Yeah Ash Zealot has been really good. Its basically Shock 2.0; 2 damage and then either 2 more damage or they have to spend a card to kill it. That's a lot of value in this deck. Having 8 haste creatures + 4 Mutavaults makes it a lot easier to close out games too.
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I'm starting to see people pay attention to this deck and put in sideboards accordingly. Like fiendslayer paladin just ruins us unless we get a chains or anger off. Likewise, putting fiendslayer paladin in OUR sideboard is great for the mirror- I'd probably run 4 temples,4 foundries and 4 guildgates for the double white though.
I tried wild ricochet on the sideboard vs the mirror or UW (try casting that on a revelation), but I've never gotten it to go off. Either opponent was dead, or I couldn't cast it. I run 23 lands, and it seems I rarely have more than 4-5 lands out by turn 10.
I'm not sure about ash zealot. It doesn't do much vs GR with caryatid and fatties just blocking it. It's OK vs black, but black has so much removal that just not giving them targets seems better. And it just gets tapped by tidebinders vs blue.
Some other sideboard/main thoughts on these cards?
Hammer of Purphoros- endgame card
Peak Eruption- vs other red decks (tempo and damage), and can hit a chained mountain if necessary
Glare of Heresy- vs gods
Fated conflagration- we're mostly racing so I dunno if I'd use it, but the scry is nice
Guttersnipe- too slow, vulnerable
Spark Trooper- big life swing, but vulnerable to removal
Aurelia's Fury- we don't really run enough mana sources for X
Assemble the Legion- seems slow
Viashino Fistblade- 4 dmg on t3 is ok
Chandra's Outrage- would like to do more damage to player than creature, but good vs blood baron?
Chandra the plainswalker- the 0 ability is nice, the ping seems weak
Great videos, thank you! It appeared that Ash Zealot appeared much more times than Satyr Firedancer, and does much more job. I'm going to construct and test my deck this weekend, and still not sure if it's worth to put Young Pyromancer there, instead of something else.
And yep, Mutavaults are great, but expensive, too.
No one plays Fiendslayer Paladin and it isn't hard for this deck to deal with anyway.
So is the list from your video the one your going to play this weekend at whatever event you're going too? I ask because I'm going to be playing this deck at the Atlanta SCG Open this coming weekend. I really like the inclusion of Ash Zealot over Young Pyromancer and am probably going to change to that. I hadn't thought of Spark Elemental either for the sideboard vs. R/G Monsters. It can probably buy you enough life and get through a point or two of damage to push you over the top of them.
Because it doesn't really do anything the turn it comes in and you can't protect it at all. Also, many times you are racing their creatures with your burn and a Helix is so good because it sets the other play back a turn possibly. Chandra would come down on 4 mana and eat some damage while Helix does damage and gains you some needed life.
It turns out I cannot find any Mutavaults yet, so I'm gonna assemble a deck without them... So I'm eally thinking of playing 12 creatures instead of 10 and picking Young Pyromancer over Satyr Firedancer, like @RealOG47 did.
Love this deck guys - I built something like it to playtest against another deck and I like this much better. I am tweaking mine and can't wait to play it! Please keep posting about deck changes and especially sideboard thoughts.
So, I tried a deck very close to @zemanjaski's - only I had two Temple of Malice instead of gates and one more Warleader's Helix instead of Skullcrack (really bad change, but had not found 4th Skullcrack before tournament).
I ran 3-1-1, with a draw to UW control and loss to monoblack. In top8 I won mono U but then again lost to monoblack. Desecration Demon is a real problem and every time Gray Merchant of Asphodel was cast, I didn't have Skullcrack or untapped mana to use it.
It was first run, I made mistakes, but general impression from the deck is very good. I will find 4th Skullcrack and maybe try to use Youn Pyromancer instead of Satyr Firedancer, just to see how it goes. Satyr Firedancer is brilliant against agro decks, it's combo with Searing Blood is impressive.
Hi, to all. I'm also playing a similar build to zemanjaski deck for the last 2 FNM and a recent PTQ Journey to Nyx here in Tokyo. Here is my current deck list.
Mar. 7, 2014 FNM
Went 3-0 with the deck vs. the following decks:
Round 1 vs Rakdos (Won 2-1)
Won games 1 and 3. The guy had Pack Rats, Desecration Demon, Spike Jester, Thoughtseize,and tons of spot removals. The decks was fast. It all came done to who had the godhand at the start to determine the winner. Used the same sideboard strategy mentioned by zemanjaski for mono-black devotion decks.
Round 2 vs Mono-Black Devotion (Won 2-0)
I can tell the guy did not have much experience with using his deck, so I took the games quickly. He had the usual black staples of Rats, DD, Thoughtseizes, Lifebane Zombie. Used the typical sideboard cards for MBD.
Round 3 vs GW Hexproof Lifegain (Won 2-0)
Game 1 - The guy was unlucky to mulligan down to 5 cards. All his creatures had hexproof (Gladecover Scout, Witchstalker, Sylvan Caryatid) so all burn was to the dome.
Game 2 - It was a race with his life gain and my burn. He had Ethereal Armors and Unflinching Courage on his boars!. The Spark Troopers and Revoke Existence did not come out, but fortunately the Skullcracks did.
For these games, the deck played out very well and as planned. I expected to get Theros gods, hence the choice for 2 Revoke Existence vs. +1 Spark Trooper and + 1 Toil//Trouble.
Mar. 8, 2014 PTQ Journey to Nyx
I got pounded and went 0-7 in all my games! I did not make any changes to the main deck or side board.
Round 1 vs. Mono-blue Devotion (Lost 0-2)
Both games had us just trading damage, with him gaining the upper hand once Master of Waves hit the battlefield. Used the recommended SB vs MUD, but it was still not enough. The Tidebinder Mage just keeps popping up and tapping either the Zealot or Phoenix, so I always reserve a burn in hand to deal with it.
Round 2 vs. Esper Control (Lost 0-2)
This my deck's nightmare! Sphinx' Rev is still advantage even with Skullcracks in hand.
Game 1 - Mana flooded and could not get out any relevant threats.
Game 2 - Stayed for 5 rounds with only 3 lands and burn. Seriously?!
Round 3 vs. RG Monsters (Lost 2-1)
Supposed to be the worst match-up for this deck but somehow eked out a win and games were close.
Game 1 - Got into an explosive start and took the game quickly.
Game 2 - Usual SB for this deck. But my opponent managed to get out a Whip of Erebos and Domri Rade and it was game over.
Game 3 - Polukranos + Boon Satyr as aura + Whip of Erebos. Need I say much? Revoke Existence and Chains did not show up.
Round 4 vs. Mono-Black Control (Lost 2-1)
Game 1 - Either I was super lucky, my opponent was super unlucky or both because I manage to win still 20 life. His Pack Rats got Searing Blood all the time.
Game 2 - Usual SB cards in. His Desecration Demons made their first appearance. Managed to take out the 1st one with 2 Lightning Strikes but not the 2nd one. Again the Chains failed me.
Game 3 - My opponent removed the Chains with Thoughtseizes before he plopped down 2 DDs and a Whip of Erebos and it was GG.
Round 5 vs. UW Control (Lost 0-2)
Contrary to as stated by zemanjaski, even with the recommended SB, I could not keep up with Sphinx's Rev and JAoT card advantages. His key card was actually Elixir of Immortality x3. With only 3 Skullcracks, there was no way burn him fast enough.
Round 6 vs. UG Aggro (Lost 0-2)
This round was a blur as the guy kept putting out Master of Waves, JAoT, Courser of Kruphix, Kiora's Follower. I was already too tired at that point to make good decisions and lost.
Round 7 vs. Orzhov Lifegain (Lost 1-2)
My opponent Thoughtseized my Chains time and time again before he plopped down a Blood Baron + Whip of Erebos. Too many spot removals vs. my creatures to gain enough damage traction.
Overall, my experience in the Tokyo PTQ was good even if I was blasted to oblivion. The level of decks and play here are higher than your typical FNM, which was to be expected.
Mar. 14, 2014 FNM
Went 1-2 with still the same deck.
Round 1 vs. Rakdos (Won 2-1)
This was the same guy I beat last Mar. 7. The results and the game matches were eerily similar to our previous match up, with me taking games 1 and 3 after SB.
Round 2 vs. BGW Life Gain (Lost 1-2)
The guy had Deathrite Shamans, Loxodon Smiters, Abrupt Decays, Doom Blades, Courser of Kruphix, Advent of the Wurm and Whip of Erebos and what not! Big creatures with life gain it too much. Once again, Revoke Existence and Chains were too shy to come out and give me the win. Spark Trooper came out but was cut short by Doom Blade.
Round 3 vs. Mono-Black Devotion (Lost 0-2)
Usual SB but still lost due to Thoughtseizes, Gray Merchants, DDs, spot removals and Whip of Erebos.
Deck Cons
The main problem I had was with decks with fast and large amounts of life gain. Two Revoke Existence are not fast enough and no redundancy for creature removal once the Chains got taken out by Thoughtseize. I was left with always double Lightning Strikes vs. 5/5 or 6/6 creatures or any 2 burns just to deal with a fatty.
Second problem I had was refilling my hand. By turns 4 or 5, I usually play out all the cards in my hand. Once I hit 5 lands, I keep extra lands in my hand as bluff for burn to keep my opponents guessing and stall them for playing 3 toughness creatures or less.
Third, the original deck has no way to capitalize on excess mana after 5 or 6 lands. That is why I opted to add 2 Rakdos Keyrune for late game back.
I had not gotten enough mileage out of Satyr Firedance since it is always a magnet for removal. But when it does stay, it is 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 when you have a burn in hand.
Deck Pros
Despite the cons, the deck is amazing and blazing fast when it works. I had won several games with only 3 lands (Temple of Silence and 2 mountains) as long as I get the correct burn sequences and draws. It always a head ache for my opponents which card to select for Thoughtseize if I have 5 different burn in hand and 2 mana open. I just need to make adjustments based on my current meta here to make it more resilient. I'd love any suggestions from you guys.
Don't vomit out your hand. If your hand is empty by turn 4, you should probably hold back, depending on the matchup.
Why the keyrune over mutavault? Adding black makes the mana less consistent, especially because you're not casting any black cards.
I would main all 4 skullcrack. Life gain is the main reason this deck loses.
my question about this archtype is how does one play against green/black hexproof decks? I tried some of these builds and I have a hard time dealing with Witchstalker and Reaper of the wilds. I play the version that has no Young pyromancers because I can't seem to figure out how to use him effectively.
Reaper is slow. If they cast it turn 4, try to hold chains for it. Reaper decks also usually don't run lifegain enchants. Maybe whip of erebos, if it's a dredgy version.
Witchstalker/gladecover hexproof? Just pray you have a fast burn hand, preferably one with lots of recurring damage (ash zealot, cackler/satyr), and skullcrack in hand. Side in wear//tear if you want and point it at lifegain enchants, the instant speed is critical (compared to something like revoke existence).
Wear//tear can also kill courser of kruphix in one of our worse matchups as well.
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Nice videos! I didn't have time yet to watch more than the first so far.
How do you feel about the changes you made to the deck? Did Ash Zealot live up to your expectations?
Sales Thread!
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I tried wild ricochet on the sideboard vs the mirror or UW (try casting that on a revelation), but I've never gotten it to go off. Either opponent was dead, or I couldn't cast it. I run 23 lands, and it seems I rarely have more than 4-5 lands out by turn 10.
I'm not sure about ash zealot. It doesn't do much vs GR with caryatid and fatties just blocking it. It's OK vs black, but black has so much removal that just not giving them targets seems better. And it just gets tapped by tidebinders vs blue.
Some other sideboard/main thoughts on these cards?
Hammer of Purphoros- endgame card
Peak Eruption- vs other red decks (tempo and damage), and can hit a chained mountain if necessary
Glare of Heresy- vs gods
Fated conflagration- we're mostly racing so I dunno if I'd use it, but the scry is nice
Guttersnipe- too slow, vulnerable
Spark Trooper- big life swing, but vulnerable to removal
Aurelia's Fury- we don't really run enough mana sources for X
Assemble the Legion- seems slow
Viashino Fistblade- 4 dmg on t3 is ok
Chandra's Outrage- would like to do more damage to player than creature, but good vs blood baron?
Chandra the plainswalker- the 0 ability is nice, the ping seems weak
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Great videos, thank you! It appeared that Ash Zealot appeared much more times than Satyr Firedancer, and does much more job. I'm going to construct and test my deck this weekend, and still not sure if it's worth to put Young Pyromancer there, instead of something else.
And yep, Mutavaults are great, but expensive, too.
So is the list from your video the one your going to play this weekend at whatever event you're going too? I ask because I'm going to be playing this deck at the Atlanta SCG Open this coming weekend. I really like the inclusion of Ash Zealot over Young Pyromancer and am probably going to change to that. I hadn't thought of Spark Elemental either for the sideboard vs. R/G Monsters. It can probably buy you enough life and get through a point or two of damage to push you over the top of them.
Article on the deck explaining all the choices: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/playing-with-fire-boros-burn-for-grand-prix-melbourne/
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Because it doesn't really do anything the turn it comes in and you can't protect it at all. Also, many times you are racing their creatures with your burn and a Helix is so good because it sets the other play back a turn possibly. Chandra would come down on 4 mana and eat some damage while Helix does damage and gains you some needed life.
Blackyce - How did you do in the Open?
I ran 3-1-1, with a draw to UW control and loss to monoblack. In top8 I won mono U but then again lost to monoblack. Desecration Demon is a real problem and every time Gray Merchant of Asphodel was cast, I didn't have Skullcrack or untapped mana to use it.
It was first run, I made mistakes, but general impression from the deck is very good. I will find 4th Skullcrack and maybe try to use Youn Pyromancer instead of Satyr Firedancer, just to see how it goes. Satyr Firedancer is brilliant against agro decks, it's combo with Searing Blood is impressive.
The article includes observations about the deck, its place in the meta, and strategic play and sideboarding advice.
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I read this today right when Channel Fireball posted it to facebook. Great job!!!
The deck is very solid, and I am loving playing with it. I was originally a doubter on Searing Blood but not anymore.
CFB Player Zem playing updated RW Burn through an 8-man.
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Hey! I've enjoyed the content so far and am now rocking a similar version to one of your latest builds.
Thanks!
Sales Thread!
4 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
12 Mountain
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Satyr Firedancer
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Blood
3 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Sparktrooper
2 Revoke Existence
2 Toil//Trouble
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Satyr Firedancer
Mar. 7, 2014 FNM
Went 3-0 with the deck vs. the following decks:
Round 1 vs Rakdos (Won 2-1)
Won games 1 and 3. The guy had Pack Rats, Desecration Demon, Spike Jester, Thoughtseize,and tons of spot removals. The decks was fast. It all came done to who had the godhand at the start to determine the winner. Used the same sideboard strategy mentioned by zemanjaski for mono-black devotion decks.
Round 2 vs Mono-Black Devotion (Won 2-0)
I can tell the guy did not have much experience with using his deck, so I took the games quickly. He had the usual black staples of Rats, DD, Thoughtseizes, Lifebane Zombie. Used the typical sideboard cards for MBD.
Round 3 vs GW Hexproof Lifegain (Won 2-0)
Game 1 - The guy was unlucky to mulligan down to 5 cards. All his creatures had hexproof (Gladecover Scout, Witchstalker, Sylvan Caryatid) so all burn was to the dome.
Game 2 - It was a race with his life gain and my burn. He had Ethereal Armors and Unflinching Courage on his boars!. The Spark Troopers and Revoke Existence did not come out, but fortunately the Skullcracks did.
For these games, the deck played out very well and as planned. I expected to get Theros gods, hence the choice for 2 Revoke Existence vs. +1 Spark Trooper and + 1 Toil//Trouble.
Mar. 8, 2014 PTQ Journey to Nyx
I got pounded and went 0-7 in all my games! I did not make any changes to the main deck or side board.
Round 1 vs. Mono-blue Devotion (Lost 0-2)
Both games had us just trading damage, with him gaining the upper hand once Master of Waves hit the battlefield. Used the recommended SB vs MUD, but it was still not enough. The Tidebinder Mage just keeps popping up and tapping either the Zealot or Phoenix, so I always reserve a burn in hand to deal with it.
Round 2 vs. Esper Control (Lost 0-2)
This my deck's nightmare! Sphinx' Rev is still advantage even with Skullcracks in hand.
Game 1 - Mana flooded and could not get out any relevant threats.
Game 2 - Stayed for 5 rounds with only 3 lands and burn. Seriously?!
Round 3 vs. RG Monsters (Lost 2-1)
Supposed to be the worst match-up for this deck but somehow eked out a win and games were close.
Game 1 - Got into an explosive start and took the game quickly.
Game 2 - Usual SB for this deck. But my opponent managed to get out a Whip of Erebos and Domri Rade and it was game over.
Game 3 - Polukranos + Boon Satyr as aura + Whip of Erebos. Need I say much? Revoke Existence and Chains did not show up.
Round 4 vs. Mono-Black Control (Lost 2-1)
Game 1 - Either I was super lucky, my opponent was super unlucky or both because I manage to win still 20 life. His Pack Rats got Searing Blood all the time.
Game 2 - Usual SB cards in. His Desecration Demons made their first appearance. Managed to take out the 1st one with 2 Lightning Strikes but not the 2nd one. Again the Chains failed me.
Game 3 - My opponent removed the Chains with Thoughtseizes before he plopped down 2 DDs and a Whip of Erebos and it was GG.
Round 5 vs. UW Control (Lost 0-2)
Contrary to as stated by zemanjaski, even with the recommended SB, I could not keep up with Sphinx's Rev and JAoT card advantages. His key card was actually Elixir of Immortality x3. With only 3 Skullcracks, there was no way burn him fast enough.
Round 6 vs. UG Aggro (Lost 0-2)
This round was a blur as the guy kept putting out Master of Waves, JAoT, Courser of Kruphix, Kiora's Follower. I was already too tired at that point to make good decisions and lost.
Round 7 vs. Orzhov Lifegain (Lost 1-2)
My opponent Thoughtseized my Chains time and time again before he plopped down a Blood Baron + Whip of Erebos. Too many spot removals vs. my creatures to gain enough damage traction.
Overall, my experience in the Tokyo PTQ was good even if I was blasted to oblivion. The level of decks and play here are higher than your typical FNM, which was to be expected.
Mar. 14, 2014 FNM
Went 1-2 with still the same deck.
Round 1 vs. Rakdos (Won 2-1)
This was the same guy I beat last Mar. 7. The results and the game matches were eerily similar to our previous match up, with me taking games 1 and 3 after SB.
Round 2 vs. BGW Life Gain (Lost 1-2)
The guy had Deathrite Shamans, Loxodon Smiters, Abrupt Decays, Doom Blades, Courser of Kruphix, Advent of the Wurm and Whip of Erebos and what not! Big creatures with life gain it too much. Once again, Revoke Existence and Chains were too shy to come out and give me the win. Spark Trooper came out but was cut short by Doom Blade.
Round 3 vs. Mono-Black Devotion (Lost 0-2)
Usual SB but still lost due to Thoughtseizes, Gray Merchants, DDs, spot removals and Whip of Erebos.
Deck Cons
The main problem I had was with decks with fast and large amounts of life gain. Two Revoke Existence are not fast enough and no redundancy for creature removal once the Chains got taken out by Thoughtseize. I was left with always double Lightning Strikes vs. 5/5 or 6/6 creatures or any 2 burns just to deal with a fatty.
Second problem I had was refilling my hand. By turns 4 or 5, I usually play out all the cards in my hand. Once I hit 5 lands, I keep extra lands in my hand as bluff for burn to keep my opponents guessing and stall them for playing 3 toughness creatures or less.
Third, the original deck has no way to capitalize on excess mana after 5 or 6 lands. That is why I opted to add 2 Rakdos Keyrune for late game back.
I had not gotten enough mileage out of Satyr Firedance since it is always a magnet for removal. But when it does stay, it is 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 when you have a burn in hand.
Deck Pros
Despite the cons, the deck is amazing and blazing fast when it works. I had won several games with only 3 lands (Temple of Silence and 2 mountains) as long as I get the correct burn sequences and draws. It always a head ache for my opponents which card to select for Thoughtseize if I have 5 different burn in hand and 2 mana open. I just need to make adjustments based on my current meta here to make it more resilient. I'd love any suggestions from you guys.
Why the keyrune over mutavault? Adding black makes the mana less consistent, especially because you're not casting any black cards.
I would main all 4 skullcrack. Life gain is the main reason this deck loses.
Witchstalker/gladecover hexproof? Just pray you have a fast burn hand, preferably one with lots of recurring damage (ash zealot, cackler/satyr), and skullcrack in hand. Side in wear//tear if you want and point it at lifegain enchants, the instant speed is critical (compared to something like revoke existence).
Wear//tear can also kill courser of kruphix in one of our worse matchups as well.