Sorry if this isn't the right spot for this wasn't exactly sure where to discuss possible standard bans.
Given that though with all of with outspokeness of pros and players alike on the health of standard and people identifying emrakul as a problem for standard what are the odds wizards brings a hammer down?
I mean as far as I can see they've printed no graveyard hate to hurt the delirium decks and no cards to really hurt but actually cards that just improve marvel. So what are the odds the axe the fat lady so she'll stop singing so much?
Sorry if this isn't the right spot for this wasn't exactly sure where to discuss possible standard bans.
Given that though with all of with outspokeness of pros and players alike on the health of standard and people identifying emrakul as a problem for standard what are the odds wizards brings a hammer down?
I mean as far as I can see they've printed no graveyard hate to hurt the delirium decks and no cards to really hurt but actually cards that just improve marvel. So what are the odds the axe the fat lady so she'll stop singing so much?
Wasn't Collected Company more busted in standard then Emrakul?
Eh yah but collect3d company didn't need a game on turn 4 is the issue.
My bad tupie-San don't know why I thought I was today been a long past few weeks I guess lol.
Tbuzzsaw. Yah it'd shake the game up alot in think marvel would still be a thing I guess gb delirium would still be a deck might find a new finisher or just adjust the gameplan.
Personally I think in order to preserve the games health over the next 9 months and to continue to stop the bleeding of event attendance and stuff she needs to go.
Now I play gb delirium which means inherently I play her alot but she needs to go she is starting to stifle the format pretty hard.
Standard bans are pretty rare. The last one was Jace/Stoneforge in 2011 and before that was Artifact Lands, Arcbound Ravager, and Disciple in 2005. Emrakul is a powerful card, but she isn't anywhere near the prevalence of the previous bans. The top decks on MTGGoldfish right now are UW Flash, Mardu Vehicles, Aetherworks Marvel, and RB Aggro with only the 3rd place deck using Emrakul. As someone else mentioned Collected company was much more likely a ban by just making all the top decks CoCo decks. If they didn't ban that they won't ban Emmy
If I had to get money I would say she won't be banned. As much as she is a pain in the butt to face, she really doesn't have the format-warping, play-or-you-lose meta attached to her like cawblade used to back in the day.
I think they bannded Reflector Mage because of the Jeskai Twin deck that is coming up with Saheeli Rai and Felidar Guardian. While not a necessary part of the combo, it certainly allowed the deck to gain time to set up.
I think they bannded Reflector Mage because of the Jeskai Twin deck that is coming up with Saheeli Rai and Felidar Guardian. While not a necessary part of the combo, it certainly allowed the deck to gain time to set up.
it's not like the deck even exists right now - the cards literally aren't legal atm. I'm kind of sad about this ban because I was hoping that the combo might spring up a new archetype, but banning RM makes me doubt it will happen. sad.
And without Copter to get in the way of it, it's got a much higher chance of hitting the opponent and rendering them incapable of countering whichever piece you don't have out.
I know it's not infallible, but it limits your opponent's ways of dealing with your combo, which is exactly what a combo player wants.
And without Copter to get in the way of it, it's got a much higher chance of hitting the opponent and rendering them incapable of countering whichever piece you don't have out.
I know it's not infallible, but it limits your opponent's ways of dealing with your combo, which is exactly what a combo player wants.
the problem is you still need to find your combo in the first place. casting RM buys you a lot of time, and blinking him gives even more time.
If bans have to happen, then Emrakul and Copter were good choices to get the axe. Both warp deck construction and constrict brewing to the detriment of the Standard format. If you're aggro, you were running 4x Copter and any deck interested in the late game had to recognize Emrakul, which often meant running Emmy.
But Reflector Mage? Come on, Wizards. I get that they were trying to ban something critical to each of the "Big Three" decks in Kaladesh Standard, but wouldn't Spell Queller be a better hit in that case? Or perhaps Gideon, who has a similar stifling effect on brewing (i.e. if you're in White, you're probably jamming 3-4 copies somewhere in the 75)? Oh, right, can't ban the money planewalkers and leader of the Gatewatch.
Complaints aside, these bans may very well be a good thing. Many folks, besides the grinders, at the LGS were actually interested in talking about Standard for the first time in forever. It might not translate into play, but it's better than nothing.
Except two of those cards weren't just in "one" of the three big decks.
From the get go people were cramming emrakul in bw, other control shells, various shades of delirium, and then marvel of course.
Copter was basically in every deck he'll was even in some decks that had emrakul in them. It was just way to efficient for its costs.
While banning copter hurts uw abit it would have still thrived unchecked but even then with copter gone it opens up more decks but pretty much the decks to beat would be various shades of Reflector Mage .deck
Even wizards admitted they had messed up on Reflector Mage from the jump. Reflector Mage represses any aggro deck as not only does it bounce a guy for almost a whole two turns it puts a relevant 2/3 body on the field that can block. Couple that with the fact it makes what should be great creatures (kalitas probably being the biggest one) look bad then it creates issues.
I remember countless times were I would be tweaking decks or deck building wondering if Reflector Mage would make running certain cards an issue. Alot of times having to account for Reflector Mage all timesh rough he deck building process which shouldn't happen imo.
Copter was basically in every deck he'll was even in some decks that had emrakul in them. It was just way to efficient for its costs.
I can't think of any deck that ran Emrakul and Copter, which ones are you talking about?
A lot of the Delirium decks at the start of the format ran both, but for the most part they dropped the Copter pretty quickly. I don't know of any noteworthy decks recently that played the two cards together.
Of course Emmy and Copter fit in more decks than Marvel/Delirium and Vehicles, and had strong, pervasive effects on the meta rather than pumping one deck over the top. That's why if anything was deserving of a ban, they were.
But Reflector Mage is different. Yes, it keeps certain cards down, but so do plenty of other powerful spells and creatures. It may put a damper on brewing with certain cards and strategies, as you say, but how is this materially different from any other format pillars?
Liliana, the Last Hope makes most 1-toughness creatures not viable in competitive settings; Spirit tribal has a bunch of pushed cards but practically folds to a resolved Liliana machine-gunning down one of their units per turn. Ishkanah is miserable for swarm aggro decks to combat, doing a superb job of gumming up the board. The preponderance of exile-based removal makes Metalwork Colossus more or less untenable as a deck. But these cards, similar in clout to Reflector Mage, weren't banned and likely won't be.
And that's what makes the Reflector Mage ban seem so arbitrary. It's a powerful card that warps the playability of some cards in the metagame, but isn't nearly in the same class as Emmy and the Looter Scooter, with plenty of similarly strong peers. That's why it seems as though that ban, and only that ban, was predicated on the notion of banning something integral to each of the "Big Three" more than anything else, with WotC too gunshy to nuke Gideon from orbit.
Of course Emmy and Copter fit in more decks than Marvel/Delirium and Vehicles, and had strong, pervasive effects on the meta rather than pumping one deck over the top. That's why if anything was deserving of a ban, they were.
But Reflector Mage is different. Yes, it keeps certain cards down, but so do plenty of other powerful spells and creatures. It may put a damper on brewing with certain cards and strategies, as you say, but how is this materially different from any other format pillars?
Liliana, the Last Hope makes most 1-toughness creatures not viable in competitive settings; Spirit tribal has a bunch of pushed cards but practically folds to a resolved Liliana machine-gunning down one of their units per turn. Ishkanah is miserable for swarm aggro decks to combat, doing a superb job of gumming up the board. The preponderance of exile-based removal makes Metalwork Colossus more or less untenable as a deck. But these cards, similar in clout to Reflector Mage, weren't banned and likely won't be.
And that's what makes the Reflector Mage ban seem so arbitrary. It's a powerful card that warps the playability of some cards in the metagame, but isn't nearly in the same class as Emmy and the Looter Scooter, with plenty of similarly strong peers. That's why it seems as though that ban, and only that ban, was predicated on the notion of banning something integral to each of the "Big Three" more than anything else, with WotC too gunshy to nuke Gideon from orbit.
While you raise a relevant point, there are a few ways around it, I think.
The problem is, they make the deck less consistent. Hmm.
Well, I'll keep thinking, but a few of the things off the top of my head:
Reckless Fireweaver maybe? Either they use removal on him early, or they let him stay.
Decoction Module in the deck would allow you to run the Whirler Virtuoso combo, too. We don't even necessarily need the extra modules either, because the main combo grants us infinite energy. Could be a way to get around Authority of the Consuls or Thalia, too. Though they would still get a lot of life. Still, a couple combat phases of swinging with a flock of thopters could let you catch back up fairly quickly.
I recognize that this just makes the deck more clunky, and I'll admit that your point about the combat phase was something I had overlooked.
If you want a cute back up to Saheeli combo, there is Wandering Fumarole and that artifact creature that gets +1/+1 every time you use an activated ability of a creature... Just infinity flip fumeroles stats to make infinitely big dude...
Or 2 cats, and Decoctation Module to make infinite Energy...which can later go into pummeler
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Given that though with all of with outspokeness of pros and players alike on the health of standard and people identifying emrakul as a problem for standard what are the odds wizards brings a hammer down?
I mean as far as I can see they've printed no graveyard hate to hurt the delirium decks and no cards to really hurt but actually cards that just improve marvel. So what are the odds the axe the fat lady so she'll stop singing so much?
Wasn't Collected Company more busted in standard then Emrakul?
Won't happen though. Aether Revolt might shake things up on its own maybe.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
My bad tupie-San don't know why I thought I was today been a long past few weeks I guess lol.
Tbuzzsaw. Yah it'd shake the game up alot in think marvel would still be a thing I guess gb delirium would still be a deck might find a new finisher or just adjust the gameplan.
Personally I think in order to preserve the games health over the next 9 months and to continue to stop the bleeding of event attendance and stuff she needs to go.
Now I play gb delirium which means inherently I play her alot but she needs to go she is starting to stifle the format pretty hard.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
it's not like the deck even exists right now - the cards literally aren't legal atm. I'm kind of sad about this ban because I was hoping that the combo might spring up a new archetype, but banning RM makes me doubt it will happen. sad.
Youtube Channel
Hope of Ghirapur!
And without Copter to get in the way of it, it's got a much higher chance of hitting the opponent and rendering them incapable of countering whichever piece you don't have out.
I know it's not infallible, but it limits your opponent's ways of dealing with your combo, which is exactly what a combo player wants.
Standard:
GMono-Green CountersG
Modern:
URStormUR
XMyr OverflowX
BWBlack-White TokensBW
EDH:
WUGrand Arbiter Augustine's Spell DenialWU
WGRhys's TokensWG
RKrenko's CommandR
the problem is you still need to find your combo in the first place. casting RM buys you a lot of time, and blinking him gives even more time.
Youtube Channel
But Reflector Mage? Come on, Wizards. I get that they were trying to ban something critical to each of the "Big Three" decks in Kaladesh Standard, but wouldn't Spell Queller be a better hit in that case? Or perhaps Gideon, who has a similar stifling effect on brewing (i.e. if you're in White, you're probably jamming 3-4 copies somewhere in the 75)? Oh, right, can't ban the money planewalkers and leader of the Gatewatch.
Complaints aside, these bans may very well be a good thing. Many folks, besides the grinders, at the LGS were actually interested in talking about Standard for the first time in forever. It might not translate into play, but it's better than nothing.
From the get go people were cramming emrakul in bw, other control shells, various shades of delirium, and then marvel of course.
Copter was basically in every deck he'll was even in some decks that had emrakul in them. It was just way to efficient for its costs.
While banning copter hurts uw abit it would have still thrived unchecked but even then with copter gone it opens up more decks but pretty much the decks to beat would be various shades of Reflector Mage .deck
Even wizards admitted they had messed up on Reflector Mage from the jump. Reflector Mage represses any aggro deck as not only does it bounce a guy for almost a whole two turns it puts a relevant 2/3 body on the field that can block. Couple that with the fact it makes what should be great creatures (kalitas probably being the biggest one) look bad then it creates issues.
I remember countless times were I would be tweaking decks or deck building wondering if Reflector Mage would make running certain cards an issue. Alot of times having to account for Reflector Mage all timesh rough he deck building process which shouldn't happen imo.
I can't think of any deck that ran Emrakul and Copter, which ones are you talking about?
Youtube Channel
A lot of the Delirium decks at the start of the format ran both, but for the most part they dropped the Copter pretty quickly. I don't know of any noteworthy decks recently that played the two cards together.
But Reflector Mage is different. Yes, it keeps certain cards down, but so do plenty of other powerful spells and creatures. It may put a damper on brewing with certain cards and strategies, as you say, but how is this materially different from any other format pillars?
Liliana, the Last Hope makes most 1-toughness creatures not viable in competitive settings; Spirit tribal has a bunch of pushed cards but practically folds to a resolved Liliana machine-gunning down one of their units per turn. Ishkanah is miserable for swarm aggro decks to combat, doing a superb job of gumming up the board. The preponderance of exile-based removal makes Metalwork Colossus more or less untenable as a deck. But these cards, similar in clout to Reflector Mage, weren't banned and likely won't be.
And that's what makes the Reflector Mage ban seem so arbitrary. It's a powerful card that warps the playability of some cards in the metagame, but isn't nearly in the same class as Emmy and the Looter Scooter, with plenty of similarly strong peers. That's why it seems as though that ban, and only that ban, was predicated on the notion of banning something integral to each of the "Big Three" more than anything else, with WotC too gunshy to nuke Gideon from orbit.
excellent reply. have my upvote please.
Youtube Channel
The problem is, they make the deck less consistent. Hmm.
Well, I'll keep thinking, but a few of the things off the top of my head:
Reckless Fireweaver maybe? Either they use removal on him early, or they let him stay.
Decoction Module in the deck would allow you to run the Whirler Virtuoso combo, too. We don't even necessarily need the extra modules either, because the main combo grants us infinite energy. Could be a way to get around Authority of the Consuls or Thalia, too. Though they would still get a lot of life. Still, a couple combat phases of swinging with a flock of thopters could let you catch back up fairly quickly.
I recognize that this just makes the deck more clunky, and I'll admit that your point about the combat phase was something I had overlooked.
Just gonna have to keep brewing, I suppose.
Standard:
GMono-Green CountersG
Modern:
URStormUR
XMyr OverflowX
BWBlack-White TokensBW
EDH:
WUGrand Arbiter Augustine's Spell DenialWU
WGRhys's TokensWG
RKrenko's CommandR
I did just get done watching minority report lmao
Or 2 cats, and Decoctation Module to make infinite Energy...which can later go into pummeler
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.