To be fair, Gather the Pack was printed in Origins and SOI was a full block away. Like with Collected Company and all the support it got in SOI, they figured it would only be an issue for 3-6 months then it would rotate out. Also, they might not have had a full idea of the extent of the graveyard manipulation they were going to do by the time Origins was finalized as a set, since that was approximately a full year out.
It totally makes sense that Green would be part of the graveyard support, since Delirium is primarily a mechanic for BG And, honestly, Grapple with the Past only gets 2 types of cards - creature and lands, both of which are green's pie. Green has been doing this sort of thing since... Regrowth, Sylvan Library, Natural Selection and a few other card draws that Green had back in Alpha.
I honestly wish we'd see blue versions of these cards that said 'Instant or Sorcery' instead of creature, but honestly a Collected Company that got Instants or Sorceries with CMC 3 or less would probably be considered broken by wizard's standards.
I'm kind of hoping that this whole thing will solve itself once they are able to have the new block format entirely, without any of the old holdovers of Khans and Origins. Kaladesh seems like the plane to do it in. Maybe they introduced so many strong cards in W and G to help offset the strong cards in RU and B in Kaladesh. I am really hoping they are able to start exploring other areas of the color pies, of red and blue particularly.
It totally makes sense that Green would be part of the graveyard support, since Delirium is primarily a mechanic for BG And, honestly, Grapple with the Past only gets 2 types of cards - creature and lands, both of which are green's pie. Green has been doing this sort of thing since... Regrowth, Sylvan Library, Natural Selection and a few other card draws that Green had back in Alpha.
The issue isn't with color pie, so much as power level. Green got all the best draw fixing, and the next best stuff isn't even close. As you correctly point out, delirium is a BG mechanic, and of the 3 different graveyard enablers seeing play in BGx delirium decks, all 3 of them are green. Black didn't get any tools that come close to competing with vessel of nascency, grapple with the past, or gather the pack. Hell, blacks notable delirium enabler from the previous set was just color shifted to green and made strictly better in the transition.
I honestly wish we'd see blue versions of these cards that said 'Instant or Sorcery' instead of creature, but honestly a Collected Company that got Instants or Sorceries with CMC 3 or less would probably be considered broken by wizard's standards.
this is the real problem. Wizards keeps printing and pushing effects in green, while not printing or not pushing the comparable effects in other colors.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
The gist seems to be that they still wanted red aggro to be viable, but underestimated Collected Company decks pushing it out of the metagame. They also were experimenting with putting power into non-aggro aspects of red to try to make it more diverse. Probably the two most important sentences:
"This format was a learning experience for us, and I think we have a better idea of how much and where to deploy cards for aggressive red decks in the future, which you will see as soon as Kaladesh. I don't know if they will immediately return as Pro Tour–winning decklists, but I am overall very happy with the additional space that red has claimed in the past year, and I think the color has a lot more interesting things to do in the future."
The gist seems to be that they still wanted red aggro to be viable, but underestimated Collected Company decks pushing it out of the metagame. They also were experimenting with putting power into non-aggro aspects of red to try to make it more diverse. Probably the two most important sentences:
"This format was a learning experience for us, and I think we have a better idea of how much and where to deploy cards for aggressive red decks in the future, which you will see as soon as Kaladesh. I don't know if they will immediately return as Pro Tour–winning decklists, but I am overall very happy with the additional space that red has claimed in the past year, and I think the color has a lot more interesting things to do in the future."
Nice to see them at least acknowledge that it is a problem.
The gist seems to be that they still wanted red aggro to be viable, but underestimated Collected Company decks pushing it out of the metagame. They also were experimenting with putting power into non-aggro aspects of red to try to make it more diverse. Probably the two most important sentences:
"This format was a learning experience for us, and I think we have a better idea of how much and where to deploy cards for aggressive red decks in the future, which you will see as soon as Kaladesh. I don't know if they will immediately return as Pro Tour–winning decklists, but I am overall very happy with the additional space that red has claimed in the past year, and I think the color has a lot more interesting things to do in the future."
so I actually see this as a kind of troubling message they are sending to be honest. They may have 'wanted' red aggro to be viable, and may have overlooked CoCo, but then why even say "I don't know if they will immediately return as pro tour winning decklists" ? Because CoCo is rotating, so if they 'expected' Aggro to compete, then why wouldn't it return to tier one when the biggest deterrence rotates? I know they can't predict the future, so they cant say red WILL return to tier one, but you cant say that for anything UNLESS it's really pushed. I think they may have tipped their hand here, and told us straight out that Kaladesh will be more of the same from red that we have been seeing. They said they thought red would be able to compete, and now admit they were wrong, but then go on to tell us how uncertain they are about red returning to glory in Kaladesh. You may think I'm reading too deep into things, but wording actually does matter. Wording is the entire basis of advertising and has come down to a science. Their 'wording' tells me that red will have a lot of midrange to high casting stuff and just enough low costing to replace the cards rotating
Well, I do agree giving red more things than just good burn and hasty creatures is good. The red dragons of late have been the best example IMO of good bigger red creatures. Started with Thundermaw, then stormbreath, and finally thunderbreak. Bedlam Reveler is prolly the type creatures they want to experiment with, basically saying part of red's place is rummaging, discarding then drawing. If they can add a couple more good madness outlets(or one insanely good one), there's a great red deck in the near future for sure. Being able to consistently cast fiery temper is huge.
That said, red has always been the gate keeper of standard(and even modern...legacy...not so much). If something got to dominant but slow, red would punish them for it except now, red has horrible instant speed burn. Yeah the u/r burn deck is a thing but it's very vulnerable to alot more than tradition burn is(basically your thermo alchemist cannot die). Compare the current red burn with the deck that played in PT Origins.
I think if a red aggro deck will exist, some of the vamps printed are pretty scary. Throw in a lightning strike to go along with fury blade and it could be trouble. All in all, I think they've recognized their mistake and realize how important having all the colors be viable, not just 3.
The question I ask is: Since they hate draw go decks, I don't think we'll be seeing mana leak reprinted any time soon, so what does blue get? Really good card draw? Reprint of serum visions(or dare I say ponder or preordain...still banned in modern even if legal in standard). Kaladesh seems a very Izzet type plane so I think we might see a reprint of Thirst for Knowledge(or a slightly weaker version) since artifacts look to be the other major theme.
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It totally makes sense that Green would be part of the graveyard support, since Delirium is primarily a mechanic for BG And, honestly, Grapple with the Past only gets 2 types of cards - creature and lands, both of which are green's pie. Green has been doing this sort of thing since... Regrowth, Sylvan Library, Natural Selection and a few other card draws that Green had back in Alpha.
I honestly wish we'd see blue versions of these cards that said 'Instant or Sorcery' instead of creature, but honestly a Collected Company that got Instants or Sorceries with CMC 3 or less would probably be considered broken by wizard's standards.
The issue isn't with color pie, so much as power level. Green got all the best draw fixing, and the next best stuff isn't even close. As you correctly point out, delirium is a BG mechanic, and of the 3 different graveyard enablers seeing play in BGx delirium decks, all 3 of them are green. Black didn't get any tools that come close to competing with vessel of nascency, grapple with the past, or gather the pack. Hell, blacks notable delirium enabler from the previous set was just color shifted to green and made strictly better in the transition.
this is the real problem. Wizards keeps printing and pushing effects in green, while not printing or not pushing the comparable effects in other colors.
- Manite
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/standard-diversity-2016-08-12
The gist seems to be that they still wanted red aggro to be viable, but underestimated Collected Company decks pushing it out of the metagame. They also were experimenting with putting power into non-aggro aspects of red to try to make it more diverse. Probably the two most important sentences:
"This format was a learning experience for us, and I think we have a better idea of how much and where to deploy cards for aggressive red decks in the future, which you will see as soon as Kaladesh. I don't know if they will immediately return as Pro Tour–winning decklists, but I am overall very happy with the additional space that red has claimed in the past year, and I think the color has a lot more interesting things to do in the future."
Nice to see them at least acknowledge that it is a problem.
URU/R TempoRU
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-counterburn-26-10-13-1/
Standard:
RBB/R MadnessBR
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-07-16-imI-br-vampires/
Caleb Durward:
so I actually see this as a kind of troubling message they are sending to be honest. They may have 'wanted' red aggro to be viable, and may have overlooked CoCo, but then why even say "I don't know if they will immediately return as pro tour winning decklists" ? Because CoCo is rotating, so if they 'expected' Aggro to compete, then why wouldn't it return to tier one when the biggest deterrence rotates? I know they can't predict the future, so they cant say red WILL return to tier one, but you cant say that for anything UNLESS it's really pushed. I think they may have tipped their hand here, and told us straight out that Kaladesh will be more of the same from red that we have been seeing. They said they thought red would be able to compete, and now admit they were wrong, but then go on to tell us how uncertain they are about red returning to glory in Kaladesh. You may think I'm reading too deep into things, but wording actually does matter. Wording is the entire basis of advertising and has come down to a science. Their 'wording' tells me that red will have a lot of midrange to high casting stuff and just enough low costing to replace the cards rotating
That said, red has always been the gate keeper of standard(and even modern...legacy...not so much). If something got to dominant but slow, red would punish them for it except now, red has horrible instant speed burn. Yeah the u/r burn deck is a thing but it's very vulnerable to alot more than tradition burn is(basically your thermo alchemist cannot die). Compare the current red burn with the deck that played in PT Origins.
I think if a red aggro deck will exist, some of the vamps printed are pretty scary. Throw in a lightning strike to go along with fury blade and it could be trouble. All in all, I think they've recognized their mistake and realize how important having all the colors be viable, not just 3.
The question I ask is: Since they hate draw go decks, I don't think we'll be seeing mana leak reprinted any time soon, so what does blue get? Really good card draw? Reprint of serum visions(or dare I say ponder or preordain...still banned in modern even if legal in standard). Kaladesh seems a very Izzet type plane so I think we might see a reprint of Thirst for Knowledge(or a slightly weaker version) since artifacts look to be the other major theme.