Before Khans came out I said I thought that the set would be down powered from prior ones. Somebody on another thread stated that all of us who thought Khans would be underpowered should express regrets. Personally, I still think I was right. Khans has some powerful card draw spells that are exploding eternal formats. The rest of the set is good in relation to the current meta, but probably are objectively less powerful than some of sets prior to Theros block (poor Theros block is just hopeless outside of a couple of cards). With FRF it feel like the power level is going up. So that people can point out just how wrong I was in a couple of months here are my predictions for FRF.
Bad card, likely to remain expensive
Eight mana is just too much. On the other hand, I know a lot of people who want a copy for their collection. Without some better ramp, Ugin might not be the best card but I expect collectors demand to keep it out of the bargain bin.
Hosed and don't know it yet
Consider the implications for the Dragons version of Monastery Siege on any deck that is running removal or burn. Lightning strikes at 4cmc, downfalls at 5 cmc. I suspect all the Jeskai decks are going to spend the first couple weeks of the season killing each other off. This probably isn't the end of Jeskai, there are just too many potential builds in those colors. I'd expect to see some radical changes. Soulfire Grand Master really feels like it wants to be in Naya with some ramp. . .
Likely Sleepers
It's a 4/5 that gives card advantage and likely costs around 4 or less to cast with Delve. Compares well with Polukranos, World Eater and blocks Siege Rhino. For that matter you could slot this thing into an Abzan deck.
The biggest objection I hear is that this card has the same toughness as Rabblemaster. Is Rabblemaster a good card?
Likely to see more play than expected
It's a cost X bear with potential upside. Not sexy, but if you need a creature on curve for 2+ mana you could do worse than this thing. Expect to see this replacing Polis Crusher in some R/G builds.
Likely headed for the bargain bin
It's a five mana 4/4 that drops the equivalent of a Xenagos token, with potential upside, each round. I'm torn. I can see a Monsters deck that runs Courser with few or no non-creature spells getting value out of it. I just think the cmc is probably one too high.
I'm sorry to say I pre-ordered a playset of these for a little under a buck each. There's a fair amount of buzz around this card. I figured I might be able to brew something using it. It's pay three mana to remove a chump blocker. Doesn't play well with Shaman of the Great Hunt. A Sultai build might find some use for this, but I can't really think of what it might be. Needs a persistent sack engine to be good.
Hell May Have Frozen Over
Put this in a Rakdos Minotaur deck and use it to whip back a Kragma Warcaller, Rageblood Shaman or any of the other 2/3 Minotaurs. I don't think it's going to work, but if Minotaurs actually becomes a thing in competitive play, I'd have to say that hell has frozen over. (Decklist)
The Monastery Siege is a great card for UB control. From testing one of it's weakest Matchups is WRx Burn and It forces that deck to either slow down to our pace or focus on creatures which can be swept away by Drown and Crux. It's an absolute boss of a card.
Though I do agree that Mentor and Soulfire are pretty overrated cards (Could easily be wrong about that) The speed of the format and amount of grindy match ups where it comes down to top-decking means cards like Monastery Mentor might be too big an investment.
Agree with your assessments generally. But, Ugin Is clealry a card with a predetermined home (U tron in Modern and UB control in standard). It's worse in standard than Eslpeth, Sun's Champion, as I feel the sum of its first two abilities have less impact than elspeth, and Elspeth hits the board two turns earlier. But I think that its use across multiple formats, will keep its price point in the 20-30 dollar range. Definitely Not another garruk, apex predator.
Agree with your assessments generally. But, Ugin Is clealry a card with a predetermined home (U tron in Modern and UB control in standard). It's worse in standard than Eslpeth, Sun's Champion, as I feel the sum of its first two abilities have less impact than elspeth, and Elspeth hits the board two turns earlier. But I think that its use across multiple formats, will keep its price point in the 20-30 dollar range. Definitely Not another garruk, apex predator.
It certainly could go in modern tron, but keep in mind that Tron already has Karn, is Ugin a significant improvement? I can see the benefit of the sweep ability, but I'm not sure that it is overall better (I don't play Tron, so maybe I am wrong). I do agree that it should be usable in UB standard control
we all saw how "bad" ugin is on the first scg tournament this weekend...
seems like you were wrong.@te
ah and with khans you are totaly wrong too.
there are not only dig and treasure cruise. siege rhino, jeskai ascendancy have much impact on eternal formats too.
dont mention all those really really strong standard cards like sarkhan, sorin and wingmate.... and im sure i forget a lot of them now... ah, and there are fetchlands...
we all saw how "bad" ugin is on the first scg tournament this weekend...
seems like you were wrong.@te
ah and with khans you are totaly wrong too.
there are not only dig and treasure cruise. siege rhino, jeskai ascendancy have much impact on eternal formats too.
dont mention all those really really strong standard cards like sarkhan, sorin and wingmate.... and im sure i forget a lot of them now... ah, and there are fetchlands...
I think his assement of Ugin is spot on. We saw many times in the SCG tournament where people 'ramp' into UGIN, but the ramp is creature ramp not land ramp. So if you have to wipe the board, you lose a bunch too. We really need some solid land ramp (or artifact ramp) to make Ugin really awesome.
I think his assement of Ugin is spot on. We saw many times in the SCG tournament where people 'ramp' into UGIN, but the ramp is creature ramp not land ramp. So if you have to wipe the board, you lose a bunch too. We really need some solid land ramp (or artifact ramp) to make Ugin really awesome.
Did it occur to you that they probably intentionally left out artifact/sorcery ramp in standard so this does not happen? People already successfully play Ugin without such ramp spells. Imagine what it would be like if it was made any easier.
Artifact ramp is there, it's just inefficient against the creature ramp.
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Bad card, likely to remain expensive
Eight mana is just too much. On the other hand, I know a lot of people who want a copy for their collection. Without some better ramp, Ugin might not be the best card but I expect collectors demand to keep it out of the bargain bin.
Hosed and don't know it yet
Consider the implications for the Dragons version of Monastery Siege on any deck that is running removal or burn. Lightning strikes at 4cmc, downfalls at 5 cmc. I suspect all the Jeskai decks are going to spend the first couple weeks of the season killing each other off. This probably isn't the end of Jeskai, there are just too many potential builds in those colors. I'd expect to see some radical changes. Soulfire Grand Master really feels like it wants to be in Naya with some ramp. . .
Likely Sleepers
It's a 4/5 that gives card advantage and likely costs around 4 or less to cast with Delve. Compares well with Polukranos, World Eater and blocks Siege Rhino. For that matter you could slot this thing into an Abzan deck.
The biggest objection I hear is that this card has the same toughness as Rabblemaster. Is Rabblemaster a good card?
Likely to see more play than expected
It's a cost X bear with potential upside. Not sexy, but if you need a creature on curve for 2+ mana you could do worse than this thing. Expect to see this replacing Polis Crusher in some R/G builds.
Likely headed for the bargain bin
It's a five mana 4/4 that drops the equivalent of a Xenagos token, with potential upside, each round. I'm torn. I can see a Monsters deck that runs Courser with few or no non-creature spells getting value out of it. I just think the cmc is probably one too high.
I'm sorry to say I pre-ordered a playset of these for a little under a buck each. There's a fair amount of buzz around this card. I figured I might be able to brew something using it. It's pay three mana to remove a chump blocker. Doesn't play well with Shaman of the Great Hunt. A Sultai build might find some use for this, but I can't really think of what it might be. Needs a persistent sack engine to be good.
Hell May Have Frozen Over
Put this in a Rakdos Minotaur deck and use it to whip back a Kragma Warcaller, Rageblood Shaman or any of the other 2/3 Minotaurs. I don't think it's going to work, but if Minotaurs actually becomes a thing in competitive play, I'd have to say that hell has frozen over. (Decklist)
We will rebuild.
Though I do agree that Mentor and Soulfire are pretty overrated cards (Could easily be wrong about that) The speed of the format and amount of grindy match ups where it comes down to top-decking means cards like Monastery Mentor might be too big an investment.
It certainly could go in modern tron, but keep in mind that Tron already has Karn, is Ugin a significant improvement? I can see the benefit of the sweep ability, but I'm not sure that it is overall better (I don't play Tron, so maybe I am wrong). I do agree that it should be usable in UB standard control
seems like you were wrong.@te
ah and with khans you are totaly wrong too.
there are not only dig and treasure cruise. siege rhino, jeskai ascendancy have much impact on eternal formats too.
dont mention all those really really strong standard cards like sarkhan, sorin and wingmate.... and im sure i forget a lot of them now... ah, and there are fetchlands...
I think his assement of Ugin is spot on. We saw many times in the SCG tournament where people 'ramp' into UGIN, but the ramp is creature ramp not land ramp. So if you have to wipe the board, you lose a bunch too. We really need some solid land ramp (or artifact ramp) to make Ugin really awesome.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Artifact ramp is there, it's just inefficient against the creature ramp.