Without the Felidar Guardian ban, it's very possible 4c Saheeli competely takes over standard and stops Mardu from even being able to keep pace with it.
Due to cat combo being a screw up (admitted by Wotc), they should do the right thing and axe this card the way they axed Reflector Mage.
Gideon just needs to go, that card and new gideon shouldn't be in the same standard.
I strongly doubt we'll see a Gideon ban. But Felidar needs to go, there is no way WotC wants that deck running around for the next year or however long till it rotates. It's a degenerate combo in a fair deck, you have to try and build your deck for both plans and you while you have to respect the combo they just burn you out with value. Having to build your deck to basically fight two decks in one is what is allowing Mardu to run rampant. If you build your deck to fight Mardu then you'll lose to Felidar and if you build your deck to fight Felidar you'll get run over by Mardu. One of them has to go and I just don't see it being Mardu.
I voted "No Bans". I think that WotC wants to be uber-cautious that they don't tank interest by doing a ton of banning. I think that because they have no idea what the meta should even look like anymore due to the lack of a BFZ Rotation and the banning of Copter and Emmy (cards they assumed WOULD be in Standard) AND the fact that they had no clue CopyCat would be in Standard, they're going to let Amonkhet get released into the existing format and just see what happens. If they were going to snap-ban CopyCat instead of playing "wait and see" they would have done so last month, me thinks.
I think the next round of bannings, pre-HoD, will almost certainly see a ton of bans as a result - at a minimum Gideon and Felidar, but possibly also Heart of Kiran and Scrapheap Scrounger to make sure Mardu Vehicles is D-E-A-D. But for April 24th I think they're going to just leave it alone and let the Pros sort it out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I could see a Felidar ban actually. If they really want to push the new set for the next pro tour they will want to shake things up by banning the current best decks in standard - just like they did last time around.
Yeah, that is what I was thinking. But if that is the case, then why not announce the bans today in order to give the proper context for deckbuilding preparation like they did last time? I was waiting for a surprise announcement to that effect. I really agree that the cat combo needs to go, *now*. That way Amonkhet's cards have much more interest due to the increased shakeup. Standard has been all but dead ever since March 13th ... not a single event has fired.
Scrap Heap isn't a problem going forward. Have you seen the size of these new creatures? A little 3/2 is not going to matter much. The new red dragon is going to be a fine answer to Gideon. But it's Mardu and Copy Cat who will pick this card up.
It's possible some of the new decks will shake up the format some, but Copy Cat decks will do their best to prevent it. Maybe the GB constrictor deck can leverage Manglehorn and things like Destined to Lead and the Green god into a way to overpower Cat. Maybe the Zombies deck can shove its way in. Maybe an updated Flash deck that can always hold up threats and removal will push open the metagame.
We'll see though. I'm skeptical.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I'm kind of skeptical of them doing anything before PT Amonkhet is in the books. They did say that is the earliest point at which we can expect bans. Amonkhet seems like it will bring quite a few good additions to the format and it may just well be that the format will correct itself, maybe even before the PT. However, if anything does get banned next Monday it will/should probably be Felidar Guardian if for no other reason then to make five drops good again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
The new Gideon was meant to replace the old, as they both weren't destined to hold hands in standard they could target the best card in standard along with dirty kitty.
However, since last time they blithely decided 3 weeks prior to the ban date NOT to ban anything, they could be lazy and have already decided not to ban anything and see how it shakes out. Considering how unfun felidar is they should ban it. There's a LOT of hate for vehicles by design but there's nothing good vs planeswalkers still except Glorybringer. They haven't cared so far, why should they now?
I think the no ban people are right, though it'll make me less trusting of standard until I see how they plan to right the ship with HoD. Another mess of months designing decks around not getting infinitely licked to death is not fun and I won't give them my money.
Don't you guys think it would be a disaster if the next pro tour gets dominated by Vehicles and/or Copycat?
Remember, the pro tour is supposed to show off the latest set. There's a much greater chance of Amonkhet cards seeing play if they ban the most powerful cards from kaladesh. Is there really anything in Amonkhet that can compete with the 2 deck stanglehold we see now?
I strongly doubt we'll see a Gideon ban. But Felidar needs to go, there is no way WotC wants that deck running around for the next year or however long till it rotates. It's a degenerate combo in a fair deck, you have to try and build your deck for both plans and you while you have to respect the combo they just burn you out with value. Having to build your deck to basically fight two decks in one is what is allowing Mardu to run rampant. If you build your deck to fight Mardu then you'll lose to Felidar and if you build your deck to fight Felidar you'll get run over by Mardu. One of them has to go and I just don't see it being Mardu.
GIDEON- Medium. Personally, I hope they let the whole Gideon tribal thing play out first, to see if its really OP. But while Gids has always been a staple, I've never really found him overwhelming (unless you get one three turns in a row, in which case, sheesh. But there's a lot of cards that are overwhelming if you get multiples- ever deal with three consecutive Verduous Gearhulks?)
FELIDAR GUARDIAN- High. Won't be sad in the least. These decks are boring to play against, and under no circumstances should there be 2- or 3-card infinite combos in Standard (I'd say in Magic period, but that ship sailed a long time ago). For that matter, I'd say ban Crackdown Construct, although that's at least slightly easier to deal with.
HEART OF KIRAN- Low. Its strong, but not overpowered, and I'm not seeing the overwhelming presence the Copter had. Heck, i'd like to see Copter unbanned- there's enough answers for it now.
SCRAPHEAP SCROUNGER- Very Low. There's absolutely no reason to ban this.
WINDING CONSTRICTOR- Next to none. BGC wasn't even Tier 1 towards the end of the rotation, and this guys' going to become risky as hell to play in Amonkhet once the -1/-1 counters start flying around.
If I had to make a call, I'd say its the Felidar Guardian only that gets banned, with no unbanning.
I think liliana needs to go it doesn't need to be in standard with new liliana, Lol.. Gideon is good but its not exclusive to one deck like Felidar Guardian . I vote no change this time, just wait and see how the new set impacts.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Don't you guys think it would be a disaster if the next pro tour gets dominated by Vehicles and/or Copycat?
Remember, the pro tour is supposed to show off the latest set. There's a much greater chance of Amonkhet cards seeing play if they ban the most powerful cards from kaladesh. Is there really anything in Amonkhet that can compete with the 2 deck stanglehold we see now?
That's a really, really, incredibly poor way of going about a ban. While I do think that both Gideon AoZ and Saheeli need to go (And specifically Saheeli, as Guardian has more interesting applications), the reason is because they are simply degenerate. While Amonkhet getting overshadowed is a major concern, it's not a good reason on its face. As of right now we are in a 2.5 deck format, and it's honestly probably just a straight 2 deck format. That is not healthy in the least.
The new Gideon was meant to replace the old, as they both weren't destined to hold hands in standard they could target the best card in standard along with dirty kitty.
However, since last time they blithely decided 3 weeks prior to the ban date NOT to ban anything, they could be lazy and have already decided not to ban anything and see how it shakes out. Considering how unfun felidar is they should ban it. There's a LOT of hate for vehicles by design but there's nothing good vs planeswalkers still except Glorybringer. They haven't cared so far, why should they now?
I think the no ban people are right, though it'll make me less trusting of standard until I see how they plan to right the ship with HoD. Another mess of months designing decks around not getting infinitely licked to death is not fun and I won't give them my money.
I disagree with Cat getting banned. I think it should be Saheeli. Saheeli is just plain unplayable hot garbage if it isn't comboing out. Felidar Guardian has some interesting applications with Rogue Refiner, Whirler Virtuoso, Oaths, and now the Trials, as well as marginal value with planeswalkers. It has a lot of cool things you can do with it, and opens up a lot of deck building while being pretty damn fair at the end of the day without Saheeli. Saheeli, however, is just not a good card. It's either a combo piece or it's worthless.
I don't believe anything will get banned in standard. Yes copycat combo is a big part of the field but name a large tourny were one deck type wasn't at least 30% of the field without a new set. Amonket does't give a whole lot of stuff to standard but it gives some and that some is enough that i think balances out the field vs copycat as they dont maindeck removal.
They need to minimize bans to maximize confidence in the format. This is why they might not ban anything.
But copycat is bad for attenandance. Imagine you're a first time player and in your first game you cast Neheb the Worthy. Opponent casts Saheeli. You attack, deal 2 damage to Saheeli, cast another creature and pass. Opponent casts Felidar. Game ends. Potential new player decides to find a different hobby. I think that is the reason that combo needs to go. Combo is good, but this one is not balanced in standard.
Gideon on the other hand, just got 5 maindeckable answers, in the form of gods. Gideon attacks, god blocks. You aren't dead.
Also, the guy in charge of development probably needs to be banned. From developing any more sets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I doubt anything gets unbanned. It would drive away another large portion of players. I had just picked up my playset of Copters at around $20 dollars each just before the ban was announced and traded them for around $4-5 each. If they unban coppter it will shoot up to around $40 dollars apiece and lock out a lot of player from playing in standard.
Yeah no way Copter is getting an unban. Do you really want Mardu Vehicles to be even better than it is? Especially since they likely won't ban anything else from the deck
At the moment a lot of players probably don't want to play standard anyway. Not saying lack of player interest is going to effect a ban decision, though. I had copters for about 3 usd on pre-order because they were so good at the time I just bought them out of habit.
I'm very interested in seeing if they ban [card]Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, though. That card has been in standard for ages and it overshadows the new gideon by a great deal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
At the moment a lot of players probably don't want to play standard anyway. Not saying lack of player interest is going to effect a ban decision, though. I had copters for about 3 usd on pre-order because they were so good at the time I just bought them out of habit.
I'm very interested in seeing if they ban [card]Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, though. That card has been in standard for ages and it overshadows the new gideon by a great deal.
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
They would not print so many hate cards in Amonkhet for no reason, right?
They missed the cat interaction, the hate was incidental as it was all designed a year ago.
Spirits
Then Felidar Guardian would be banned, just like many of the past developmental mistakes WoTC has made.
Due to cat combo being a screw up (admitted by Wotc), they should do the right thing and axe this card the way they axed Reflector Mage.
Gideon just needs to go, that card and new gideon shouldn't be in the same standard.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Just my opinion.
I think the next round of bannings, pre-HoD, will almost certainly see a ton of bans as a result - at a minimum Gideon and Felidar, but possibly also Heart of Kiran and Scrapheap Scrounger to make sure Mardu Vehicles is D-E-A-D. But for April 24th I think they're going to just leave it alone and let the Pros sort it out.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
It's possible some of the new decks will shake up the format some, but Copy Cat decks will do their best to prevent it. Maybe the GB constrictor deck can leverage Manglehorn and things like Destined to Lead and the Green god into a way to overpower Cat. Maybe the Zombies deck can shove its way in. Maybe an updated Flash deck that can always hold up threats and removal will push open the metagame.
We'll see though. I'm skeptical.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
However, since last time they blithely decided 3 weeks prior to the ban date NOT to ban anything, they could be lazy and have already decided not to ban anything and see how it shakes out. Considering how unfun felidar is they should ban it. There's a LOT of hate for vehicles by design but there's nothing good vs planeswalkers still except Glorybringer. They haven't cared so far, why should they now?
I think the no ban people are right, though it'll make me less trusting of standard until I see how they plan to right the ship with HoD. Another mess of months designing decks around not getting infinitely licked to death is not fun and I won't give them my money.
Remember, the pro tour is supposed to show off the latest set. There's a much greater chance of Amonkhet cards seeing play if they ban the most powerful cards from kaladesh. Is there really anything in Amonkhet that can compete with the 2 deck stanglehold we see now?
Saheeli/Felidar rotate Fall 2018.
GIDEON- Medium. Personally, I hope they let the whole Gideon tribal thing play out first, to see if its really OP. But while Gids has always been a staple, I've never really found him overwhelming (unless you get one three turns in a row, in which case, sheesh. But there's a lot of cards that are overwhelming if you get multiples- ever deal with three consecutive Verduous Gearhulks?)
FELIDAR GUARDIAN- High. Won't be sad in the least. These decks are boring to play against, and under no circumstances should there be 2- or 3-card infinite combos in Standard (I'd say in Magic period, but that ship sailed a long time ago). For that matter, I'd say ban Crackdown Construct, although that's at least slightly easier to deal with.
HEART OF KIRAN- Low. Its strong, but not overpowered, and I'm not seeing the overwhelming presence the Copter had. Heck, i'd like to see Copter unbanned- there's enough answers for it now.
SCRAPHEAP SCROUNGER- Very Low. There's absolutely no reason to ban this.
WINDING CONSTRICTOR- Next to none. BGC wasn't even Tier 1 towards the end of the rotation, and this guys' going to become risky as hell to play in Amonkhet once the -1/-1 counters start flying around.
If I had to make a call, I'd say its the Felidar Guardian only that gets banned, with no unbanning.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That's a really, really, incredibly poor way of going about a ban. While I do think that both Gideon AoZ and Saheeli need to go (And specifically Saheeli, as Guardian has more interesting applications), the reason is because they are simply degenerate. While Amonkhet getting overshadowed is a major concern, it's not a good reason on its face. As of right now we are in a 2.5 deck format, and it's honestly probably just a straight 2 deck format. That is not healthy in the least.
I disagree with Cat getting banned. I think it should be Saheeli. Saheeli is just plain unplayable hot garbage if it isn't comboing out. Felidar Guardian has some interesting applications with Rogue Refiner, Whirler Virtuoso, Oaths, and now the Trials, as well as marginal value with planeswalkers. It has a lot of cool things you can do with it, and opens up a lot of deck building while being pretty damn fair at the end of the day without Saheeli. Saheeli, however, is just not a good card. It's either a combo piece or it's worthless.
But copycat is bad for attenandance. Imagine you're a first time player and in your first game you cast Neheb the Worthy. Opponent casts Saheeli. You attack, deal 2 damage to Saheeli, cast another creature and pass. Opponent casts Felidar. Game ends. Potential new player decides to find a different hobby. I think that is the reason that combo needs to go. Combo is good, but this one is not balanced in standard.
Gideon on the other hand, just got 5 maindeckable answers, in the form of gods. Gideon attacks, god blocks. You aren't dead.
Also, the guy in charge of development probably needs to be banned. From developing any more sets.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I'm very interested in seeing if they ban [card]Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, though. That card has been in standard for ages and it overshadows the new gideon by a great deal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Some say wizards only banned Smuggler's copter because it outclassed Heart of kiran, if true Gideon may meet the same fate.