Not if Wizards announced it a year in advance. This would give time for the price to drop gradually. But we're off the point of the thread. Is SOI as a RETURN TO set a failure because good reprints weren't in it...no. It would have been nice to see a Huntmaster reprint or a Grafdigger's Cage reprint(especially given Coco is dominating). Cavern of Souls would have been awesome since that card is super over priced right now. It could have also helped other tribals and even Allies.
Stony Silence wouldn't have made sense since they are trying to push delirium and giving one card that completely shuts it down is not smart. I'll say it again....it appears any sense of Innistrad-y flavor(especially tribal) will have to wait until Coco rotates and the tribes may be competitive.
So, for your version to work, you'd need a work-around for making LOTV fit both storylines, and you can't.
It would hardly be any stretch as far as the storyline goes to have reprinted LotV in Shadows/EMN block. She fits fine in both stories. And, more importantly, LotV would have been extremely interesting in Standard given how she plays with Madness and Delirium.
To clarify, I wasn't expecting LotV to be reprinted; I'm too cynical to expect Wizards, a Hasbro subsidiary, to make a move like that when she can headline MM3: Gatewatch Us Take All Your Money! But to suggest she couldn't have easily been reprinted...well, Stoddard and MaRo whip up a sweet Kool-Aid, eh?
Stop kidding yourselves, the only reason people wanted a LOTV reprint is for competetive reasons.
I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. She's a fun card to play in Legacy, Modern, EDH, and would have been extremely cool in Standard. Powerful, iconic cards are fun to play with. I'd imagine a LotV reprint might have gotten some non-rotating format grognards with Lilis to give Standard a glance, like all the cool reprints in core sets of old used to. I know my interests in some Standards past were sparked by reprints of cards I owned and enjoyed slinging.
It's funny you find MM, MM2, EMA all cash grabs. You know who drives those prices? The player base. We put the value on those cards. So, if you want to blame anybody, look in the mirror.
Demand is certainly part of the equation, but so is supply. And we don't have any control over that.
And they are most certainly cash-grabs. Drastically lower resources spent on design, development, Standard-balancing, worldbuilding, art commissions...but packs cost 3x as much! What a bargain! It's as if old Core Sets, that did roughly the same thing as Masters sets, albeit at normal MSRP, have slipped down the memory hole. Let's completely forget about supplemental products like Conspiracy that take far more R&D resources, but still retail @ $3.99. Funny.
I think it is a solid block in a vacuum, especially when compared to other 'return to' sets. The mechanics are cool, even if they aren't overpowered; instead, some cards are grossly pushed and overpowered. It carried the torch successfully over from the previous Innistrad, even if it wasn't as powerful or as balanced with the tribes.
I would give the entire block a 7/10. Its a good set for beginners, especially compared to BFZ.
[quote from="GW2GuruUser7586 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/744939-safe-to-call-soi-block-a-failure-as-a-return-to?comment=49"]
If you look at "reprints per year" you should ALSO take into account the reprints in the core sets. The old system really was better due to that. Really either look at "reprints per block" or "reprints per time" - but at least take a full measurement of what's in standard/limited through that.
If you read my post - you'll see that I did, I just couldn't find the numbers. Also, most of the reprints in Core Sets are vanilla filler whearas very little of the stuff reprinted in the two-set blocks is filler - it always adds something to the mechanics of the set or was needed in Standard.
Someone said that about half the cards in core sets are reprints (I think it's less than that, but we'll use it for now) - there are 284 cards in M15 of which we estimate 142 are reprints. We'll say that half of those are irrelevant filler (vanilla creatures etc) which leaves us with 71.
So we have 92 for the Theros/M15 year vs 64 for the BFZ/SOI year.
So I'll grant we are seeing fewer reprints now by that measure. However I'd rather them not cut flavourful and interesting new cards just to meet some arbitrary demand for reprints (which will probably mostly be filler reprints anyway)
Also - did they say that the increased number of reprints would only be in the main line sets? Because they've done Masters sets back to back in both 2-block years, maybe they are using that to fill the reprint demand that is missing out of Core Sets, which is a good strategy because then they can reprint things that would otherwise break Standard.
Bottom Line, we are still under the boot of Khans block, specifically one card...Coco. Even after the pro tour, Bant Company still occupies 30% of the meta. Maybe SOI block wouldn't be looked down upon if a deck that existed before it wasn't still dominating. All Bant Coco is is a less resilient 4 color Rally. The reason IMO it's a failure is because WotC jammed in Eldrazi into SOI when nobody wanted them(who the heck cares if you sac a creature and get an eldrazi horror....That's Not Innistrad!). Tribes(save humans) can't compete because WotC forgot that tribal decks need proper lords(what if thalia's liet was a vamp which had the same buffs only for vamps). They completely punted on the legendary werewolf. There are good werewolves that a single awesome werewolf lord could have made them competitive. Without it, red's instant speed burn sux so it has to rely soley on creatures, which aren't good enough on their own. Spirits looked like they might break through but their best spirit also happens to fit like it was made for bant company(seriously WotC, you couldn't have seen Bant's dominance and added something like "if this creature enter's the battle field and it wasn't cast, sacrifice it").
Zombie's are trying and in a world without Coco, they could break thru. But again, no proper lord.
Is it a failure as a set. Nope. Plenty of cool cards. Cards that are making their way into Modern. Basically this set could have been called anything else and people would be less upset over it but Standard just doesn't feel like Innistrad. It doesn't even feel like Zendikar(no need to go into how they royally screwed up that one). It feels like another standard where one card dominates(i.e. Siege Rhino 2.0), but even Abzan in it's dominance never reached 30% meta share. WotC needs to grow up and start restricting cards that warp the format.
Luckily, Kaladesh is going to be a giant reset button. U/R hopefully will regain their place in standard. My prediction: is that U/R will be the pushed colors and artifact/equipment will be huge. They've dropped hints like with stone haven outfitterWeapons Trainer and Kazuul's Toll Collector. Those cards make no sense with the current power level of equipment. Not saying we will be seeing sword's level power, at least not in multiples, but a reprint of a couple of swords' type would be cool.
The tribes from Innistrad will have a chance to breath and see if they can compete in a fair meta. People will try to make Eldritch Evolution the new rally/chord of calling. Anyway, I was super excited for SOI until I saw the human/bant menace. Whatever Kaladesh standard will be, I don't think anyone can say with any certainty(unlike now where Coco would be dominant in any format in the last 10-15 years, when creatures became better than spells).
We're now 4 sets into the two block system, and the best reprint so far has been Sylvan Scrying.
I feel the lack of big reprints have made the last few blocks less interesting for me. I still enjoy SOI as a block, it brought some interesting stuff to constructed
I am still quite positive on SOI as a return block.
I hate BFZ but I like SOI.
My frustrations with standard are very much on the shoulders of BFZ. Coco on its own isn't quiet of a pain as Sylvan advocate, not dying to our only four mana wrath, buffing all these hard to kill Man lands and then there being a million ways to return the stupid Goyf, argh I hate it! serious I'd be less annoyed if that actually printed Goyf.
Yeah I wasn't super enthused with eldrazi in innstrad but I feel like they executed it much better in SOI than BFZ, they are interesting not just big things.
Stony Silence wouldn't have made sense since they are trying to push delirium and giving one card that completely shuts it down is not smart. I'll say it again....it appears any sense of Innistrad-y flavor(especially tribal) will have to wait until Coco rotates and the tribes may be competitive.
It would hardly be any stretch as far as the storyline goes to have reprinted LotV in Shadows/EMN block. She fits fine in both stories. And, more importantly, LotV would have been extremely interesting in Standard given how she plays with Madness and Delirium.
To clarify, I wasn't expecting LotV to be reprinted; I'm too cynical to expect Wizards, a Hasbro subsidiary, to make a move like that when she can headline MM3: Gatewatch Us Take All Your Money! But to suggest she couldn't have easily been reprinted...well, Stoddard and MaRo whip up a sweet Kool-Aid, eh?
I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. She's a fun card to play in Legacy, Modern, EDH, and would have been extremely cool in Standard. Powerful, iconic cards are fun to play with. I'd imagine a LotV reprint might have gotten some non-rotating format grognards with Lilis to give Standard a glance, like all the cool reprints in core sets of old used to. I know my interests in some Standards past were sparked by reprints of cards I owned and enjoyed slinging.
Demand is certainly part of the equation, but so is supply. And we don't have any control over that.
And they are most certainly cash-grabs. Drastically lower resources spent on design, development, Standard-balancing, worldbuilding, art commissions...but packs cost 3x as much! What a bargain! It's as if old Core Sets, that did roughly the same thing as Masters sets, albeit at normal MSRP, have slipped down the memory hole. Let's completely forget about supplemental products like Conspiracy that take far more R&D resources, but still retail @ $3.99. Funny.
I would give the entire block a 7/10. Its a good set for beginners, especially compared to BFZ.
If you read my post - you'll see that I did, I just couldn't find the numbers. Also, most of the reprints in Core Sets are vanilla filler whearas very little of the stuff reprinted in the two-set blocks is filler - it always adds something to the mechanics of the set or was needed in Standard.
Someone said that about half the cards in core sets are reprints (I think it's less than that, but we'll use it for now) - there are 284 cards in M15 of which we estimate 142 are reprints. We'll say that half of those are irrelevant filler (vanilla creatures etc) which leaves us with 71.
So we have 92 for the Theros/M15 year vs 64 for the BFZ/SOI year.
So I'll grant we are seeing fewer reprints now by that measure. However I'd rather them not cut flavourful and interesting new cards just to meet some arbitrary demand for reprints (which will probably mostly be filler reprints anyway)
Also - did they say that the increased number of reprints would only be in the main line sets? Because they've done Masters sets back to back in both 2-block years, maybe they are using that to fill the reprint demand that is missing out of Core Sets, which is a good strategy because then they can reprint things that would otherwise break Standard.
Zombie's are trying and in a world without Coco, they could break thru. But again, no proper lord.
Is it a failure as a set. Nope. Plenty of cool cards. Cards that are making their way into Modern. Basically this set could have been called anything else and people would be less upset over it but Standard just doesn't feel like Innistrad. It doesn't even feel like Zendikar(no need to go into how they royally screwed up that one). It feels like another standard where one card dominates(i.e. Siege Rhino 2.0), but even Abzan in it's dominance never reached 30% meta share. WotC needs to grow up and start restricting cards that warp the format.
Luckily, Kaladesh is going to be a giant reset button. U/R hopefully will regain their place in standard. My prediction: is that U/R will be the pushed colors and artifact/equipment will be huge. They've dropped hints like with stone haven outfitter Weapons Trainer and Kazuul's Toll Collector. Those cards make no sense with the current power level of equipment. Not saying we will be seeing sword's level power, at least not in multiples, but a reprint of a couple of swords' type would be cool.
The tribes from Innistrad will have a chance to breath and see if they can compete in a fair meta. People will try to make Eldritch Evolution the new rally/chord of calling. Anyway, I was super excited for SOI until I saw the human/bant menace. Whatever Kaladesh standard will be, I don't think anyone can say with any certainty(unlike now where Coco would be dominant in any format in the last 10-15 years, when creatures became better than spells).
I feel the lack of big reprints have made the last few blocks less interesting for me. I still enjoy SOI as a block, it brought some interesting stuff to constructed
I hate BFZ but I like SOI.
My frustrations with standard are very much on the shoulders of BFZ. Coco on its own isn't quiet of a pain as Sylvan advocate, not dying to our only four mana wrath, buffing all these hard to kill Man lands and then there being a million ways to return the stupid Goyf, argh I hate it! serious I'd be less annoyed if that actually printed Goyf.
Yeah I wasn't super enthused with eldrazi in innstrad but I feel like they executed it much better in SOI than BFZ, they are interesting not just big things.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own