So trying to decide what the single best card there is for a finisher right now in standard? Ideally something that has very few weaknesses, so preferably not planeswalkers... between Utter End, Hero's Downfall, Banishing Light and plenty of burn I just feel like they're too weak to be a single finisher in multiple instances.
I want this to be color independent... and it would be for a control deck for those curious.
Pearl Lake Ancient is my favorite for sure, reminds me of Aetherling from last standard.
Also Empty the Pits is really vulnerable right now. The tokens get swept by Aetherspouts, Bile Blight, Fated Retribution, Doomwake Giant triggers, etc.
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Standard: UB Control
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
to start thanks for the response... but I want to delve a little deeper into the thoughts :
Hornet Queen : This card seems super easy to deal with, and the clock is incredibly slow. I would think Prognostic Sphinx would be a better finisher than this. Though I could be wrong, care to elaborate eldub?
Stormbreath Dragon : I do like how this card dodges a LOT of things, but there are still plenty of Elspeth, some mass removal and still always the possibility of non-white spot removal. As a single finisher is seems too fragile (I say that not as in theres 1 in the deck but as its the sole win-con) to really consider that great.
Pearl Lake Ancient : This does seem like a great card to finish off a well-controlled game... My only pull on this card is that I feel I would need lots of Thoughtseize or Negate(other cheap counters to kill spells work here) to back it up instead of just scooping up lands.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion : Clearly an amazing card, and proves it can win games... Its somewhere between Pearl Lake and Stormbreath in that it requires specific removal but once its gone its gone (opposed to Pearl Lake which is MUCH harder to remove).
Any other weigh-ins on this? Thanks for input so far
Why are they so good? They kill things that try to kill them, and they kill players fast. It's one thing for a planeswalker to be able to 'protect itself'. But these guys are straight up killing opposing threats. Problem solved. The once the board is under control, they just shank the opponent.
Elspeth is better in the abstract though, because her ultimate is better and she can kill siege rhinos, and kill multiple things at once, and block monstroused fleecemane lions and other such resilient threats indefinitely.
Sphinx? Really? Every time I have played with or against that card being the only one in play, it has taken AGONIZINGLY LONG to close the game out. 3 damage = 7 turn clock. Removal fogs it. You might be scrying for a while.
Elspeth, stormbreath, butcher (recently whooped my ass thoroughly), I am a fan of pearl lake to some extent
I've never had issues with hornet (though I can deal with it better than most decks), I used empty the pits briefly (casted it for 4-6 of them EOT on empty board, ended in 2 turns)
there is no more creature you can sit on til the time comes and just play it and be guaranteed a win like we used to with Aetherling, but how often does the format allow that really anyways?
Savage knuckleblade can do an aetherling impression.
Elspeth is very good, even if she only survives a turn or two, she can remove dangerous threats and put several tokens on the field
Can both finish games that are locked up or can help stabilize
Hornet Queen - similar to Elspeth in that it can both stabilize and put pressure on an opponent to find a limited number of answers
Pearl Lake - resilient finisher in a deck that controls the board, but does little to help stabilize
Sagu mauler- hard to deal with and a solid clock. Doesn't stabilize except by blocking, but can come out fast and win quickly in a more aggressive deck
I'd say PLA is just insane in UB Vault Control, nearly impossible to remove unless you get forced to discard it, but if it's in your hand that early you're not doing something right. Never keep a starting hand with PLA. Late game it's possible to do a 2-3 turn kill if you get prowess set up right. Overall I'd say it's not the best finisher on the surface but when you take the entire deck into context it's definitely top 3 if not the best outright.
Keranos is the hardest kill condition to interact with. Elspeth is the fastest, and Hornet Queen is the best of them when you are behind. Garruk, Apex Predator is the biggest trump kill condition (it pretty much kills any other kill condition then starts winning the game for you) but is slooooow.
I do not like Pearl Lake Ancient in this metagame. Enough decks play Hornet Queen and PLA is beyond dead against anything with deathtouch. It's also bad against Elspeth and incredibly slow if your opponent has chump blockers.
Knuckleblade also suffers from the deathtouch issue, although it matters a lot less when you invest 3-4 mana into it than it does to lose a PLA.
I do not like Pearl Lake Ancient in this metagame. Enough decks play Hornet Queen and PLA is beyond dead against anything with deathtouch. It's also bad against Elspeth and incredibly slow if your opponent has chump blockers.
Ok I'll agree with you on a bit of this but you forget that you have to take the rest of the deck that a specific card is in into account when debating its merits. PLA is god awful outside of control. But in control all those drawbacks you listed shouldn't have happened, if you let them resolve an Elspeth or Hornet Queen you majorly screwed up and probably are already about to lose. The decks running PLA are particularly good against decks that would be running either of those cards so in actuality PLA is very very good against those cards.
Pearl Lake Ancient is my favorite for sure, reminds me of Aetherling from last standard.
Also Empty the Pits is really vulnerable right now. The tokens get swept by Aetherspouts, Bile Blight, Fated Retribution, Doomwake Giant triggers, etc.
Empty the pits is an instant, so only retribution and blight can actually deal with the tokens before they attack.
Wingmate Roc gets my vote. Even if they kill both halves, you still just 2-for-1d them, and they had to spend their entire turn doing it.
Pearl Lake Ancient is my favorite for sure, reminds me of Aetherling from last standard.
Also Empty the Pits is really vulnerable right now. The tokens get swept by Aetherspouts, Bile Blight, Fated Retribution, Doomwake Giant triggers, etc.
Empty the pits is an instant, so only retribution and blight can actually deal with the tokens before they attack.
Wingmate Roc gets my vote. Even if they kill both halves, you still just 2-for-1d them, and they had to spend their entire turn doing it.
The only way Wingmate Roc would be a finisher is if you steal it from your opponent with Ashiok and they fail to deal with it. (Or if you don't let them with counterspells)
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Standard: UB Control
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
Well, for a control shell I'm a fan of Sagu Mauler. Both sphinx and ancient have the problem that they can't block if you want to save them from removal. I've won several games because my opponent's sphinx couldn't block and survive a Hero's Downfall on a key turn.
I think powerful finishers like elspeth and hornet queen are good right now because their threats are extremely distributed. Thank god lingering souls isn't in standard still, but I think one or two more good token oriented cards in the next set could be the catalyst for a new t1 deck.
All of those are weak compared to Villainous Wealth. A fair sized VW is game over with almost zero chance of recovery. Plus you get information/instant scoopages.
Well, for a control shell I'm a fan of Sagu Mauler. Both sphinx and ancient have the problem that they can't block if you want to save them from removal. I've won several games because my opponent's sphinx couldn't block and survive a Hero's Downfall on a key turn.
What do you do when they play a Hornet Queen? that's the problem
I want this to be color independent... and it would be for a control deck for those curious.
Right now these are the ones off the top of my head that rank the highest : (in no particular order)
Villainous Wealth
Savage Knuckleblade
Pearl Lake Ancient
Stormtide Leviathan (mostly as a sideboard alternate finisher for decks that can't handle it)
Prognostic Sphinx (still susceptible to board wipes, so not hugely favored here)
Empty the Pits (instant speed, and no instant speed board wipes (baring Ætherspouts)
Most of those are just first-roll thoughts, curious what everyone thinks. Which card is the best control finisher in standard?!?!?
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Also Empty the Pits is really vulnerable right now. The tokens get swept by Aetherspouts, Bile Blight, Fated Retribution, Doomwake Giant triggers, etc.
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
RIP Jimmy foREVer
Standard: UB control.
Hornet Queen : This card seems super easy to deal with, and the clock is incredibly slow. I would think Prognostic Sphinx would be a better finisher than this. Though I could be wrong, care to elaborate eldub?
Stormbreath Dragon : I do like how this card dodges a LOT of things, but there are still plenty of Elspeth, some mass removal and still always the possibility of non-white spot removal. As a single finisher is seems too fragile (I say that not as in theres 1 in the deck but as its the sole win-con) to really consider that great.
Pearl Lake Ancient : This does seem like a great card to finish off a well-controlled game... My only pull on this card is that I feel I would need lots of Thoughtseize or Negate(other cheap counters to kill spells work here) to back it up instead of just scooping up lands.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion : Clearly an amazing card, and proves it can win games... Its somewhere between Pearl Lake and Stormbreath in that it requires specific removal but once its gone its gone (opposed to Pearl Lake which is MUCH harder to remove).
Any other weigh-ins on this? Thanks for input so far
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2x 3 power flyers late in the game after the attrition has hit is just a killer.
What's going to happen? Windstorm? Yeah right. Always a 2 for 1.
Then it gains life swinging the game even more.
BG/x BG
In a control shell you will really only trigger raid with ANOTHER wingmate roc, so the return there really isnt that great.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Hands down, best big bomb in standard. Honourable mention to Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker.
Why are they so good? They kill things that try to kill them, and they kill players fast. It's one thing for a planeswalker to be able to 'protect itself'. But these guys are straight up killing opposing threats. Problem solved. The once the board is under control, they just shank the opponent.
Elspeth is better in the abstract though, because her ultimate is better and she can kill siege rhinos, and kill multiple things at once, and block monstroused fleecemane lions and other such resilient threats indefinitely.
Elspeth, stormbreath, butcher (recently whooped my ass thoroughly), I am a fan of pearl lake to some extent
I've never had issues with hornet (though I can deal with it better than most decks), I used empty the pits briefly (casted it for 4-6 of them EOT on empty board, ended in 2 turns)
Sagu Mauler - Hard to remove baring crackling doom and board wipe
Riddle of Lightning - hear me out on this one... a deck with both dig through time and treasure cruise...
Keranos, God of Storms - hard to remove (only perilous vault, erase,diecide, banishing light, and utter end), card advantage or slowly killing your opponent/creatures/planeswalkers
Crater's Claws - more burn for game?
Colossus of Akros - block til 10 mana, then 2 turn clock?
there is no more creature you can sit on til the time comes and just play it and be guaranteed a win like we used to with Aetherling, but how often does the format allow that really anyways?
BW Haakon, Stromgald Scourge: Tribal Knights BW
UWG Roon Astral Slide: Cycling and Sliding Based Deck UWG
Elspeth is very good, even if she only survives a turn or two, she can remove dangerous threats and put several tokens on the field
Can both finish games that are locked up or can help stabilize
Hornet Queen - similar to Elspeth in that it can both stabilize and put pressure on an opponent to find a limited number of answers
Pearl Lake - resilient finisher in a deck that controls the board, but does little to help stabilize
Sagu mauler- hard to deal with and a solid clock. Doesn't stabilize except by blocking, but can come out fast and win quickly in a more aggressive deck
I do not like Pearl Lake Ancient in this metagame. Enough decks play Hornet Queen and PLA is beyond dead against anything with deathtouch. It's also bad against Elspeth and incredibly slow if your opponent has chump blockers.
Knuckleblade also suffers from the deathtouch issue, although it matters a lot less when you invest 3-4 mana into it than it does to lose a PLA.
Ok I'll agree with you on a bit of this but you forget that you have to take the rest of the deck that a specific card is in into account when debating its merits. PLA is god awful outside of control. But in control all those drawbacks you listed shouldn't have happened, if you let them resolve an Elspeth or Hornet Queen you majorly screwed up and probably are already about to lose. The decks running PLA are particularly good against decks that would be running either of those cards so in actuality PLA is very very good against those cards.
Empty the pits is an instant, so only retribution and blight can actually deal with the tokens before they attack.
Wingmate Roc gets my vote. Even if they kill both halves, you still just 2-for-1d them, and they had to spend their entire turn doing it.
Wingmate Roc is horrible in a control shell... I should have been more specific in the title but thats what I was aiming for : a control finisher.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
The only way Wingmate Roc would be a finisher is if you steal it from your opponent with Ashiok and they fail to deal with it. (Or if you don't let them with counterspells)
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
RIP Jimmy foREVer
What do you do when they play a Hornet Queen? that's the problem
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