As like with many, it’s time to look at my standard deck and update it to be legal for after the rotation that happens soon. For my BW Life Drain deck the main changes ended up having to be made in the removal suit of the deck, but the biggest loss is going to be the rotation of Rally the Ancestors. So it was time to either turn the deck into a Modern build or see what updates I could do to keep it standard legal.
Despite losing out on several cards I ended up not adding that many new cards from SOI, though there was one card spoiled in the duel decks that felt like a good replacement for my Rally strategy: Eerie Interlude. It can help me defensively and offensively, so yeah, that ended up being the main card to transition the deck into.
I decided to keep the required updates to the removal section as budget as can be, simply because the newly printed removal spells are going to be up there in price for the moment, so am waiting for those to go down slightly once cards become more available.
I was looking at a deck very similar to this, and though my list wasnt budget, the deck itself is still pretty cheap which is nice.
I personally dont really like the Nantuko Husk or Eldrazi Displacer myself as neither are the Allys, and I feel like you dont really want to sac your own guys even to trigger Zulaport Cutthroat, I use him as more of a deterrent to removal.
Finally, I dont know about Duress in here. It could be good for getting rid of removal or that certain spell, but having only two and the rest of your discard SB seems like it wont really be seen enough to be in MB.
I am also worried about Retreat to Emeria. It seems like a worse play than your 4-drop vamp, and if you play it on land 4 or 5, you may not see that many more lands to get its bonus. If it was a 2-drop or 3-drop maybe. This may not be in budget, but what about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? If not him, maybe add in a couple Always Watching.
Basically I see this deck as more of a sit there and do your thing deck, not as much of a swing in deck. I put a few tricks in there that give you bigger butts, and lifegain which will cause triggers. The lands may be a bit greedy, but you can change the Ally Encampment, Blighted Steppe, and Blighted Fen as needed. I definitely like 4 Shambling Vents even though they're 5$ just because extra dudes, more lifegain, blocks on empty field, and dual lands.
The tricks in this are great IMO, 3 of the bounce everyone, which can do some pretty decent damage as well as saving your guys. Tandem Tactics I feel is great in this deck as it gives you combat tricks for 2 guys at once, can play defense against a Languish or using to block and live or burn, and it gives you life, which causes triggers.
Read the Bones and Sea Gate Wreckage I feel are both musts just because your deck dies quick without card draw. If you can keep drawing, you keep getting triggers to kill them, you keep getting blockers and removal, and everything just comes together.
For creatures, I moved the 1 drop to the SB because just having 4 isnt enough to get him out consistently on T1, plus he just is a vanilla guy to die and cause triggers. Instead I put in an extra 2-drop and a few 3-drops. Drana's Emissary does some work, can kill on her own (super slowly) keeps you alive, and causes triggers. Plus she kinda has to be answered, which will cause more triggers. Vampire Envoy and Ondu War Cleric are only 2-ofs due to space, but they work great together, gain you life and can block some.
Again, the playstyle I see this deck using is being fairly conservative with its creatures and letting the triggers do the work, only swinging when profitable or for the kill. Use Immolating Glare as your primary removal against attackers and save the Anguished Unmaking as the utility removal for PW, enchants, fatties. Keep your tricks up for mostly defense and keeping your guys alive. Keep drawing cards when you have extra mana or nothing else to do so you can keep those triggers. If you have extra mana on the board, dont be afraid to trade with your Shambling Vent as a blocker, it'll give you life causing triggers, and keep your guys alive.
Hoped that helped, let me know if any are not fitting the budget requirement and I'll help look for others. Also, remember that right after rotation, aggro runs rampant, so you'll want a strong Game 1 vs them.
When I ran Drana's Emissary before I was always a bit disappointed in it, though that was probably more so because it was simply one of the bigger 'threats' in the deck so often drew removal before it would do anything. So ended up cutting it at the time just so I could do things with the mana that would do more for me. Displacer is something I haven't tried before yet, so hard to judge that one, but Nantuko Husk always did fairly well for me as a sacrifice outlet to push through the last bit of damage needed. Duress can probably be cut now, as I mainly had it in there to protect Drana at the time but I just didn't have enough copies to run to make her effective. Retreat to Emeria is another potential cut, as indeed it takes time to get it going but was just looking for additional ways to get ally triggers going.
As far as strategy goes, I am in general a conservative player so have no issues with that, though its something I am trying to change with a few other decks,
That said, looking at the list I can see things to help improving my deck into something more aggressive with the same base strategy. Though Shambling Vent and Anguished Unmaking are currently out of budget range, especially playsets of them. Also, for budget reasons I would lower the amount of Sea Gate Wreckage to maybe one or two, it saves a little money and secondly not having Vents means I need the colored mana more. I do have enough Ally Encampments to make up for it though, can run four of those.
As far as the rest goes, out of personal preference I'd probably run Touch of Moonglove over Coat with Venom, both give deathtouch and the little life loss has been good for me in the past.
I understand your trouble with Drana's Emissary, she was one of my favorite cards during spoilers, but I had the same issue. Also understand the budget concerns on the other cards, but I have a thought that Anguished Unmaking may drop some eventually, that life loss is harsh for most decks.
Unfortunately with WB you dont have too much for hard protection, so it definitely matters what deck you're going up against, but one of the white 1-drop instants "target creature gains protection from x" may work.
As you said in the OP, if you want a more aggressive route, I would definitely try for Captain's Claws. An allied deck I played yesterday was using Allied Reinforcements, to a decent effect, but was more aggressive based, and without good draws he couldnt keep up (tho I was aggro).
With Touch of the Moonglove, I do like that card, I was just trying to get your guys a bit bigger butts from Coat with Venom. Not really sure which would be more relevant for this deck.
Having playtested my two new decks against a similar deck yesterday, I would say that a more aggro strategy is not the way to go. I definitely think this is more of a pillowfort type deck with a bit of proactive control at heart. Thats really the only way it beat either of the two I was playtesting it against, just by sitting there and not swinging and hitting those triggers. Having said that, you definitely need a way to protect your engine, and unfortunately there isnt that much of that currently. If your guys keep dying, you may want to try a few things like Macabre Waltz and other GY recursion. Gravepurge I'm iffy about because its really slow having to draw them again. March from the Tomb I didnt like at first, but the deck I played yesterday had decent success with it (2x Drana + Zulaport returned on T5 hurt lol). I also think you may want to look into the discard option again even though I said otherwise at first. IF you can mainboard a playset of both Transgress the Mind and Duress. Perhaps run a lower creature count slightly and more draw/discard.
Which was why I was thinking of running Eerie Interlude, as either you can clear their side for swinging in for lethal, bounce my allies for a bunch of triggers or even block with my creatures and bounce them in response to both save the creatures and gain triggers. However, the big flaw with that does tend to be the requirement to leave up mana in order to do so and not sure if this deck wants that. So might run two Eerie's and drop Duress and Transgress down to three each,
As far as graveyard recursion goes, even though it was more because of running Rally, I enjoyed running Corpse Churn a lot in but does seem that Macabre Waltz might be better post rotation.
The reason I opted for Touch of Moonglove over coat was that I wasn't too worried about losing a creature, sure it affects the decks engine a bit, but if you can trade against a bigger threat its no harm and often Zulaport Cutthroat triggers for it as well.
Also, as an additional win-con... I am considering to see about getting one or two Westvale Abbeys... most cases it would be a mere colorless land, but being a pillow fort it could lead to us sacrificing the board in order to gain triggers and then have the demon to swing in. Not sure how viable this might be, but does provide an additional threat that doesn't affect the engine itself.
And I might consider playing around with one or two of the Ondu War Clerics you mentioned. Seeing the deck often won't make much use of the Zulaport Cutthroats and Kalastria Healers, might as well have the Clerics tap them to gain bit more life and potentially trigger Cliffhaven Vampire more. Just not sure where to fit them in yet.
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim instead of nantuko husk is nice. Can sack to trigger Zulaport, but also gains life on it's own triggering Cliffhaven vampire a second time.
I like the Ondu War Cleric's. Had them in my list. I haven't tried it yet, but being able to trigger cliffhaven at their end step every turn is nice. Vampire Envoy is nice too as a blocker and combo piece with cliffhaven, but may not be worth a slot.
There are quite a few new cards at common I could see fitting nicely as well.
Oops, read over that part it seems, though Healer/Cutthroat aren't that big to swing with anyways, still might feel like an interesting way to blink my blockers. It prevents having to take extra damage, saves my creatures and gets a bunch of triggers.
As far as looking at the new spoilers, I didn't see too much that would add that much more to it. Initially Tenacity seemed like a good trick to run, but part of me feels it might just sit too high on the curve to be actually good enough. Other then that there is a decent combat trick in Grotesque Mutation. I do like Shamble Back against reanimation and graveyard shenanigans, but thats sideboard.
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim instead of nantuko husk is nice. Can sack to trigger Zulaport, but also gains life on it's own triggering Cliffhaven vampire a second time.
I like the Ondu War Cleric's. Had them in my list. I haven't tried it yet, but being able to trigger cliffhaven at their end step every turn is nice. Vampire Envoy is nice too as a blocker and combo piece with cliffhaven, but may not be worth a slot.
Ayli might be a good alternative, though I used Husk since it was just more budget. I might consider her now though will have to see how well she'd actually would fit in, as despite how good she can be, she might be taking up a slot needed otherwise.
So first manabase wise, I did decide to go with Westvale Abbey in the deck and since its another colorless source, I cut down the Blighted Fen to a single copy.
I decided to add the Eerie Interludes after all, cutting a copy of Duress and Transgress the Mind just so there is slightly less chance of them being a dud in our hand. And to add a few Ondu War Clerics I brought down March of the Tomb a copy and went down to 22 land, since I wasn't sure about cutting into the actual removal yet.
The extra copies of Duress and Transgress went into the sideboard, so I can adjust the numbers depending on match ups. Additional removal was added in the form of Surge of Righteousness for when facing red/black and Touch of Moonglove. In case we are dealing with any graveyard manipulations, we can bring in the Shamble Backs which I might raise up to three copies. And since we have a couple of 1 power creatures Behind the Scenes might be a good way to sneak in some damage.
I think that currently, with all the advice offered here so far, I'd probably would only run the Claws as a means of token generation. Oath can have it's benefits as well, just Claws ends up being reusable. That said, I am focusing more on the draining life aspect of the deck, so fetching equipment and things like Masterwork just stray too far from that plan.
Witness the End does seem interesting, especially now with Delirium becoming something that might warrant attention. Though it is a four drop and that might hurt too much main deck, but could see potentially bringing it into the sideboard. Will try it there, probably one copy for now to replace the Transgress I've listed there.
Quick Edit : I decided to splurge a little this month, seeing I already planned on spending enough on preordering cards for my EDH deck, so I have added a single copy of Shambling Vent to the list. Obviously more would be better, but I stuck to one so I can move it into an EDH deck of mine once it eventually rotates out.
Decided to make some slight tweaks to the removal suite of the deck, as I want to run some Declaration in Stone in the deck. So, I went and dropped down the Grasp of Darkness down to just two, since it is double black… and opted to take out a Transgress the Mind as well. I did consider taking out a Ruinous Path instead, but I decided for now to keep it in despite being higher on curve, mainly to deal with the potential threat that Arlinn might be offering.
Probably will add a Declaration to the sideboard as well, chances are that I’ll take out the Duress or one of the Captain's Claws.
What is everyone's thought on using this as a budget highly efficient means of control/quasi removal? Visions of Brutality ?
I think for this type of deck it's perfect. It works on any creature, it's only 1 black and 1 colorless which makes it very flexible. More than likely, early on you will have more life than your opponent after 3 or 4 turns with this deck. Using this on a turn 4 big rare would be perfect if you wanted to force an opponent to whittle their own life away or do absolutely nothing with that creature and waste the mana they used to cast it. Obviously abilities aren't affected, but I think it's at least worth testing out.
Visions could be an interesting option, will have to give it a bit of a try in the deck. It might in the least be a good potential sideboard card to bring in against like the bigger Eldrazi.
Having been able to play the deck a bit last night, I feel that Duress is better off in the sideboard, so am going to move Duress down to two copies in the main and actually up Grasp of Darkness since it proves to be rather relevant. Having a fair bit of creature removal already, I went and cut the Transgress the Mind from the sideboard so I could slot in the extra Duress there.
Also, I took out the two Touch of Moongloves, since I haven't seen the need to board those in, they generally just set me back. So using those free spots I decided to put in Visions of Brutality into the side and see how it will perform in Eldrazi matchups.
Still trying to decide if Dead Weight might be worth considering for this deck.
Updated the decklist in the starter to reflect the deck's current state. Main change, as mentioned before, is the Duress going into the sideboard and a few other cards there got cut for that. Not sure yet if I want to up the number of Declaration in Stone so slotted one of those into the sideboard, along with the copy of Hallowed Moonlight that I had laying around and threw in a Stasis Snare for the time being until I decide what to do with that spot.
And actually had been running 23, mixed that one up a bit as had temporarily upped Ally Encampment to a four of. The number hasn't been too bad but will be lowering the Encampments to three at most and add in some Forsaken Sanctuary when I get them, had hoped to pull some but wasn't that lucky. Though will try to bump the land count to 24 and see how it does there.
While not going back on the decision to move the Duresses for now, I did have to admit that having no one drops can hurt a fair bit when your opponent runs Village Messenger as it takes a fair bit to stabilize against it. So will have to see how that will continue to do the next few times I run the deck.
Did end up taking out the Stasis Snare again, not that it wasn't useful, but just because I wanted to try a different card in the side for a bit by putting a Lantern Scout in there.
One card I'm still on the fence on is Shamble Back, as on one side I feel that the card probably isn't good enough to run but yet the times it comes out it surprises me so much. It tends to aid in flipping Westvale Abbey quite a lot, especially when you have Abbey on the board early on and people trying to keep you off the five necessary creatures.
Yeah pacifism is great, but will be rotating next. I have used it in FNM and it saved my butt against 1 guy, I pacifism'ed 3 Ulamogs in 1 game!!! And I Duressed 2 Ugin's in the same game as well. Needless to say dude was uber pissed.
I guess it all depends on how your deck is built. I have a few more creatures in my deck than most of these ally decks, including 3 or 4 lantern scout which provides a lot of life gain before the opponent has a chance to hit you hard. Typically I have a lot more health in early/mid game than my opponent, although the loss of Sorin, solemn visitor will make it a little harder to keep up that pace I guess where I would recommend using visions of brutality would be if you feel you need to balance out your B/W ratio therefore allowing you to balance your mana better and make for a more consistent mana curve.
But I definitely see what you mean about pacifism being more well rounded.
If you are going to use lantern scout, get 1 or 2 of the cheaper allies with 2 or 3 power in there. Lantern scout can be a game changer if you get enough creatures out early, especially if you get some flyers out.
With the current build if I were to skew things more towards black, the deck does become a bit more inconsistent, since I run both double white and double black cards. Currently I haven't been having too much trouble to get to both, despite already being a bit black heavy. Also, I did test Visions of Brutality in this deck and more often than not I prefered seeing other removal over it. I'd definitely run Stasis Snare before Visions.
As far as rotation worries go, I think that Duress rotating out the next time would be more of an issue, as it's a vital card against control. Though we just had the current one happen, so that's something I'll concern myself more with in a few months time. Never know what Eldritch Moon and the set after will offer.
If I were to include more cheaper allies, I'd have to go more an aggro build much like mono white or B/W humans currently is doing right now. That would likely be more effective but it's not what I'm aiming to do with this deck. Instead I'm trying to let it do it's own thing and have the option to run a slightly more aggro third game if I need to up the pace. It's where Captain's Claws and Behind the Scenes comes in squeezing out 1/1 ally tokens with skulk surprised a few people here so far. Lantern Scout is there to help potential racing, but I'm currently not relying on it since it would force me to run far more of them in the side.
Speaking of aggro builds, I am likely going to take out the Macabre Waltz from the side, as don't feel I'll be siding it in that often after all. I'll be replacing them with Dead Weight, one drop cards can be vital and this can take out an early drop of my opponent effectively enough.
Have you thought about splashing Red in the deck for a more Aggro build?
Back when I was able to drive my Sliver deck to the Top (all Slivers, with 4 Athreos ; finished second in a 30+ players tournament and only because I forgot a trigger), the key to such a deck was just to play with more Slivers, and not trying to protect them, or to control the board. Playing only creatures allowed the deck to come back after a wipe, and to flood aggressive opponents with more creatures than they could handle.
Achieving the same result with Allies is not possible (Allies abilities are active and not passive, so you can't defend with a bunch of first strike + deathtouch dudes), but something can probably be done.
Munda is probably over looked. At first, playing 4 Munda makes no sense because of the legendary rules. But you want one Munda on the battlefield to filter the next ones to the bottom deck and make sure your next draw is another Ally that will fuel Munda again and the rest of the strategy. And 3/4 haste is quite a body.
The Reckless Bushwhacker is probably the most important Red card you can get however :
T1 Expedition Envoy
T2 Kalastria Healer, lose 1 Life and attack for 2
T3 Cliffside Lookout + surge on Reckless Bushwhacker, lose 2 Life and attack for 10 (total of 15 damage by then)
The Firemantle Mage that gives menace to your Allied Squad is worth some consideration too. Probably more than Behind the Scenes, as it's an Ally that feeds the strategy, and a 2/2 body to attack.
Eerie Interlude is probably interesting, but it's quite circumstancial, and unless you have Kalastria Healer in play, it won't do any real good. What would be good is an Ally at instant speed to trigger something during opponent's turn and maybe surprise opponent with first strike blocks. Eldrazi Displacer may do the job, but it's very slow, and not an Ally.
What do you guys think of all these ideas? I will brew my deck for tonight and post results tomorrow.
BTW, playing Munda probably removes the need to play with a draw spell, as you can ensure you draw your Allies and nothing else... Which is all we really need (not drawing lands is card advantage, no?).
So in the box I bought with my trade in's for Zendikar, I picked up 2 gideon, ally of zendikar. What do you think about oath of gideon? I am using it x2 right now.
Been playtesting with little tweaks here and there. Mostly went away from smaller 1 and 2 drops for the bigger impact 3 and 4 drops. Now, my experience so far is that if I don't get lucky with land drops, I don't get enough triggers. I think the best strategy right now that I'm going to test out is more 1 drops, get 2 kalastria healers out, get cliffhaven vampire out, trigger as much as possible with hopes that I get a lantern scout out. 2 kalastria healer with a cliffhaven vampire out, equals some very quick drainage happening. At that point a 1 drop ally will give you 2 points of health while taking 4 from your opponent, not bad for 1 mana. So if you play a lantern scout a turn later and attack with everything, you are looking at a big swing. March from the tomb to get your healers and cliffhaven vampire back the next turn if they die for even more triggers.
Been testing out eerie interlude out with this deck as well. I don't like it as much as march from the tomb. For starters, it doesn't trigger zulaport cutthroat it also only works for creatures you control, meaning you can't get stuff out of the graveyard. Then to make it really not worth my while, if I use it to save attackers, that takes away my lifelink triggers, any counters on creatures, and prevents any damage being done to opponents creatures. Just some thoughts.
In short, this budget deck needs to be geared towards doing the 1 thing really well, that it is made to do...
@ PATBOU
I do appreciate the input though I just feel that splashing red in this build isn't going to be worth it, since it will dilute the deck a fair bit and will make the double white and double black CMC's harder to hit. Not to mention that the lands needed to bring red in will push my own budget a fair bit more right now than I'd like.
Also, I don't intend this to be an aggro build, even if that means lowering winning chances a bit. I just want to take the whole strategy of playing around with Eerie Interlude and life draining triggers, and try to make it run as effective as I can without breaking my bank account too much. It's why I currently only run one Shambling Vent just to save a little money on the build for now.
And sure a card like Eerie Interlude is more circumstantial but that's why I'm not running a full playset either, but it's still a fun card I just wanted to build around.
@ PERHIZZLE
Oath has advantages in that it pumps out two Allies at once and that it makes people wary of Gideon or other Planeswalkers being around. It is an alternative for maybe Captain's Claws in this deck, as it does pretty much guarantees two tokens and triggers. Claws on the other hand does have the option of being more reusable and is not restricted by the legendary rule. Also, the reasons I like Claws more is that I can stick it on one of the fliers and push in a bit more damage as well as getting a token out of it. Though if I want to go more explosive then Oath would be a more interesting choice.
Edit: And do agree that the deck could do with some low drops, so an option is to run Expedition Envoys over the Emissary's. Which will lower the curve a fair bit and make it easier to get triggers or to sneak in some early damage if an opponent doesn't have a one drop. Also makes good targets for March. As far as Eerie Interlude goes, it does have limits for sure, especially when lifelink comes into play.
So there is the option of cutting down on the Eerie Interludes, bringing it to a one-of maybe, even though then cutting it completely would end up being better. It frees up slots to move the Lantern Scouts to the main, though when pushing for more damage and relying a bit more on the lifelink as well, means having more Marches would be preferred as well so we can bring back stuff more reliably.
Despite losing out on several cards I ended up not adding that many new cards from SOI, though there was one card spoiled in the duel decks that felt like a good replacement for my Rally strategy: Eerie Interlude. It can help me defensively and offensively, so yeah, that ended up being the main card to transition the deck into.
I decided to keep the required updates to the removal section as budget as can be, simply because the newly printed removal spells are going to be up there in price for the moment, so am waiting for those to go down slightly once cards become more available.
4x Cliffhaven Vampire
4x Drana's Emissary
4x Kalastria Healer
2x Ondu War Cleric
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Instant (5)
2x Eerie Interlude
3x Grasp of Darkness
Sorcery (14)
2x Declaration in Stone
2x March from the Tomb
4x Read the Bones
3x Ruinous Path
3x Transgress the Mind
4x Ally Encampment
1x Blighted Fen
4x Caves of Koilos
3x Plains
2x Sea Gate Wreckage
1x Shambling Vent
6x Swamp
2x Westvale Abbey
1x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2x Behind the Scenes
2x Captain's Claws
1x Declaration in Stone
3x Duress
1x Hallowed Moonlight
2x Macabre Waltz
2x Shamble Back
1x Lantern Scout
I was looking at a deck very similar to this, and though my list wasnt budget, the deck itself is still pretty cheap which is nice.
I personally dont really like the Nantuko Husk or Eldrazi Displacer myself as neither are the Allys, and I feel like you dont really want to sac your own guys even to trigger Zulaport Cutthroat, I use him as more of a deterrent to removal.
One thing this deck has is good life, so I think you should utilize cards that life loss is normally a drawback for. Have you looked into Read the Bones and Anguished Unmaking at all? I could see a four of both, maybe 3 of for Anguished. That gives you a bit better removal, as well as draw. Perhaps -1 Ultimate Price, -2 Touch of the Moonglove -2 Immolating Glare in favor of +3 Read the Bones +2 Anguished Unmaking.
Finally, I dont know about Duress in here. It could be good for getting rid of removal or that certain spell, but having only two and the rest of your discard SB seems like it wont really be seen enough to be in MB.
I am also worried about Retreat to Emeria. It seems like a worse play than your 4-drop vamp, and if you play it on land 4 or 5, you may not see that many more lands to get its bonus. If it was a 2-drop or 3-drop maybe. This may not be in budget, but what about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? If not him, maybe add in a couple Always Watching.
Here's what I would run based on your shell
2 Ondu War Cleric
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
4 Kalastria Healer
2 Vampire Envoy
4 Drana's Emissary
4 Cliffhaven Vampire
// 7 Removal \\
3 Immolating Glare
4 Anguished Unmaking
// 4 Draw \\
4 Read the Bones
4 Tandem Tactics
3 Eerie Interlude
// 22 Lands \\
1 Blighted Steppe
2 Blighted Fen
2 Ally Encampment
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Shambling Vent
5 Plains
5 Swamp
3 Transgress the Mind
2 Always Watching
3 Coat with Venom
3 Foul-Tongue Shriek
4 Expedition Envoy
Basically I see this deck as more of a sit there and do your thing deck, not as much of a swing in deck. I put a few tricks in there that give you bigger butts, and lifegain which will cause triggers. The lands may be a bit greedy, but you can change the Ally Encampment, Blighted Steppe, and Blighted Fen as needed. I definitely like 4 Shambling Vents even though they're 5$ just because extra dudes, more lifegain, blocks on empty field, and dual lands.
The tricks in this are great IMO, 3 of the bounce everyone, which can do some pretty decent damage as well as saving your guys. Tandem Tactics I feel is great in this deck as it gives you combat tricks for 2 guys at once, can play defense against a Languish or using to block and live or burn, and it gives you life, which causes triggers.
Read the Bones and Sea Gate Wreckage I feel are both musts just because your deck dies quick without card draw. If you can keep drawing, you keep getting triggers to kill them, you keep getting blockers and removal, and everything just comes together.
For creatures, I moved the 1 drop to the SB because just having 4 isnt enough to get him out consistently on T1, plus he just is a vanilla guy to die and cause triggers. Instead I put in an extra 2-drop and a few 3-drops. Drana's Emissary does some work, can kill on her own (super slowly) keeps you alive, and causes triggers. Plus she kinda has to be answered, which will cause more triggers. Vampire Envoy and Ondu War Cleric are only 2-ofs due to space, but they work great together, gain you life and can block some.
Again, the playstyle I see this deck using is being fairly conservative with its creatures and letting the triggers do the work, only swinging when profitable or for the kill. Use Immolating Glare as your primary removal against attackers and save the Anguished Unmaking as the utility removal for PW, enchants, fatties. Keep your tricks up for mostly defense and keeping your guys alive. Keep drawing cards when you have extra mana or nothing else to do so you can keep those triggers. If you have extra mana on the board, dont be afraid to trade with your Shambling Vent as a blocker, it'll give you life causing triggers, and keep your guys alive.
Against Aggro, you should have a decent MB, siding would probably be pretty limited.
Against midrange, I'd probably side in the Coat with Venom, and maybe Transgress the Mind and take out Tandem Tactics and Ondu War Cleric
For Control, I'd probably side in the Expedition Envoy and Transgress the Mind taking out the Immolating Glare and Tandem Tactics
Hoped that helped, let me know if any are not fitting the budget requirement and I'll help look for others. Also, remember that right after rotation, aggro runs rampant, so you'll want a strong Game 1 vs them.
As far as strategy goes, I am in general a conservative player so have no issues with that, though its something I am trying to change with a few other decks,
That said, looking at the list I can see things to help improving my deck into something more aggressive with the same base strategy. Though Shambling Vent and Anguished Unmaking are currently out of budget range, especially playsets of them. Also, for budget reasons I would lower the amount of Sea Gate Wreckage to maybe one or two, it saves a little money and secondly not having Vents means I need the colored mana more. I do have enough Ally Encampments to make up for it though, can run four of those.
As far as the rest goes, out of personal preference I'd probably run Touch of Moonglove over Coat with Venom, both give deathtouch and the little life loss has been good for me in the past.
Unfortunately with WB you dont have too much for hard protection, so it definitely matters what deck you're going up against, but one of the white 1-drop instants "target creature gains protection from x" may work.
As you said in the OP, if you want a more aggressive route, I would definitely try for Captain's Claws. An allied deck I played yesterday was using Allied Reinforcements, to a decent effect, but was more aggressive based, and without good draws he couldnt keep up (tho I was aggro).
With Touch of the Moonglove, I do like that card, I was just trying to get your guys a bit bigger butts from Coat with Venom. Not really sure which would be more relevant for this deck.
Having playtested my two new decks against a similar deck yesterday, I would say that a more aggro strategy is not the way to go. I definitely think this is more of a pillowfort type deck with a bit of proactive control at heart. Thats really the only way it beat either of the two I was playtesting it against, just by sitting there and not swinging and hitting those triggers. Having said that, you definitely need a way to protect your engine, and unfortunately there isnt that much of that currently. If your guys keep dying, you may want to try a few things like Macabre Waltz and other GY recursion. Gravepurge I'm iffy about because its really slow having to draw them again. March from the Tomb I didnt like at first, but the deck I played yesterday had decent success with it (2x Drana + Zulaport returned on T5 hurt lol). I also think you may want to look into the discard option again even though I said otherwise at first. IF you can mainboard a playset of both Transgress the Mind and Duress. Perhaps run a lower creature count slightly and more draw/discard.
4 Kalastria Healer
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
4 Drana's Emissary
4 Cliffhaven Vampire
// 8 Discard \\
4 Duress
4 Transgress the Mind
// 3 Recursion \\
3 March From the Tomb
// 4 Draw \\
4 Read the Bones
3 Grasp of Darkness
3 Ruinous Path
// 23 Lands \\
3 Ally Encampment
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Blighted Fen
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Plains
7 Swamp
7 Stuffs
7 Things
1 Auto-Win Card
As far as graveyard recursion goes, even though it was more because of running Rally, I enjoyed running Corpse Churn a lot in but does seem that Macabre Waltz might be better post rotation.
The reason I opted for Touch of Moonglove over coat was that I wasn't too worried about losing a creature, sure it affects the decks engine a bit, but if you can trade against a bigger threat its no harm and often Zulaport Cutthroat triggers for it as well.
Also, as an additional win-con... I am considering to see about getting one or two Westvale Abbeys... most cases it would be a mere colorless land, but being a pillow fort it could lead to us sacrificing the board in order to gain triggers and then have the demon to swing in. Not sure how viable this might be, but does provide an additional threat that doesn't affect the engine itself.
And I might consider playing around with one or two of the Ondu War Clerics you mentioned. Seeing the deck often won't make much use of the Zulaport Cutthroats and Kalastria Healers, might as well have the Clerics tap them to gain bit more life and potentially trigger Cliffhaven Vampire more. Just not sure where to fit them in yet.
I like the idea of the Westvale Abbey alt wincon.
There are quite a few new cards at common I could see fitting nicely as well.
I like the Ondu War Cleric's. Had them in my list. I haven't tried it yet, but being able to trigger cliffhaven at their end step every turn is nice. Vampire Envoy is nice too as a blocker and combo piece with cliffhaven, but may not be worth a slot.
Oops, read over that part it seems, though Healer/Cutthroat aren't that big to swing with anyways, still might feel like an interesting way to blink my blockers. It prevents having to take extra damage, saves my creatures and gets a bunch of triggers.
As far as looking at the new spoilers, I didn't see too much that would add that much more to it. Initially Tenacity seemed like a good trick to run, but part of me feels it might just sit too high on the curve to be actually good enough. Other then that there is a decent combat trick in Grotesque Mutation. I do like Shamble Back against reanimation and graveyard shenanigans, but thats sideboard.
Ayli might be a good alternative, though I used Husk since it was just more budget. I might consider her now though will have to see how well she'd actually would fit in, as despite how good she can be, she might be taking up a slot needed otherwise.
4x Cliffhaven Vampire
4x Drana's Emissary
4x Kalastria Healer
2x Ondu War Cleric
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Instant (5)
2x Eerie Interlude
3x Grasp of Darkness
Sorcery (15)
3x Duress
2x March from the Tomb
4x Read the Bones
3x Ruinous Path
3x Transgress the Mind
3x Ally Encampment
1x Blighted Fen
4x Caves of Koilos
3x Plains
2x Sea Gate Wreckage
1x Shambling Vent
6x Swamp
2x Westvale Abbey
1x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2x Behind the Scenes
2x Captain's Claws
1x Duress
2x Macabre Waltz
2x Shamble Back
2x Surge of Righteousness
2x Touch of Moonglove
1x Transgress the Mind
I decided to add the Eerie Interludes after all, cutting a copy of Duress and Transgress the Mind just so there is slightly less chance of them being a dud in our hand. And to add a few Ondu War Clerics I brought down March of the Tomb a copy and went down to 22 land, since I wasn't sure about cutting into the actual removal yet.
The extra copies of Duress and Transgress went into the sideboard, so I can adjust the numbers depending on match ups. Additional removal was added in the form of Surge of Righteousness for when facing red/black and Touch of Moonglove. In case we are dealing with any graveyard manipulations, we can bring in the Shamble Backs which I might raise up to three copies. And since we have a couple of 1 power creatures Behind the Scenes might be a good way to sneak in some damage.
Captain's Claws and Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim are currently there to test with, I was considering trying Hanweir Militia Captain but do feel that the Ally tokens are more relevant for me.
Witness the End does seem interesting, especially now with Delirium becoming something that might warrant attention. Though it is a four drop and that might hurt too much main deck, but could see potentially bringing it into the sideboard. Will try it there, probably one copy for now to replace the Transgress I've listed there.
Quick Edit : I decided to splurge a little this month, seeing I already planned on spending enough on preordering cards for my EDH deck, so I have added a single copy of Shambling Vent to the list. Obviously more would be better, but I stuck to one so I can move it into an EDH deck of mine once it eventually rotates out.
Probably will add a Declaration to the sideboard as well, chances are that I’ll take out the Duress or one of the Captain's Claws.
I think for this type of deck it's perfect. It works on any creature, it's only 1 black and 1 colorless which makes it very flexible. More than likely, early on you will have more life than your opponent after 3 or 4 turns with this deck. Using this on a turn 4 big rare would be perfect if you wanted to force an opponent to whittle their own life away or do absolutely nothing with that creature and waste the mana they used to cast it. Obviously abilities aren't affected, but I think it's at least worth testing out.
Also, I took out the two Touch of Moongloves, since I haven't seen the need to board those in, they generally just set me back. So using those free spots I decided to put in Visions of Brutality into the side and see how it will perform in Eldrazi matchups.
Still trying to decide if Dead Weight might be worth considering for this deck.
And actually had been running 23, mixed that one up a bit as had temporarily upped Ally Encampment to a four of. The number hasn't been too bad but will be lowering the Encampments to three at most and add in some Forsaken Sanctuary when I get them, had hoped to pull some but wasn't that lucky. Though will try to bump the land count to 24 and see how it does there.
Did end up taking out the Stasis Snare again, not that it wasn't useful, but just because I wanted to try a different card in the side for a bit by putting a Lantern Scout in there.
One card I'm still on the fence on is Shamble Back, as on one side I feel that the card probably isn't good enough to run but yet the times it comes out it surprises me so much. It tends to aid in flipping Westvale Abbey quite a lot, especially when you have Abbey on the board early on and people trying to keep you off the five necessary creatures.
I guess it all depends on how your deck is built. I have a few more creatures in my deck than most of these ally decks, including 3 or 4 lantern scout which provides a lot of life gain before the opponent has a chance to hit you hard. Typically I have a lot more health in early/mid game than my opponent, although the loss of Sorin, solemn visitor will make it a little harder to keep up that pace I guess where I would recommend using visions of brutality would be if you feel you need to balance out your B/W ratio therefore allowing you to balance your mana better and make for a more consistent mana curve.
But I definitely see what you mean about pacifism being more well rounded.
As far as rotation worries go, I think that Duress rotating out the next time would be more of an issue, as it's a vital card against control. Though we just had the current one happen, so that's something I'll concern myself more with in a few months time. Never know what Eldritch Moon and the set after will offer.
If I were to include more cheaper allies, I'd have to go more an aggro build much like mono white or B/W humans currently is doing right now. That would likely be more effective but it's not what I'm aiming to do with this deck. Instead I'm trying to let it do it's own thing and have the option to run a slightly more aggro third game if I need to up the pace. It's where Captain's Claws and Behind the Scenes comes in squeezing out 1/1 ally tokens with skulk surprised a few people here so far. Lantern Scout is there to help potential racing, but I'm currently not relying on it since it would force me to run far more of them in the side.
Speaking of aggro builds, I am likely going to take out the Macabre Waltz from the side, as don't feel I'll be siding it in that often after all. I'll be replacing them with Dead Weight, one drop cards can be vital and this can take out an early drop of my opponent effectively enough.
Back when I was able to drive my Sliver deck to the Top (all Slivers, with 4 Athreos ; finished second in a 30+ players tournament and only because I forgot a trigger), the key to such a deck was just to play with more Slivers, and not trying to protect them, or to control the board. Playing only creatures allowed the deck to come back after a wipe, and to flood aggressive opponents with more creatures than they could handle.
Achieving the same result with Allies is not possible (Allies abilities are active and not passive, so you can't defend with a bunch of first strike + deathtouch dudes), but something can probably be done.
Munda is probably over looked. At first, playing 4 Munda makes no sense because of the legendary rules. But you want one Munda on the battlefield to filter the next ones to the bottom deck and make sure your next draw is another Ally that will fuel Munda again and the rest of the strategy. And 3/4 haste is quite a body.
The Reckless Bushwhacker is probably the most important Red card you can get however :
T1 Expedition Envoy
T2 Kalastria Healer, lose 1 Life and attack for 2
T3 Cliffside Lookout + surge on Reckless Bushwhacker, lose 2 Life and attack for 10 (total of 15 damage by then)
The Firemantle Mage that gives menace to your Allied Squad is worth some consideration too. Probably more than Behind the Scenes, as it's an Ally that feeds the strategy, and a 2/2 body to attack.
Eerie Interlude is probably interesting, but it's quite circumstancial, and unless you have Kalastria Healer in play, it won't do any real good. What would be good is an Ally at instant speed to trigger something during opponent's turn and maybe surprise opponent with first strike blocks. Eldrazi Displacer may do the job, but it's very slow, and not an Ally.
What do you guys think of all these ideas? I will brew my deck for tonight and post results tomorrow.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Been testing out eerie interlude out with this deck as well. I don't like it as much as march from the tomb. For starters, it doesn't trigger zulaport cutthroat it also only works for creatures you control, meaning you can't get stuff out of the graveyard. Then to make it really not worth my while, if I use it to save attackers, that takes away my lifelink triggers, any counters on creatures, and prevents any damage being done to opponents creatures. Just some thoughts.
In short, this budget deck needs to be geared towards doing the 1 thing really well, that it is made to do...
I do appreciate the input though I just feel that splashing red in this build isn't going to be worth it, since it will dilute the deck a fair bit and will make the double white and double black CMC's harder to hit. Not to mention that the lands needed to bring red in will push my own budget a fair bit more right now than I'd like.
Also, I don't intend this to be an aggro build, even if that means lowering winning chances a bit. I just want to take the whole strategy of playing around with Eerie Interlude and life draining triggers, and try to make it run as effective as I can without breaking my bank account too much. It's why I currently only run one Shambling Vent just to save a little money on the build for now.
And sure a card like Eerie Interlude is more circumstantial but that's why I'm not running a full playset either, but it's still a fun card I just wanted to build around.
@ PERHIZZLE
Oath has advantages in that it pumps out two Allies at once and that it makes people wary of Gideon or other Planeswalkers being around. It is an alternative for maybe Captain's Claws in this deck, as it does pretty much guarantees two tokens and triggers. Claws on the other hand does have the option of being more reusable and is not restricted by the legendary rule. Also, the reasons I like Claws more is that I can stick it on one of the fliers and push in a bit more damage as well as getting a token out of it. Though if I want to go more explosive then Oath would be a more interesting choice.
Edit: And do agree that the deck could do with some low drops, so an option is to run Expedition Envoys over the Emissary's. Which will lower the curve a fair bit and make it easier to get triggers or to sneak in some early damage if an opponent doesn't have a one drop. Also makes good targets for March. As far as Eerie Interlude goes, it does have limits for sure, especially when lifelink comes into play.
So there is the option of cutting down on the Eerie Interludes, bringing it to a one-of maybe, even though then cutting it completely would end up being better. It frees up slots to move the Lantern Scouts to the main, though when pushing for more damage and relying a bit more on the lifelink as well, means having more Marches would be preferred as well so we can bring back stuff more reliably.