not having a 1 mana dork is why to me this format is stale right now....
RG agro doesn't have a dork to 1 drop 3 3 drop 4 drop like other standards did.
GB rock style decks were almost always fueled by a BOP or elves of deep shadow.
this format would look alot different right now if we had a dork but with us dorkless and almost shockless along with not having a *** that costs less than 6 making control decks so much weaker than they need to be.... i'm hoping the pro tour will find new archtypes because if not this new format is going to be stale for atleast another 3 months of jace/coco #1 deck and WW.... This is why the removal of core sets seem like such a bad decision because its only going to get worse from here on out with new planes every set making reprints harder and harder meaning that we get stuck with weaker cards to not adversely affect modern.
Why should green get a 1 mana dork when blue doesn't have 2 mana counterspells anymore and red doesn't have 1 mana bolts? I think standard needs a slight power boost, because if most of the cards are of a very low power level, then the few of the cards that are good (Jace, Rhino, Company, Reflector Mage, etc.) can more easily warp the format.
we need all that.... I specifically lised
Control=*** at 4 or 5 mana
Remvoal=Shock at 1 mana
Agro=Mana Dork at 1 mana
Control could use a 2 mana counterspell. Maybe a mana leak style that is only unless you pay 2.
Stale??This format barelly began, people are still brewing so give it time
The problem is control is all but not viable with the only counterspell costing 3 and WW being able to win turn 4... We have a bad mana rock that could make control good but would only be good if we had a 1 mana draw spell to activate it..... Oh wait another thing that we don't have
This format to me right now seems about what we don't have more than we do.
no *** under 6 mana
no 1 mana dorks
no reliable mana excel for control that costs 2 mana.
no good draw (outside jace)
No counterspells that cost less than 3... (For gods sake atleast give us a essence scatter effect at 2 mana)
Stale??This format barelly began, people are still brewing so give it time
no *** under 6 mana
no 1 mana dorks
no reliable mana excel for control that costs 2 mana.
no good draw (outside jace)
No counterspells that cost less than 3... (For gods sake atleast give us a essence scatter effect at 2 mana)
Stale??This format barelly began, people are still brewing so give it time
no *** under 6 mana
no 1 mana dorks
no reliable mana excel for control that costs 2 mana.
no good draw (outside jace)
No counterspells that cost less than 3... (For gods sake atleast give us a essence scatter effect at 2 mana)
ok your right on everything but 3 and 5. The best control decks of all time were built off signets and other stuff. and as to #5 silumgar's is trash cause its a bad force spike unless your running alot of dragons which if your playing pure control you don't want that many in the whole deck usually. I do expect to see horribly awry as a 4x in some deck at the PT this week... its the only thing control decks have to not just lose on turn 4 to White weenie....
I think, mostly, people need to adapt. Every 3 toughness and lower creature was trash unless it had immediate impact thanks to Bolt, your four mana beatsticks still come down urn three, shocks would stagnate the format if they were around always, and when Wrath effects were CMC 4, every aggro deck HAD to win turn 3-4, or they held no hope. These changes are, for the most part, better for a healthy, varied, fun standard experience.
Why does control have to be blue lol, what exactly are you countering in standard? Standard is about creatures, therefore control needs removal, which blue has none of.
Stale??This format barelly began, people are still brewing so give it time
People will never stop complaining on the Internet, between pack rat, siege rhino, and now coco, people will always complain about one thing or another
I am a green player who just like playing a viable creature on turn 1. Being that Green is not going to get a Savannah lion on turn 1, we are left with Oath of Nissa (which is a a pretty good card I might add), but really no suitable 1 drop creatures. I just feel naked not having a decent presence on turn 1 as a green player. If they are not going to make a dork, at least make a playable creature that I do not have to jump through hoops for to justify me playing it.
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Stale??This format barelly began, people are still brewing so give it time
This format to me right now seems about what we don't have more than we do.
This is it exactly. Majority of the "good" creatures this standard are not playable creatures at all. The fact is you don't have any better options. Tireless Traker? Since when has a 3/2 for 3 mana with no ETB or dies trigger been good? Sylvan Advocate the same way. 2/3 for 2 mana with no ETB or dies triggers. Had it before never got played.
Fact is these creatures are being played because you have no other choice. That bar is very low right now. When the power creep does come back up even a little expect these to drop below $1 and quickly. I'm not holding on to anything that is standard playable right now because compared to history it is mostly junk. Even the highest powered cards we have right now cannot even compare to past uncommons and commons.
My Ur Fevered Visions control deck smashes on WW, and it does so using traditionally BAD cards, aka bounce.
Like people said, adapt, this is a great standard, some people just dont want to look at the cards and figure out what to use.
"My [insert random deck here] smashs the tier 1 guys." is a sentence that has no sense since you can't prove anything here or even prove that it's true.
Stale??This format barelly began, people are still brewing so give it time
This format to me right now seems about what we don't have more than we do.
This is it exactly. Majority of the "good" creatures this standard are not playable creatures at all. The fact is you don't have any better options. Tireless Traker? Since when has a 3/2 for 3 mana with no ETB or dies trigger been good? Sylvan Advocate the same way. 2/3 for 2 mana with no ETB or dies triggers. Had it before never got played.
Fact is these creatures are being played because you have no other choice. That bar is very low right now. When the power creep does come back up even a little expect these to drop below $1 and quickly. I'm not holding on to anything that is standard playable right now because compared to history it is mostly junk. Even the highest powered cards we have right now cannot even compare to past uncommons and commons.
Yeah the commons and uncommons are just trash right now
eldrazhi skyspawner - garbage
vile aggregate - useless
reflector mage - so bad it hurts
bounding krasis - not even playable in limited
consul's lieutenant - why do they print such junk
Expedition envoy - will never see play anywhere
firemantle mage - worst ally ever
nantuko husk - worst creature ever
The rares and mythics are even worse:
world breaker - horrible
dragonlord atarka - unplayable
jace, vrynns prodigy - as marshall sutcliffe and Eric Froehlich said in their podcast, he's really really bad
Nissa, vastwood seer - no comment, hurts to look at it
Dragonlord Ojutai - worst dragon ever
knight of the white orchid - worst white knight ever
Anafenza, kin-tree spirit - will never see play anywhere
Archangle avacyn - worse Serra Angel ever
Kalitas, trator of ghet - worst vampire ever
hangarback walker - worst artifact ever
Eldrazi Mimic - junk
thought-knot seer - jank
reality smasher - crap
thalia's lieutenant - worst human ever
Please think before you post mate, you couldn't be further from the truth.
Let me repeat what you just wrote again:
"Even the highest powered cards we have right now cannot even compare to past uncommons and commons."
Because of people like you who don't look at a format and figure out what cards are actually good cards like den protector and tireless tracker started out as bulk rares.
Tireless tracker is nuts and one of the best creatures in the format.
whether card XYZ is good or bad highly depends on the metagame and the cards that the format has to offer.
becuase modern has lightning bolt, electrolyze and stuff like that you won't play tireless tracker, kitchen finks fits much better there.
But in the current standard people would likely play tracker over kitchen finks, because more than half the time your finks would get exiled with no value, offering no advantage over the tracker.
This is just one example i could give, but more than half the cards i named are actually quite good in modern and other formats.
Your argument is invalid.
I think you have misread my post. Take for example Ruinous Path. Rare, sorcery speed, 1BB. The awaken does give it some flexibility but ultimately doesn't matter. It isn't the reason you are playing the card. Even the ability to take out a walker doesn't really matter either. It is not a mode often used. Now look at Murder. Same card for all intents and purpose. Murder is common and instant speed. I can find these comparisons to past cards that used to be common and uncommon effects are now rare and worst versions of those old cards.
There are a few pushed creatures. Avcyne, Kalitas and Jace are blantant examples. That is the entire problem. You have this very small pool of creatures in each color that are so far above everything else that their is no deck innovations or choices in deck building. It is like how the titans warped everything from 5-7 CMC. Didn't matter what color you were playing you skipped 5 and 7 CMC creatures and just played Titans. There was nothing even close to them in power level around their casting cost.
I'm referring to historically when you look at a creature in this format it would not have even been considered as playable in past formats. We are in a powered down standard right now. It goes in waves of power level. This is how MTG has survived this many years because it pulls back power creep. But damn you got to make commons and uncommons rare just to do so? Then, make those rares worse versions?
Not reprinting Elvish Mystic/Llanowar Elves is a mistake. Ramp decks have always been defined by their turn 1 plays. This format has some of the best top end creatures ever printed. Ramp has nothing to stablize the board at 3-4 mana w/o killing your own sources of ramp. You don't play mana dorks when you have pyroclasm in your deck. Right now there is no other way to build the deck so it fails.
I am a green player who just like playing a viable creature on turn 1. Being that Green is not going to get a Savannah lion on turn 1, we are left with Oath of Nissa (which is a a pretty good card I might add), but really no suitable 1 drop creatures. I just feel naked not having a decent presence on turn 1 as a green player. If they are not going to make a dork, at least make a playable creature that I do not have to jump through hoops for to justify me playing it.
I will just be lazy and don't search for the link, but if I remember, Wizards made a full declaration saying they DO NOT want 1 drop mana dorks anymore in standard. I am a green player player since ever and green basically used to have every damn thing, the best creatures, toolbox, recursion, even good spot removal and so on. I give zero ****s to standard since i've been playing commander for a couple years now, but mana dorks are quite powerful due to versatility, as they not only speed up early game but attack and block mid to late game.
The best thing you will get is a beastcaller savant variation (it is way better than the origins dork IMO), also they are moving to upper slots at unc/rare because this is what they believe to be balanced now.
Majority of the time a mana dork is a dead draw late game. It isn't like these guys had no downside. I cannot count the number of games where I drew my mana dork late game and lost because of it. If I had drawn any other non-land card in the deck would have made or break a game. Nope.....draw the dork and scoop em up.
I am a green player who just like playing a viable creature on turn 1. Being that Green is not going to get a Savannah lion on turn 1, we are left with Oath of Nissa (which is a a pretty good card I might add), but really no suitable 1 drop creatures. I just feel naked not having a decent presence on turn 1 as a green player. If they are not going to make a dork, at least make a playable creature that I do not have to jump through hoops for to justify me playing it.
I would take a Scythe Leopard over a Savannah Lions. Drop a land on the 2nd turn and you're attacking for 2 just like the Lion. But you can drop an Evolving Wilds, use it and get another land and attack for 3 on turn 2.
As for the overall condition of standard,OP, what exactly do you want? The power level has to go up and down or else the power creep would be out of control. If you're having trouble putting cards together to be competitive, I'm sure in a couple of weeks there will be a whole host of net decks to get you through =).
LOL at some of the ferrocity of these posts.To the OP: I agree there should be good burn in every standard season. RDW is almost always the safety valve to prevent mid range, control or ramp to dominate. Even not have wild slash is very telling. IMO, would not at al be surprised to see a lightning strike-equivalent reprint in Eldritch Moon. I would like Searing Blood even more but strike is almost as good. Bolt...no...that should never be printed again and IMO, restricted to 2x in a deck in modern.
For the 1 drop mana dork...While I love elves, and elves lost huge with the rotation of elvish mystic, I don't this this meta could handle that powerful of ramp right now. Maybe a 1 drop dork that shocks you(2 damage) each time you use it.
RG agro doesn't have a dork to 1 drop 3 3 drop 4 drop like other standards did.
GB rock style decks were almost always fueled by a BOP or elves of deep shadow.
this format would look alot different right now if we had a dork but with us dorkless and almost shockless along with not having a *** that costs less than 6 making control decks so much weaker than they need to be.... i'm hoping the pro tour will find new archtypes because if not this new format is going to be stale for atleast another 3 months of jace/coco #1 deck and WW.... This is why the removal of core sets seem like such a bad decision because its only going to get worse from here on out with new planes every set making reprints harder and harder meaning that we get stuck with weaker cards to not adversely affect modern.
we need all that.... I specifically lised
Control=*** at 4 or 5 mana
Remvoal=Shock at 1 mana
Agro=Mana Dork at 1 mana
Control could use a 2 mana counterspell. Maybe a mana leak style that is only unless you pay 2.
The problem is control is all but not viable with the only counterspell costing 3 and WW being able to win turn 4... We have a bad mana rock that could make control good but would only be good if we had a 1 mana draw spell to activate it..... Oh wait another thing that we don't have
This format to me right now seems about what we don't have more than we do.
no *** under 6 mana
no 1 mana dorks
no reliable mana excel for control that costs 2 mana.
no good draw (outside jace)
No counterspells that cost less than 3... (For gods sake atleast give us a essence scatter effect at 2 mana)
1. Planar Outburst
3. Mage-Ring Network (since when does control really need mana ramping anyways?)
4. Plenty, just not a big one like Dig Through Time.
5. Silumgar's Scorn, Clash of Wills, Negate, Horribly Awry, Invasive Surgery, Dispel.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
ok your right on everything but 3 and 5. The best control decks of all time were built off signets and other stuff. and as to #5 silumgar's is trash cause its a bad force spike unless your running alot of dragons which if your playing pure control you don't want that many in the whole deck usually. I do expect to see horribly awry as a 4x in some deck at the PT this week... its the only thing control decks have to not just lose on turn 4 to White weenie....
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People will never stop complaining on the Internet, between pack rat, siege rhino, and now coco, people will always complain about one thing or another
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Elves is completely viable as a tier 2 deck, Shaman of the Pack + Eerie Interlude and the mountain of elves we got in origins, along with coco it's totally a reasonable choice.
This is it exactly. Majority of the "good" creatures this standard are not playable creatures at all. The fact is you don't have any better options. Tireless Traker? Since when has a 3/2 for 3 mana with no ETB or dies trigger been good? Sylvan Advocate the same way. 2/3 for 2 mana with no ETB or dies triggers. Had it before never got played.
Fact is these creatures are being played because you have no other choice. That bar is very low right now. When the power creep does come back up even a little expect these to drop below $1 and quickly. I'm not holding on to anything that is standard playable right now because compared to history it is mostly junk. Even the highest powered cards we have right now cannot even compare to past uncommons and commons.
And I don't see how the PT will change it.
WW tier 1 is so sad, the powercreep is so bad that Anthem is playable.
Like people said, adapt, this is a great standard, some people just dont want to look at the cards and figure out what to use.
"My [insert random deck here] smashs the tier 1 guys." is a sentence that has no sense since you can't prove anything here or even prove that it's true.
I think you have misread my post. Take for example Ruinous Path. Rare, sorcery speed, 1BB. The awaken does give it some flexibility but ultimately doesn't matter. It isn't the reason you are playing the card. Even the ability to take out a walker doesn't really matter either. It is not a mode often used. Now look at Murder. Same card for all intents and purpose. Murder is common and instant speed. I can find these comparisons to past cards that used to be common and uncommon effects are now rare and worst versions of those old cards.
There are a few pushed creatures. Avcyne, Kalitas and Jace are blantant examples. That is the entire problem. You have this very small pool of creatures in each color that are so far above everything else that their is no deck innovations or choices in deck building. It is like how the titans warped everything from 5-7 CMC. Didn't matter what color you were playing you skipped 5 and 7 CMC creatures and just played Titans. There was nothing even close to them in power level around their casting cost.
I'm referring to historically when you look at a creature in this format it would not have even been considered as playable in past formats. We are in a powered down standard right now. It goes in waves of power level. This is how MTG has survived this many years because it pulls back power creep. But damn you got to make commons and uncommons rare just to do so? Then, make those rares worse versions?
Not reprinting Elvish Mystic/Llanowar Elves is a mistake. Ramp decks have always been defined by their turn 1 plays. This format has some of the best top end creatures ever printed. Ramp has nothing to stablize the board at 3-4 mana w/o killing your own sources of ramp. You don't play mana dorks when you have pyroclasm in your deck. Right now there is no other way to build the deck so it fails.
I will just be lazy and don't search for the link, but if I remember, Wizards made a full declaration saying they DO NOT want 1 drop mana dorks anymore in standard. I am a green player player since ever and green basically used to have every damn thing, the best creatures, toolbox, recursion, even good spot removal and so on. I give zero ****s to standard since i've been playing commander for a couple years now, but mana dorks are quite powerful due to versatility, as they not only speed up early game but attack and block mid to late game.
The best thing you will get is a beastcaller savant variation (it is way better than the origins dork IMO), also they are moving to upper slots at unc/rare because this is what they believe to be balanced now.
As for the overall condition of standard,OP, what exactly do you want? The power level has to go up and down or else the power creep would be out of control. If you're having trouble putting cards together to be competitive, I'm sure in a couple of weeks there will be a whole host of net decks to get you through =).
For the 1 drop mana dork...While I love elves, and elves lost huge with the rotation of elvish mystic, I don't this this meta could handle that powerful of ramp right now. Maybe a 1 drop dork that shocks you(2 damage) each time you use it.