I don't think Brain in a Jar works in any list as a 1 of. If you don't cast it early, it isn't very effective. If were talking about getting an instant speed Rise from the Tides, then we need to get to 6 counters. That's 6 turns. If you don't draw it until turn 6 or later, then you're talking about turn 12 at the earliest. That's not at all helpful. You're not even likely to get it by turn 6 if it's a 1-of.
Like I said though, the best version of the list I posted is the mono-black. I'm working today, so I have plenty of time to mess with it. I'll probably sit and think and mess with it and I'll see if I can post a better version than the one I threw together on the B/x zombie thread. It's unlikely to be block since it's mono-black zombie control. It's definitely going to have Risen Executioner and Languish.
Ok, didn't take long to refine the deck a little bit from what I had. Add in some card draw and some more discard so I can be more reliable casting Floorboards with madness for the coup de grace. The budget is higher than what I'd normally do, but since I have no intention of buying the cards or putting together a list....
All kidding aside, it looks like Ob Nixilis Reignited is going for about $7 right now, Risen Executioner for $5 and Languish for $8. That's gonna be almost $60 for just those cards in this build. Executioner is needed for this list, since the win-con is Zombie tokens + anthem. You could technically go with Deathbringer Regent instead of Languish, but it will be much slower removal, and will make Executioner harder to revive. Ob Nix can be any other draw. If you change those 2, you can probably cut $35 out of the list.
While I was building, I considered a white splash for Declaration in Stone and Planar Outburst, some man lands, maybe Sorin instead of Ob Nix, but BW control has already been done. No one is doing mono-Black!
Not having Abbey is a mistake. More win conditions are always a good thing. It's bot like it would hurt you to run it, plus it gives an extra angle of attack. Why didn't you just post this in B/X Zombies? Sure, this thread is a tap-out control deck but it's a Rise from the Tides control deck and you're not running the namesake card.
I guess I don't think about Westvale Abbey that much when I'm picking my cards. I don't normally have a lot of trouble with it. I don't like it very much. I know it's a good card and it's in use in a lot of tournaments, but if you aren't playing GW tokens, then you have to give up 2 turns to get it online. 1 to cast your big token producer, 1 to flip Abbey, and you're looking at an expenditure of 6+ mana in each case. Then if they bounce, exile or arrest it (btw, I've been away from the game. Do they still call using cards like Suppression Bonds by the blanket term "arrest"?), then they stole 2 whole turns from you with minimal investment. I just don't like it. It's a personal preference. If you like the list and you like Westvale, you add it in! lol
And I did post the first verson of that deck in B/x zombies. As I stated, I'm not going to buy these cards, so I'm not going to have any playtesting or advice for them. If someone is inspired by that first list, I'll happily share this second list. Right now, I'm just here having a conversation, mostly with you. I'm willing to discuss Tides since I didn't add it to the deck.
I don't think it works very well without Brain in a Jar. Sure it can get a bunch of tokens, but it's 6 mana and it brings them in tapped. You're talking about the 6th or later turn (in most cases, later since you actually want to have some instants/sorceries in the GY before you cast it). By this point, I feel like I'd be low on life and need something to turn the game around/stabilize. Rise from the Tides doesn't give you that. It gives your opponents a free attack past a bunch of tapped zombies and leaves most of your mana, if not all, tied up. That's the main reason I wasn't compelled to follow the same gameplan but leave it out. If you want a zombie token plan and you're committed to madness, Under the Floorboards is better. It can be played EOT leaving mana open to respond to opponents and it'll gain you life. That will turn your game around and stabilize.
I think the idea/strategy of the deck is a good one. I don't think Tides is good enough to be worth adding a 2nd or a 3rd color.
You are aware that Abbeys flip side has haste correct? Which means you can sandbag it until you're able to flip it the turn it comes out.
Maybe I'm not articulating the quality of the card enough. It is a strong alternate win condition with zero opportunity cost because it's a land that you can still use to cast your spells. Just it's presence on the field as a land could make your opponent slip up rethinking their line of play. Even something as simple as leaving mana up for removal for it if you were to flip it can create a tempo advantage in your favor that, if capitalized upon, can solidify the game in your favor.
Yes, us older players still use those terms. I think they're pretty common. Pacify also works. Although, those cards seldom see play anymore.
Yes, with Tides it does suck about them coming into play tapped. So much so that it may be beneficial to pick up three more copies of Brain to actually test it fully. I only had one and tried it in the original, we both know it's only good if you drop it t2. Of those times where I did drop it t2 I usually found myself in positions where I would rather play a different spell. Now, as I said that was in a completely different version of the deck where many of the card choices were fluid. Now that I have a good understanding of what the strategy needs to work it may be better.
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Like I said though, the best version of the list I posted is the mono-black. I'm working today, so I have plenty of time to mess with it. I'll probably sit and think and mess with it and I'll see if I can post a better version than the one I threw together on the B/x zombie thread. It's unlikely to be block since it's mono-black zombie control. It's definitely going to have Risen Executioner and Languish.
All kidding aside, it looks like Ob Nixilis Reignited is going for about $7 right now, Risen Executioner for $5 and Languish for $8. That's gonna be almost $60 for just those cards in this build. Executioner is needed for this list, since the win-con is Zombie tokens + anthem. You could technically go with Deathbringer Regent instead of Languish, but it will be much slower removal, and will make Executioner harder to revive. Ob Nix can be any other draw. If you change those 2, you can probably cut $35 out of the list.
I didn't price the rest of the list.
4 Risen Executioner
Sorceries 13
4 From Under the Floorboards
4 Gisa's Bidding
3 Languish
2 Ruinous Path
Instants 6
4 Altar's Reap
2 To the Slaughter
2 Call the Bloodline
4 Sinister Concoction
Artifacts 4
4 Corrupted Grafstone
Planeswalkers 2
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Lands 25
4 Blighted Fen
4 Sea Gate Wreckage
17 Swamp
3 Alms of the Vein
3 Pick the Brain
4 Relentless Dead
2 Tainted Remedy
3 Virulent Plague
Ok, there it is. Open for discussion.
While I was building, I considered a white splash for Declaration in Stone and Planar Outburst, some man lands, maybe Sorin instead of Ob Nix, but BW control has already been done. No one is doing mono-Black!
And I did post the first verson of that deck in B/x zombies. As I stated, I'm not going to buy these cards, so I'm not going to have any playtesting or advice for them. If someone is inspired by that first list, I'll happily share this second list. Right now, I'm just here having a conversation, mostly with you. I'm willing to discuss Tides since I didn't add it to the deck.
I don't think it works very well without Brain in a Jar. Sure it can get a bunch of tokens, but it's 6 mana and it brings them in tapped. You're talking about the 6th or later turn (in most cases, later since you actually want to have some instants/sorceries in the GY before you cast it). By this point, I feel like I'd be low on life and need something to turn the game around/stabilize. Rise from the Tides doesn't give you that. It gives your opponents a free attack past a bunch of tapped zombies and leaves most of your mana, if not all, tied up. That's the main reason I wasn't compelled to follow the same gameplan but leave it out. If you want a zombie token plan and you're committed to madness, Under the Floorboards is better. It can be played EOT leaving mana open to respond to opponents and it'll gain you life. That will turn your game around and stabilize.
I think the idea/strategy of the deck is a good one. I don't think Tides is good enough to be worth adding a 2nd or a 3rd color.
Maybe I'm not articulating the quality of the card enough. It is a strong alternate win condition with zero opportunity cost because it's a land that you can still use to cast your spells. Just it's presence on the field as a land could make your opponent slip up rethinking their line of play. Even something as simple as leaving mana up for removal for it if you were to flip it can create a tempo advantage in your favor that, if capitalized upon, can solidify the game in your favor.
Yes, us older players still use those terms. I think they're pretty common. Pacify also works. Although, those cards seldom see play anymore.
Yes, with Tides it does suck about them coming into play tapped. So much so that it may be beneficial to pick up three more copies of Brain to actually test it fully. I only had one and tried it in the original, we both know it's only good if you drop it t2. Of those times where I did drop it t2 I usually found myself in positions where I would rather play a different spell. Now, as I said that was in a completely different version of the deck where many of the card choices were fluid. Now that I have a good understanding of what the strategy needs to work it may be better.