I wasn't playing magic for the orig Innistrad but from what I gather, it was pretty sweet. You had really flavorful cards in sweet decks.
Instead, all SOI block seams to have done is provide a couple creatures for a pre SOI block spell(coco). It's pretty sad when Humans are the fastest and at the same time, best aggro deck. Humans! Not Vamps, werewolves, or zombies(didn't include spirits because they're tempo, not aggro). Maybe once Coco rotates it will feel more innistrad-y but right now, it just feels like a continuation of rally standard where it's just jam 3 colors, play coco, and win. No flavorful decks.
If Spirits or B/W Angel Control can prove to beat back the Bant beast, then I will happily admit I was wrong but Wizards needs to man up and ban Coco if the PT Day 2 meta looks anything like recent SSG events.
I don't think SOI is a complete failure. However I do think that even when CoCo rotates that humans may very well still be the best tribe, but I think at that point the others will finally have a fighting chance. Everyone called BFZ a massive failure, and to some extent it is, but after khans and the fetches left some of the cards started sneaking into decks. SOI block however immediately brought several cards to the table, unfortunately most got outclasses by a super pushed Avacyn that completely shut down dramatic game changing plays. And humans, frankly made cards from past blocks not even getting played into staples like all the 2/1 Savannah Lions with upside guys. But just like how 4 color good stuff decks completely overshadowed BFZ block, a single Dragons of Tarkir card is overshadowing all of SOI block.
Yeah, it's not BFZ level bad but Innistrad is the most flavorful set IMO in Magic history and WotC seemed to go out of there way to make sure the least flavorful tribe was the best. And you're right, it's not even that the SOI humans are OP. The bulk of humans come from pre SOI. WotC should realize there are more humans than any other sub type and make vamps, wolves, zombies, and spirits competitive to match them.
I get the don't want to ban cards in standard but seriously wizards...green cards cheating cards into play is almost always too OP in standard. You banned birthing pod in modern then in the next set, print the same effect.
Let's not forget that this was the second of back-to-back "Return" sets with essentially no notable reprints. Four sets and two blocks going to two of the most beloved planes in contemporary Magic history, released RIGHT AFTER core sets are discontinued and reprints will be facilitated through "Return" sets, and absolutely nothing of interest was reprinted.
No:
Enemy fetches
Goblin Guide
Bloodghast
Oracle of Mul Daya
Celestial Colonnade
Creeping Tar Pit
Raging Ravine
Stoneforge Mystic
Inquisition of Kozilek
Liliana of the Veil
Snapcaster Mage
Cavern of Souls
Craterhoof Behemoth
Just seems odd to me. Especially given their comments about getting rid of core sets and moving to a 2-set block system.
Snappy will never see a reprint in standard IMO. LotV was a storyline card and they did print a pretty decent 3cmc Lilly. Bloodghast could have made Vamps competitive. Ravine could have made wolves competitive(g/r). Cavern would have been sweet but bad mana was not the reason the tribes weren't great but Cavern def needs a reprint. In standard being countered isn't a big deal but in modern, it's what makes merfolk and other tribal playable in a land of remand and mana leak(believe me, as a grixis delver player, i hate seeing cavern T1)
Mystic would have been really cool since the level of equipment is way lowere than last time she was in standard, though it seams kaladesh may be upping that power level.
I agree with not reprinting enemy fetches since we just got done with 4 color decks and people were sick of fetches. Prolly will be another year or two to let people forget how much of a pain they can be since they are a major selling point to any set.
Craterhoof would have been safe to reprint since he would basically be unplayable right now. Elves can't compete with humans and no other deck could possibly use him for that mana cost.
I think a reprint of Huntmaster and Mayor of whatever(the guy that was the werewolf lord) would have made total sense.
This was a really really really good block. I 100% disagree with the OP. The cards are STRONG the abilities are COOL and it has a fantastic STORY. I hear this type of comment every single block. Every one. It seems to me that 75% of the magic community is unable to recognise how great a set is when it's printed and sets don't receive the credit it deserved until well after rotation. Look at the return to Zendikar block. I'll admit it's not amazing but it's way better then people give it credit for. The new Eldrazi cards are so freaking good they are a Tier 1 deck in Legacy, Modern and Vintage. Like seriously, how many sets can say they impacted multiple formats the way OGW did?
Imo the SOI block is one of the BEST blocks we have seen in a while.
Yeah, I was very disappointed with the block. Both as a return set and in general. I very much disliked return to Zendikar, and this was only slightly better. I'm pretty annoyed with the very low powered standard format it's resulted in as well.
In a time frame where we got back to back "Return" sets, I feel that SOI was the better of the two. BFZ was not that enjoyable for me. SOI was cool but I think I just had such nostalgia for the original Innistrad that SOI would have a hard time comparing to it.
SOI would have been better with more reprints from the original block though
I actually really liked the mechanics in SOI and Eldritch Moon. I think emerge, delirium, meld, and investigate all make sense flavor wise and are very fun to build around. I think they went a little wild giving all the best investigate abilities to white and green (should have gone to blue).
What I didn't really care for was the eldrazi twist in the storyline where the gate watch has to save everbody again. Not a fan of the gatewatch. I think it's probably because every member very specifically represents a different color which reminds me of like the power rangers or captain planet. Gatewatch be corny imo.
I will say, if you look at the first Innistrad and you look at the new set, tribes were not treated with the same amount of attention as in the old sets. Maybe it feels that way because they had 3 sets to do it across. I mean all it would have taken to make zombies just a little better would have been to reprint something like gravecrawler or even diregraf ghoul.
Overall I liked the block and I think standard will be really fun again once Dragons and Origins rotates. The only drawback in my mind is that it didn't totally scream Innistrad.
Emerge and Investigate are new mechanics that I like. Madness is great, but they played it far too safe. Delerium is meh - would have just preferred Threshold. I absolutely hate Meld.
As for the set in general, I don't think calling it a failure is fair. BFZ was a failure; SOI is merely mediocre.
Let's not forget that this was the second of back-to-back "Return" sets with essentially no notable reprints. Four sets and two blocks going to two of the most beloved planes in contemporary Magic history, released RIGHT AFTER core sets are discontinued and reprints will be facilitated through "Return" sets, and absolutely nothing of interest was reprinted.
No:
Enemy fetches
Goblin Guide
Bloodghast
Oracle of Mul Daya
Celestial Colonnade
Creeping Tar Pit
Raging Ravine
Stoneforge Mystic
Inquisition of Kozilek
Liliana of the Veil
Snapcaster Mage
Cavern of Souls
Craterhoof Behemoth
Just seems odd to me. Especially given their comments about getting rid of core sets and moving to a 2-set block system.
I really don't like this argument. I see it all the time and it literally makes my blood boil. What reprints did we see in RTR? Scars? What Ravnica and Mirrodin reprints made it into core sets? None. So keep banging this "failure" drum based on some made up perception that you are supposed to see reprints of good cards in return sets. It doesn't happen. It may happen now without cores, but of the cards you listed, you'll see those in the premier non-block sets like Modern Masters.
If you think the flavor is bad, how is reprinting a card from a past set flavorful? Ecspecially planeswalkers and some of the cards that played with the mechanics of those blocks like Snapcaster mage. Literally makes zero sense.
I don't think it's that important to have same plane reprints, but I do think the paucity of notable reprints since we shifted to this 2 block format has been appalling.
I don't think it's that important to have same plane reprints, but I do think the paucity of notable reprints since we shifted to this 2 block format has been appalling.
Look at it this way. What's the point of sets like Modern Masters and Eternal Masters if you reprint iconic (strong) cards from the previous block? Reprints only appeal to veteran players. New players could care less about a card from a previous set showing up in a return set. Save the reprints for the reprint sets, and keep the new sets full of fresh, new ideas. Will there be a time that a reprint makes sense in a return block? Absolutely, but most of INN's cards had no place in the current set. Same with BFZ, save for a few of the Landfall ZEN cards, but those didn't mesh well with the BFZ power level.
I don't think it's that important to have same plane reprints, but I do think the paucity of notable reprints since we shifted to this 2 block format has been appalling.
Look at it this way. What's the point of sets like Modern Masters and Eternal Masters if you reprint iconic (strong) cards from the previous block? Reprints only appeal to veteran players. New players could care less about a card from a previous set showing up in a return set. Save the reprints for the reprint sets, and keep the new sets full of fresh, new ideas. Will there be a time that a reprint makes sense in a return block? Absolutely, but most of INN's cards had no place in the current set. Same with BFZ, save for a few of the Landfall ZEN cards, but those didn't mesh well with the BFZ power level.
Again, I want reprints in general; I don't care if they're in plane or not. The problem with only including them in reprint sets is that the reprint sets are limited print runs that don't move the needle much. Now, if Wizards would actually print to demand, this would be less of an issue.
New players will eventually move to older formats, and they will be happy with their THS Thoughtseize, M15 Chord of Calling, and KTK Polluted Delta when they do.
This block has been going for a few months but i would have a hard time naming anything interesting out of these sets. Back to Back Return To "" blocks is pretty lame and probably fed into my (and others) malaise about this block. If there were a vote for "least inspired year of magic" i would vote for the last 12 months. When getting a foil control magic is a highlight of the year you know something got messed up.
Personally I think it's too early to call it a failure. The format sucking was mainly fallout from the year and a half of terrible design that preceded it and the block laid a pretty good foundation for after rotation.
this is my favorite block ever i think. they hit this one out of the park in terms of flavor, as well as with powerful constructed playable cards.
anyone who thinks the concept on this block was bad, do yourself a favor and read some HP lovecraft. this block was the perfect homage to so many of his stories. i cannot imagine it being any more well executed.
yes coco seems to definitely have been a mistake at this point. but aside from that elephant in the room, PT EMN seemed to have a lot of fresh interesting decks coming to the table.
The only reason the sets are disappointing is that WoTC definitely didn't listen to fans. The sets are fun and I'm personally having a blast trying to build delirium and spirits, but once the rotation hits hardly anything is going to be modern playable at this rate. People need fetch lands, cavern of souls, snapcasters, etc and fully deserve to get them through reprintings in return sets. The fact that the company publishing the sets is outright ignoring what players want is painful.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The only reason the sets are disappointing is that WoTC definitely didn't listen to fans. The sets are fun and I'm personally having a blast trying to build delirium and spirits, but once the rotation hits hardly anything is going to be modern playable at this rate. People need fetch lands, cavern of souls, snapcasters, etc and fully deserve to get them through reprintings in return sets. The fact that the company publishing the sets is outright ignoring what players want is painful.
Players have been asking for reprints basically since the beginning of MTG. Why do they need to start listening now? It's not like they've had 20+ years of success or anything.
And no, "people" don't need those cards, competetive players do. That's what Modern Masters and Eternal masters caters to, competetive players. You will be disappointed for every return set with your mindset, you're more likely to see reprints in new settings more than you will see reprints in return blocks.
It's lazy design, and is actually terrible design, to reprint in return blocks, unless the mechanics call for it. Cavern of Souls could have found a place in EDM/SOI, but other than that, nothing else fit the setting. What reprint did we get in RTR? Scars? How about any of the "New" Core sets? M10-M15? Oh, right, none. Heck, most of early MTG took place in Dominaria, yet every block had new, fresh cards, with minor reprints here and there.
Clearly WotC is saving the reprints to use them in the MM sets, let's assume already that they are a company, and want to be profitable.
Regarding this set, i actually love it, and i'm very optimistic about next rotation.
And quit whining about CoCo, i bought a playset at $10 because it qas only a decent rare and now is breaking Standard, nah, there will ALWAYS be powerful cards that define a format, but then they rotate and in comes other powerful cards, that's how magic works.
I wasn't playing magic for the orig Innistrad but from what I gather, it was pretty sweet. You had really flavorful cards in sweet decks.
Instead, all SOI block seams to have done is provide a couple creatures for a pre SOI block spell(coco). It's pretty sad when Humans are the fastest and at the same time, best aggro deck. Humans! Not Vamps, werewolves, or zombies(didn't include spirits because they're tempo, not aggro). Maybe once Coco rotates it will feel more innistrad-y but right now, it just feels like a continuation of rally standard where it's just jam 3 colors, play coco, and win. No flavorful decks.
If Spirits or B/W Angel Control can prove to beat back the Bant beast, then I will happily admit I was wrong but Wizards needs to man up and ban Coco if the PT Day 2 meta looks anything like recent SSG events.
There are so many wrong statements and preconceived notions in this comment that it's hard to even begin addressing them. I'll just recommend that you watch the Pro Tour recap and see for yourself how much impact SOI/EMN flavor and cards have. We had a Liliana-Avacyn deck facing Emrakul in the finals, for crying out loud. CoCo was only 25% of the top 8 and wasn't an overpowered/unbeatable deck at all.
The only reason the sets are disappointing is that WoTC definitely didn't listen to fans. The sets are fun and I'm personally having a blast trying to build delirium and spirits, but once the rotation hits hardly anything is going to be modern playable at this rate. People need fetch lands, cavern of souls, snapcasters, etc and fully deserve to get them through reprintings in return sets. The fact that the company publishing the sets is outright ignoring what players want is painful.
Players have been asking for reprints basically since the beginning of MTG. Why do they need to start listening now? It's not like they've had 20+ years of success or anything.
And no, "people" don't need those cards, competetive players do. That's what Modern Masters and Eternal masters caters to, competetive players. You will be disappointed for every return set with your mindset, you're more likely to see reprints in new settings more than you will see reprints in return blocks.
It's lazy design, and is actually terrible design, to reprint in return blocks, unless the mechanics call for it. Cavern of Souls could have found a place in EDM/SOI, but other than that, nothing else fit the setting. What reprint did we get in RTR? Scars? How about any of the "New" Core sets? M10-M15? Oh, right, none. Heck, most of early MTG took place in Dominaria, yet every block had new, fresh cards, with minor reprints here and there.
Perhaps because Wizards specifically stated that with the change to the 2-sets-a-block structure we'd see more reprints. But that's none of my business.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
To the morons saying we have no reason to expect to get good reprints in return blocks.... yeah, the best land cycle in Modern DEFINITELY didn't get reprinted in the appropriate return block. Wow, don't specifically cite rtr block.
As far as SOI block, it bores me in a way that INN block didn't, but I got my TiTi cheap, so I don't care
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
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Instead, all SOI block seams to have done is provide a couple creatures for a pre SOI block spell(coco). It's pretty sad when Humans are the fastest and at the same time, best aggro deck. Humans! Not Vamps, werewolves, or zombies(didn't include spirits because they're tempo, not aggro). Maybe once Coco rotates it will feel more innistrad-y but right now, it just feels like a continuation of rally standard where it's just jam 3 colors, play coco, and win. No flavorful decks.
If Spirits or B/W Angel Control can prove to beat back the Bant beast, then I will happily admit I was wrong but Wizards needs to man up and ban Coco if the PT Day 2 meta looks anything like recent SSG events.
I get the don't want to ban cards in standard but seriously wizards...green cards cheating cards into play is almost always too OP in standard. You banned birthing pod in modern then in the next set, print the same effect.
No:
Enemy fetches
Goblin Guide
Bloodghast
Oracle of Mul Daya
Celestial Colonnade
Creeping Tar Pit
Raging Ravine
Stoneforge Mystic
Inquisition of Kozilek
Liliana of the Veil
Snapcaster Mage
Cavern of Souls
Craterhoof Behemoth
Just seems odd to me. Especially given their comments about getting rid of core sets and moving to a 2-set block system.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Mystic would have been really cool since the level of equipment is way lowere than last time she was in standard, though it seams kaladesh may be upping that power level.
I agree with not reprinting enemy fetches since we just got done with 4 color decks and people were sick of fetches. Prolly will be another year or two to let people forget how much of a pain they can be since they are a major selling point to any set.
Craterhoof would have been safe to reprint since he would basically be unplayable right now. Elves can't compete with humans and no other deck could possibly use him for that mana cost.
I think a reprint of Huntmaster and Mayor of whatever(the guy that was the werewolf lord) would have made total sense.
Imo the SOI block is one of the BEST blocks we have seen in a while.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
SOI would have been better with more reprints from the original block though
What I didn't really care for was the eldrazi twist in the storyline where the gate watch has to save everbody again. Not a fan of the gatewatch. I think it's probably because every member very specifically represents a different color which reminds me of like the power rangers or captain planet. Gatewatch be corny imo.
I will say, if you look at the first Innistrad and you look at the new set, tribes were not treated with the same amount of attention as in the old sets. Maybe it feels that way because they had 3 sets to do it across. I mean all it would have taken to make zombies just a little better would have been to reprint something like gravecrawler or even diregraf ghoul.
Overall I liked the block and I think standard will be really fun again once Dragons and Origins rotates. The only drawback in my mind is that it didn't totally scream Innistrad.
As for the set in general, I don't think calling it a failure is fair. BFZ was a failure; SOI is merely mediocre.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I really don't like this argument. I see it all the time and it literally makes my blood boil. What reprints did we see in RTR? Scars? What Ravnica and Mirrodin reprints made it into core sets? None. So keep banging this "failure" drum based on some made up perception that you are supposed to see reprints of good cards in return sets. It doesn't happen. It may happen now without cores, but of the cards you listed, you'll see those in the premier non-block sets like Modern Masters.
If you think the flavor is bad, how is reprinting a card from a past set flavorful? Ecspecially planeswalkers and some of the cards that played with the mechanics of those blocks like Snapcaster mage. Literally makes zero sense.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I would have liked to see them just leave Emrakul and have her return later just as more of an "I'm still around" type of thing
Look at it this way. What's the point of sets like Modern Masters and Eternal Masters if you reprint iconic (strong) cards from the previous block? Reprints only appeal to veteran players. New players could care less about a card from a previous set showing up in a return set. Save the reprints for the reprint sets, and keep the new sets full of fresh, new ideas. Will there be a time that a reprint makes sense in a return block? Absolutely, but most of INN's cards had no place in the current set. Same with BFZ, save for a few of the Landfall ZEN cards, but those didn't mesh well with the BFZ power level.
Again, I want reprints in general; I don't care if they're in plane or not. The problem with only including them in reprint sets is that the reprint sets are limited print runs that don't move the needle much. Now, if Wizards would actually print to demand, this would be less of an issue.
New players will eventually move to older formats, and they will be happy with their THS Thoughtseize, M15 Chord of Calling, and KTK Polluted Delta when they do.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Youtube Channel
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
anyone who thinks the concept on this block was bad, do yourself a favor and read some HP lovecraft. this block was the perfect homage to so many of his stories. i cannot imagine it being any more well executed.
yes coco seems to definitely have been a mistake at this point. but aside from that elephant in the room, PT EMN seemed to have a lot of fresh interesting decks coming to the table.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Players have been asking for reprints basically since the beginning of MTG. Why do they need to start listening now? It's not like they've had 20+ years of success or anything.
And no, "people" don't need those cards, competetive players do. That's what Modern Masters and Eternal masters caters to, competetive players. You will be disappointed for every return set with your mindset, you're more likely to see reprints in new settings more than you will see reprints in return blocks.
It's lazy design, and is actually terrible design, to reprint in return blocks, unless the mechanics call for it. Cavern of Souls could have found a place in EDM/SOI, but other than that, nothing else fit the setting. What reprint did we get in RTR? Scars? How about any of the "New" Core sets? M10-M15? Oh, right, none. Heck, most of early MTG took place in Dominaria, yet every block had new, fresh cards, with minor reprints here and there.
Regarding this set, i actually love it, and i'm very optimistic about next rotation.
And quit whining about CoCo, i bought a playset at $10 because it qas only a decent rare and now is breaking Standard, nah, there will ALWAYS be powerful cards that define a format, but then they rotate and in comes other powerful cards, that's how magic works.
There are so many wrong statements and preconceived notions in this comment that it's hard to even begin addressing them. I'll just recommend that you watch the Pro Tour recap and see for yourself how much impact SOI/EMN flavor and cards have. We had a Liliana-Avacyn deck facing Emrakul in the finals, for crying out loud. CoCo was only 25% of the top 8 and wasn't an overpowered/unbeatable deck at all.
Perhaps because Wizards specifically stated that with the change to the 2-sets-a-block structure we'd see more reprints. But that's none of my business.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
As far as SOI block, it bores me in a way that INN block didn't, but I got my TiTi cheap, so I don't care