baron of the Vizkopa.
Here's a list I took 4-1 (technically 3-1, i got round one bye) last FNM. I did drop the whole Traumatize // Psychic Spiral combo in exchange for another Ashiok and two Jace, Architect. I DID run a singleton Consuming Aberration and it was WONDERFUL when it appeared.
Here is what I've been trying to get work. After playing Esper for a long time, I wanted to try Grixis. I believe anything running Black is in GREAT shape due to Thoughtseize and Hero's Downfall. Splashing red gives us Dreadbore and slaughter games. It also gives access to other removal cards that are necessary for handling specific threats, like Turn // Burn for silly things like Blood Baron of the Vizkopa.
Here's a list I took 4-1 (technically 3-1, i got round one bye) last FNM. I did drop the whole Traumatize // Psychic Spiral combo in exchange for another Ashiok and two Jace, Architect. I DID run a singleton Consuming Aberration and it was WONDERFUL when it appeared.
Looks awesome! I'm still on the fence about splashing either red or white. Regardless, I have about 3 Jace's in my 75.
Guess this also answers my question on Mirko vs Consuming as well. I like Mirko because he's pretty much a Mind Funeral with a body but you have to hit. So that's my main issue with him. I'll try Consuming out next chance I get.
Hasn't been working so well as of late. A lot of G/B Decks running around my LGS which stomps my deck due to them playing off their graveyard. I've also noticed that I'm extremely lacking on card draw. I'm either going to toy with flipping some cards around to get more card draw (may have to sacrifice counter spells) or just flip to Esper in order to gain access to Sphinx's Revelation
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Hasn't been working so well as of late. A lot of G/B Decks running around my LGS which stomps my deck due to them playing off their graveyard. I've also noticed that I'm extremely lacking on card draw. I'm either going to toy with flipping some cards around to get more card draw (may have to sacrifice counter spells) or just flip to Esper in order to gain access to Sphinx's Revelation
If you do splash white/go to esper, the list I am making on the side has Rest in Peace in the sideboard. This helps for Reanimator decks and BG dredge.
I ran into a ton of trouble trying to run this deck against the super high-damage devotion decks in the format, so I shelved it for a bit. We have problems with decks that play low creature counts but still deal a lot of damage with those creatures, because they render Incursion a lot less effective. But the recent UW Control resurgence at last weekend's SCG Open makes this deck a lot more attractive. So maybe I'll try it out again this Friday and see how things go.
ONe thing I do want to try to toy around with is 4 color control. With all the different scry lands, it's very well possible to cycle your deck enough to hit the answers when you need it. The only downfall is that any deck that focuses on hand disruption will wreck your day...aka any deck running black.
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My current list. Returned Phalanx and Desecration Demon are great walls that can win the game through damage if need be. Plus, Ashiok's -X can get more beaters if I have to go the beatdown route.
With the addition of whelming wave and drown in sorrow i think you could easily make a pure black/blue control mill deck. I have found success with those board wipes in keeping nearly every creature based deck in check. My win con is more rediculous than yours but can win the game out of no where. I flash in notion thief and play whispering madness to pull out psychic spiral that turn and proceed to deck the opponent the next turn. My biggest challange has been trying to figure out alt win cons for the deck. Atm lazav and aetherling are my way to provide a big threat. Deck still is in testing so it has flaws but my current version stalls long enough to get the win but i want to raise its win percent against the more popular decks. Seriously though whelming wave does a lot of work for this deck.
I have a bad taste in my mouth about Mind Grind. It worked well when there were decks running around Farseeking themselves to death but now it just seems like a dead card in hand. I've been screwed over one too many times by random decks at FNM running more than the normal land count, example: a rakdos aggro deck running 34 lands...
Traumatize is just..more reliable, than Mind Grind. If anything, I can see using Mind Grind as a 1-of finisher, after popping a Traumatize. It's just too much of a game ending card. say you have...40 cards in your deck, I traumatize you for 20. You are now on a 1 turn clock if I resolve a Jace, Memory Adept or if I play 20 spells and Psychic Spiral you, which 20 spells in a control shell is not hard to blow through, especially if you splash red and run Thoughtflare and Steam Augury.
It also works well with Crypt Incursion in a sense that I can mill half your deck, and then follow up with stupid amounts of life gain that also shuts down Whip of Erebos
Co-Owner / Systems Administrator
Fail Gaming
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Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
I'm going to do a quick update later this week. Long story short: I'm getting mauled by these devotion lists. Crypt Incursion remains awesome because of the high creature density of many lists, and the general strategy is still strong versus control. But the damage output of many of these list is just too high even for Incursion in many cases.
Well, when we discuss competitive buildings we hardly consider something like a 34-land deck, at least in standard.
Keep in mind that Traumatize is a card that is only decent strictly in crucial turns (5th~6th), while getting worse each turn after that, and NEVER will win the game for you.
Psychic Spiral is poor since UBx Mill lists aren't too proactive and you can sit with a lot of cards in hand - useless counters against fast aggro, spot removal against hard control - so you'll not fill your graveyard this often to make it worth.
I know that the best case scenario 'T5 Traumatize, T6 Jace' seems nuts, but as a very control oriented list you need better late game top decks than some strictly mid-game winnable plan.
The devotion decks can do a MAJOR life-point swing (see Frank Lepore's video/article yesterday for further proof). The cards providing that swing are just creatures: Gray Merchant of Asphodel & Fanatic of Mogis. Essence Scatter is a simple solution to these cards. I don't see why they shouldn't be given serious MD consideration here as well (other than the fact that they're just 1-for-1s). As far as Mono-U devotion, they're very susceptible to sweepers as are R/X devotion-based decks. Another SB option to consider could be Merciless Eviction as this exiles whatever we need/want. I'm not sold on Dimir Charm, but as I haven't come up with my own list yet, I'll take your word for it being decent. That being said, it would be the first card I'd look at turning into Essence Scatters. Lastly, I know you like the instant speed of Ray of Dissolution, but have you tested Solemn Offering? Yes it's a Sorcery, but it also gets rid of Whips and Hammers.
I agree with much of this. Traumatize is crazy-good when you can hit it on-curve and Psychic Spiral, in my opinion anyway, works best in a self-milling or mirror match.
I know that Consuming Aberration was discounted in the primer with valid points, but has anyone tried a singleton of it? I used to use it in BUG pre-Theros and it's absolutely nuts if you get to untap with it. Maybe removing the 2 Traumatizes for and additional Jace and an Aberration.
I'm interested to here all of your feedback on this and am looking forward to helping this thread develop!
If you guys feel like this list is way off topic feel free to remove my post. Also to the post above. I use aberration as one of and I friggin love it. He has just straight up won games on turn 6. Anyways feel free to comment or remove the post. Any constructive criticism is always welcome.
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Devour Flesh
2x Doom Blade
3x Far / Away
4x Hero's Downfall
2x Psychic Strike
3x Syncopate
2x Ultimate Price
Creature (7)
1x Consuming Aberration
3x Desecration Demon
3x Returned Phalanx
3x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (7)
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Jace, Memory Adept
Land (24)
6x Island
2x Mutavault
8x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
2x Claustrophobia
2x Dark Betrayal
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
3x Lifebane Zombie
1x Negate
2x Notion Thief
2x Pharika's Cure
1x Psychic Strike
1x Reap Intellect
Actually Consuming Aberration can be a good addition as a singleton MD or even 2~3-of SB material. The dude has some kind of resilience (can't be targeted by Doom Blade nor Ultimate Price, and usually will be out of Burn range) and with a control shell it would not be that hard for us to play it with mana up to counter any removal ahead. An alternative wincon which doesn't demand much changes from the conventional buildings.
Here's a list I took 4-1 (technically 3-1, i got round one bye) last FNM. I did drop the whole Traumatize // Psychic Spiral combo in exchange for another Ashiok and two Jace, Architect. I DID run a singleton Consuming Aberration and it was WONDERFUL when it appeared.
The full report is located http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=549482&page=2 but a quick overview: Ashiok/Slaughter Games stole the game vs USA Control and Consuming Aberration stole the game against U/W Auras and Mono-red.
1x AEtherling
1x Consuming Aberration
Planeswalkers
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Counterspells
3x Psychic Strike
3x Counterflux
Creature Removal
2x Dreadbore
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Far // Away
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Steam Augury
3x Izzet Charm
3x Thoughtseize
2x Breaking // Entering
2x Crypt Incursion
Lands
4x Steam Vents
4x Blood Crypt
2x Watery Grave
3x Temple of Deceit
4x Mountain
4x Island
4x Swamp
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Counterflux
2x Negate
1x Dispel
1x Duress
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Notion Thief
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Magma Jet
1x Turn // Burn
3x Slaughter Games
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Looks awesome! I'm still on the fence about splashing either red or white. Regardless, I have about 3 Jace's in my 75.
Guess this also answers my question on Mirko vs Consuming as well. I like Mirko because he's pretty much a Mind Funeral with a body but you have to hit. So that's my main issue with him. I'll try Consuming out next chance I get.
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Fail Gaming
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Skype: Kibbelznbitz69
If you do splash white/go to esper, the list I am making on the side has Rest in Peace in the sideboard. This helps for Reanimator decks and BG dredge.
I ran into a ton of trouble trying to run this deck against the super high-damage devotion decks in the format, so I shelved it for a bit. We have problems with decks that play low creature counts but still deal a lot of damage with those creatures, because they render Incursion a lot less effective. But the recent UW Control resurgence at last weekend's SCG Open makes this deck a lot more attractive. So maybe I'll try it out again this Friday and see how things go.
Co-Owner / Systems Administrator
Fail Gaming
www.FailGaming.com
Skype: Kibbelznbitz69
4 Desecration Demon
1 Phenax, God of Deception
4 Psychic Strike
4 Pilfered Plans
2 Mind Grind
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Far // Away
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
7 Swamp
7 Island
3 Pithing Needle
3 Crypt Incursion
1 Drown in Sorrow
3 Negate
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Gainsay
1 AEtherling
My current list. Returned Phalanx and Desecration Demon are great walls that can win the game through damage if need be. Plus, Ashiok's -X can get more beaters if I have to go the beatdown route.
4 Omenspeaker
3 Mnemonic Wall
4 Swan Song
3 Psychic Strike
3 Negate
3 Whelming Wave
3 Rapid Hybridization
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Watery Grave
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Godless Shrine
2 Temple of Silence
10 Island
4 Swamp
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Pithing Needle
4 Detention Sphere
2 Blind Obedience
1 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
4 Breaking // Entering