so i was yesterday on local standard tournament first time after short break of few months...i played 4 rounds and all of my opponensts were playing gideons and 2 of them had nissa also...when i saw other decks i found it rly boring.
I was borrowed b/w control from friend cause i always play something like that...and the only reason why i didnt have 4 gideons is that fiend of mine was playing them in g/w aggro.
meta was something like this...
1x g/w humans
1x g/w tokens
2x mono white aggro
2x jeskai midrange(he also had gideons)
1x mono red eldrazi
1x elfs
1x aristocrats
1x b/w control(i was playing this)
1x some kind of midrange eldrazi(i was not paying attention)
so 7 decks were playing gideons...
So it sounds like you should be playing some planeswalker hate eh? Don't complain about the state of the meta game if you aren't willing to brew up something to beat it.
Sylvan Advocate isn't even a great card it is medium at best. The real reason it sees play is because of the poor quality of other 2 drops. Same goes for Tireless Tracker. Not much brewing you can do when the format is so powered down already.
Then on the other side you have Avacyn and Ulamog. Things right now are either under par or blow outs.
If you think this is boring well youre not brewing correctly.
We have soul of the harvest and gaeas revenge in standard and they are actual threats this time.
If you think this is boring well youre not brewing correctly.
We have soul of the harvest and gaeas revenge in standard and they are actual threats this time.
Wait? Make your own decks?! That's just crazy talk...
If you think this is boring well youre not brewing correctly.
We have soul of the harvest and gaeas revenge in standard and they are actual threats this time.
Wait? Make your own decks?! That's just crazy talk...
I know right? Everyone is obsessed with netdecks I grab a random pile of cards off my desk and go undefeated at my fnm.
i was gonna defend this standard, but i saw the scg open and it can be described in three words: bant, humans, tokens. everyone plays the same deck, and the same cards are repeated in lots of deck, but let's not forget that every standard is like that. now, mono blue prison and g/w aggro flash proves that there's room to build yet. i like the standard because it's slower that KoT standard, or BfZ standard, but it's true, it's getting kinda blurry
i think that pros and people in general are getting lazy. saffron olive has been making budget decks and hitting leagues getting great results, 5-0 this week with a great aurora deck. i think there's room for brew but no one is doing it
i think that pros and people in general are getting lazy. saffron olive has been making budget decks and hitting leagues getting great results, 5-0 this week with a great aurora deck. i think there's room for brew but no one is doing it
Great Aurora goes 5-0 in modo league. GW tokens goes 15-0 at the swiss portion of GP. maybe you should put more weight to these results and also start respecting the pros. they know what works and what doesn't.
The point is just being made that the format is only stale because people are letting it. There are a ton of brews that can compete, and no, they may not be the absolute best deck, but going 5-0 in MODO is still pretty good when he went up against decks like Naya Midrange, GW Tokens, Jund Midrange, which are three great decks. The week before he brewed a UW Thopter Spy Network deck that went 4-1 against Seasons Past, Naya Superfriends, and Mono-W Humans. Or the UR flyers list that didnt run Chandra and placed 19th at GP Minneapolis.
There are plenty of decks that can be brewed and they will do just fine. The standard is only "stale" because people are letting it be stale and not trying to brew anything. I personally think the bigger difference between FNM and GPs isnt the decks power levels, its the players skill levels. Sure GW Tokens may be an amazingly powerful deck, so is Bant Humans, but both of them can be beat, and there is TONs of room to brew left in standard.
Wasnt it just like a month ago when there was a thread saying Bant CoCo is OP and the T0 deck of standard and the format was already solved? Then what happened, someone brewed a brand new GW Tokens.
The point is just being made that the format is only stale because people are letting it. There are a ton of brews that can compete, and no, they may not be the absolute best deck, but going 5-0 in MODO is still pretty good when he went up against decks like Naya Midrange, GW Tokens, Jund Midrange, which are three great decks. The week before he brewed a UW Thopter Spy Network deck that went 4-1 against Seasons Past, Naya Superfriends, and Mono-W Humans. Or the UR flyers list that didnt run Chandra and placed 19th at GP Minneapolis.
There are plenty of decks that can be brewed and they will do just fine. The standard is only "stale" because people are letting it be stale and not trying to brew anything. I personally think the bigger difference between FNM and GPs isnt the decks power levels, its the players skill levels. Sure GW Tokens may be an amazingly powerful deck, so is Bant Humans, but both of them can be beat, and there is TONs of room to brew left in standard.
Wasnt it just like a month ago when there was a thread saying Bant CoCo is OP and the T0 deck of standard and the format was already solved? Then what happened, someone brewed a brand new GW Tokens.
I never said this standard is boring. I'm having fun playing my own bad deck at our FNM and can even go 4-0 with it, but doing fine at my lgs doesn't change the big picture. the fact remains that GW tokens is the best deck of the format and it's not particularly close. the deck is impossible to hate, you can only try to make it a slightly favourable MU with heavy concessions against the rest of the field (4c rites if the exception, but here again it is hated by the rest of the meta). another fact is that white especially has way too much power compared to red and blue at the moment.
i think that pros and people in general are getting lazy. saffron olive has been making budget decks and hitting leagues getting great results, 5-0 this week with a great aurora deck. i think there's room for brew but no one is doing it
He plays Standard 2 mans. Those tend to have pretty low competition.
One of his opponents discarded Transgress the Mind, which is like...the best card against him. It's also a deck that people don't know how to play against the first time they see it.
I'm not trying to downplay his skill or the deck, but when you run up against a lot of jank (Accursed Control?), slightly better constructed jank tends to do well.
Brews function on the axis of unknown information. You don't know how to play against it. What lines are best to take. How to sideboard if you have anything in your sideboard for it to begin with. Take that brew 2 weeks later and I'll guarantee your results will take a steep dive over time. As people learn how to play against you.
If you are the a good jack of all trades pilot and you show up with a different brew every week. You will probably do well. Want to invest hundreds of dollars every week to continue that trend go ahead. Or you could just build a teir 1 deck, master it, and come out with a higher EV.
Top 3 decks right now is Bant CoCo, humans, and GW tokens. All 3 of these decks share the same cards. Maybe Eldrich Moon will bring the power level up.
Oh look it's the thread about Standard that gets posted about every Standard approximately two or three months after each set release. The last expansion came out 2+ months ago so the Top 8 (or 4) of the format is effectively solved and becoming stale as everyone scrambles to copy the next Top 8 list from the latest GP? Color me surprised. It's hard for any Standard not to get stale eventually when as soon as a deck piloted by a better player somewhere starts showing up with any consistency all the FNM heroes start playing it. In the month or two leading up to the next Standard set, very rarely does it not come down to having any more than 2-3 decks that see more play than any others despite other options existing.
Oh look it's the thread about Standard that gets posted about every Standard approximately two or three months after each set release. The last expansion came out 2+ months ago so the Top 8 (or 4) of the format is effectively solved and becoming stale as everyone scrambles to copy the next Top 8 list from the latest GP? Color me surprised. It's hard for any Standard not to get stale eventually when as soon as a deck piloted by a better player somewhere starts showing up with any consistency all the FNM heroes start playing it. In the month or two leading up to the next Standard set, very rarely does it not come down to having any more than 2-3 decks that see more play than any others despite other options existing.
this is very true, although I think it's fair criticism to say that power level of different colours hasn't been this skewed lately. Hopefully Eldritch Moon will deliver.
Oh look it's the thread about Standard that gets posted about every Standard approximately two or three months after each set release. The last expansion came out 2+ months ago so the Top 8 (or 4) of the format is effectively solved and becoming stale as everyone scrambles to copy the next Top 8 list from the latest GP? Color me surprised. It's hard for any Standard not to get stale eventually when as soon as a deck piloted by a better player somewhere starts showing up with any consistency all the FNM heroes start playing it. In the month or two leading up to the next Standard set, very rarely does it not come down to having any more than 2-3 decks that see more play than any others despite other options existing.
I think you said it the best. People will always complain about standard a few months in
There's just not enough interaction right now. Whoever curves out better wins.
Counterspells have been narrow and/or expensive for years now. In this format, discard has the same problem, as does most of the removal which doesn't give up some form of CA. Compounding that is the tendency for more and more efficient cards to be printed which get value as soon as they resolve, while also improving board position. Removal is not an effective answer to such cards even when the removal is decent.
Going wide in front of planeswalkers is also difficult to interact with. You probably want mass removal to deal with an opponent who can pump out multiple creatures every turn, but it's probably a good idea to have something that can attack on the board if you want to interact with planeswalkers without giving up value. The mass removal is also less effective/efficient than it usually is, with the exception of radiant flames.
Removing control means you can't print combos that can actually outrace aggro either. Plus aggro is faster now anyway. Has there been another format with this many 2 power for 1 mana cards printed?
Things have been heading towards this format for a long time now. I suspect r+d is very happy with it. Make guys, turn sideways, shake hands. Their market research told them 15 years ago that your opponent disrupting your game isn't fun, and they took it very seriously. It's a money making enterprise, and this development path is selling more packs than ever before I hear.
Oh, and yeah, I'm aware that people seem to feel that the current crop of removal is very powerful. I guess my perspective is a little different, but even if it is powerful, it really doesn't change the fact that 1 for 1 removal on threats that got some value as soon as they resolved is a losing proposition.
I fully agree eith the last comment when saying that disruption is not fun.
We have to think that kids nowadays don't deal with frustration the same way that kids did 15 years ago. Now they have an infinite universe of games which are rewarding so why spend time playing a game that make them feel defeated and frustrated? They don't identify the weakness and work to get it fixed, if they feel frustrated they just go and play some other game that don't make them feel that way.
And it's an obvious decision for an enterprice that wants to make money first than anything. Blue will never be a strong color ever again except maybe for milling or some kind of akward and inneficient card draw
I will go on record saying the total opposite. This standard is more interesting then ever.
We have many different decks that are competitive. Many different archetypes even.
Think about it, when was the last standard that had like 8 different competitive decks consistently seeing play at big tournaments? multiple variations of humans, CoCo decks, G/W tokens, different variations of control (W/B, Grixis, Esper), Seasons past, B/R w/ goblin darkdwellers, U/R builds... there is more now than ever.
Did you play back when standard was called type 2, or block even? The Mercedean Masques block was the worst. You either played blue, or you played blue. Entire tournaments were rising waters versus rising waters versus cowardice. After that, you either played Fires of Yavimaya, or you played 5 color collective restraint. There was NO variety. That is what I would call incredibly boring.
There may be other deck types but for those that do Pptqs and still grind g/w color combination is much stronger than the other colors atm. With spoilers starting on Monday , I'm hoping things balance out.
If you do fnm then yes there's tons of decks to chose from.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I think Coco with reflector mage are the biggest problems with standard right now. Those two cards make it so playing ANY strategy involving creature that is not super efficient is unplayable. It doesn't help that Coco is clearly a card that is too powerful for standard.
The meta breaks down as followed: Coco variants (humans being the best), w/r humans (the best combination, as shown by Tom Ross, yet again) and everything else. B/W control sucks. People need to stop talking about that deck. Sure, Seth Manfield is some kind of B/W God, but no one else can get that deck to any decent finish. It's not a good deck.
Standard has moved into this place where basically creatures are just too good at what they do and playing anything but that is a mistake.
It's not the worst standard (T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Packrat was the worst since Caw-Blade), but it's pretty dull to run into the exact same deck over and over and over.
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Sylvan Advocate isn't even a great card it is medium at best. The real reason it sees play is because of the poor quality of other 2 drops. Same goes for Tireless Tracker. Not much brewing you can do when the format is so powered down already.
Then on the other side you have Avacyn and Ulamog. Things right now are either under par or blow outs.
We have soul of the harvest and gaeas revenge in standard and they are actual threats this time.
But I wasnt joking. Jund man, its crazy.
I'm having fun playing my "random" concoctions
That is all well and good at your LGS and FNM.
Great Aurora goes 5-0 in modo league. GW tokens goes 15-0 at the swiss portion of GP. maybe you should put more weight to these results and also start respecting the pros. they know what works and what doesn't.
Youtube Channel
There are plenty of decks that can be brewed and they will do just fine. The standard is only "stale" because people are letting it be stale and not trying to brew anything. I personally think the bigger difference between FNM and GPs isnt the decks power levels, its the players skill levels. Sure GW Tokens may be an amazingly powerful deck, so is Bant Humans, but both of them can be beat, and there is TONs of room to brew left in standard.
Wasnt it just like a month ago when there was a thread saying Bant CoCo is OP and the T0 deck of standard and the format was already solved? Then what happened, someone brewed a brand new GW Tokens.
I never said this standard is boring. I'm having fun playing my own bad deck at our FNM and can even go 4-0 with it, but doing fine at my lgs doesn't change the big picture. the fact remains that GW tokens is the best deck of the format and it's not particularly close. the deck is impossible to hate, you can only try to make it a slightly favourable MU with heavy concessions against the rest of the field (4c rites if the exception, but here again it is hated by the rest of the meta). another fact is that white especially has way too much power compared to red and blue at the moment.
Youtube Channel
He plays Standard 2 mans. Those tend to have pretty low competition.
One of his opponents discarded Transgress the Mind, which is like...the best card against him. It's also a deck that people don't know how to play against the first time they see it.
I'm not trying to downplay his skill or the deck, but when you run up against a lot of jank (Accursed Control?), slightly better constructed jank tends to do well.
If you are the a good jack of all trades pilot and you show up with a different brew every week. You will probably do well. Want to invest hundreds of dollars every week to continue that trend go ahead. Or you could just build a teir 1 deck, master it, and come out with a higher EV.
Top 3 decks right now is Bant CoCo, humans, and GW tokens. All 3 of these decks share the same cards. Maybe Eldrich Moon will bring the power level up.
(Also known as Xenphire)
this is very true, although I think it's fair criticism to say that power level of different colours hasn't been this skewed lately. Hopefully Eldritch Moon will deliver.
Youtube Channel
I think you said it the best. People will always complain about standard a few months in
Counterspells have been narrow and/or expensive for years now. In this format, discard has the same problem, as does most of the removal which doesn't give up some form of CA. Compounding that is the tendency for more and more efficient cards to be printed which get value as soon as they resolve, while also improving board position. Removal is not an effective answer to such cards even when the removal is decent.
Going wide in front of planeswalkers is also difficult to interact with. You probably want mass removal to deal with an opponent who can pump out multiple creatures every turn, but it's probably a good idea to have something that can attack on the board if you want to interact with planeswalkers without giving up value. The mass removal is also less effective/efficient than it usually is, with the exception of radiant flames.
Removing control means you can't print combos that can actually outrace aggro either. Plus aggro is faster now anyway. Has there been another format with this many 2 power for 1 mana cards printed?
Things have been heading towards this format for a long time now. I suspect r+d is very happy with it. Make guys, turn sideways, shake hands. Their market research told them 15 years ago that your opponent disrupting your game isn't fun, and they took it very seriously. It's a money making enterprise, and this development path is selling more packs than ever before I hear.
Oh, and yeah, I'm aware that people seem to feel that the current crop of removal is very powerful. I guess my perspective is a little different, but even if it is powerful, it really doesn't change the fact that 1 for 1 removal on threats that got some value as soon as they resolved is a losing proposition.
We have to think that kids nowadays don't deal with frustration the same way that kids did 15 years ago. Now they have an infinite universe of games which are rewarding so why spend time playing a game that make them feel defeated and frustrated? They don't identify the weakness and work to get it fixed, if they feel frustrated they just go and play some other game that don't make them feel that way.
And it's an obvious decision for an enterprice that wants to make money first than anything. Blue will never be a strong color ever again except maybe for milling or some kind of akward and inneficient card draw
I'd take almost any standard over that, few exceptions. At least this deck has a few mono, 2 and 3 colour decks around
We have many different decks that are competitive. Many different archetypes even.
Think about it, when was the last standard that had like 8 different competitive decks consistently seeing play at big tournaments? multiple variations of humans, CoCo decks, G/W tokens, different variations of control (W/B, Grixis, Esper), Seasons past, B/R w/ goblin darkdwellers, U/R builds... there is more now than ever.
Did you play back when standard was called type 2, or block even? The Mercedean Masques block was the worst. You either played blue, or you played blue. Entire tournaments were rising waters versus rising waters versus cowardice. After that, you either played Fires of Yavimaya, or you played 5 color collective restraint. There was NO variety. That is what I would call incredibly boring.
If you do fnm then yes there's tons of decks to chose from.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
The meta breaks down as followed: Coco variants (humans being the best), w/r humans (the best combination, as shown by Tom Ross, yet again) and everything else. B/W control sucks. People need to stop talking about that deck. Sure, Seth Manfield is some kind of B/W God, but no one else can get that deck to any decent finish. It's not a good deck.
Standard has moved into this place where basically creatures are just too good at what they do and playing anything but that is a mistake.
It's not the worst standard (T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Packrat was the worst since Caw-Blade), but it's pretty dull to run into the exact same deck over and over and over.