Should Wotc ban Reflector Mage in Standard? This card seems to completly stop Midrange Decks from existence, because the bounce on a body is just too much to handle.
Another point would be, that noone really will lose money by that ban, because its an uncommon.
I feel like the existence of Reflector Mage is seriously opressive for the format, and if noone at the Pro Tour figures out an answer and Bant company just dominates, i feel like Wotc should really think about banning reflector mage.
The number one reason for that would be, that many people stopped playing standard in the last format, not because it was bad, but because it was too expensive. If we now get a standard format totaly dominated by a single deck what people will hate again, i feel like many players could quit standard for good and thats something wotc definitly does not want.
Theres no way Reflector Mage should be banned. Nothing this standard warrants a ban, or is even close to warranting a ban, BUT IF there was, it'd be CoCo not Reflector Mage.
Go look at the Deck Creation forums, there are tons of decks that hose Bant CoCo. They may lose to the decks that lose to CoCo, but thats what a good meta is, cyclical. Give it time for people to tweak and tune their decks to catch up.
There have been crybabies since the existence of magic and the last two standards have been some of the most polarizing I have seen in a very long time. First, there was Siege Rhino "Waaaaa, so OP, please ban, winning all the... oh.. it didn't win that many big tourneys...", then it was Jace "Omg... mind sculptor 2... standard too expensive... ban Jace". Not only is banning based on price point completely ridiculous but it would set a precedent that would end in Avacyn and other future cards getting banned. No thanks.
Now they put the power on a UNCOMMON that anyone can play in their deck and people complain that it kills midrange decks. So? Maybe it's a good thing that we've moved out of Rhino Standard and Midrange decks won't be the king of everything anymore.
I am a spike. I'll always play what's the best deck and I make no excuses for that fact. That being said, there is nothing less skill-testing and more abysmally boring than jamming midrange mirrors for 8+ rounds of magic.
I'll argue that not only is Reflector NOT too powerful, he's a wonderful breath of fresh air to clean out a VERY stale room.
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It's the spike mentality that ruins the game an stifles creative deck development. The labeling of yourself as a spike is rather narrow minded. Instead of creating and being innovative, you fall in line and follow. It's okay to play a deck like Bant CoCo in order to understand how it works, but saying it's the only deck you'll play because you are a spike is boring. It's like saying you'll only listen to 1 style of music because that one style RULEZ.
See the argument? It's childish.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Standard rotates. You cannot have a new format every 2 weeks because you want something banned. Banning doesn't fix the problem. Something new will fill that void. There will always be imbalances in the game. Get over and play within the confines of the format or break it.
Look at the other cards that have been banned in Standard, do you see what they have in common? Not being powerful, being broken in half. Is the format 70% Mage, 30% anti-Mage? I haven't played Standard in years, and I don't miss it, but last time was Caw-Blade Standard. I doubt this is nearly that bad. This is not Modern, Wizards does not go on auto-fire with the banhammer
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It is true that standard is currently not having a great amount of diversity but i don't blame reflector mage or avacyn or anything else i find it to be the fault of players and the lack of creativity if a deck had to have a level of originality to enter a tournament then we wouldn't have these problems of having one deck that is constantly winning and while i know that i'm gonna get confronted by a large number of angry players it's true the game would be a lot more fun if ech deck was an originl creation and the players couldn't hide behind a ood deck to win they would have to create there own way of winning
We are in a powered down format. That is going to have less viable options as the power of the format is consolidated into few cards. We are also going to a smaller card pool with the new 2 set blocks and rotation happening faster.
Don't like standard then don't play it. There are many different formats you can play.
You cannot make everyone happy. The great thing about Magic is there are multiple formats you can play in. If you do not like the decks in standard then simply don't play it. It will rotate every 6 months. Come back after a rotation if it becomes a rotation you like. Trying to force a ban on something just because it is good is not a fix.
The top 8 is not 80% one deck over multiple tournaments over a month or 2. Until that happens a ban should not ever be mentioned.
No, if a deck takes over a format to such a degree, perhaps FIX iT. it's what you do in business, and in any other life "thing". Stop, just stop.
I'm hoping the PT shows us that it can be beaten, and if cannot be beaten well isn't an indication that things got screwed up? You don't get to tell people/players what to do, that's not how life works.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
You don't get to tell people/players what to do, that's not how life works.
That comment gets you no where because it would also apply to yourself defeating your own point.
That bar is what WotC uses before they even consider a ban. Suggesting a ban before the Pro Tour is over after 2 weeks of a new rotation format is silly. Sadly I see it more and more in forum discussions when it isn't even close to being justified or considered.
There is no such thing as "fix it." You ban one thing and other takes over to fill the void. Then people say ban that. The cycle continues.
Bant CoCo isnt even NEAR the only deck to play. My LGS had a pretty big turnout for its Wednesday Night Standard and of 34 people, only 3 Bant CoCo decks. Only 1 Top 8'd. There is plenty of hate for it, if you dont like it, play the hate, if you dont like the hate, develop a new hate.
There are TONS of cards and deck combos that can beat CoCo, use them, find them, build them. Just because the deck you want to play gets hosed by CoCo doesnt mean it needs a ban.
Bant CoCo isnt even NEAR the only deck to play. My LGS had a pretty big turnout for its Wednesday Night Standard and of 34 people, only 3 Bant CoCo decks. Only 1 Top 8'd. There is plenty of hate for it, if you dont like it, play the hate, if you dont like the hate, develop a new hate.
There are TONS of cards and deck combos that can beat CoCo, use them, find them, build them. Just because the deck you want to play gets hosed by CoCo doesnt mean it needs a ban.
I sincerely doubt what happens at an LGS means anything. We should see how the Leagues and PT shape up to really see if the format needs fixing. Bant Company is doing well on day 1 with gigantic numbers, but we are really far from the threshold of banning.
It's the spike mentality that ruins the game an stifles creative deck development. The labeling of yourself as a spike is rather narrow minded. Instead of creating and being innovative, you fall in line and follow. It's okay to play a deck like Bant CoCo in order to understand how it works, but saying it's the only deck you'll play because you are a spike is boring. It's like saying you'll only listen to 1 style of music because that one style RULEZ.
See the argument? It's childish.
saying that spikes are anti-creative is complete BS. it just means that you suck it up and make the best of the situation you're presented with. spike derives pleasure and enjoyment from competing, and the pleasure he gains is not as much dictated by what kind of format he's actually playing. maybe that means playing RM, but more likely it means trying to next level and be ahead of the curve. the current Pro Tour is an absolute spikefest, and what do you know, not everyone plays bant coco there. you got it all wrong mate. spikes are creative. they try to come up with ways to combat the meta and adjust to it.
also, saying that banning RM (or any card for that matter) would fix standard is also complete BS. nothing would change.
Then I must be spike since I'm constantly trying to find solutions to the slew of Bant players that make up my current meta. I get what a spike is, I also get that there is a huge downside to labels. That mentality is BS imo. You are a god damn human, player. An individual first and then this, a MTG player is way last. Coming up with a solution to a deck that is quite powerful, isn't easy right? As a full time musician, I do not get to test with "talented" players nor do I thik I'd want to make that more than what it is, an enjoyable hobby. Personally, I've top 8'd PPTQ's Iq's and done testing on my own and with lgs players. The issue is as a hobby when I sit down across a "so called Spike" by label I feel they take the game that seriously, (sometimes I feel like a well timed Slap in the Face to remind them that there is another player infront of them might be in order). You look at the pros, they are smiling, and complementing each other's innovations. This...isn't a SPIKE trait.
As for Bant CoCo, yeah it's a powerful deck, that some pros have said "Yep we didn't find something that beats it consistently". Others did, thankfully there are people with the time and minds to pool together to solve (maybe solve) a problem. That is a spike, someone who doesn't just say "I'm going to play the best deck, and that;s that".
That is a cop out, not only that if that's how the world worked art, music, and the quintessential "Entrepreneur" wouldn't even be a concept.
Banning, perhaps not a ban, but an awareness that RM is makes a deck more powerful than the others. That sir, is true. As of now, there's hope that even more busted things can be done, thank god.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I still find it hard to believe your big gripe is with Reflector Mage instead of Collected Company. Yeah, they're both awesome cards, and yeah, they both make each other more powerful, but a CoCo deck would still wreck ***** without Reflector Mage, however Reflector Mage doesnt do near as much without the current Bant CoCo deck.
So Far in the Pro Tour, the decks that are doing the best, are decks that give a damn about a Reflector Mage. Seriously there are a ton of ways around it.
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Reflector Mage is not even close to being banned in standard.
Bant Company is hardly an oppressive deck. SOI standard hasn't even been around for very long. If Seige Rhino never got banned in standard, what makes you think that Reflector Mage should be after a few weeks of putting up decent results
This should be changed to if WG human/Bant company/Cutthroat Company take up 50% of the meta post PT should Collected Company be banned... cause reflector mage isn't anywhere near as OP as CoCo right now.
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Another point would be, that noone really will lose money by that ban, because its an uncommon.
I feel like the existence of Reflector Mage is seriously opressive for the format, and if noone at the Pro Tour figures out an answer and Bant company just dominates, i feel like Wotc should really think about banning reflector mage.
The number one reason for that would be, that many people stopped playing standard in the last format, not because it was bad, but because it was too expensive. If we now get a standard format totaly dominated by a single deck what people will hate again, i feel like many players could quit standard for good and thats something wotc definitly does not want.
What are your thoughts about that?
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
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Go look at the Deck Creation forums, there are tons of decks that hose Bant CoCo. They may lose to the decks that lose to CoCo, but thats what a good meta is, cyclical. Give it time for people to tweak and tune their decks to catch up.
I have to echo this sentiment.
There have been crybabies since the existence of magic and the last two standards have been some of the most polarizing I have seen in a very long time. First, there was Siege Rhino "Waaaaa, so OP, please ban, winning all the... oh.. it didn't win that many big tourneys...", then it was Jace "Omg... mind sculptor 2... standard too expensive... ban Jace". Not only is banning based on price point completely ridiculous but it would set a precedent that would end in Avacyn and other future cards getting banned. No thanks.
Now they put the power on a UNCOMMON that anyone can play in their deck and people complain that it kills midrange decks. So? Maybe it's a good thing that we've moved out of Rhino Standard and Midrange decks won't be the king of everything anymore.
I am a spike. I'll always play what's the best deck and I make no excuses for that fact. That being said, there is nothing less skill-testing and more abysmally boring than jamming midrange mirrors for 8+ rounds of magic.
I'll argue that not only is Reflector NOT too powerful, he's a wonderful breath of fresh air to clean out a VERY stale room.
GBRJundGBR
URWJeskai NahiriURW
My Legacy Deck:
URBGrixis DelverURB
My EDH Decks:
GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB
GRhys, The RedeemedW
RWArchangel AvacynRW
UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
See the argument? It's childish.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Standard rotates. You cannot have a new format every 2 weeks because you want something banned. Banning doesn't fix the problem. Something new will fill that void. There will always be imbalances in the game. Get over and play within the confines of the format or break it.
All I'm asking for is...diversity and viable decks. Is that so hard?
You know like:
Fender
Gibson
Ibanez
Jackson
Gretsch
Carvin
Give more options rather than 1-2 decks to play. It's simple, I'd like to see Bant destroyed, CoCo burned to a crisp...but that might not happen so...
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Don't like standard then don't play it. There are many different formats you can play.
Would you rather play 9 Bant CoCo mirrors? That is terrible...
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
The top 8 is not 80% one deck over multiple tournaments over a month or 2. Until that happens a ban should not ever be mentioned.
I'm hoping the PT shows us that it can be beaten, and if cannot be beaten well isn't an indication that things got screwed up? You don't get to tell people/players what to do, that's not how life works.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
That comment gets you no where because it would also apply to yourself defeating your own point.
That bar is what WotC uses before they even consider a ban. Suggesting a ban before the Pro Tour is over after 2 weeks of a new rotation format is silly. Sadly I see it more and more in forum discussions when it isn't even close to being justified or considered.
There is no such thing as "fix it." You ban one thing and other takes over to fill the void. Then people say ban that. The cycle continues.
There are TONS of cards and deck combos that can beat CoCo, use them, find them, build them. Just because the deck you want to play gets hosed by CoCo doesnt mean it needs a ban.
I sincerely doubt what happens at an LGS means anything. We should see how the Leagues and PT shape up to really see if the format needs fixing. Bant Company is doing well on day 1 with gigantic numbers, but we are really far from the threshold of banning.
saying that spikes are anti-creative is complete BS. it just means that you suck it up and make the best of the situation you're presented with. spike derives pleasure and enjoyment from competing, and the pleasure he gains is not as much dictated by what kind of format he's actually playing. maybe that means playing RM, but more likely it means trying to next level and be ahead of the curve. the current Pro Tour is an absolute spikefest, and what do you know, not everyone plays bant coco there. you got it all wrong mate. spikes are creative. they try to come up with ways to combat the meta and adjust to it.
also, saying that banning RM (or any card for that matter) would fix standard is also complete BS. nothing would change.
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As for Bant CoCo, yeah it's a powerful deck, that some pros have said "Yep we didn't find something that beats it consistently". Others did, thankfully there are people with the time and minds to pool together to solve (maybe solve) a problem. That is a spike, someone who doesn't just say "I'm going to play the best deck, and that;s that".
That is a cop out, not only that if that's how the world worked art, music, and the quintessential "Entrepreneur" wouldn't even be a concept.
Banning, perhaps not a ban, but an awareness that RM is makes a deck more powerful than the others. That sir, is true. As of now, there's hope that even more busted things can be done, thank god.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
There is a lot of shady things that go on at a PT that you will never see on camera or get reported by WotC.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Bant Company is hardly an oppressive deck. SOI standard hasn't even been around for very long. If Seige Rhino never got banned in standard, what makes you think that Reflector Mage should be after a few weeks of putting up decent results