So the article states "we meet earlier this month".
Does that mean they didn't take into consideration the results of both GP's this week where Saheeli Combo dominated?
If not, that seems terrible and very shortsighted.
Seems like they already made up there mind, had this article a week ago, and just printed it today with no revisions.
Correct; from how I'm reading their announcement; they made the decision to make no changes to the B&R list 2 to 3 weeks ago. In my opinion; Wizards are/was stuck between a rock and a hard place; and no matter what decision was released today (no bans or cards being banned) they were going to alienate players either way.
Psy
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:
Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
Congrats to everyone who didn't want any bans. For the most part I think we had some good discussion here.
For me this just proves that they have no clue what they're doing.
They purposely created Emrakul and mr smugglepants, then they ban them because Standard is suffering.
Now they totally miss the least fun combo game ender they've printed in years... and they leave it in place.
How lazy are they that they made this decision 3 weeks ago?!?!?! How hard would it have been to at worst have the meeting on Friday 10th to have the most info possible? Do they think they're congress?
I'm feeling like Gimple is in charge (the Walking Dead) and they've jumped the shark completely.
-"Hey guys, the ban didn't work. There are fewer decks in Standard."
+"Yea, that felidar thing is unfortunate."
-"Amonkhet is dropping soon. Maybe we did better with that one."
+"Yea lets wait and see. Maybe we'll get lucky. I need time to refresh my resume anyways."
-"Good idea. Lets say something about how closely we're watching so they think we have a plan."
Seriously, one deck (Temur Tower) pokes it's head up at Utrecht and they figure things will magically get better? It didn't even top 8! What the huh?
And all the events since (which they didn't consider) have solidified how bad a decision this is in a 2 deck not fun meta. I'm sad.
"while watching the format continue to shift" they said. They should have used the word narrow.
I simply can't stand to play another match against dirty kitty. I'm out. Dropping standard which makes me sad because I like to play magic, when it's fun. Not a poor sport thing it's just I agreed with the pros pre Kaladesh when they called it a 3/10 for fun in standard. For me right now it's 1/10. The hope that they'd work to make things better is just not there anymore. But hey! My Gideon's still have their value. Always a bright side right?
Guess I'll draft once in a while if I have the itch or play Hold'em. At least then I can make some money.
Good luck everyone!
For me the biggest takeaway is that they aren't planning on making any changes to the format until after the next PT, so that means we will have another 3 (three) months of DirtyKitty and Mardu Vehicles at worst, or six weeks at best if anything at all relevant comes with the new set. Is anyone else simply excited?
Standard has become a bad joke.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Short version- "CopyCat (Saheeli + Felidar Guardian) is a stupid mistake that warps everything around it. I don’t think I’m being particularly harsh. It’s not really what Standard ought to be about. It just won both GPs, which doesn’t prove that it’s oppressive or anything, but does prove it’s a tier 1 strategy, even within the warped world it creates. That’s a problem." -Sperling
and
"-at least the people who invested in this format can continue to play it. Assuming they still want to." -Sperling
How long 'till someone actually gets fired over this line of play? Guess we will see. I think FNM participation is about to tank.
What's the point of this new "March 13 announcement" if they aren't even going to get rid of a combo they never intended that also happen to have a big meta share? Might as well scrap the idea of this B&R announcement date if they aren't using it for anything!
For me the biggest takeaway is that they aren't planning on making any changes to the format until after the next PT, so that means we will have another 3 (three) months of DirtyKitty and Mardu Vehicles at worst, or six weeks at best if anything at all relevant comes with the new set. Is anyone else simply excited?
Standard has become a bad joke.
that's what I don't get, usually they do bannings when a new set releases, but the article states they are waiting till after PT Amonkhet. Does that mean they already decided not to ban anything during the next ban announcement as well?
Glad they didn't ban anything. Stores would have ended up with a ton of product on their hands they wouldn't be able to move after consumer confidence plummeted if they did ban anything.
I'm not saying the cat combo is "fun" magic for both sides of the table, but the volume of mardu decks at the GPs top 32 rank this week was pretty high. The two decks commanded easily over 60-70% of the field combined.
Hopefully we get better answers in Amonkhet. I'd love to see something along the lines of solid red creature burn that can keep pace with the threats.
Glad they didn't ban anything. Stores would have ended up with a ton of product on their hands they wouldn't be able to move after consumer confidence plummeted if they did ban anything.
I'm not saying the cat combo is "fun" magic for both sides of the table, but the volume of mardu decks at the GPs top 32 rank this week was pretty high. The two decks commanded easily over 60-70% of the field combined.
Hopefully we get better answers in Amonkhet. I'd love to see something along the lines of solid red creature burn that can keep pace with the threats.
I can't even remember that last red creature that was any good. I guess Zurgo Bellstriker?
Clearly a lot of people are going to upset from the announcement that there will be no bans. But Wizards, as a business, can't tend to the preferences of each and every player. At the end of the day, they can only do their best to cater to as many players as possible, and it is evident that most players likely wanted no bans this time around. Even with how bad standard is right now, at some point, Wizards is just going to have to say, "If you don't like how Standard is right now, then don't play Standard."
Also, none of us here can speak for the entire MTG community. Just because one or few local stores reported a dearth of standard attendance or even close down because of it doesn't mean Standard is completely dead.
To me this signals wizards is confidant that Amonkhet will fix standard. I'm not playing standard at the moment but I'll revaluate returning to standard after Amonkhet is spoiled.
For me the biggest takeaway is that they aren't planning on making any changes to the format until after the next PT, so that means we will have another 3 (three) months of DirtyKitty and Mardu Vehicles at worst, or six weeks at best if anything at all relevant comes with the new set. Is anyone else simply excited?
Standard has become a bad joke.
that's what I don't get, usually they do bannings when a new set releases, but the article states they are waiting till after PT Amonkhet. Does that mean they already decided not to ban anything during the next ban announcement as well?
In my opinion, waiting until PT Amonkhet is too long in my opinion. While I can understand and sympathize the sentiment of there being no bans this time around. Wizards should make up their minds by the time Amonkhket releases. Think about it, a large fraction of people are already looking to switch decks with the addition of a new set. So introducing bannings then would be much smoother then after PT Amonkhet, where the great majority of players will already have established and traded for their builds, which would lead to a mass leaving of the format if suddenly their decks along with hundreds of their dollars suddenly goes flying out the window. Hell, this reasoning worked in Wizards' favor in generating interest for the FIRST week of Aether Revolt. Personally, I think Cat should go when Amonkhet releases to further reinforce the idea of a newer meta to explore (common sentiments of the first weeks of Aether Revolt).
My guess is they chickened out opted for inaction instead of trying to fix the problem and take responsibility for it.
Amonkhet might bring about something interesting but Standard will look pretty bleak until then. That set should be judged on it's own merits and not it's ability to tidy up this mess of a format. Regardless of whether it does or doesn't that doesn't change the fact this decision doesn't make much sense. I would venture to say that this Standard is in far worse shape then it was in January when three cards were banned.
Bottom line is they are pretending everything is OK to save face and might actually wait for the next set's release before pulling the plug on Mardu and CopyCat. They will say then that they are doing it to "spice up" the metagame for the Pro Tour and completely sidetrack the issue that the format was ripe for bans two months ago but they chickened out of it because they were scared of bad press and alienating an already pissed off player base.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
For me the biggest takeaway is that they aren't planning on making any changes to the format until after the next PT, so that means we will have another 3 (three) months of DirtyKitty and Mardu Vehicles at worst, or six weeks at best if anything at all relevant comes with the new set. Is anyone else simply excited?
Standard has become a bad joke.
that's what I don't get, usually they do bannings when a new set releases, but the article states they are waiting till after PT Amonkhet. Does that mean they already decided not to ban anything during the next ban announcement as well?
For me the biggest takeaway is that they aren't planning on making any changes to the format until after the next PT, so that means we will have another 3 (three) months of DirtyKitty and Mardu Vehicles at worst, or six weeks at best if anything at all relevant comes with the new set. Is anyone else simply excited?
Standard has become a bad joke.
that's what I don't get, usually they do bannings when a new set releases, but the article states they are waiting till after PT Amonkhet. Does that mean they already decided not to ban anything during the next ban announcement as well?
In my opinion, waiting until PT Amonkhet is too long in my opinion. While I can understand and sympathize the sentiment of there being no bans this time around. Wizards should make up their minds by the time Amonkhket releases. Think about it, a large fraction of people are already looking to switch decks with the addition of a new set. So introducing bannings then would be much smoother then after PT Amonkhet, where the great majority of players will already have established and traded for their builds, which would lead to a mass leaving of the format if suddenly their decks along with hundreds of their dollars suddenly goes flying out the window. Hell, this reasoning worked in Wizards' favor in generating interest for the FIRST week of Aether Revolt. Personally, I think Cat should go when Amonkhet releases to further reinforce the idea of a newer meta to explore (common sentiments of the first weeks of Aether Revolt).
My understanding from this announcement is that the next banning announcement will be between Amonkhet prerelease and release, not after the Pro Tour. I believe this is in accordance with the schedule presented with the last bans.
My understanding from this announcement is that the next banning announcement will be between Amonkhet prerelease and release, not after the Pro Tour. I believe this is in accordance with the schedule presented with the last bans.
To quote the announcement from this morning regarding Standard,
"-we thought it best to gather more data—including more Grand Prix and the inclusion of Amonkhet at the Pro Tour".
Disappointed to see no changes. I only played in side events at GPNJ but the Saheeli decks were such a pain; they represented maybe half the decks I faced and 80% of my losses. That said, I'm fairly convinced that the problem is the deck, not the combo. The combo is easy enough to break; the problem is that it's extremely difficult to deal with Gideon, Chandra, Tamiyo, etc. while also holding up Shock/Negate/Lightning. A Gideon ban might have done the trick but I'm not sure where that would leave Mardu Vehicles relative to B/G Constrictor.
And this is coming from a deck practically built to kill planeswalkers (Shock, Negate, haste and trample creatures, flying vehicles including Skysovereign). I have to imagine it's even more frustrating for other builds.
Well I went ahead and sold my remaining standard cards , the in store credit has gotten me to be a mere 7 cards away from finishing my second modern deck. Once MM17 hits I'll have the last pieces and I'll play standard only to grind PPTQ's and bigger events. Never ever, going to invest into standard cards/decks unless I borrow them and or work on having fun via limited. If standard changes in a month maybe, but I doubt it will. The answers and kind of disruption you need to tackle Saheeli and Mardu may not have been printed in Amonkhet. It may very well stay a 2 deck format until BFZ rotates. To those who will play standard for fun, good luck, I can't see how playing against these 2 decks at FNM is fun. If you are grinding, it's smelling like rotten eggs...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
To quote the announcement from this morning regarding Standard,
"-we thought it best to gather more data—including more Grand Prix and the inclusion of Amonkhet at the Pro Tour".
I could be reading it wrong. I can understand how one could read the announcement as stating absolutely that there will be no more standard bans before Pro Tour Amonkhet. I don't necessarily read it that way.
With that kind of movement in the format, we thought it best to gather more data—including more Grand Prix and the inclusion of Amonkhet at the Pro Tour—while watching the format continue to shift before making any changes.
I can also read the dashed inclusion as somewhat parenthetical, providing some of the decision factors but not necessarily requiring all of them to make a decision. Further, even if the no bans on April 24 reading is correct, I think they will still ban on April 24 if they consider it necessary.
They really messed up with the last three bannings, because now when something actually needs a banning they cannot do it for fear they will alienate too many players.
It's like the boy who cried wolf.
Unless their goal is to get everyone to quit standard and play modern, which I cannot imagine why
Do we honestly expect there NOT to be a lot of kill spells? Bolas is all about control, and cruel control has been waiting for this block for modern, I can't see it not printing more answers.
But to the people whining about cat not being banned...
Play a goddamn shock, or shut up. The very seldom times cat comes from a nahiri ult and saheeli is already out, I can see being salty. That's you pretty buried. But saheeli decks have nothing else you need shock for. No other deadly threats to worry about losing to. If you lose to it, you deserve to. Like it or not, you learn how to play good magic. Older players learned it by playing vs Splinter Twin. You CANNOT focus only on your own side of the board. Saheeli cat combo can go off, so you hold a mana open for shock, whether you have one or not. They won't play it if they expect a shock and have no second saheeli. If you can't learn to play around your opponent's deck, you won't ever do well in any standard, modern, legacy, or commander.
Couldn't have said it better myself. And the combo isn't "oppressive" to deck building either. Every color, except green, has some form of efficient answer to the combo.
However I've noticed that people usually don't buy into bluffs at the most FNMs near ne; if they draw the combo pieces, they're going to play it even if you're holding up mana for a disruption. But that might be a topic for another thread.
Mardu Vehicles however I think does need a serious nerf. Gideon and Heart of Kiran is just insane: a 4/4 flyer and indestructible 5/5 on the ground is absolutely ridiculous. Heart of Kiran is manageable especially with Fatal Push, but there are very few ways to deal with Gideon when he's attacking you. Every loss I've had with Mardu Vehicles (excluding being flooded or screwed) is due to Gideon.
Do we honestly expect there NOT to be a lot of kill spells? Bolas is all about control, and cruel control has been waiting for this block for modern, I can't see it not printing more answers.
But to the people whining about cat not being banned...
Play a goddamn shock, or shut up. The very seldom times cat comes from a nahiri ult and saheeli is already out, I can see being salty. That's you pretty buried. But saheeli decks have nothing else you need shock for. No other deadly threats to worry about losing to. If you lose to it, you deserve to. Like it or not, you learn how to play good magic. Older players learned it by playing vs Splinter Twin. You CANNOT focus only on your own side of the board. Saheeli cat combo can go off, so you hold a mana open for shock, whether you have one or not. They won't play it if they expect a shock and have no second saheeli. If you can't learn to play around your opponent's deck, you won't ever do well in any standard, modern, legacy, or commander.
Couldn't have said it better myself. And the combo isn't "oppressive" to deck building either. Every color, except green, has some form of efficient answer to the combo.
However I've noticed that people usually don't buy into bluffs at the most FNMs near ne; if they draw the combo pieces, they're going to play it even if you're holding up mana for a disruption. But that might be a topic for another thread.
Mardu Vehicles however I think does need a serious nerf. Gideon and Heart of Kiran is just insane: a 4/4 flyer and indestructible 5/5 on the ground is absolutely ridiculous. Heart of Kiran is manageable especially with Fatal Push, but there are very few ways to deal with Gideon when he's attacking you. Every loss I've had with Mardu Vehicles (excluding being flooded or screwed) is due to Gideon.
I played through Affinity standard. This is not close.
I played through Cawblade standard.
Again we are not in the same ballpark people.
There are plenty of options if you really want to win games. People seem to ignore BR control as an option due to a lack of a sweeper. Release the Gremlins is awesome versus vehicles. Black removal can stop the cat combo and shock can also get the job done.
Chandra is a reasonable theat. Transgress hits both parts of the combo. Lost Legacy kills the combo dead. I see answers, just not in people's pet decks.
I get that you have to draw the answers but that's Magic people.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
What a bunch of chumps over New Jersey and Barcelona, calling themselves pro and letting so many cat combos in top 8 and letting them win them all. Them should go back to learn to play magic. If only you threes had been there, you'd have shown them how it's done.
I think reality somehow prevailed over fantasy. The deck won. Twice. In a huge field with a lot of alternative decks, rogues decks. Sure, it had the numbers of registered decks for itself, but at the end of the day, it prevailed over all others, twice. Stop pretending you merely have to hold shock. They hold negate.
That said, I'm fairly convinced that the problem is the deck, not the combo.
THIS! A hunder times this! The problem is not the combo, but the fact that the combo can be housed in what is already a good deck, giving the good deck yet another avenue for attack. Its adding insult to injury.
Here is my two cents on what that problem with standard is, and how it wont be solved by bans: in the past, there were somewhat clear archetype distinctions. You had aggro (defined as a deck tbat wants ot empty the hand asap, and generally wins by beating down before the opponent can get their gameplan going), midrange (decks of incremental value, that take some setup, but after that setus is done they snowball out aggro's control) and then control (a deck that plays for a game longer than the midrange deck).
Recently, WOTC has nerfed control (counterspells are too ineficient/narrow, removal is generally less than 1-1 due to prevalenc eof powerful etb effects, and card-draw was significantly scaled down after the 'mistake' of Sphinx's Revelation), meaning midrange was the new control. But.... it also gave aggro tools to grind out a match, either by having cards that generate advntages the longer they stay in play, or cards that can positively trade with point removal (scrounger, thraben inspector, smugler's copter, tracker, rogue refiner, etc). So, when you nerf control and beef up aggro, what you get is a unique archetype: midrange (for those owndering, yes... I do believe the current builds of mardu are essentially midrange strategies... if you dont believe me, just see how well they can grund out games of 10-15 even 20 turns.)
The problem of a "midrange only" format is that there can only be so many midrange decks. WotC prints only so many resiliant, long-game cards, which means two things: there are few decks (there is only so many ways that the few powerful midrange cards can be palced together), and even still the format wont feel diverse because mostly all tier 1 decks will be playing the same grindy/midrangey strategy.
I thnk the answer is to (gradually, over the coming sets) go back to basic archetypes as they were meant to be: have one uber fast, blazing "sligh" deck that CANNOT go long vs midrange; have a powerful, resilient midrange deck that can handle 1-1 removal and slow grinds, but that CANNOT survive an avlanche of card advantage; and have one true powerful control deck that buries you under a bajilion cards if given enoug time, but fold to the sligh deck. I think RtR was the last seriously fun standard format, and that format had exaclty hsi structure: there were burn decks that either ended the game turn 4 or just folded, there where some Orzhov and GW midrange decks, and then there was UW control. Take a look at the T8 of the M15 pro tour and the T8 of Aether Revolt... the former had tru aggro, true midrange and true control all featured in it (and not only through the top 8). The same division held up in most GPs after that; this time around its a midrangey aggro (mardu) vs a midrange combo (cat) fight, with no real aggro and no real control in sight.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Does that mean they didn't take into consideration the results of both GP's this week where Saheeli Combo dominated?
If not, that seems terrible and very shortsighted.
Seems like they already made up there mind, had this article a week ago, and just printed it today with no revisions.
Correct; from how I'm reading their announcement; they made the decision to make no changes to the B&R list 2 to 3 weeks ago. In my opinion; Wizards are/was stuck between a rock and a hard place; and no matter what decision was released today (no bans or cards being banned) they were going to alienate players either way.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
For me this just proves that they have no clue what they're doing.
They purposely created Emrakul and mr smugglepants, then they ban them because Standard is suffering.
Now they totally miss the least fun combo game ender they've printed in years... and they leave it in place.
How lazy are they that they made this decision 3 weeks ago?!?!?! How hard would it have been to at worst have the meeting on Friday 10th to have the most info possible? Do they think they're congress?
I'm feeling like Gimple is in charge (the Walking Dead) and they've jumped the shark completely.
-"Hey guys, the ban didn't work. There are fewer decks in Standard."
+"Yea, that felidar thing is unfortunate."
-"Amonkhet is dropping soon. Maybe we did better with that one."
+"Yea lets wait and see. Maybe we'll get lucky. I need time to refresh my resume anyways."
-"Good idea. Lets say something about how closely we're watching so they think we have a plan."
Seriously, one deck (Temur Tower) pokes it's head up at Utrecht and they figure things will magically get better? It didn't even top 8! What the huh?
And all the events since (which they didn't consider) have solidified how bad a decision this is in a 2 deck not fun meta. I'm sad.
"while watching the format continue to shift" they said. They should have used the word narrow.
I simply can't stand to play another match against dirty kitty. I'm out. Dropping standard which makes me sad because I like to play magic, when it's fun. Not a poor sport thing it's just I agreed with the pros pre Kaladesh when they called it a 3/10 for fun in standard. For me right now it's 1/10. The hope that they'd work to make things better is just not there anymore. But hey! My Gideon's still have their value. Always a bright side right?
Guess I'll draft once in a while if I have the itch or play Hold'em. At least then I can make some money.
Good luck everyone!
Standard has become a bad joke.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/no-changes-to-the-banned-restricted-list/
Short version- "CopyCat (Saheeli + Felidar Guardian) is a stupid mistake that warps everything around it. I don’t think I’m being particularly harsh. It’s not really what Standard ought to be about. It just won both GPs, which doesn’t prove that it’s oppressive or anything, but does prove it’s a tier 1 strategy, even within the warped world it creates. That’s a problem." -Sperling
and
"-at least the people who invested in this format can continue to play it. Assuming they still want to." -Sperling
How long 'till someone actually gets fired over this line of play? Guess we will see. I think FNM participation is about to tank.
that's what I don't get, usually they do bannings when a new set releases, but the article states they are waiting till after PT Amonkhet. Does that mean they already decided not to ban anything during the next ban announcement as well?
I'm not saying the cat combo is "fun" magic for both sides of the table, but the volume of mardu decks at the GPs top 32 rank this week was pretty high. The two decks commanded easily over 60-70% of the field combined.
Hopefully we get better answers in Amonkhet. I'd love to see something along the lines of solid red creature burn that can keep pace with the threats.
I can't even remember that last red creature that was any good. I guess Zurgo Bellstriker?
Also, none of us here can speak for the entire MTG community. Just because one or few local stores reported a dearth of standard attendance or even close down because of it doesn't mean Standard is completely dead.
In my opinion, waiting until PT Amonkhet is too long in my opinion. While I can understand and sympathize the sentiment of there being no bans this time around. Wizards should make up their minds by the time Amonkhket releases. Think about it, a large fraction of people are already looking to switch decks with the addition of a new set. So introducing bannings then would be much smoother then after PT Amonkhet, where the great majority of players will already have established and traded for their builds, which would lead to a mass leaving of the format if suddenly their decks along with hundreds of their dollars suddenly goes flying out the window. Hell, this reasoning worked in Wizards' favor in generating interest for the FIRST week of Aether Revolt. Personally, I think Cat should go when Amonkhet releases to further reinforce the idea of a newer meta to explore (common sentiments of the first weeks of Aether Revolt).
Amonkhet might bring about something interesting but Standard will look pretty bleak until then. That set should be judged on it's own merits and not it's ability to tidy up this mess of a format. Regardless of whether it does or doesn't that doesn't change the fact this decision doesn't make much sense. I would venture to say that this Standard is in far worse shape then it was in January when three cards were banned.
Bottom line is they are pretending everything is OK to save face and might actually wait for the next set's release before pulling the plug on Mardu and CopyCat. They will say then that they are doing it to "spice up" the metagame for the Pro Tour and completely sidetrack the issue that the format was ripe for bans two months ago but they chickened out of it because they were scared of bad press and alienating an already pissed off player base.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
My understanding from this announcement is that the next banning announcement will be between Amonkhet prerelease and release, not after the Pro Tour. I believe this is in accordance with the schedule presented with the last bans.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
To quote the announcement from this morning regarding Standard,
"-we thought it best to gather more data—including more Grand Prix and the inclusion of Amonkhet at the Pro Tour".
And this is coming from a deck practically built to kill planeswalkers (Shock, Negate, haste and trample creatures, flying vehicles including Skysovereign). I have to imagine it's even more frustrating for other builds.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I can also read the dashed inclusion as somewhat parenthetical, providing some of the decision factors but not necessarily requiring all of them to make a decision. Further, even if the no bans on April 24 reading is correct, I think they will still ban on April 24 if they consider it necessary.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
It's like the boy who cried wolf.
Unless their goal is to get everyone to quit standard and play modern, which I cannot imagine why
Couldn't have said it better myself. And the combo isn't "oppressive" to deck building either. Every color, except green, has some form of efficient answer to the combo.
However I've noticed that people usually don't buy into bluffs at the most FNMs near ne; if they draw the combo pieces, they're going to play it even if you're holding up mana for a disruption. But that might be a topic for another thread.
Mardu Vehicles however I think does need a serious nerf. Gideon and Heart of Kiran is just insane: a 4/4 flyer and indestructible 5/5 on the ground is absolutely ridiculous. Heart of Kiran is manageable especially with Fatal Push, but there are very few ways to deal with Gideon when he's attacking you. Every loss I've had with Mardu Vehicles (excluding being flooded or screwed) is due to Gideon.
I played through Affinity standard. This is not close.
I played through Cawblade standard.
Again we are not in the same ballpark people.
There are plenty of options if you really want to win games. People seem to ignore BR control as an option due to a lack of a sweeper. Release the Gremlins is awesome versus vehicles. Black removal can stop the cat combo and shock can also get the job done.
Chandra is a reasonable theat. Transgress hits both parts of the combo. Lost Legacy kills the combo dead. I see answers, just not in people's pet decks.
I get that you have to draw the answers but that's Magic people.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
What a bunch of chumps over New Jersey and Barcelona, calling themselves pro and letting so many cat combos in top 8 and letting them win them all. Them should go back to learn to play magic. If only you threes had been there, you'd have shown them how it's done.
I think reality somehow prevailed over fantasy. The deck won. Twice. In a huge field with a lot of alternative decks, rogues decks. Sure, it had the numbers of registered decks for itself, but at the end of the day, it prevailed over all others, twice. Stop pretending you merely have to hold shock. They hold negate.
THIS! A hunder times this! The problem is not the combo, but the fact that the combo can be housed in what is already a good deck, giving the good deck yet another avenue for attack. Its adding insult to injury.
Recently, WOTC has nerfed control (counterspells are too ineficient/narrow, removal is generally less than 1-1 due to prevalenc eof powerful etb effects, and card-draw was significantly scaled down after the 'mistake' of Sphinx's Revelation), meaning midrange was the new control. But.... it also gave aggro tools to grind out a match, either by having cards that generate advntages the longer they stay in play, or cards that can positively trade with point removal (scrounger, thraben inspector, smugler's copter, tracker, rogue refiner, etc). So, when you nerf control and beef up aggro, what you get is a unique archetype: midrange (for those owndering, yes... I do believe the current builds of mardu are essentially midrange strategies... if you dont believe me, just see how well they can grund out games of 10-15 even 20 turns.)
The problem of a "midrange only" format is that there can only be so many midrange decks. WotC prints only so many resiliant, long-game cards, which means two things: there are few decks (there is only so many ways that the few powerful midrange cards can be palced together), and even still the format wont feel diverse because mostly all tier 1 decks will be playing the same grindy/midrangey strategy.
I thnk the answer is to (gradually, over the coming sets) go back to basic archetypes as they were meant to be: have one uber fast, blazing "sligh" deck that CANNOT go long vs midrange; have a powerful, resilient midrange deck that can handle 1-1 removal and slow grinds, but that CANNOT survive an avlanche of card advantage; and have one true powerful control deck that buries you under a bajilion cards if given enoug time, but fold to the sligh deck. I think RtR was the last seriously fun standard format, and that format had exaclty hsi structure: there were burn decks that either ended the game turn 4 or just folded, there where some Orzhov and GW midrange decks, and then there was UW control. Take a look at the T8 of the M15 pro tour and the T8 of Aether Revolt... the former had tru aggro, true midrange and true control all featured in it (and not only through the top 8). The same division held up in most GPs after that; this time around its a midrangey aggro (mardu) vs a midrange combo (cat) fight, with no real aggro and no real control in sight.