It might have been worth ulting Nahiri just to shuffle her deck, since she knew the card she was looking for was on the bottom. It was pretty crazy that she was whiffing on her draws for so long, though.
Of all the mechanics to see make an impact, I don't think anyone predicted clues to be it. Todd showed the power of madness in his Izzet madness deck. Shame Jace costs so much or I wouldn't mind playing it, even tho I'm a Rakdos mage at heart.
It might have been worth ulting Nahiri just to shuffle her deck, since she knew the card she was looking for was on the bottom. It was pretty crazy that she was whiffing on her draws for so long, though.
Good point. With fetches gone, I think the pros are still getting use to not being able to shuffle whenever they want with fetches.
It's funny tho that with fetches gone, the actual play is faster but the games are all super grindy. Even the matches involving aggro white decks devolve into armies of creatures...I think board sweepers will see a major resurgence next weekend, which will then push the game into midrange/control, opening up aggro to come back.
It was a really fascinating tournament to watch. It's kind of hard to tell what the real takeaways are. I'm not entirely convinced that the best brews were really present in this tournament. I'm sure we'll see some really spicy stuff at the Pro Tour. I think this Standard format is really non-trivial to figure out. Shadows Over Innistrad has so many powerful cards and directions you could go. And on top of this, it seems like a large amount of cards from other sets have now become playable. I think we're really seeing Wotc's 6-set standard format with sets having more standard-relevant cards take effect. This was their vision.
Todd's deck was so fascinating to watch. The goggles were so overpowered with the various madness cards and discard effects.
Nahari seems more and more like a better Planeswalker than people gave her credit for. Her kill ability covers a lot of stuff, and she's in colors that can handle cards that she personally can't deal with.
Sorin and Avacyn were both awesome.
Humans look awesome. I think the Bant Company version was the most impressive, but the White/Blue spash version was also good. I am not sold on the mono-white version, and a deck like this may have limited time to shine before the format settles. Still, lots of cool stuff going on - and Reflector Mage is so good.
And like I should have predicted (but didn't because I am an idiot), Westvale Abbey did almost nothing - at least on camera. But I suspect it was hyped not just a little, but by a huge margin.
As soon as Investigate was spoiled, I said as long as it doesn't add a ton to the casting cost of the spell it's attached to, this will be excellent.
Well, to be fair, most of the clues at the tournament were handed by your opponent through Declaration in Stone. Only Tireless Tracker actually did some Investigating. And while the announcers certainly talked up the card, I didn't think it was that impressive. Seems really slow. There wasn't really any great uses on camera at least, but maybe it did some real work off camera.
So I wasn't able to watch the stream today. Can someone give me a quick summary of the matchups?
If you like Bant colors, it was fun to watch.
I found it kind of boring because Bant is boring to me.
Coco is still good and Bant company is my pick to win because of one card- Reflector Mage. That card is a little op IMO. They should have said can't play next turn unless you pay 2 more mana or 3 life(your opponent chooses) or something like that.
W/X Humans are the aggro deck de jure. B/W is the control De Jure though U/R Madness looked good from Todd Anderson
B/R in any form was nowhere. The way people have been building tribal vamps it's no surprise. The deck versions that win are the super aggro ones that can race humans or b/r midrange with the 2 or 3 best vamps along with other high value creatures like T Regent that would eat the human decks alive. If you're too slow and not mid range, humans out race you and mid range picks you apart before you can kill them.
Saw a little ramp and in a deck built to feature it, Westvale is scary good. It's even good in just an aggro deck as an alt win con.
Predictions for next week: Sweepers come in and non-red aggro has to find a way to work thru it or will fade away like warriors before it. Now that rally is gone, Languish will be huge. I'm looking forward to the B/W Sac deck that will make an appearance at some point in standard to punish board sweepers.
Oh, Avacyn is very good but not OP. There are ways to get around her.
I was expecting R/G in some form but didn't see any on camera tho Naya may make a comeback with Nahiri.
A lot of people just jumped to G/W because of the obviously powerful cards. It's a safe bet for the first tournament. I think you'll see the format diversify very quickly. I don't think the best control deck is near figured out (I'm not sold on Soorani's Esper list). And 3 color mana bases need some work to be figured out what the best combination is. The midrange decks also look very powerful as well, both the Naya Walkers list and the BG Gitrog deck. It looks like Ramp might not be good enough in this new Standard, although maybe the best list just hasn't been found.
This is great news to me as my decks biggest weakness is ramp and it was hardly anywhere. W/g humans was second worst, but with a lot easier matchup. My deck would've done work here haha.
This is great news to me as my decks biggest weakness is ramp and it was hardly anywhere. W/g humans was second worst, but with a lot easier matchup. My deck would've done work here haha.
I think Ramp isn't showing up because it's largely a known quantity. It gaining nothing of note from Shadows means that you know how to play against it and know what your plan against it needs to be. It has no surprises, which isn't a good thing when there are a ton of cards coming in the format that can blow you out and hard. There's a ramp list right now against Anderson, and I feel he was better served taking out the The Thing in the Ices rather than hitting Jace/Pyromancer's goggles for the simple reason that it's reasonable to assume that Anderson had nothing in his deck to answer an Ulamog outside of Thing in the Ice. Jace+Goggles means he could draw a ton of cards, but without any way to deal with Ulamog, there's not much reason to care about this (And U/R doesn't really provide the tools to beat it). Todd could have all the cards he wanted, but he honestly need all of those Things in the Ice to flip exactly when they did to win (And that was really his only path to winning). I also feel that sacrificing Sanctum to get a worldbreaker was a tad bit aggressive considering that Anderson had a Thing in the Ice close to flipping on board, and him with only an Evolving Wilds in hand. The way the board was set up, I just don't think that Worldbreaker was nearly good enough to meaningfully impact the board.
You also have W/G showing up which conveniently can make it so your Returns are just bad, Collected Company which can be rough if they get to company out (And reflector mage is a beating), and plenty of other decks.
Perhaps when the format starts to settle, Ramp will be played a bit more. As of right now, there's too much coming out of left field for the deck to fair well. Ramping into the right creatures at the right time, and having the correct number of interaction spells, is key for Ramp right now.
Couple all of this with everybody and their mother thinking that Ramp will be one of the decks to beat in the new format, as well people wanting to try out new decks to beat out their opponent, and you have a recipe for disaster for the deck.
It's also interesting, however not surprising in the least, to have a complete absence of Red-based aggro in the first week (Which typically has a very strong showing early on). Granted, it pretty much has a non-existent burn suite hurting it (Which is it's biggest strength over other aggro variants).
I will also say I haven't been impressed nearly as much with Declaration in Stone in *every* white list. Particularly it seems quite a bit less impactful if used in Control lists than in Aggro/Midrange decks. Which makes sense, to be honest. The downside, both from experience playing against it and from watching the stream, is real if you are playing a Control deck. The decks that can leverage the immediate board disparity right away (Such as G/W Aggro and the Naya Midrange decks) seem best served by the card. It's a little less impressive, however, in other decks. But that's my personal thoughts on it.
Information for the event is here.
Coverage for the event is here.
Coverage will begin Saturday at 10:30am ET.
Coverage will begin Sunday at 10:00am ET.
You can discuss the event and coverage below.
Please don't discuss:
-- other formats
-- SOIs overall power level and relation to development
-- Siege Rhino
New Standard format. Have fun and support the MTGS members who are playing.
Thanks!
--Lugger
Any mainboard white card?
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Good point. With fetches gone, I think the pros are still getting use to not being able to shuffle whenever they want with fetches.
It's funny tho that with fetches gone, the actual play is faster but the games are all super grindy. Even the matches involving aggro white decks devolve into armies of creatures...I think board sweepers will see a major resurgence next weekend, which will then push the game into midrange/control, opening up aggro to come back.
Good to see that someone made a better version and is doing well with B/G colorless style deck
Todd's deck was so fascinating to watch. The goggles were so overpowered with the various madness cards and discard effects.
Nahari seems more and more like a better Planeswalker than people gave her credit for. Her kill ability covers a lot of stuff, and she's in colors that can handle cards that she personally can't deal with.
Sorin and Avacyn were both awesome.
Humans look awesome. I think the Bant Company version was the most impressive, but the White/Blue spash version was also good. I am not sold on the mono-white version, and a deck like this may have limited time to shine before the format settles. Still, lots of cool stuff going on - and Reflector Mage is so good.
And like I should have predicted (but didn't because I am an idiot), Westvale Abbey did almost nothing - at least on camera. But I suspect it was hyped not just a little, but by a huge margin.
Well, to be fair, most of the clues at the tournament were handed by your opponent through Declaration in Stone. Only Tireless Tracker actually did some Investigating. And while the announcers certainly talked up the card, I didn't think it was that impressive. Seems really slow. There wasn't really any great uses on camera at least, but maybe it did some real work off camera.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
If you like Bant colors, it was fun to watch.
I found it kind of boring because Bant is boring to me.
Coco is still good and Bant company is my pick to win because of one card- Reflector Mage. That card is a little op IMO. They should have said can't play next turn unless you pay 2 more mana or 3 life(your opponent chooses) or something like that.
W/X Humans are the aggro deck de jure. B/W is the control De Jure though U/R Madness looked good from Todd Anderson
B/R in any form was nowhere. The way people have been building tribal vamps it's no surprise. The deck versions that win are the super aggro ones that can race humans or b/r midrange with the 2 or 3 best vamps along with other high value creatures like T Regent that would eat the human decks alive. If you're too slow and not mid range, humans out race you and mid range picks you apart before you can kill them.
Saw a little ramp and in a deck built to feature it, Westvale is scary good. It's even good in just an aggro deck as an alt win con.
Predictions for next week: Sweepers come in and non-red aggro has to find a way to work thru it or will fade away like warriors before it. Now that rally is gone, Languish will be huge. I'm looking forward to the B/W Sac deck that will make an appearance at some point in standard to punish board sweepers.
Oh, Avacyn is very good but not OP. There are ways to get around her.
I was expecting R/G in some form but didn't see any on camera tho Naya may make a comeback with Nahiri.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/598381-kiki-chord-kiki-company
Bring to Niv
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/814060-bring-to-niv-the-golden-deck
Legacy - Lands
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands
I think Ramp isn't showing up because it's largely a known quantity. It gaining nothing of note from Shadows means that you know how to play against it and know what your plan against it needs to be. It has no surprises, which isn't a good thing when there are a ton of cards coming in the format that can blow you out and hard. There's a ramp list right now against Anderson, and I feel he was better served taking out the The Thing in the Ices rather than hitting Jace/Pyromancer's goggles for the simple reason that it's reasonable to assume that Anderson had nothing in his deck to answer an Ulamog outside of Thing in the Ice. Jace+Goggles means he could draw a ton of cards, but without any way to deal with Ulamog, there's not much reason to care about this (And U/R doesn't really provide the tools to beat it). Todd could have all the cards he wanted, but he honestly need all of those Things in the Ice to flip exactly when they did to win (And that was really his only path to winning). I also feel that sacrificing Sanctum to get a worldbreaker was a tad bit aggressive considering that Anderson had a Thing in the Ice close to flipping on board, and him with only an Evolving Wilds in hand. The way the board was set up, I just don't think that Worldbreaker was nearly good enough to meaningfully impact the board.
You also have W/G showing up which conveniently can make it so your Returns are just bad, Collected Company which can be rough if they get to company out (And reflector mage is a beating), and plenty of other decks.
Perhaps when the format starts to settle, Ramp will be played a bit more. As of right now, there's too much coming out of left field for the deck to fair well. Ramping into the right creatures at the right time, and having the correct number of interaction spells, is key for Ramp right now.
Couple all of this with everybody and their mother thinking that Ramp will be one of the decks to beat in the new format, as well people wanting to try out new decks to beat out their opponent, and you have a recipe for disaster for the deck.
It's also interesting, however not surprising in the least, to have a complete absence of Red-based aggro in the first week (Which typically has a very strong showing early on). Granted, it pretty much has a non-existent burn suite hurting it (Which is it's biggest strength over other aggro variants).
I will also say I haven't been impressed nearly as much with Declaration in Stone in *every* white list. Particularly it seems quite a bit less impactful if used in Control lists than in Aggro/Midrange decks. Which makes sense, to be honest. The downside, both from experience playing against it and from watching the stream, is real if you are playing a Control deck. The decks that can leverage the immediate board disparity right away (Such as G/W Aggro and the Naya Midrange decks) seem best served by the card. It's a little less impressive, however, in other decks. But that's my personal thoughts on it.