So black's part of the color pie is sacrifice(creatures, life etc) and destroy effects and Red's is burn and high power/low toughness creatures. Can someone explain to me why the best removal in standard right now is all in white. Black has to go up to 3 mana to get unconditional removal with Ruinous Path, and even then, it's sorcery speed. Yes, Ultimate Price did get better with Khans rotating but the eldrazi are a big blind spot for black and Grasp of Darkness doesn't cut it.
White gets unconditional removal in Declaration in Stone at 2 mana(sorcery speed) and it exiles, as does Stasis Snare getting around indestructible.
While we're at it, why is there no good 1 and 2 mana red burn spells that can hit the player or creature. Don't get me wrong, I am not calling for a reprint of Lightning Bolt as I personally feel that should be banned in modern to allow the plethora of burn in modern to shine but in standard, I honestly don't think Lightning Strike or Searing Blood is OP(especially Searing Blood with all the 2/3s running around). With Wild Slash rotating, what does red have that can hit a creature or player? Draconic Roar(needing dragons) or R-X spells that are very inefficient at low mana.
I get it if wizards doesn't like to print cards like heroes' downfall or Lightning Bolt anymore, which I'm fine with but don't then print Declaration in Stone for white, when it's not even they're part of the color pie. I still say Path to Exile was a mistake at instant speed(and this from a soul sister player with 4x path in my deck because it's just too good not to be there). *Steps down from soapbox*
Author note: Please notethis is not a rant but an opportunity for discussion. I am not saying I am right, but that I don't understand their decision.
I think the biggest contradiction right now is the fact that they seem to want to slow down the mana ramp by getting rid of 1 cmc dorks, but they have Cryptolith Rite and Eldrazi Scions. tap + sac for 2. That's pretty insane. They're like little moxes right now...
It's not like white has seen any good removals in a long time. The current meta seems to revolve around black removals right now anyways, since they deal with the top decks better.
I think the biggest contradiction right now is the fact that they seem to want to slow down the mana ramp by getting rid of 1 cmc dorks, but they have Cryptolith Rite and Eldrazi Scions. tap + sac for 2. That's pretty insane. They're like little moxes right now...
The difference is scions and CR requires some building around and don't exactly get thrown into all Gx Midrange decks like a mana dork use to.
As I understand it, SOI was the first set built completely under the heading of a 2 set block vs 3 set and core set, so maybe Eldritch Moon will make up the slack a bit for Black and Red.
Please also note I am not saying Black or Red have no good options. Black does have good removal spells. It's just DiS just hits everything and I just don't think that's the way it should be when black can't.
Anguished unmaking I'm fine with because it bolts you. I once had an Opp Unmake a Thunderbreak Regent while two were on the field and take 9 damage.
The story is a little more grim for Red. Burn just simply is not there and their creatures simply aren't good enough. Goblin Dark Dwellers and Thunderbreak Regent are great value but are mid range/control creatures. Red is a support color, which maybe they wanted to let white aggro shine a bit but loosing wild slash and not even having a shock, let alone lightning strike in the format upsets me a bit.
Great comments guys. Would like to hear what the community thinks. While Innistrad seems more a blue black plane, with some green thrown in for werewolves, I hope red gets a really good burn spell and black reclaims its crown of creature control.
Hmmm, interesting. Reminds me of early Theros where mono blue devotion was kind of aggro. I guess it's ok if they've said we're going to try something else but just including lightning strike would be so awesome. Mono red wouldn't need to fear all the 2/3s running around.
Funny thing is, I'm a Rakdos mage(or Boros but that hasn't been a deck in forever...come on boros charm reprint LOL) so straight mono red aggro is too 1 dimensional for me but I feel there should always, in any standard environment be a shock type card at the very least. Just my opinion.
So declaration in stone is in every deck I have played against accept dark past. But beside that card I have seen way more black removal used. I agree red has gotten hosed on its removal. It forces you to jump through hoops to use it like fiery temper and lightning axe. I don't mind red going more midrange, unless they make every other color aggro at the same time. Oh right, that's exactly what has happened. The problem is the over focus on creatures recently, and then making white removal far superior to others doesn't help. Every top deck right now is "go wide" and "insert CoCo into random deck" and add avacyn if humanly possible to protect your coco creatures. I am starting to think the only real option to compete right now is either play one of those said decks, or play straight control. Midrange is dead at the moment, and therefor the "new red" is unusable. Which sucks because midrange red is what I have always played, and it desperately needs efficient burn to survive to the midrange creatures
I agree that red is in a fairly poor place right now, however, don't forget the uncounterable exquisite firecraft. Sure it's 3cmc, but 4 damage is a pretty big diff from 3 imo. Plus red has Goggles, which don't help aggro any, but really push burn hard.
Black on the other hand, I don't really see being that bad. They have awesome hand disruption, as well has some really good tools. In Standard, I'll take the 4cmc Languish and Instant Grasp of Darkness over the white equivalent of a 5 or 6 cmc wipe and sorcery DiS. DiS giving the clues isn't a tiny drawback either.
I also think that removal is not just removing what's in play, but discard and counters too. Blue has quite a few good counters, a lot exiling, a Horribly Awry, and Negate. Sure nothing is unconditional, but still REALLY good.
Also, I don't really think the color pie is that off. White has a history of exiling stuff, especially in a this for that type way.
I'm definitely a brewer, and have a new deck or two every week, but hardly any of my creature decks have had much issue with DiS. If you run a deck with few creatures, and all of them play sets, I can see it being a bit more trouble, but those decks are usually playing such powerful creatures that it'd be pretty OP without something like DiS.
Is it strong? Sure, but nowhere near as strong as people seem to say imho. Always Watching and Avacyn are what take white to the top, not DiS.
P.s. Wizards didn't want a Lightning Strike, but what about taking away the downside of Declaration in Stone by combo'ing it with Smash to Smithereens? There's your Strike, and they don't get their clue (hopefully).
I think the biggest contradiction right now is the fact that they seem to want to slow down the mana ramp by getting rid of 1 cmc dorks, but they have Cryptolith Rite and Eldrazi Scions. tap + sac for 2. That's pretty insane. They're like little moxes right now...
The issue with Elvish Mystic would not be using it to cast Ulamog on turn 9; it would be using it to cast Tireless Tracker on turn 2...
Exactly, O Ring is not OP. Path to Exile is IMO. DiS should have at least cost WW to avoid splashing it everywhere. Maybe it's because we just rotated that red and black are a little lacking(red esp) and EldritchMoon will focus on giving them more good stuff.
Also, to use a recent example, Stoke the flames is objectively better than exq firecraft. Are there situations there you have no creatures and it's 1 mana more expensive,sure but uncommon, and being an instant and having convoke is one of the reasons RDW won tournys pre Theros rotating. Ex FC is good, and not being able to counter is important, but def not one of the best of all time IMO. Best is Bolt by a mile. Exq may make #10 on a top 10.
If burn from within was an instant, i could see some use but at sorcery speed, only Avacyn and Ulamog are indestructible creatures you'll likely run into and ulamog...well, good luck killing him with that and Avacyn, unless she flashes mid combat to protect her team, you still can't cast it until 2nd main, by which point you likely already lost in combat. Not a bad spell but at sorcery speed, it's use is limited. What would have been sweet is a forked bolt type card, at instance speed that did 1 damage but removed indestructible.
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White gets unconditional removal in Declaration in Stone at 2 mana(sorcery speed) and it exiles, as does Stasis Snare getting around indestructible.
While we're at it, why is there no good 1 and 2 mana red burn spells that can hit the player or creature. Don't get me wrong, I am not calling for a reprint of Lightning Bolt as I personally feel that should be banned in modern to allow the plethora of burn in modern to shine but in standard, I honestly don't think Lightning Strike or Searing Blood is OP(especially Searing Blood with all the 2/3s running around). With Wild Slash rotating, what does red have that can hit a creature or player? Draconic Roar(needing dragons) or R-X spells that are very inefficient at low mana.
I get it if wizards doesn't like to print cards like heroes' downfall or Lightning Bolt anymore, which I'm fine with but don't then print Declaration in Stone for white, when it's not even they're part of the color pie. I still say Path to Exile was a mistake at instant speed(and this from a soul sister player with 4x path in my deck because it's just too good not to be there). *Steps down from soapbox*
Author note: Please notethis is not a rant but an opportunity for discussion. I am not saying I am right, but that I don't understand their decision.
The difference is scions and CR requires some building around and don't exactly get thrown into all Gx Midrange decks like a mana dork use to.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Please also note I am not saying Black or Red have no good options. Black does have good removal spells. It's just DiS just hits everything and I just don't think that's the way it should be when black can't.
Anguished unmaking I'm fine with because it bolts you. I once had an Opp Unmake a Thunderbreak Regent while two were on the field and take 9 damage.
The story is a little more grim for Red. Burn just simply is not there and their creatures simply aren't good enough. Goblin Dark Dwellers and Thunderbreak Regent are great value but are mid range/control creatures. Red is a support color, which maybe they wanted to let white aggro shine a bit but loosing wild slash and not even having a shock, let alone lightning strike in the format upsets me a bit.
Great comments guys. Would like to hear what the community thinks. While Innistrad seems more a blue black plane, with some green thrown in for werewolves, I hope red gets a really good burn spell and black reclaims its crown of creature control.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Funny thing is, I'm a Rakdos mage(or Boros but that hasn't been a deck in forever...come on boros charm reprint LOL) so straight mono red aggro is too 1 dimensional for me but I feel there should always, in any standard environment be a shock type card at the very least. Just my opinion.
More thoughts are welcome.
Black on the other hand, I don't really see being that bad. They have awesome hand disruption, as well has some really good tools. In Standard, I'll take the 4cmc Languish and Instant Grasp of Darkness over the white equivalent of a 5 or 6 cmc wipe and sorcery DiS. DiS giving the clues isn't a tiny drawback either.
I also think that removal is not just removing what's in play, but discard and counters too. Blue has quite a few good counters, a lot exiling, a Horribly Awry, and Negate. Sure nothing is unconditional, but still REALLY good.
Also, I don't really think the color pie is that off. White has a history of exiling stuff, especially in a this for that type way.
I'm definitely a brewer, and have a new deck or two every week, but hardly any of my creature decks have had much issue with DiS. If you run a deck with few creatures, and all of them play sets, I can see it being a bit more trouble, but those decks are usually playing such powerful creatures that it'd be pretty OP without something like DiS.
Is it strong? Sure, but nowhere near as strong as people seem to say imho. Always Watching and Avacyn are what take white to the top, not DiS.
P.s. Wizards didn't want a Lightning Strike, but what about taking away the downside of Declaration in Stone by combo'ing it with Smash to Smithereens? There's your Strike, and they don't get their clue (hopefully).
The issue with Elvish Mystic would not be using it to cast Ulamog on turn 9; it would be using it to cast Tireless Tracker on turn 2...
Also, to use a recent example, Stoke the flames is objectively better than exq firecraft. Are there situations there you have no creatures and it's 1 mana more expensive,sure but uncommon, and being an instant and having convoke is one of the reasons RDW won tournys pre Theros rotating. Ex FC is good, and not being able to counter is important, but def not one of the best of all time IMO. Best is Bolt by a mile. Exq may make #10 on a top 10.
If burn from within was an instant, i could see some use but at sorcery speed, only Avacyn and Ulamog are indestructible creatures you'll likely run into and ulamog...well, good luck killing him with that and Avacyn, unless she flashes mid combat to protect her team, you still can't cast it until 2nd main, by which point you likely already lost in combat. Not a bad spell but at sorcery speed, it's use is limited. What would have been sweet is a forked bolt type card, at instance speed that did 1 damage but removed indestructible.