Let's say two people are playing the same deck. They both start the game at 5 life with only swamps, desecration demon, and hero's downfalls in their decks.
The opening turns are "land go". Once I hit 4 mana, assuming I have some demons and downfalls in my hand, what do I do?
If I play a demon, it probably gets downfalled. My opponent untaps and then plays their own demon. Then I untap can either play demon or downfall. If I play demon to match his, then I risk him downfalling my demon on his turn and then swinging lethal. So I should always prefer to downfall his demon first. When I downfall his demon, he then untaps, I have no threat on the board, and his optimal play is to jam another demon. Repeat until I falter.
If I hold up mana and don't play a demon, and just downfall my opponent's demon, then play my own, the situation is reversed, and I feel favored. I.e. getting to play the demon SECOND means that you can play an uninterrupted stream of demons, whereas playing the FIRST demon means you are committing to playing just one demon (and seeing if it sticks...) and then removing all of the demons your opponent has until one of you runs out of steam.
What is the correct strategy for this minigame? Or does it not matter assuming both players have equal draws?
There is no correct answer. If you go first then you are on the backfoot until turn 7 because then you can play a Demon and kill his then on turn 8 you drop 2 Demons.
whoever draws first in this case loses (assuming precisely equal draws) because they'll deck first.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Both players have equal draws (OP states this) therefore the person to draws first loses. Since in this case, if the draws are equal neither player will ever be able to pressure the other (either it's two demons and one player swings, they trade, or it's an empty board). Because of this, the one who decks first loses.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
You always play the threat unless doing so will have a chance of killing you (e.g. they can play something with haste, or they can potentially kill the blocker and swing lethal and you have removal in hand you could have played instead). In other words, the decision making tree is quite linear for these types of decks. Once you start throwing in decks with counter spells, and decks with 1-3 win con's then it gets a lot different.
This is also why Control players tend to say certain decks are less decision making oriented. There are other variables of course (having these thought experiments that aren't applicable to reality is pointless), assuming they have something like Blood Baron in their deck and you have one of your only Devour Flesh in hands, do you play it? If you plan to win via tempo and have a board presence, it's a risk one might take, otherwise no. There are a lot of different scenario's that you have to use critical thinking (e.g. the brain) to come to certain probabilities and your risk aversion. Generally, for me, I'd hold onto it as long as I could.
In your simple scenario that doesn't really teach us anything about reality, I'd always play the Demon because there's no reward in not doing so. You're either going to waste mana/turns (efficiency), or they're going to have more removal in hand than you do Demon's and again, you lose mana/efficiency by not taking those answers out of their hand. In other words, I don't ever see a scenario where there is no board presence, you're first to 4 swamps, and you don't play DD.
I'm assuming this would also change because of the matchup, but in a vacuum, let's say i was running control and i'm up to 5 mana, including the land for turn. I'd drawn into Desecration Demon, and the rest of my hand is removal. I can leave U open to bluff a Dispel if i play the demon, but otherwise, i cannot hold up for both removal or DD, it's one or the other. I'm in no hurry to play DD but I'd also like to apply pressure to the board when i can. Against control i can imagine playing him anyway--at worst he draws removal or counterspells, and my removal would be useless anyway, but what about against other decks?
The answer is whoever plays the demon first loses. Why? This is because the other person is assumed to have mana up. So it is effectively a competition of 4 mana v 8 mana. (Assuming you've got 4 swamps each)
Thankfully this is a highly unrealistic and uncharacteristic representation of a game of magic.
The opening turns are "land go". Once I hit 4 mana, assuming I have some demons and downfalls in my hand, what do I do?
If I play a demon, it probably gets downfalled. My opponent untaps and then plays their own demon. Then I untap can either play demon or downfall. If I play demon to match his, then I risk him downfalling my demon on his turn and then swinging lethal. So I should always prefer to downfall his demon first. When I downfall his demon, he then untaps, I have no threat on the board, and his optimal play is to jam another demon. Repeat until I falter.
If I hold up mana and don't play a demon, and just downfall my opponent's demon, then play my own, the situation is reversed, and I feel favored. I.e. getting to play the demon SECOND means that you can play an uninterrupted stream of demons, whereas playing the FIRST demon means you are committing to playing just one demon (and seeing if it sticks...) and then removing all of the demons your opponent has until one of you runs out of steam.
What is the correct strategy for this minigame? Or does it not matter assuming both players have equal draws?
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
This is also why Control players tend to say certain decks are less decision making oriented. There are other variables of course (having these thought experiments that aren't applicable to reality is pointless), assuming they have something like Blood Baron in their deck and you have one of your only Devour Flesh in hands, do you play it? If you plan to win via tempo and have a board presence, it's a risk one might take, otherwise no. There are a lot of different scenario's that you have to use critical thinking (e.g. the brain) to come to certain probabilities and your risk aversion. Generally, for me, I'd hold onto it as long as I could.
In your simple scenario that doesn't really teach us anything about reality, I'd always play the Demon because there's no reward in not doing so. You're either going to waste mana/turns (efficiency), or they're going to have more removal in hand than you do Demon's and again, you lose mana/efficiency by not taking those answers out of their hand. In other words, I don't ever see a scenario where there is no board presence, you're first to 4 swamps, and you don't play DD.
enchanting Witchstalker with Raised by Wolves
The answer is whoever plays the demon first loses. Why? This is because the other person is assumed to have mana up. So it is effectively a competition of 4 mana v 8 mana. (Assuming you've got 4 swamps each)
Thankfully this is a highly unrealistic and uncharacteristic representation of a game of magic.