I currently have jund monsters built and as of now I'm probably going to take that to the open in Seattle next weekend. I noticed the straight Jund midrange build. It's obviously under the radar more (I kinda like that) but it looks good. What deck do you think is worth taking to the Open?
Off topic, I love how Montana loves their GRx decks...
More on topic, if you have access to Mono Black, I think that is the deck someone would probably want to take if they are just wanting the correct deck rather than a variant of their current or favorite deck. The reason I say this, is that from my experiences in Seattle, they are much like MT in the way they like to play big beefy midrange decks. It seems like it is always that or Control, and I think you should be able to manage the aggro decks floating around in various rounds pretty well.
If you are set on GRx, I would just pack the Jund iteration. I have not been to Seattle for any events for a while though so I could just be way off, but I doubt it.
Thanks for the advice. One half of my playtest group is suggesting the Jund build and the other suggesting B/W midrange. (Which took me to a SCG IQ top 8 finish) I feel uncomfortable with the mana in that build. Might do mono black. This FNM I'm going to playtest the jund midrange and see how it goes. If I don't like it, will test monsters and MBD. I feel like me deciding what deck I want to play is getting in the way of my focus, maybe esper control.
I'm fine with B/w for sure, MBD I like but I don't know about this 4 LifeBanes in the main. And now Nyx. Like I said I'm going to give Jund midrange a go first.
I am hesitant about BW to be honest. The deck seems too shaky for my taste.
Jund sets you up well against control a bit more than GR Monsters, which is going to really come down to the Esper match I believe and in that match I would take Jund over straight GR Monsters.
As much as I hate to say this, Mono Black can pretty much go into auto pilot mode in a lot of matches. Not only is it a reliable deck, but the fact that it can actually switch into auto pilot a decent amount of the time lets you play a strong deck and an open environment without having to invest an incredible amount of time figuring the match ups out. This is the opposite of any UWx Control deck right now and I say this because I have played pretty much every UWx under the sun right now and I can tell you that a lot of my matches can straight up just be hard. That is not to say the decks don't have favorable matches, but say something about a deck that is just so reactive in a format with plenty of high impact cards trying to bring you down. UWx not having an autopilot option for most of its matches, means you need to invest a lot of time into understanding far more board situations than you do with something like Mono Black. This has nothing to really do with what deck takes more skill to pilot, and everything to do with how stable common plays actually are from deck to deck.
So while the basic "Stick with what you know" applies, there are highs and lows to that suggestion.
I would go with Mono Black for a few reasons
You can switch into autopilot fairly easily
The deck is remarkably stable
The deck is flexible
The deck is well positioned
It is a quick grab with minimal requirements for understanding a specific meta
Good deck is just good
I would go with Jund if
I was familiar with GR Monsters and it's match ups
I was certain Control was my target
I clearly understand the need for B
I am better and more comfortable with turning dudes sideways
BW, Mono Blue, GR Monsters, Aggro, and UWx would probably not be on my list of decks I would consider for Seattle. BW is just too unstable compared to Mono Black and stability is important. Mono Blue... I am not sure I actually need to point out why I would not consider it. GR Monsters has issues of it's own and I would not like to waltz into a field of Mono Black and Esper Control with it or have to deal with the mirror that is actually running black. Aggro because it is outclassed in a lot of ways right now. UWx, because there is a clock and it is easy for GR Monsters, Mono Black, and UWx to consume a lot of time if you are drawing marginal with UWx. If you are one of the fast UW players that has been with it since the start of the format, it may not be a bad choice but I would not say it is a better choice than Mono Black or Jund.
Really it is all going to be up to you and you still should stick with what you are most comfortable with out of all the choices, but if you have pretty much played all the choices and are familiar with them enough then the above information is what I would look at over simply just knowing the deck well enough. I am not sure who all is in your group from MT (if it is just a GF group or if you have some people from Bozeman or Missoula), but if BGD is on the Jund bandwagon, I would trust his judgement there otherwise I am sure he would be in UWx in which case I would still probably be on the Jund bandwagon.
I can't thank you enough for the input. Its crazy you know BGD. Small world, I will have to ask him.
Hope it is helpful in deciding what deck you are going to take. I am sure others have their own ways of making that executive decision, and it would be nice to see what they are if that is the case.
I don't know BGD on a very personal level, just bumped into him a few times while playing in the NW area and he was the State Champion in 2010 if I recall and I believe he is still pretty active up there, at least for how active that area is as far as MTG goes.
After playtesting some tonight I have narrowed it down. MBD seems to be it, I wanna test BW still, I know its sketchy but it has more answers and one card in the deck will just stop MBD. But as of now MBD is my deck of choice. I have never been to a big event like this before so deciding on a deck has been a little difficult.
I quote the part that is relevant:
"Moreover, four copies of Lifebane Zombie replace Nightveil Specter altogether. Unlike the removal suite (which I anticipate fluctuating depending on metagame expectations or personal taste), I expect the switch to Lifebane Zombie to be a permanent thing. Nightveil Specter is pretty anemic outside of the mirror match, so as long as that's not a distorting presence, the higher-impact Lifebane Zombie should become the creature of choice.
Though Lifebane Zombie is purportedly for G/R Monsters (or at least green and white decks in general), there are other matchups that are dramatically impacted. B/W Midrange, which is essentially Mono-Black Devotion with Blood Baron of Vizkopa, was the "anti-Mono-Black Devotion" black deck prior to Born of the Gods. That may no longer be the case, as Bernardo tellingly beat two copies of the deck en route to his finals appearance. These matches weren't on camera, so I don't know the extent to which Lifebane Zombie played a role in those specific games, but this switch is a big deal for game 1.
This combined with the presence of Mizzium Mortars in a bunch of decks really calls into question how many hoops one should be willing to jump through to splash Blood Baron of Vizkopa. If you want other white cards, that's one thing, and Elspeth, Sun's Champion; Last Breath; and Revoke Existence are all worthy of some effort. But it always felt to me like the primary rationalization for splashing white in Mono-Black Devotion was Blood Baron, and I feel like the incentive has gone down substantially in the wake of Atlanta."
I am going to the same open and also having deck choice problems. I ran mono B in GP Vancouver and the probably 1/2 the field did too. I don't think Jund or GR monsters is where I want to be. I have the R/B devotion that matches up pretty good vs control and mono B but it's not great against burn and the mono U variants. U/W devotion is interesting though and that is also an option.
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Standard: Gave it up
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
If this is your first "big" event like this, I would honestly tell you that you should be less worried about the deck and more worried about the regimen. Seem like that kills more people than anything over the course of 9 rounds. On that front just make sure you
Get a full night's rest.
Do not oversleep
Go to bed early to account for tossing and turning (also gives you a proper amount of time to wake up before the event)
Drink water, skip the sugar drinks
Snack on high-energy foods like nuts and jerky, skip the sugar snacks
Get a motivating song to play through headphones before a match as you shuffle up. Stick to the song throughout the day.
I also try to avoid watching or thinking about magic too much between rounds so I like to step outside, when they host it at the Lynwood Convention Center, there is a sweet little Mexican Grill practically in the parking lot. Some place like that is a nice spot to take lunch as it is out an away from cards and can help you wind down and get back into gear, I am sure there is probably something close by the convention center in Tacoma.
If you end up getting their early on Friday or something, maybe try to take the night off and just relax. If you guys are staying with Estep (assuming), this might not be an option as he likes to play with cards, try to get out and go bowling or something and talk about the event. Grinding out board plans and test games the night before can really kill momentum sometimes, of course there are plenty of people that like spending the night before like that... Drew is one of them.
For me, getting a tournament regimen in place is something I have seen drastically impact event performance and not just for myself. I remember when I was just hitting up States and FNM's I never really had a game plan for something like an Open and would scrub out early on and just felt exhausted all day, from the moment I woke up.
This is not to say you don't already have one, just a friendly note in the event that you don't.
Loving the input. Never thought about some stuff like this, when I went to last year's ptq my mind and body was done after the day was over. Thanks once again and I might run the Bant control in an FNM one time for fun.
@Galerion
I have ruled out BW and still sticking with MBD but the Esper builds look intriguing. My playtest that today.
Loving the input. Never thought about some stuff like this, when I went to last year's ptq my mind and body was done after the day was over. Thanks once again and I might run the Bant control in an FNM one time for fun.
@Galerion
I have ruled out BW and still sticking with MBD but the Esper builds look intriguing. My playtest that today.
Of course with the rise of GR Monsters Esper Control got revived and looks good again. But there is a big difference between UW playing a few of the black temples for the Doom Blades in the sideboard and actual Esper builds which are heavy on Shocklands/Temples and play stuff like Thoughtseize and Hero's Downfall in the main.
The aggro matchups get a lot worse the farther you go down that road. Be warned even though Aggro is not that good right now there will always be people rocking it.
I mean a Mono-Red aggro deck played by David Jones who has never played in an Open before and with only 12 cards in the sideboard made top 8 in the last SCG Open because people get a bit too greedy with their mana.
Im assuming you are talking about Esper Control when you said Esper builds and not those Esper Midrange decks which I dont think are that good and I have no experience playing with.
I don't see how this is quite the case if you are not familiar and comfortable with MBD. It may or may not be that decisions are easier with MBD, but if you are new to the deck and aren't exactly comfortable making those decisions, it won't matter too much that they are easier.
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
What deck do you think is worth taking to the Open?
Kneejerk reaction is to play what you like and have fun.
If you're more interested in winning, go U/W/x or MBD as they're both pretty dominant. Both of which I'm so sick to death of seeing at my LCS's week after week. Last week was a turn out of 17 decks. 15 were either MBD or U/W/x. EXCITING!
Then there's your R/G, and your MUD still hanging on to round out the big 4.
My opinion is you should run as hard with your Jund as you can, as it's the underdog. I dig the underdog decks and decks no one is playing.
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Vintage. That's about it. Maybe Standard, if it could get it together into something interesting enough to play.
tested more MBD today and had a decent day with it. Then I went on to proxy up the RW devotion deck that got 8th in Atalanta. What a deck! I'm going to play it at FNM tomorrow night and see how it goes.
tested more MBD today and had a decent day with it. Then I went on to proxy up the RW devotion deck that got 8th in Atalanta. What a deck! I'm going to play it at FNM tomorrow night and see how it goes.
Those red devotion decks are explosive but horribly inconsistent. I want to play my version but it's destined for X-4 I think.
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Standard: Gave it up
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
I was on RW Devotion up until a few weeks ago... I agree about there consistency. As for Bant Control, I think the deck has potential, but even I would not consider playing it at an Open. I was thinking about taking it to the PTQ this Satruday, but unfortunately, I do not think my Brimaz or Archangels will be here in time so I am probably going to shift myself to Jund Monsters or probably just pass on the event and work instead. :/
As much as I don't really want to I will probably end up running MBD. It's the best deck and I have a lot of experience playing it. I am working on a new RB dev build that I want to test a lot first though hoping it will work.
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Standard: Gave it up
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
I think there might be a way to splash some red too. Get some Mogis, God of Slaughter action happening. It's not like you're not gonna have removal for Tidebinder Mage. Dreadbore is a great card right now with so many planeswalker threats about. Good backup for the instant speed spells.
Just a few thoughts on how things are going. I think some sort of black is the best deck to play right now.
Decks to test this week: MBD, UWR control, Jund monsters
Took the RW devotion to FNM and went 4-1, should have lost more but people made play mistakes that cost them the game. Can't bank on that so that deck is out of the question.
Friend of mine keeps telling me JM is the deck to take, my heart tells me MBD (I play well with it) and I want to just try out UWR. I haven't seen UWR deck top lately (well at least if it has I haven't seen it.) so it could be unexpected.
How well do you think UWR sits in the meta right now?
UWR is only worth playing if you are willing to play a lot of bad cards people won't play around. Fated Conflagration, steam augury, chained to the rocks, ral zareks warleader's helix just to name a few not very good cards for control shells can pop up and be blowouts and attack a lot of the meta. I remember suiting up a homebrewish version of UWR at a 20+ player tcg player appreciation like 2 weeks ago and I got second losing to B/W Midrange in finals. Mainboard counterfluxs, mass assemble the legions, steam augury and fated conflagrations all provided nice blow outs and ez wins. No one is playing around their obzedat or elspeth or polukranos being fated for 5 damage or expecting 4 stormbreath dragons out of the side board etc.
I mean you still play your 4 jaces,2 elspeth, 4 sphinx , 4 supreme 4dsphere etc but Izzet charms, steam augury, fated conflag, assemble mainboard with more in the side as well as dragons, ral zarek for b/w midrange post board and the lot all provide ez instant speed answers to a lot of problematic cards. Most control decks are put on being tap out control decks and 95% of the decksare so throwing in those 8 or so fringe cards mainboard can give you answers for the weekend.
That'd be my advice as far as UWR. Steam augury,fated and izzet are also never dead cards and filter the dead cards in game 1s which is very nice.
More on topic, if you have access to Mono Black, I think that is the deck someone would probably want to take if they are just wanting the correct deck rather than a variant of their current or favorite deck. The reason I say this, is that from my experiences in Seattle, they are much like MT in the way they like to play big beefy midrange decks. It seems like it is always that or Control, and I think you should be able to manage the aggro decks floating around in various rounds pretty well.
If you are set on GRx, I would just pack the Jund iteration. I have not been to Seattle for any events for a while though so I could just be way off, but I doubt it.
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
Jund sets you up well against control a bit more than GR Monsters, which is going to really come down to the Esper match I believe and in that match I would take Jund over straight GR Monsters.
As much as I hate to say this, Mono Black can pretty much go into auto pilot mode in a lot of matches. Not only is it a reliable deck, but the fact that it can actually switch into auto pilot a decent amount of the time lets you play a strong deck and an open environment without having to invest an incredible amount of time figuring the match ups out. This is the opposite of any UWx Control deck right now and I say this because I have played pretty much every UWx under the sun right now and I can tell you that a lot of my matches can straight up just be hard. That is not to say the decks don't have favorable matches, but say something about a deck that is just so reactive in a format with plenty of high impact cards trying to bring you down. UWx not having an autopilot option for most of its matches, means you need to invest a lot of time into understanding far more board situations than you do with something like Mono Black. This has nothing to really do with what deck takes more skill to pilot, and everything to do with how stable common plays actually are from deck to deck.
So while the basic "Stick with what you know" applies, there are highs and lows to that suggestion.
I would go with Mono Black for a few reasons
I would go with Jund if
BW, Mono Blue, GR Monsters, Aggro, and UWx would probably not be on my list of decks I would consider for Seattle. BW is just too unstable compared to Mono Black and stability is important. Mono Blue... I am not sure I actually need to point out why I would not consider it. GR Monsters has issues of it's own and I would not like to waltz into a field of Mono Black and Esper Control with it or have to deal with the mirror that is actually running black. Aggro because it is outclassed in a lot of ways right now. UWx, because there is a clock and it is easy for GR Monsters, Mono Black, and UWx to consume a lot of time if you are drawing marginal with UWx. If you are one of the fast UW players that has been with it since the start of the format, it may not be a bad choice but I would not say it is a better choice than Mono Black or Jund.
Really it is all going to be up to you and you still should stick with what you are most comfortable with out of all the choices, but if you have pretty much played all the choices and are familiar with them enough then the above information is what I would look at over simply just knowing the deck well enough. I am not sure who all is in your group from MT (if it is just a GF group or if you have some people from Bozeman or Missoula), but if BGD is on the Jund bandwagon, I would trust his judgement there otherwise I am sure he would be in UWx in which case I would still probably be on the Jund bandwagon.
Hope it is helpful in deciding what deck you are going to take. I am sure others have their own ways of making that executive decision, and it would be nice to see what they are if that is the case.
I don't know BGD on a very personal level, just bumped into him a few times while playing in the NW area and he was the State Champion in 2010 if I recall and I believe he is still pretty active up there, at least for how active that area is as far as MTG goes.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28041_Dissecting-The-Dirty-South.html
I quote the part that is relevant:
"Moreover, four copies of Lifebane Zombie replace Nightveil Specter altogether. Unlike the removal suite (which I anticipate fluctuating depending on metagame expectations or personal taste), I expect the switch to Lifebane Zombie to be a permanent thing. Nightveil Specter is pretty anemic outside of the mirror match, so as long as that's not a distorting presence, the higher-impact Lifebane Zombie should become the creature of choice.
Though Lifebane Zombie is purportedly for G/R Monsters (or at least green and white decks in general), there are other matchups that are dramatically impacted. B/W Midrange, which is essentially Mono-Black Devotion with Blood Baron of Vizkopa, was the "anti-Mono-Black Devotion" black deck prior to Born of the Gods. That may no longer be the case, as Bernardo tellingly beat two copies of the deck en route to his finals appearance. These matches weren't on camera, so I don't know the extent to which Lifebane Zombie played a role in those specific games, but this switch is a big deal for game 1.
This combined with the presence of Mizzium Mortars in a bunch of decks really calls into question how many hoops one should be willing to jump through to splash Blood Baron of Vizkopa. If you want other white cards, that's one thing, and Elspeth, Sun's Champion; Last Breath; and Revoke Existence are all worthy of some effort. But it always felt to me like the primary rationalization for splashing white in Mono-Black Devotion was Blood Baron, and I feel like the incentive has gone down substantially in the wake of Atlanta."
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
I also try to avoid watching or thinking about magic too much between rounds so I like to step outside, when they host it at the Lynwood Convention Center, there is a sweet little Mexican Grill practically in the parking lot. Some place like that is a nice spot to take lunch as it is out an away from cards and can help you wind down and get back into gear, I am sure there is probably something close by the convention center in Tacoma.
If you end up getting their early on Friday or something, maybe try to take the night off and just relax. If you guys are staying with Estep (assuming), this might not be an option as he likes to play with cards, try to get out and go bowling or something and talk about the event. Grinding out board plans and test games the night before can really kill momentum sometimes, of course there are plenty of people that like spending the night before like that... Drew is one of them.
For me, getting a tournament regimen in place is something I have seen drastically impact event performance and not just for myself. I remember when I was just hitting up States and FNM's I never really had a game plan for something like an Open and would scrub out early on and just felt exhausted all day, from the moment I woke up.
This is not to say you don't already have one, just a friendly note in the event that you don't.
@Galerion
I have ruled out BW and still sticking with MBD but the Esper builds look intriguing. My playtest that today.
Of course with the rise of GR Monsters Esper Control got revived and looks good again. But there is a big difference between UW playing a few of the black temples for the Doom Blades in the sideboard and actual Esper builds which are heavy on Shocklands/Temples and play stuff like Thoughtseize and Hero's Downfall in the main.
The aggro matchups get a lot worse the farther you go down that road. Be warned even though Aggro is not that good right now there will always be people rocking it.
I mean a Mono-Red aggro deck played by David Jones who has never played in an Open before and with only 12 cards in the sideboard made top 8 in the last SCG Open because people get a bit too greedy with their mana.
Im assuming you are talking about Esper Control when you said Esper builds and not those Esper Midrange decks which I dont think are that good and I have no experience playing with.
I don't see how this is quite the case if you are not familiar and comfortable with MBD. It may or may not be that decisions are easier with MBD, but if you are new to the deck and aren't exactly comfortable making those decisions, it won't matter too much that they are easier.
Kneejerk reaction is to play what you like and have fun.
If you're more interested in winning, go U/W/x or MBD as they're both pretty dominant. Both of which I'm so sick to death of seeing at my LCS's week after week. Last week was a turn out of 17 decks. 15 were either MBD or U/W/x. EXCITING!
Then there's your R/G, and your MUD still hanging on to round out the big 4.
My opinion is you should run as hard with your Jund as you can, as it's the underdog. I dig the underdog decks and decks no one is playing.
tested more MBD today and had a decent day with it. Then I went on to proxy up the RW devotion deck that got 8th in Atalanta. What a deck! I'm going to play it at FNM tomorrow night and see how it goes.
Those red devotion decks are explosive but horribly inconsistent. I want to play my version but it's destined for X-4 I think.
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
Having access to Elspeth, Sun's Champion is just a great trump card to have.
I think you can keep most of the white creatures in the sideboard.
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa might be enough.
I think there might be a way to splash some red too. Get some Mogis, God of Slaughter action happening. It's not like you're not gonna have removal for Tidebinder Mage. Dreadbore is a great card right now with so many planeswalker threats about. Good backup for the instant speed spells.
Just a few thoughts on how things are going. I think some sort of black is the best deck to play right now.
Took the RW devotion to FNM and went 4-1, should have lost more but people made play mistakes that cost them the game. Can't bank on that so that deck is out of the question.
Friend of mine keeps telling me JM is the deck to take, my heart tells me MBD (I play well with it) and I want to just try out UWR. I haven't seen UWR deck top lately (well at least if it has I haven't seen it.) so it could be unexpected.
How well do you think UWR sits in the meta right now?
I mean you still play your 4 jaces,2 elspeth, 4 sphinx , 4 supreme 4dsphere etc but Izzet charms, steam augury, fated conflag, assemble mainboard with more in the side as well as dragons, ral zarek for b/w midrange post board and the lot all provide ez instant speed answers to a lot of problematic cards. Most control decks are put on being tap out control decks and 95% of the decksare so throwing in those 8 or so fringe cards mainboard can give you answers for the weekend.
That'd be my advice as far as UWR. Steam augury,fated and izzet are also never dead cards and filter the dead cards in game 1s which is very nice.