Sultai Whip and Sultai control should also be separated.
Yep--one of those decks runs like 4 creatures, the other like 24 creatures. Also, it might help to change the name of the "Sultai Delve" thread to "Sidisi Whip", since "Sultai Delve" actually describes the control deck a little better than the Whip deck now. There would be less confusion if that change were made.
Sultai Whip and Sultai control should also be separated.
Both threads have been separated since roughly October(?) Control is in established and mid-range/whip is in proven (although it is unclear whether those are the correct places for each respectively). Or perhaps I am misunderstanding the request?
I'm hesitant to change the name of Sultai Delve to Sultai Whip since not all Sultai mid-range lists utilize Whip of Erebos.
@riliss: No one has actually sat down and produced a good Naya Tokens primer. I would not be against it but, much like the existence of an Abzan control thread, the content has to exist and have interest from the community.
Proven and Established will be updated after Pro Tour DTK results.
That seems odd when you consider how much and how often Standard's meta shifts. It basically means that the proven and established archetypes will only be correct immediately after the Pro Tour.
Proven and Established will be updated after Pro Tour DTK results.
That seems odd when you consider how much and how often Standard's meta shifts. It basically means that the proven and established archetypes will only be correct immediately after the Pro Tour.
We've been trying to update the list about once a month or every two months.
Updating week-in and week-out subjects us to some real hair-pulling.
As of right now, the next update will be after DTK. The next one will be sometime in May.
Proven and Established will be updated after Pro Tour DTK results.
That seems odd when you consider how much and how often Standard's meta shifts. It basically means that the proven and established archetypes will only be correct immediately after the Pro Tour.
We've been trying to update the list about once a month or every two months.
Updating week-in and week-out subjects us to some real hair-pulling.
As of right now, the next update will be after DTK. The next one will be sometime in May.
Sultai Whip hasn't been tier 1 since Fate Reforged came out and UB Control has been tier 1 since then. How did these things not get changed before?
Proven and Established will be updated after Pro Tour DTK results.
That seems odd when you consider how much and how often Standard's meta shifts. It basically means that the proven and established archetypes will only be correct immediately after the Pro Tour.
We've been trying to update the list about once a month or every two months.
Updating week-in and week-out subjects us to some real hair-pulling.
As of right now, the next update will be after DTK. The next one will be sometime in May.
Sultai Whip hasn't been tier 1 since Fate Reforged came out and UB Control has been tier 1 since then. How did these things not get changed before?
Sultai Whip is still t1. Just not the version that you're used to seeing.
Proven and Established will be updated after Pro Tour DTK results.
That seems odd when you consider how much and how often Standard's meta shifts. It basically means that the proven and established archetypes will only be correct immediately after the Pro Tour.
We've been trying to update the list about once a month or every two months.
Updating week-in and week-out subjects us to some real hair-pulling.
As of right now, the next update will be after DTK. The next one will be sometime in May.
Sultai Whip hasn't been tier 1 since Fate Reforged came out and UB Control has been tier 1 since then. How did these things not get changed before?
Sultai Whip is still t1. Just not the version that you're used to seeing.
It is tier 1 now. It wasn't tier 1 when I wrote that post a month ago. Honestly, saying that a post I made about the meta a month ago isn't true now accomplishes nothing. Or are you honestly arguing that in early March Sidisi Whip was a tier 1 deck and was more tier 1 than Green Devotion and UB Control?
Question: Do y'all count the R/G dragon decks which have been running around under the same headline as GR Monsters, or do you consider it a different deck. I can see arguments running both ways. I'm personally inclined to count it as a different deck, since it seems to me to play off of different types of synergies with the "Dragons Matter" cards.
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Standard: Currently messing with U/R or Mono-Red Artifacts, following Origins.
Modern: Budget U/R Burn
Legacy: LOLnope
Vintage: See previous
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Tiny Commander: Shu Yun, the Silent Tempo
One minor gripe that has been irking me for some time now. Can we change the UBx thread tittle from UBx "Pure" Control to UBx Control. Maybe I'm in the minority but the addition of "Pure" just makes the entire thread seem condescending.
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Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
Has heroic not won enough open series to be considered proven? Has to win a PT?
The Open series is only one step up from FNM. Bant Heroic needs a much better series of results both online and in GPs before it can be considered Tier 1.
Only a step up from FNM? I would dispute that.
500 people. 15 rounds. Genuine pro tour players. Big cash prizes.
I'll just let Adrian Sullivan do the talking for me.
Whenever you're going to try to compare and contrast events, you're always going to be running into a number of complicating issues. Simply put, these days, the gap between the skill of players has shrunk over the years, and this is the case both geographically and when we compare pro players to players on the Open Series circuit. It is certainly the case, in my opinion, that the top players on the Pro Tour are better than the top players on the Open Seires circuit, and the worst players on the Pro Tour are better than the worst players in any Open Series event. That being said, the skill level of the players in these events has an incredible amount of overlap. The best players on the Open Series could easily compete at the Pro Tour, and the skill at these events goes very deep.
Has heroic not won enough open series to be considered proven? Has to win a PT?
Heroic enjoys a lack of respect from many. There was a premium article at SCG last Thursday or Friday previewing what might be successful at SCG Cleveland. Bant Heroic was one of the decks suggested. There were plenty of comments to the effect: "Please, play Bant Heroic, it's so bad."
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
I'm loving premium right now with the metagame being so volatile.
I think having a paywall makes these guys more willing to impart information as it comes in knowing that everybody can't just view it for free.
Todd's article about midrange being dead was right on the money and worth every cent. I got to see the decklist he and Tom Ross had been working on and I got to play it at my LGS without anybody being prepared for it and just playing Esper dragons because it was what was popular last week (as in last weeks deck) or Atarka Red (The Pro tour deck). Very few people are going to read articles about magic, they're just going to look at the decklists that did well at the big tournys, even fewer people are going to pay to read articles about magic. Of course it's not as simple as copying a decklist from SCG premium and you have to understand how to play it and why it is good against the expected metagame. Then you have to think about what decks you think people will be playing in your local metagame and adjust accordingly.
Perhaps CFB needs to transition into a paywall set up. Not because they want to make money but because the pro writers can't just give full public access to all their current thoughts and predictions on cards and the metagame. I feel like their free content just doesn't come anywhere near SCG premium and that's being kind to it.
I'm loving premium right now with the metagame being so volatile.
I think having a paywall makes these guys more willing to impart information as it comes in knowing that everybody can't just view it for free.
Todd's article about midrange being dead was right on the money and worth every cent. I got to see the decklist he and Tom Ross had been working on and I got to play it at my LGS without anybody being prepared for it and just playing Esper dragons because it was what was popular last week (as in last weeks deck) or Atarka Red (The Pro tour deck). Very few people are going to read articles about magic, they're just going to look at the decklists that did well at the big tournys, even fewer people are going to pay to read articles about magic. Of course it's not as simple as copying a decklist from SCG premium and you have to understand how to play it and why it is good against the expected metagame. Then you have to think about what decks you think people will be playing in your local metagame and adjust accordingly.
Perhaps CFB needs to transition into a paywall set up. Not because they want to make money but because the pro writers can't just give full public access to all their current thoughts and predictions on cards and the metagame. I feel like their free content just doesn't come anywhere near SCG premium and that's being kind to it.
Well, SCG has more daily content on both sides (free and premium) than some sites put out in a week.
Fabiano has twice recently published the deck he would be using the upcoming weekend, actually polled readers about what he should play and then went with their selections. And, this was on the free side.
There is a bit of duplication, however. Recently two nearly identical premium articles listing the popular decks along with weaknesses were published on the same day in premium.
Still, I agree with the SCG content being the best of what is available.
Sort of back on topic: if a deck is Tier 1 in the SCG Open meta, it ought to be Tier 1 for MTG Salvation purposes.
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
I'm loving premium right now with the metagame being so volatile.
I think having a paywall makes these guys more willing to impart information as it comes in knowing that everybody can't just view it for free.
Todd's article about midrange being dead was right on the money and worth every cent. I got to see the decklist he and Tom Ross had been working on and I got to play it at my LGS without anybody being prepared for it and just playing Esper dragons because it was what was popular last week (as in last weeks deck) or Atarka Red (The Pro tour deck). Very few people are going to read articles about magic, they're just going to look at the decklists that did well at the big tournys, even fewer people are going to pay to read articles about magic. Of course it's not as simple as copying a decklist from SCG premium and you have to understand how to play it and why it is good against the expected metagame. Then you have to think about what decks you think people will be playing in your local metagame and adjust accordingly.
Perhaps CFB needs to transition into a paywall set up. Not because they want to make money but because the pro writers can't just give full public access to all their current thoughts and predictions on cards and the metagame. I feel like their free content just doesn't come anywhere near SCG premium and that's being kind to it.
I hate the idea of people putting a price tag on their articles, if CFB set up a paywall it would be frustrating for a lot of people. It's bad enough that SCG tries to entice us with the idea that if we spend cash on a premium account we'll get better content about the game. I understand that Magic is pay-to-play but making it pay-to-learn is counter-intuitive and I doubt the premium articles becoming free to read would have any serious impact.
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This is definitely something that I agree with. Two very different decks, in my opinion.
I'd be interested in seeing the Naya tokens deck in Established, as well.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Yep--one of those decks runs like 4 creatures, the other like 24 creatures. Also, it might help to change the name of the "Sultai Delve" thread to "Sidisi Whip", since "Sultai Delve" actually describes the control deck a little better than the Whip deck now. There would be less confusion if that change were made.
Both threads have been separated since roughly October(?) Control is in established and mid-range/whip is in proven (although it is unclear whether those are the correct places for each respectively). Or perhaps I am misunderstanding the request?
I'm hesitant to change the name of Sultai Delve to Sultai Whip since not all Sultai mid-range lists utilize Whip of Erebos.
@riliss: No one has actually sat down and produced a good Naya Tokens primer. I would not be against it but, much like the existence of an Abzan control thread, the content has to exist and have interest from the community.
The Naya Tokens primer has finally been made. I'll keep an eye on it's results, but I'm inclined to not call it an established deck.
Edit: Also, I think Jeskai Tokens and Jeskai Tempo should have separate threads. They are completely different decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That seems odd when you consider how much and how often Standard's meta shifts. It basically means that the proven and established archetypes will only be correct immediately after the Pro Tour.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
We've been trying to update the list about once a month or every two months.
Updating week-in and week-out subjects us to some real hair-pulling.
As of right now, the next update will be after DTK. The next one will be sometime in May.
Sultai Whip hasn't been tier 1 since Fate Reforged came out and UB Control has been tier 1 since then. How did these things not get changed before?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Even if you were never willing to respond to my comment before in this thread, Proven and Established should get updated now.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
It is tier 1 now. It wasn't tier 1 when I wrote that post a month ago. Honestly, saying that a post I made about the meta a month ago isn't true now accomplishes nothing. Or are you honestly arguing that in early March Sidisi Whip was a tier 1 deck and was more tier 1 than Green Devotion and UB Control?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
It's fine, sorry for overreacting a bit.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
proven:
--abzan
--ubx control
--gr monsters
--gx devotion
--jeskai
--rdw
established:
--rw aggro
--sultai delve
--mardu
--temur
--heroic
--sultai control
moved to SDC:
--bgx rockstars
The title of UB Control will be changed to UBx control to account for small splashes such as the Dragons lists seen at the PT.
Proven/Est. will be next updated May 18th, after GP Shanghai (standard) and the MOCs.
Modern: Budget U/R Burn
Legacy: LOLnope
Vintage: See previous
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Tiny Commander: Shu Yun, the Silent Tempo
Only a step up from FNM? I would dispute that.
500 people. 15 rounds. Genuine pro tour players. Big cash prizes.
I'll just let Adrian Sullivan do the talking for me.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30706_Standard-Before-Toronto-And-The-RPTQs.html
I think having a paywall makes these guys more willing to impart information as it comes in knowing that everybody can't just view it for free.
Todd's article about midrange being dead was right on the money and worth every cent. I got to see the decklist he and Tom Ross had been working on and I got to play it at my LGS without anybody being prepared for it and just playing Esper dragons because it was what was popular last week (as in last weeks deck) or Atarka Red (The Pro tour deck). Very few people are going to read articles about magic, they're just going to look at the decklists that did well at the big tournys, even fewer people are going to pay to read articles about magic. Of course it's not as simple as copying a decklist from SCG premium and you have to understand how to play it and why it is good against the expected metagame. Then you have to think about what decks you think people will be playing in your local metagame and adjust accordingly.
Perhaps CFB needs to transition into a paywall set up. Not because they want to make money but because the pro writers can't just give full public access to all their current thoughts and predictions on cards and the metagame. I feel like their free content just doesn't come anywhere near SCG premium and that's being kind to it.
Fabiano has twice recently published the deck he would be using the upcoming weekend, actually polled readers about what he should play and then went with their selections. And, this was on the free side.
There is a bit of duplication, however. Recently two nearly identical premium articles listing the popular decks along with weaknesses were published on the same day in premium.
Still, I agree with the SCG content being the best of what is available.
Sort of back on topic: if a deck is Tier 1 in the SCG Open meta, it ought to be Tier 1 for MTG Salvation purposes.
Reading is tech.
Also, when determining proven/est we look at more data points than just one tournament.
Was UWx Heroic very successful this weekend? Yes.
Will it be successful every weekend up until the next Proven/Est. change? Unsure.
I hate the idea of people putting a price tag on their articles, if CFB set up a paywall it would be frustrating for a lot of people. It's bad enough that SCG tries to entice us with the idea that if we spend cash on a premium account we'll get better content about the game. I understand that Magic is pay-to-play but making it pay-to-learn is counter-intuitive and I doubt the premium articles becoming free to read would have any serious impact.