I would like to enhance "Ajani, Valiant Protector" PW Deck, but I fail to get ressources.
Most of the time, competitive decks goes to GW token with 8 PW, but I can't afford that.
Edit:
1- I rebuilt both deck to focus on Revolt Mechanic.
2- For those who don't understand the reasons why I build PW Decks this way, my read my comments in #3
I personally think trying to make the prebuilt decks better is a terrible way to try to make good decks. They're really bad to begin with and with the number of cards you have to add to the deck to get decent play out of them, you probably would've saved money just by building from scratch.
For example, with the 2 decks you have listed, the GWb is the list with the most potential, but with just what you'll need in lands to make it competitive, you could build a budget deck from scratch and have a much stronger list. Add in the other cards you'd need to have more copies of your strong cards (so you can cut your weaker cards), and you're looking at a high price for a deck that is still likely to perform mediocrely, especially when compared to GB Constrictor, which of course it's going to be compared to.
Since we're here though, and this is the list we have to start. Let's get building.
1. More lands. you need to get to 6 mana, 20 isn't going to get you there. You'll need 24, possibly 25 lands.
2. Buy good lands. I know they're expensive, but they're the best investment the budget player can make. I personally find 2 color decks have consistency issues without good lands. 3 colors without good lands, I won't even attempt. Buying lands is the most important part of playing magic, and it's the most useful. If I buy a good rare/mythic, it will go in 1 deck, maybe 2 decks before it rotates out of standard. However, if I buy a good land, it has the potential to go in many decks before that happens. A Concealed Courtyard easily goes in 2, 3 and 4 color decks. Buy good lands.
3. Focus on a strategy. Your creatures are kind of all over the place. I like Winding Constrictor with Scrounging Bandar and I'm happy to see them as 4-ofs. But then your next 4-of is Renegade Rallier, a card that cares about Revolt and bringing 2 cmc permanents back, but the 2 mana permanents you have are a bit awful... I'd say either pick +1/+1 Counters as a way to go and focus on that, or pick Revolt and focus on that. Your deck will be better.
4. Cut the bad cards. And there are MANY. Ajani's Aid looks to be one of the worst cards I've ever seen... I kinda feel the same way about Renegade Map. I think I would rather it was just 4 Evolving Wilds because I feel like that would be better. The one thing I do know is there's a lot to cull.
I hope that's helpful. Good luck with your deck building.
Thanks for yur replay.
I'm sorry, I'm not playing competitive or versus 'well-builded' decks.
I'm just playing casually versus others PW Decks I'm improved also.
It performed well with previous Chandra and Nissa PW Decks, which where performing vehicule and energy mechanics.
1. More Lands. At the opposite of Evolving Wilds, I'm playing with Renegade Map that will add a land of my choice, instead of replacing and going on-board tapped. I think the land account can be cut. Is it really a bad idea ? Please let me know ...
2. Buy Good Lands. In my playing context, I think you understood I don't need to afford so much rare lands
3. Focus on a strategy. You right, and I was rebuilding this abzan deck to focus more on Revolt mechanic, which is, I think, the mechanic presented in this deck (as well as improvise in the Tezzeret one. So I updated both lists above.
4. Cut the bad cards. I hope you understand the reasons why I keep such worst cards ^^ Please let me know the one you don't like in the new list
I built a GWB Revolt deck and went 0-4 at FNM but lost 1-2 in each match. I kept flooding out in the late game...
Things I would recommend:
-I feel in either version, 20 lands should be more than enough. With Renegade Map and Terrarion, you should have no problem getting up to 5 lands and having the right mana to cast your spells.
-A VERY good card to help fix mana in the early game, as well as accompanying the revolt mechanic is Unbridled Growth. It sacs itself for free for a revolt trigger and draws you a card.
-If you want to focus more on the revolt mechanic, you can look into "flicker" effects, such as Long Road Home, or Acrobatic Maneuver to double your revolt triggers and get extra mileage for each creature.
Hope my input can help out in testing your deck for your parameters
-Perhaps you could use Deadeye Harpooner in both list. It can be used a situational removal and is a fine card to use in the GW version in place of Vengeful Rebel. It could also be a possible replacement for Blessed Alliance while still staying in theme. However, I would try running both of them.
-Another option is you could add colorless to the GW version to use Eldrazi Displacer and Spatial Contortion for added control and spot removal. With Renegade Map you can find a Wastes card or maybe add in more possible Evolving Wilds to the main deck. It's an idea I might try this FNM with my deck.
-One thing I noticed with my GWB version is that my cards would get outclassed in the late game, due to lack of evasion or size. I would think either of running a vehicle, such as Untethered Express or Renegade Freighter to utilize the smaller creatures in the late game. Or you can go with more evasion with Airdrop Aeronauts to help stabilize and give you a viable answer against opposing planeswalkers by attacking in the air.
Here is a deck I found, with 4 colors: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-four-color-revolt-standard
The guy goes 14 2cmc creatures 8 3cmc and then 13 revolts triggers (Renegade Map, Terrarion, Unbridled Growth, Evolving Wilds).
For me blue doesn't add much, but maybe in the constructions there is some ideas to take in consideration.
I would like to enhance "Ajani, Valiant Protector" PW Deck, but I fail to get ressources.
Most of the time, competitive decks goes to GW token with 8 PW, but I can't afford that.
Edit:
1- I rebuilt both deck to focus on Revolt Mechanic.
2- For those who don't understand the reasons why I build PW Decks this way, my read my comments in #3
So I'm trying to setup these decks :
1 Ajani, Valiant Protector
//Creature
1 Angel of Invention
4 Countless Gears Renegade
1 Greenwheel Liberator
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Ridgescale Tusker
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Scrounging Bandar
1 Solemn Recruit
4 Thraben Inspector
2 Treasure Keeper
3 Blessed Alliance
//Sorcery
1 Collective Effort
1 Sram's Expertise
//Enchantment
1 Aid from the Cowl
2 Ajani's Aid
1 Oath of Ajani
//Artifacts
4 Renegade Map
4 Terrarion
1 Canopy Vista
8 Forest
11 Plains
1 Ajani, Valiant Protector
//Creature
1 Angel of Invention
4 Countless Gears Renegade
4 Renegade Rallier
2 Ridgescale Tusker
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
1 Solemn Recruit
4 Thraben Inspector
2 Treasure Keeper
2 Vengeful Rebel
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Fatal Push
//Sorcery
1 Collective Effort
1 Sram's Expertise
//Enchantment
1 Aid from the Cowl
2 Ajani's Aid
1 Oath of Ajani
//Artifacts
4 Renegade Map
4 Terrarion
1 Canopy Vista
2 Evolving Wilds
6 Forest
10 Plains
1 Swamp
So I don't know if going to GW+b is good with a such mana base. What do you think guys ?
P.S.: For my decks, I try to get a event deck style with 10-12 single rares/mythic cards (low value for sure !).
For example, with the 2 decks you have listed, the GWb is the list with the most potential, but with just what you'll need in lands to make it competitive, you could build a budget deck from scratch and have a much stronger list. Add in the other cards you'd need to have more copies of your strong cards (so you can cut your weaker cards), and you're looking at a high price for a deck that is still likely to perform mediocrely, especially when compared to GB Constrictor, which of course it's going to be compared to.
Since we're here though, and this is the list we have to start. Let's get building.
1. More lands. you need to get to 6 mana, 20 isn't going to get you there. You'll need 24, possibly 25 lands.
2. Buy good lands. I know they're expensive, but they're the best investment the budget player can make. I personally find 2 color decks have consistency issues without good lands. 3 colors without good lands, I won't even attempt. Buying lands is the most important part of playing magic, and it's the most useful. If I buy a good rare/mythic, it will go in 1 deck, maybe 2 decks before it rotates out of standard. However, if I buy a good land, it has the potential to go in many decks before that happens. A Concealed Courtyard easily goes in 2, 3 and 4 color decks. Buy good lands.
3. Focus on a strategy. Your creatures are kind of all over the place. I like Winding Constrictor with Scrounging Bandar and I'm happy to see them as 4-ofs. But then your next 4-of is Renegade Rallier, a card that cares about Revolt and bringing 2 cmc permanents back, but the 2 mana permanents you have are a bit awful... I'd say either pick +1/+1 Counters as a way to go and focus on that, or pick Revolt and focus on that. Your deck will be better.
4. Cut the bad cards. And there are MANY. Ajani's Aid looks to be one of the worst cards I've ever seen... I kinda feel the same way about Renegade Map. I think I would rather it was just 4 Evolving Wilds because I feel like that would be better. The one thing I do know is there's a lot to cull.
I hope that's helpful. Good luck with your deck building.
Thanks for yur replay.
I'm sorry, I'm not playing competitive or versus 'well-builded' decks.
I'm just playing casually versus others PW Decks I'm improved also.
It performed well with previous Chandra and Nissa PW Decks, which where performing vehicule and energy mechanics.
1. More Lands. At the opposite of Evolving Wilds, I'm playing with Renegade Map that will add a land of my choice, instead of replacing and going on-board tapped. I think the land account can be cut. Is it really a bad idea ? Please let me know ...
2. Buy Good Lands. In my playing context, I think you understood I don't need to afford so much rare lands
3. Focus on a strategy. You right, and I was rebuilding this abzan deck to focus more on Revolt mechanic, which is, I think, the mechanic presented in this deck (as well as improvise in the Tezzeret one. So I updated both lists above.
4. Cut the bad cards. I hope you understand the reasons why I keep such worst cards ^^ Please let me know the one you don't like in the new list
Thanks for you help !
Things I would recommend:
-I feel in either version, 20 lands should be more than enough. With Renegade Map and Terrarion, you should have no problem getting up to 5 lands and having the right mana to cast your spells.
-A VERY good card to help fix mana in the early game, as well as accompanying the revolt mechanic is Unbridled Growth. It sacs itself for free for a revolt trigger and draws you a card.
-Have you thought about Greenwheel Liberator in the 2 mana slot? With Renegade Rallier, it can easily become a 4/3 for 2 mana. A fine target for Renegade Rallier.
-If you want to focus more on the revolt mechanic, you can look into "flicker" effects, such as Long Road Home, or Acrobatic Maneuver to double your revolt triggers and get extra mileage for each creature.
Hope my input can help out in testing your deck for your parameters
Standard: Risky Burn, Aggro/Burn, Tempo
Modern: Goblins, Budget 8 Rack, Soul Sisters, 42 Land Swan Hunt, Stompy, Burn
Pauper: Miracles, Madness
I've made some changes since my last update, and some of them are matching you suggestions (Unbridled Growth and Greenwheel Liberator)
- 20 lands: ok
- Unbridled Growth: yes a good card, as good as Terrarion, but I need enough Forest to enable it !
- Greenwheel Liberator: ok
- Long Road Home or Acrobatic Maneuver: I tought about these cards but I don't know what to remove ... if I remove Blessed Alliance I'm worried about the number of removals. In GW, I may remove 2 Scrounging Bandar and in GWb maybe remove Blessed Alliance I have 4 other black removals. I also thought about Felidar Guardian and Eerie Interlude. CCM is higher but I can get a body, which is in addition in the theme of Ajani What do you think ?
Here are the last updates:
1 Ajani, Valiant Protector
//Creature
1 Angel of Invention
4 Countless Gears Renegade
1 Greenwheel Liberator
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Ridgescale Tusker
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Scrounging Bandar
1 Solemn Recruit
4 Thraben Inspector
2 Treasure Keeper
3 Blessed Alliance
//Sorcery
1 Collective Effort
1 Sram's Expertise
//Enchantment
1 Aid from the Cowl
2 Ajani's Aid
1 Oath of Ajani
//Artifacts
4 Renegade Map
4 Unbridled Growth
//Land
1 Canopy Vista
9 Forest
10 Plains
1 Ajani, Valiant Protector
//Creature
1 Angel of Invention
4 Countless Gears Renegade
4 Renegade Rallier
2 Ridgescale Tusker
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
1 Solemn Recruit
4 Thraben Inspector
2 Treasure Keeper
2 Vengeful Rebel
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Fatal Push
//Sorcery
1 Collective Effort
1 Sram's Expertise
//Enchantment
1 Aid from the Cowl
2 Ajani's Aid
1 Oath of Ajani
//Artifacts
4 Renegade Map
4 Unbridled Growth
//Land
1 Canopy Vista
2 Evolving Wilds
10 Forest
6 Plains
1 Swamp
-Perhaps you could use Deadeye Harpooner in both list. It can be used a situational removal and is a fine card to use in the GW version in place of Vengeful Rebel. It could also be a possible replacement for Blessed Alliance while still staying in theme. However, I would try running both of them.
-Another option is you could add colorless to the GW version to use Eldrazi Displacer and Spatial Contortion for added control and spot removal. With Renegade Map you can find a Wastes card or maybe add in more possible Evolving Wilds to the main deck. It's an idea I might try this FNM with my deck.
-One thing I noticed with my GWB version is that my cards would get outclassed in the late game, due to lack of evasion or size. I would think either of running a vehicle, such as Untethered Express or Renegade Freighter to utilize the smaller creatures in the late game. Or you can go with more evasion with Airdrop Aeronauts to help stabilize and give you a viable answer against opposing planeswalkers by attacking in the air.
Standard: Risky Burn, Aggro/Burn, Tempo
Modern: Goblins, Budget 8 Rack, Soul Sisters, 42 Land Swan Hunt, Stompy, Burn
Pauper: Miracles, Madness
Here are some others :
- Call for Unity looks better than Aid from the Cowl
- Eldritch Evolution : can fetch and trigger revolt, so looks great !
- The Gitrog Monster : access to a sacrifice each turn and draws + it is a big frog
- Thalia's Lieutenant - Metallic Mimic: if there is enough humans
- Winding Constrictor - back on my first idea, and use enough revolt mechanic ?
- Bone Splinters: as a kind of low cost Fatal Push + revolt trigger ?
Here is a deck I found, with 4 colors:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-four-color-revolt-standard
The guy goes 14 2cmc creatures 8 3cmc and then 13 revolts triggers (Renegade Map, Terrarion, Unbridled Growth, Evolving Wilds).
For me blue doesn't add much, but maybe in the constructions there is some ideas to take in consideration.
This one uses more +1/+1 counter with Winding Constrictor
https://deckbox.org/sets/1624429
This deck reminds me my first idea ...
Some other threads talking about this deck :
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/767742-gw-revolt
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/770424-gw-revolt
Another idea is maybe to go higher in cmc, since Revolt mechanic force to trigger it previously.
So a kind of mid-range control
My last version focused more on counters:
1 Ajani, Valiant Protector
//Creature
2 Narnam Renegade
4 Scrounging Bandar
4 Winding Constrictor
1 Aethergeode Miner
1 Greenwheel Liberator
3 Renegade Rallier
2 Vengeful Rebel
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1 Solemn Recruit
2 Ridgescale Tusker
2 Fatal Push
2 Long Road Home
//Sorcery
1 Collective Effort
//Artifacts
4 Renegade Map
//Enchants
4 Unbridled Growth
1 Oath of Ajani
2 Ajani's Aid
1 Call for Unity
//Land
1 Canopy Vista
4 Evolving Wilds
10 Forest
4 Plains
1 Swamp
This version is inspired by http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-01-17-BoW-abzan-tokens/#c2973689.
It helped me to lower mana curve as well as beging more consistent on 2nd and 3rd turns.
I prefer not playing Hidden Stockpile since the low interactions with Winding Constrictor and is not much aggressive.
Please give me your thoughts