I think the deck needs you to pick one of the three and focus on it, but then introduce a small element of a second strategy as your backup plan.
1. With the first option you drop the Husks, leave in the Cutthroats... not sure what to toss in, but you're not worried about swinging, you're just worried about whittling them down with triggers. Maybe Defiant Bloodlord?
2. With the sacrifice option you really want to maximize it, which means you don't need to worry about allies; Zulaport doesn't need allies, nor does Husk. That means Pious Evangel//Wayward Disciple can join in on the fun. Aside from that this build screams tokens, so maybe Secure the Wastes?
3. The Aggro option seems like an aggro-ally option, and was pretty much how your earlier builds were going, with Kor Bladewhirl. I think Bloodbond Vampire and Serene Steward are both solid options for this build.
I think all three of these (or whichever combination) are all great routes to go, and each has their strengths and weaknesses. Personally I love the idea of running this as Life Tax with a splash of Sacrifice so I'm going to work on a list that heads in that direction.
When I threw together the list I posted, there were a few things I was thinking the deck needs to be successful.
1. The deck definitely needs a high creature count. It needs Allies to feed the machine.
2. The deck wants card draw to feed more allies to the machine.
3. Vs weenie agro - their 25-30 creatures are stronger than our 25 to 30. You have March from the Tomb; don't be afraid to blow up the world.
Upon more consideration, I would try to find room for Smothering Abomination in there as a way to get some damage in as well as getting more card draw when I'm using Vampiric Rites.
The big problem nowadays (compared to the good old Rally days) is that Humans are now stronger of a tribe than Allies are, for one they are mono colored and secondly their triggers are more permanent. So in the aggro match ups they are more likely to take a win. To exploit the aggro strategy you'd probably need to go all in on running Drana, Liberator of Malakir to pump your team but that is where budget stopped me.
With rotation I did try to go more the pillow fort drain way but you're too stuck trying to protect your pieces, that you end up sacrificing too much drain triggers to inch out wins. Also, Defiant Bloodlord felt too slow for me when I tried it before, it's more often stuck in your hand than getting you a win.
Secure the Wastes could be an alternative for the Claws though, where Claws was more there to support Kalastria Healer. But do agree that the deck isn't that depending on Ally triggers, so potentially cuts could be made there. I might try it after tinkering with my current list a bit more.
I'm not too sold on the Smothering Abomination though, it helps in the sacrifice part of things but makes you weaker against the aggro that is out there. Chandra loves to put out her Elementals and Abomination just weakens us to her more. I'd rather buy time through blocks than having to sac things to Abomination.
In preparation of some potential games with the deck again tomorrow, I went and made a few adjustments here and there. Not yet entirely happy with the deck as I have it now but changing around the sacrificial aspect of it a bit and reducing the aggro part.
Not sure yet if I want to add one more land as the deck has become more three drop heavy in this form and also while the deck is more black heavy, the island to swamp ratio ended up being fairly equal so we have a fair chance at casting Expedition Envoy turn one.
The deck is certainly a bit on the slower side due to being geared more to a draining deck again, so I might want something to offset that a little bit. I just want to test it like this first in order to see how quickly the drainage happens, as otherwise I'm looking to add Triskaidekaphobia back in as an alt win-con. It would be only a single copy though, as it can also become a lose-con if not careful Defiant Bloodlord could be considered but it just has a too high CMC, it would certainly force the deck to run at least 24 lands and it part feels that you'd probably be taking a win by the time you get it down anyways. Also, as a creature it would be easier to remove compared to Triskaidekaphobia.
Having trouble securing Zulaport Cutthroat. Shop doesn't have stocks for it. Do you have any suggestions? I'm keen on Pious Evangel as a sub but I fear the absence of Zulaport can be detrimental to the deck...
How detrimental it is part depends on how you intend to build your deck, but it's a rather good card to fill in the 2 CMC slot and drains immediately. Pious Evangel isn't a real replacement for it in my opinion, but Evangel is a rather interesting option when it comes to flipping Accursed Witch for example. And with the sacrificial sub theme having both Evangel and Cutthroat can be setting up for quite the drain effects.
As far as securing copies of it, it depends on where you live but you can always look into getting it through online sources. If I can't get it at my LGS or trade it with people there, I tend to look at MagicCardmarket unless I need it in a pinch then I'll probably spend a little bit more to get it at an online store that can get it to me quickly. Outside Europe there are other options like TCGPlayer and such to get cards if you need them. But yeah if you go the full drain route you will want Cutthroats.
My GF and I are looking at getting back into playing some standard, but both being uni students we have a tight budget to stick to ($100 for 2 decks). As a joke for Christmas her mum got us both a MTG booster, and one of the cards I got was Gideon.
My GF likes combo style decks where each card interacts, so I thought to use the Gideon I got to build her an ally deck. I did a little research and came up witht he following deck, that i was hoping to gets oem feedback on for her.
Looks solid. Ultimate Price could be sideboarded to add 1 more Cliffhaven Vampire and 1 Drana's Emissary or work in 2 Bloodbond Vampire. I definitely want Eerie Interlude in my mainboard too, but that';s just me.
If you are planning on using Evolving Wilds, I'd probably go and replace them with Forsaken Sanctuary. It comes into play tapped but Wilds takes a turn as well and Sanctuary provides fixing for the rest of the game. Three Blighted Steppe feels a bit too much, you don't need colorless in that deck so you can do with one less, and add a fourth Sanctuary. Also, twenty land is a little on the low side, you'll want more or less around 22-23.
As far as Altar's Reap goes, personally not a huge fan of it. I'm currently running Vampiric Rites, which draws a card less but does gain you a life, which if you increase the amount of Cliffhaven Vampires can give nice extra triggers. That said, your build is more geared towards an Ally synergy so it's not that necessary. Other then that, you can consider Read the Bones for draw, the life loss isn't a problem for this deck and allows you to draw cards even after a wipe. So maybe go 2 Reaps and 2 Read the Bones to give you options.
I'd probably cut a Serene Steward and maybe also a Kor Bladewhirl, the latter is okay for getting off first strike triggers but if you have one out already any Ally will do. Claws and Gideon will help there already and also a fourth Expedition Envoy can get help you get a trigger. Not to mention that Envoy helps increasing the pace a bit.
You can cut some removal in the main though, I found its best to just focus on the Ally strategy at first and just side in the removal that you need, that way you won't get hurt by having the wrong kind of removal sitting in your hand. Speaking of which, I'd probably take out the Aligned Hedron Network from the side and put in some Transgress the Mind, which is a card most decks running black will have around to disrupt opponents.
Looks good. Its hard to tell what things will be in your meta but I do feel that Planeswalkers are starting to become more prevalent now people got more adjusted to rotation. So I'd suggest swapping Ultimate Price with Ruinous Path, Path is just more effective right now in my opinion.
Seeing you are running Drana, you could consider adding a single Rogue's Passage to the deck to get her through, probably switching it for a Wilds. Also if you have the budget, look into Ally Encampment. It's also better than Wilds and lets you save Drana from removal or just bounce an Envoy so you can recast it for triggers. I'd consider running a full playset of them, in an Ally deck they are better than Sanctuary and Wilds since it comes into play untapped. And seeing Shambling Vent is a tap land as well, this can speed up the deck a bit.
And you could potentially go down a Lantern Scout and add a fourth Emissary, it adds a little bit more evasion to the deck. Lifelink is good but you with Drana you have a chance of pumping up your flyers and get in the damage.
True, but UpsideDownIndividual mentioned in his initial post that he is working with a budget, so Path and Price are better budget options. Not to mention that there is the option of casting it for it's awakening cost after a sweep. Probably won't be happening a lot, but the option is there, and his deck is more geared towards Ally aggro than life gain/drain, so the upside of Anguished is not really an important one for his deck. The real advantage Anguished has is that it's easier to cast than Path.
yeah, but the real disadvantage is it doesn't hit enchantments and artifacts, and it destroys instead of exiles. Ruinous Path is $2 each. Anguished Unmaking is $4. Not a big budget buster.
Also, if he wants ally agro, which i'm not sure he does, he can probably do much better than 2 cmc 1/1s and 3 cmc 2/3s.
To cut cost I can always cut 4x Shambling Vent and add 4x Forsaken Sanctuary saving me $21. Current deck price is $84 (This excludes Gideon as we already own one). Cutting shambling will drop us to 63 if needed. The other option is cut 2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir saving about $19, adding in 1x Drana's Emissary and 1x ... something?
I think Shambling Vent belongs in the deck, but that's the only ETB Tapped land I'd use in the deck. I'd also drop Evolving Wilds too, since they're basically ETB Tapped lands. Also, I liked Vampiric Rites for this deck more than other card draw options. Mostly because it triggers a life gain which triggers a drain.
As far as Shambling Vent goes, you want them because they are just quite useful. They fix, become creatures in a pinch and has lifelink. Now, the deck is already creature heavy so chances of you drawing another creature is high already, but its good after wipes. I'd run more in my deck if I had the budget for it, they definitely beat Forsaken Sanctuary.
So if you want to consider cutting something, I'd lean towards Drana... she is great IF you can get her to trigger reliably. Without ways to ensure that, you can make the budget cut here and bring in other flyers to get in. So you could replace her with an Emissary and a Cliffhaven Vampire. The latter will get a fair amount of triggers in this deck and in multiples he's even better, though personally I rarely want to go up to the full four to keep the curve somewhat down. Even more so because it makes a 'bad' target for March from the Tomb, that card wants 1 and 2-drops to benefit from hitting Kalastria Healer triggers.
If you go that direction then Vampiric Rites makes more sense to run as well, I'd run them instead of Altar's Reap. The reason I'd prefer to add in some RtB for card draw is that I don't want to be completely depending on sacking creatures for my card draw and it allows you to dig that tad bit deeper in case you need an answer, since the deck runs a limited amount of them in the main.
One more land might not hurt too much, I currently run 23 with a few more four drops and I'm considering going up one more as well but haven't gotten to actually going for it just yet. I will say though that Bone Splinters can surprise people quite a bit due to it being only 1 CMC, but it does only hit creatures and that can be issue when up against more controlling decks. And seeing its Sorcery speed you are probably better off with Anguished instead.
As far as sideboard goes, you can consider sticking some more removal there. Ultimate Price if you want to keep the budget low or Ruinous Path/Anguished if you want to spend more. Other cards you could look into is Hallowed Moonlight, as it can stop Collected Company, or just look for a sweeper of your own like Tragic Arrogance.
Looks good to me. Only one minor change maybe in the sideboard; Eerie Interlude can give some interesting interactions but I doubt you'll ever will want to bring in three of them, as being an Ally deck you are less likely to side those out and that leaves you with limited slots to work with. It mainly will probably compete most with March from the Tomb. Ideally you'd probably want a Hallowed Moonlight there, but personally I'd even feel more comfortable with a third Transgress in the side over a third Eerie Interlude
Got in a few casual games with my deck, sadly they were really casual decks so it didn't put the deck truly through its paces but it did give me a little bit of a chance where I might want to tweak the numbers a bit. As far as strategy goes, I'm fairly happy with the current drain route and while it perhaps is lacking a bit in the aggro aspect, that is definitely needed to commit to the drain strategy.
Anyways this is the list I tested with a bit this weekend, which is similar to the last list I posted in this thread.
So there are a few things I am looking into tweaking and hopefully improve the deck a bit more:
I'm probably going down one more Nantuko Husk, the deck already has a few sacrifice outlets and it being an obvious threat its likely to be targeted by removal anyways. To replace it, I'm looking to add an additional land. The deck has a fair amount of four drops and since we have a mana sink it won't hurt too much. I'm probably going to add in a fourth Ally Encampment, though Forsaken Sanctuary would fix our colors better but with it being a more passive deck I don't think I want another tapped land. The only exception being if I can free up some budget for more Shambling Vents.
The other change is to go down an Accursed Witch, she performs decently but is a tad less synergistic with our Allies. Also, having a fourth Cliffhaven Vampire just feels better right now, so we can push the drainage more, so that is something I'll be changing up as well especially since Cliffhaven also counts as an Ally and can do far more over a turn that the Witch could do.
For the sideboard, I'm going to make one minor change, but not entirely sure what I'll be cutting for it. Right now I am considering going down a Duress or an Ultimate Price and replace it with a Triskaidekaphobia for the slightly grindier match ups.
I agree with the concept of keeping the deck focused to one strategy. In this case it's to keep creaters on the board and win by triggers, as opposed to sac or attacking strategies. I thus avoided any of the sacking or the card draw cards. In my opinion, Sea Gate Wreckage is enough card draw in this deck - I did for a long time consider Read the Bones but since we do empty our hand by turn 6 or 7 with this setup, the land does more for us since it's recurring card draw, and few of our cards require them to be kept at hand to be relevant Eerie Interlude beeing the only exception.
Further more, it seems it's sometimes forgotten why we use lifegain in this deck: the only real interactions with life gain are either triggers that benefit from lifegain as in Cliffhaven Vampire and Anguished Unmaking. I have seen some decks in the thread where they push for lifegain but cut down on cards that benefit from it. To get more out of lifegain, I chose to include Serene Steward although I'm on the fence about this card. It's benefit is it's low CMC and ability to buff on of your valuable fliers, taking them out of Languish range.
I'm not sold on Sea Gate Wreckage. 4 mana for a card isn't great. With 23 lands, you're unlikely to have 4 mana and enough mana to cast possibly 2 spells.
Also, it seems like the decks on this thread seem to differentiate decks that include Zulaport Cutthroat as decks that want to sacrifice. I think this card belongs in all of our lists because it is an ally and because it triggers life gains when creatures die. Creatures WILL die. Why not turn lemons to lemonade?
I think Vampiric Rites is the same way. Creatures will die. Why not sac them to get a card draw? You get a life to trigger some more drain, even better! Declaration in Stone does exist. People are playing it. Rites is a perfect, low mana counter.
Finally, why shouldn't these decks also have a sacrifice component as well? I'm not saying full on tokens + Cutthroat + Husk suite, but the deck does need card drawing, so why not Rites? The deck needs allies, why not Cutthroat? Not only would we do well to dodge some sweepers/removal, but all of our lists have some creatures that after they're cast are no use at all. You said yourself you don't plan on attacking, so what good is Expedition Envoy after you cast it? Seems like the perfect card to sac to Rites, get a card, gain a life, trigger life based drain, trigger cutthroat, cutthroat drain and trigger life based drain again.
Sea Gate Wreckage would be more useful in a controlling shell, when you just need extra ways to dig for creatures. Rites does a good enough trick in my opinion while having Read the Bones for when needing to dig while having to keep some creatures on the board. Besides, if I have spare mana, I'm wanting to put it into Essence Depleter as it helps getting those drain triggers going and isn't draw dependent once its on the board.
And there are two kinds of decks, those that rely on sacrificing for triggers and those that sacrifice to get the win through a more aggro strategy. Either way, I do like having some sacrifice outlets in the current build that I'm running. It helps to flip Accursed Witch and let's you avoid exile effects so you can still get triggers. Vampiric Rites and Pious Evangel are my main ways of doing so, with Nantuko Husk being a slight back up. Rites obviously gives the card draw and Evangel can set up a double flip, while Husk can help me sacrifice in a pinch when I don't have mana up.
Token strategy is more efficient if you lean towards an aggro strategy or are able to run something like Westvale Abbey, it doesn't go too well with a dedicated drain strategy since something like Secure the Wastes doesn't give Ally triggers to benefit from and Captain's Claws forces attacks that might make you have to re-equip it a lot.
Expedition Envoy has multiple roles though. A turn one Envoy can punish an opponent whom has no early drops, as well as has the potential to trade up a bit. The main reason is just to get those triggers going and it dying isn't bad, especially if you run main deck March from the Tomb. Nothing more fun than to bring back four Envoys and two Healers for a whole bunch of triggers and drainage.
As far as my deck goes, the upgrades I'm looking to make is to get in more Shambling Vents and bring in maybe some Anguished Unmakings when budget allows it. I did consider Serene Steward in the past as well, as like said it can give buffs to save creatures from certain removal or to make our flyers bigger. Thing is that I want my focus to be on getting drains in, because if an opponent doesn't draw his Languish but has a board state that keeps us from attacking anyways, then Steward would be doing less. I'd run Ondu War Cleric over it, since I can get my life gain and those drain triggers going. Languish might wipe me but Cutthroat punishes for that and the life gained gives some time to rebuild as well.
I'd suggest having some Tainted Remedy in the 75. Personally I think in the mainboard then side it out in g2 and G3.
I figure lifegain hurts this deck a decent bit, but that stops any mainboard lifegain, and they'll probably side out the lifegain for more interaction in the other games since we don't pressure as fast, so we side out the remedys.
Sideboard maybe, but I wouldn't put Tainted Remedy in the main. Game one you want to try to run as optimally as you can and not focus too much on what you might be facing, last thing you want is having dead cards like that in your hand because your opponent doesn't have life gain. I'd rather have a card that at least can do something, so if you are worried about life gain, you can potentially side it in.
Personally I don't see me running it though because of the limited effect the card has, on paper it looks good, but as said if they have no life gain the card does nothing for us either.
Which brings me to Triskaidekaphobia, it's a good card but with the amount of draining this deck wants to do, it can be easy to get caught out by it yourself. Also in most cases you are going to drain right past 13 life in most cases anyways, but I'd probably side in a card like this instead if an opponent runs a bit of life gain. Since its a good alternative win-condition and the life gain gives us more chances to set the opponent up for being on 13 life.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You've ultimately got three styles of cards in this build and they don't synergize as well as the deck needs them to:
1. Cards that want to stay on the table
Cliffhaven Vampire
Drana's Emissary
Kalastria Healer
Accursed Witch
Triskaidekaphobia
Eerie Interlude
2. Cards that want sacrifices
Zulaport Cutthroat
Nantuko Husk
Accursed Witch
Altar's Reap
Vampiric Rites
3. Cards that want you to attack
Lantern Scout
Captain's Claws
I think the deck needs you to pick one of the three and focus on it, but then introduce a small element of a second strategy as your backup plan.
1. With the first option you drop the Husks, leave in the Cutthroats... not sure what to toss in, but you're not worried about swinging, you're just worried about whittling them down with triggers. Maybe Defiant Bloodlord?
2. With the sacrifice option you really want to maximize it, which means you don't need to worry about allies; Zulaport doesn't need allies, nor does Husk. That means Pious Evangel//Wayward Disciple can join in on the fun. Aside from that this build screams tokens, so maybe Secure the Wastes?
3. The Aggro option seems like an aggro-ally option, and was pretty much how your earlier builds were going, with Kor Bladewhirl. I think Bloodbond Vampire and Serene Steward are both solid options for this build.
I think all three of these (or whichever combination) are all great routes to go, and each has their strengths and weaknesses. Personally I love the idea of running this as Life Tax with a splash of Sacrifice so I'm going to work on a list that heads in that direction.
1. The deck definitely needs a high creature count. It needs Allies to feed the machine.
2. The deck wants card draw to feed more allies to the machine.
3. Vs weenie agro - their 25-30 creatures are stronger than our 25 to 30. You have March from the Tomb; don't be afraid to blow up the world.
Upon more consideration, I would try to find room for Smothering Abomination in there as a way to get some damage in as well as getting more card draw when I'm using Vampiric Rites.
With rotation I did try to go more the pillow fort drain way but you're too stuck trying to protect your pieces, that you end up sacrificing too much drain triggers to inch out wins. Also, Defiant Bloodlord felt too slow for me when I tried it before, it's more often stuck in your hand than getting you a win.
Secure the Wastes could be an alternative for the Claws though, where Claws was more there to support Kalastria Healer. But do agree that the deck isn't that depending on Ally triggers, so potentially cuts could be made there. I might try it after tinkering with my current list a bit more.
I'm not too sold on the Smothering Abomination though, it helps in the sacrifice part of things but makes you weaker against the aggro that is out there. Chandra loves to put out her Elementals and Abomination just weakens us to her more. I'd rather buy time through blocks than having to sac things to Abomination.
Either way, currently looking to make the next few changes to the list I'm running:
-2 Altar's Reap
-2 Lantern Scout
+2 Read the Bones
+2 Pious Evangel
4x Accursed Witch
3x Cliffhaven Vampire
3x Drana's Emissary
2x Essence Depleter
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Kalastria Healer
3x Nantuko Husk
3x Pious Evangel
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Sorcery (5)
2x Read the Bones
2x Ruinous Path
1x Tragic Arrogance
2x Vampiric Rites
Land (23)
3x Ally Encampment
1x Blighted Steppe
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Forsaken Sanctuary
5x Plains
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Shambling Vent
5x Swamp
1x Warped Landscape
1x Angelic Purge
1x Declaration in Stone
3x Duress
1x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Hallowed Moonlight
1x March from the Tomb
1x Stasis Snare
1x Tragic Arrogance
2x Transgress the Mind
2x Ultimate Price
The deck is certainly a bit on the slower side due to being geared more to a draining deck again, so I might want something to offset that a little bit. I just want to test it like this first in order to see how quickly the drainage happens, as otherwise I'm looking to add Triskaidekaphobia back in as an alt win-con. It would be only a single copy though, as it can also become a lose-con if not careful Defiant Bloodlord could be considered but it just has a too high CMC, it would certainly force the deck to run at least 24 lands and it part feels that you'd probably be taking a win by the time you get it down anyways. Also, as a creature it would be easier to remove compared to Triskaidekaphobia.
Standard: Larkblue's Competitive Mono Red Aggro
As far as securing copies of it, it depends on where you live but you can always look into getting it through online sources. If I can't get it at my LGS or trade it with people there, I tend to look at MagicCardmarket unless I need it in a pinch then I'll probably spend a little bit more to get it at an online store that can get it to me quickly. Outside Europe there are other options like TCGPlayer and such to get cards if you need them. But yeah if you go the full drain route you will want Cutthroats.
My GF and I are looking at getting back into playing some standard, but both being uni students we have a tight budget to stick to ($100 for 2 decks). As a joke for Christmas her mum got us both a MTG booster, and one of the cards I got was Gideon.
My GF likes combo style decks where each card interacts, so I thought to use the Gideon I got to build her an ally deck. I did a little research and came up witht he following deck, that i was hoping to gets oem feedback on for her.
2x Cliffhaven Vampire
2x Drana's Emissary
3x Expedition Envoy
4x Kalastria Healer
3x Kor Bladewhirl
4x Lantern Scout
3x Serene Steward
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Sorcery (6)
4x Bone Splinters
2x March from the Tomb
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Instant (6)
4x Altar's Reap
2x Ultimate Price
Artifact (2)
2x Captain's Claws
Land (20)
3x Blighted Steppe
4x Caves of Koilos
3x Evolving Wilds
3x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
3x Swamp
2x Aligned Hedron Network
2x Bloodbond Vampire
3x Duress
3x Eerie Interlude
2x Felidar Cub
3x Ruinous Path
Thanks for your time!
Standard: Larkblue's Competitive Mono Red Aggro
As far as Altar's Reap goes, personally not a huge fan of it. I'm currently running Vampiric Rites, which draws a card less but does gain you a life, which if you increase the amount of Cliffhaven Vampires can give nice extra triggers. That said, your build is more geared towards an Ally synergy so it's not that necessary. Other then that, you can consider Read the Bones for draw, the life loss isn't a problem for this deck and allows you to draw cards even after a wipe. So maybe go 2 Reaps and 2 Read the Bones to give you options.
I'd probably cut a Serene Steward and maybe also a Kor Bladewhirl, the latter is okay for getting off first strike triggers but if you have one out already any Ally will do. Claws and Gideon will help there already and also a fourth Expedition Envoy can get help you get a trigger. Not to mention that Envoy helps increasing the pace a bit.
You can cut some removal in the main though, I found its best to just focus on the Ally strategy at first and just side in the removal that you need, that way you won't get hurt by having the wrong kind of removal sitting in your hand. Speaking of which, I'd probably take out the Aligned Hedron Network from the side and put in some Transgress the Mind, which is a card most decks running black will have around to disrupt opponents.
Thanks for the feedback!
How does this look now?
2x Cliffhaven Vampire
2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3x Drana's Emissary
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Kalastria Healer
3x Kor Bladewhirl
3x Lantern Scout
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Instant (4)
2x Altar's Reap
2x Ultimate Price
Artifact (2)
2x Captain's Claws
2x Bone Splinters
2x March from the Tomb
2x Read the Bones
Planeswalker (1)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Land (22)
2x Blighted Steppe
4x Caves of Koilos
3x Evolving Wilds
2x Forsaken Sanctuary
4x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
3x Swamp
2x Bloodbond Vampire
3x Duress
3x Eerie Interlude
2x Felidar Cub
3x Ruinous Path
2x Transgress the Mind
Seeing you are running Drana, you could consider adding a single Rogue's Passage to the deck to get her through, probably switching it for a Wilds. Also if you have the budget, look into Ally Encampment. It's also better than Wilds and lets you save Drana from removal or just bounce an Envoy so you can recast it for triggers. I'd consider running a full playset of them, in an Ally deck they are better than Sanctuary and Wilds since it comes into play untapped. And seeing Shambling Vent is a tap land as well, this can speed up the deck a bit.
And you could potentially go down a Lantern Scout and add a fourth Emissary, it adds a little bit more evasion to the deck. Lifelink is good but you with Drana you have a chance of pumping up your flyers and get in the damage.
Also, if he wants ally agro, which i'm not sure he does, he can probably do much better than 2 cmc 1/1s and 3 cmc 2/3s.
This is how it now stands. i am missing 2 SB cards, any thoughts on what should be added?
Should I drop 2x Bone Splinters to add 1x Anguished Unmaking and 1x Insert Land card here ?
2x Cliffhaven Vampire
2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3x Drana's Emissary
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Kalastria Healer
3x Kor Bladewhirl
3x Lantern Scout
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Instant (4)
2x Altar's Reap
2x Anguished Unmaking
Artifact (2)
2x Captain's Claws
2x Bone Splinters
2x March from the Tomb
2x Read the Bones
Planeswalker (1)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Land (22)
4x Ally Encampment
1x Blighted Steppe
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Evolving Wilds
4x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
3x Swamp
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Bloodbond Vampire
3x Duress
3x Eerie Interlude
2x Felidar Cub
2x Transgress the Mind
To cut cost I can always cut 4x Shambling Vent and add 4x Forsaken Sanctuary saving me $21. Current deck price is $84 (This excludes Gideon as we already own one). Cutting shambling will drop us to 63 if needed. The other option is cut 2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir saving about $19, adding in 1x Drana's Emissary and 1x ... something?
Thanks for the help so far!
As far as Shambling Vent goes, you want them because they are just quite useful. They fix, become creatures in a pinch and has lifelink. Now, the deck is already creature heavy so chances of you drawing another creature is high already, but its good after wipes. I'd run more in my deck if I had the budget for it, they definitely beat Forsaken Sanctuary.
So if you want to consider cutting something, I'd lean towards Drana... she is great IF you can get her to trigger reliably. Without ways to ensure that, you can make the budget cut here and bring in other flyers to get in. So you could replace her with an Emissary and a Cliffhaven Vampire. The latter will get a fair amount of triggers in this deck and in multiples he's even better, though personally I rarely want to go up to the full four to keep the curve somewhat down. Even more so because it makes a 'bad' target for March from the Tomb, that card wants 1 and 2-drops to benefit from hitting Kalastria Healer triggers.
If you go that direction then Vampiric Rites makes more sense to run as well, I'd run them instead of Altar's Reap. The reason I'd prefer to add in some RtB for card draw is that I don't want to be completely depending on sacking creatures for my card draw and it allows you to dig that tad bit deeper in case you need an answer, since the deck runs a limited amount of them in the main.
One more land might not hurt too much, I currently run 23 with a few more four drops and I'm considering going up one more as well but haven't gotten to actually going for it just yet. I will say though that Bone Splinters can surprise people quite a bit due to it being only 1 CMC, but it does only hit creatures and that can be issue when up against more controlling decks. And seeing its Sorcery speed you are probably better off with Anguished instead.
As far as sideboard goes, you can consider sticking some more removal there. Ultimate Price if you want to keep the budget low or Ruinous Path/Anguished if you want to spend more. Other cards you could look into is Hallowed Moonlight, as it can stop Collected Company, or just look for a sweeper of your own like Tragic Arrogance.
Hoping to order it in a day or two from a local store, surprise my GF with it before next game day
2x Cliffhaven Vampire
2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3x Drana's Emissary
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Kalastria Healer
3x Kor Bladewhirl
3x Lantern Scout
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Sorcery (4)
2x March from the Tomb
2x Read the Bones
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Instant (3)
2x Anguished Unmaking
1x Ultimate Price
Enchantment (2)
2x Vampiric Rites
Artifact (2)
2x Captain's Claws
Land (23)
4x Ally Encampment
1x Blighted Steppe
4x Caves of Koilos
5x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
5x Swamp
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Bloodbond Vampire
3x Duress
3x Eerie Interlude
2x Felidar Cub
2x Ruinous Path
2x Transgress the Mind
Anyways this is the list I tested with a bit this weekend, which is similar to the last list I posted in this thread.
4x Accursed Witch
3x Cliffhaven Vampire
3x Drana's Emissary
2x Essence Depleter
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Kalastria Healer
3x Nantuko Husk
3x Pious Evangel
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Sorcery (5)
2x Read the Bones
2x Ruinous Path
1x Tragic Arrogance
2x Vampiric Rites
Land (23)
3x Ally Encampment
1x Blighted Steppe
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Forsaken Sanctuary
5x Plains
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Shambling Vent
5x Swamp
1x Warped Landscape
1x Angelic Purge
1x Declaration in Stone
3x Duress
1x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Hallowed Moonlight
1x March from the Tomb
1x Stasis Snare
1x Tragic Arrogance
2x Transgress the Mind
2x Ultimate Price
I'm probably going down one more Nantuko Husk, the deck already has a few sacrifice outlets and it being an obvious threat its likely to be targeted by removal anyways. To replace it, I'm looking to add an additional land. The deck has a fair amount of four drops and since we have a mana sink it won't hurt too much. I'm probably going to add in a fourth Ally Encampment, though Forsaken Sanctuary would fix our colors better but with it being a more passive deck I don't think I want another tapped land. The only exception being if I can free up some budget for more Shambling Vents.
The other change is to go down an Accursed Witch, she performs decently but is a tad less synergistic with our Allies. Also, having a fourth Cliffhaven Vampire just feels better right now, so we can push the drainage more, so that is something I'll be changing up as well especially since Cliffhaven also counts as an Ally and can do far more over a turn that the Witch could do.
For the sideboard, I'm going to make one minor change, but not entirely sure what I'll be cutting for it. Right now I am considering going down a Duress or an Ultimate Price and replace it with a Triskaidekaphobia for the slightly grindier match ups.
I agree with the concept of keeping the deck focused to one strategy. In this case it's to keep creaters on the board and win by triggers, as opposed to sac or attacking strategies. I thus avoided any of the sacking or the card draw cards. In my opinion, Sea Gate Wreckage is enough card draw in this deck - I did for a long time consider Read the Bones but since we do empty our hand by turn 6 or 7 with this setup, the land does more for us since it's recurring card draw, and few of our cards require them to be kept at hand to be relevant Eerie Interlude beeing the only exception.
Further more, it seems it's sometimes forgotten why we use lifegain in this deck: the only real interactions with life gain are either triggers that benefit from lifegain as in Cliffhaven Vampire and Anguished Unmaking. I have seen some decks in the thread where they push for lifegain but cut down on cards that benefit from it. To get more out of lifegain, I chose to include Serene Steward although I'm on the fence about this card. It's benefit is it's low CMC and ability to buff on of your valuable fliers, taking them out of Languish range.
2 March from the Tomb
4 Ondu War Cleric
4 Cliffhaven Vampire
4 Drana's Emissary
3 Vampire Envoy
3 Eerie Interlude
4 Anguished Unmaking
4 Shambling Vent
4 Ally Encampment
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Swamp
5 Plains
2 Ultimate Price
4 Expedition Envoy
3 Serene Steward
Also, it seems like the decks on this thread seem to differentiate decks that include Zulaport Cutthroat as decks that want to sacrifice. I think this card belongs in all of our lists because it is an ally and because it triggers life gains when creatures die. Creatures WILL die. Why not turn lemons to lemonade?
I think Vampiric Rites is the same way. Creatures will die. Why not sac them to get a card draw? You get a life to trigger some more drain, even better! Declaration in Stone does exist. People are playing it. Rites is a perfect, low mana counter.
Finally, why shouldn't these decks also have a sacrifice component as well? I'm not saying full on tokens + Cutthroat + Husk suite, but the deck does need card drawing, so why not Rites? The deck needs allies, why not Cutthroat? Not only would we do well to dodge some sweepers/removal, but all of our lists have some creatures that after they're cast are no use at all. You said yourself you don't plan on attacking, so what good is Expedition Envoy after you cast it? Seems like the perfect card to sac to Rites, get a card, gain a life, trigger life based drain, trigger cutthroat, cutthroat drain and trigger life based drain again.
And there are two kinds of decks, those that rely on sacrificing for triggers and those that sacrifice to get the win through a more aggro strategy. Either way, I do like having some sacrifice outlets in the current build that I'm running. It helps to flip Accursed Witch and let's you avoid exile effects so you can still get triggers. Vampiric Rites and Pious Evangel are my main ways of doing so, with Nantuko Husk being a slight back up. Rites obviously gives the card draw and Evangel can set up a double flip, while Husk can help me sacrifice in a pinch when I don't have mana up.
Token strategy is more efficient if you lean towards an aggro strategy or are able to run something like Westvale Abbey, it doesn't go too well with a dedicated drain strategy since something like Secure the Wastes doesn't give Ally triggers to benefit from and Captain's Claws forces attacks that might make you have to re-equip it a lot.
Expedition Envoy has multiple roles though. A turn one Envoy can punish an opponent whom has no early drops, as well as has the potential to trade up a bit. The main reason is just to get those triggers going and it dying isn't bad, especially if you run main deck March from the Tomb. Nothing more fun than to bring back four Envoys and two Healers for a whole bunch of triggers and drainage.
As far as my deck goes, the upgrades I'm looking to make is to get in more Shambling Vents and bring in maybe some Anguished Unmakings when budget allows it. I did consider Serene Steward in the past as well, as like said it can give buffs to save creatures from certain removal or to make our flyers bigger. Thing is that I want my focus to be on getting drains in, because if an opponent doesn't draw his Languish but has a board state that keeps us from attacking anyways, then Steward would be doing less. I'd run Ondu War Cleric over it, since I can get my life gain and those drain triggers going. Languish might wipe me but Cutthroat punishes for that and the life gained gives some time to rebuild as well.
I figure lifegain hurts this deck a decent bit, but that stops any mainboard lifegain, and they'll probably side out the lifegain for more interaction in the other games since we don't pressure as fast, so we side out the remedys.
Also, triskedecaphobia is great in this deck.
Personally I don't see me running it though because of the limited effect the card has, on paper it looks good, but as said if they have no life gain the card does nothing for us either.
Which brings me to Triskaidekaphobia, it's a good card but with the amount of draining this deck wants to do, it can be easy to get caught out by it yourself. Also in most cases you are going to drain right past 13 life in most cases anyways, but I'd probably side in a card like this instead if an opponent runs a bit of life gain. Since its a good alternative win-condition and the life gain gives us more chances to set the opponent up for being on 13 life.