One could make a potential argument about practically any good card, and trust me, there were threads about these particular cards pretty similar to this one back when they were legal.
Simply being good doesn't equate to WotC doing devious stuff. Just means that they're good cards, and good cards tend to get played. Now if a card is completely busted to the point of format warping (Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic back in their day, you may have an argument, but at the time EVERYONE already knew what the problem was).
I'm expecting a new thread like this when Origins and Battle for Zendikar come out. Just so that you can be SURE to make your point known. Also, good troll post you've got. Good try though.
If Thunderbreak Regent replaces Goblin Rabblemaster as the red threat of choice, I'll rejoice. Even with the damage is far easier to answer and decks with Thunderbreak Regent are probably slower decks that actually have a plan for when the opponent isn't dead on board by turn 4.
If anything, I would be worried about the presence of both Dragon Fodder and Hordeling Outburst. Although Invoke the Flames and Gobblin rabblemaster rotate soon and that alone is worth throwing a party. The deck just needs one Anthem Effect or +X/+0 effect to keep flooding FNM tables.
I hope we receive cheap and efficient cards to combat those like Pyroclasm or Stingerfling Spider in the incoming sets.
This is the sort of thing that has been going on for a good long while now. Were Thunderbreak Regent a common or uncommon, it would probably be slightly under-statted or the ability would cost mana or something along those lines. But, because it's a rare, it just gets to be better. Welcome to Magic, folks. If you haven't figured this out by now, then you're just not paying attention.
As for why rares and mythics just get to be better? Box sales. I very seriously doubt WotC is going to change how they have the power curve because the demand for power-rares and power-mythics is high enough for people to keep buying boxes (or buying on the secondary market from stores that buy boxes to crack for singles) to warrant it.
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"If you hire a sell-sword, you'd better watch your back. Hire me, and I'll watch it for you."
This is the sort of thing that has been going on for a good long while now. Were Thunderbreak Regent a common or uncommon, it would probably be slightly under-statted or the ability would cost mana or something along those lines. But, because it's a rare, it just gets to be better. Welcome to Magic, folks. If you haven't figured this out by now, then you're just not paying attention.
As for why rares and mythics just get to be better? Box sales. I very seriously doubt WotC is going to change how they have the power curve because the demand for power-rares and power-mythics is high enough for people to keep buying boxes (or buying on the secondary market from stores that buy boxes to crack for singles) to warrant it.
Wouldn't it kind of take away from the value of something being rare or mythic rare if it were designed to be as powerful as commons and uncommons? It's not entirely about sales, rares and mythics are supposed to have more interesting and more powerful abilities.
the reason rares are more powerful (or more poowerful cards made rare) is for draft. If this card was a common there would be so many in limited that it would dramatically change how limited was played. Box sales are definitely part of the equation as well, but limited is where most of these decisions are made.
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Wouldn't it kind of take away from the value of something being rare or mythic rare if it were designed to be as powerful as commons and uncommons? It's not entirely about sales, rares and mythics are supposed to have more interesting and more powerful abilities.
Why do rares and mythics just get to be more powerful? More interesting mechanically, sure, that's fine. However, much of the time you see cards printed at rare or mythic rarities that are just flat out better than a common or uncommon card that does something similar. Take Dromoka's Command as opposed to Hunt the Weak, for example. They both allow a creature to fight and can put a +1/+1 counter on a creature but the rare just gets to be Instant-speed and have more utility at a lower CMC. That seems less about making rares and mythics more interesting and just seems to me to be more lazy design.
the reason rares are more powerful (or more poowerful cards made rare) is for draft. If this card was a common there would be so many in limited that it would dramatically change how limited was played. Box sales are definitely part of the equation as well, but limited is where most of these decisions are made.
This is true. I don't play much draft or sealed these days so that's not really where my head was at. I probably shouldn't have attributed rares and mythics being better to pure profit as that tends to assume malicious intent.
Wouldn't it kind of take away from the value of something being rare or mythic rare if it were designed to be as powerful as commons and uncommons? It's not entirely about sales, rares and mythics are supposed to have more interesting and more powerful abilities.
Why do rares and mythics just get to be more powerful? More interesting mechanically, sure, that's fine. However, much of the time you see cards printed at rare or mythic rarities that are just flat out better than a common or uncommon card that does something similar. Take Dromoka's Command as opposed to Hunt the Weak, for example. They both allow a creature to fight and can put a +1/+1 counter on a creature but the rare just gets to be Instant-speed and have more utility at a lower CMC. That seems less about making rares and mythics more interesting and just seems to me to be more lazy design.
Wouldn't it kind of take away from the value of something being rare or mythic rare if it were designed to be as powerful as commons and uncommons? It's not entirely about sales, rares and mythics are supposed to have more interesting and more powerful abilities.
Why do rares and mythics just get to be more powerful? More interesting mechanically, sure, that's fine. However, much of the time you see cards printed at rare or mythic rarities that are just flat out better than a common or uncommon card that does something similar. Take Dromoka's Command as opposed to Hunt the Weak, for example. They both allow a creature to fight and can put a +1/+1 counter on a creature but the rare just gets to be Instant-speed and have more utility at a lower CMC. That seems less about making rares and mythics more interesting and just seems to me to be more lazy design.
Uhmmmm.... because they're rare...
More importantly, because rarity is mostly based on Limited power level, which certainly correlates with constructed power level (although not perfectly by any means).
From the very moment I saw the thread title, I hardly guessed its origin (OP). As stated by Imovefasteronmyown, expect more conspiracies to come in the next future sets.
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Wouldn't it kind of take away from the value of something being rare or mythic rare if it were designed to be as powerful as commons and uncommons? It's not entirely about sales, rares and mythics are supposed to have more interesting and more powerful abilities.
Why do rares and mythics just get to be more powerful? More interesting mechanically, sure, that's fine. However, much of the time you see cards printed at rare or mythic rarities that are just flat out better than a common or uncommon card that does something similar. Take Dromoka's Command as opposed to Hunt the Weak, for example. They both allow a creature to fight and can put a +1/+1 counter on a creature but the rare just gets to be Instant-speed and have more utility at a lower CMC. That seems less about making rares and mythics more interesting and just seems to me to be more lazy design.
Uhmmmm.... because they're rare...
More importantly, because rarity is mostly based on Limited power level, which certainly correlates with constructed power level (although not perfectly by any means).
Yeah, rares do get to be just straight up more powerful because they're rare. That's the point. It makes for both more interesting rares and adds to the draft format. It's the same reason they intentionally print a number of trash commons, uncommons and even rares. And it wouldn't make rares very interesting if you looked at the top rare and thought "I dunno, this common is just as good and about 10x cheaper, I'll just play that."
Wouldn't it kind of take away from the value of something being rare or mythic rare if it were designed to be as powerful as commons and uncommons? It's not entirely about sales, rares and mythics are supposed to have more interesting and more powerful abilities.
Why do rares and mythics just get to be more powerful? More interesting mechanically, sure, that's fine. However, much of the time you see cards printed at rare or mythic rarities that are just flat out better than a common or uncommon card that does something similar. Take Dromoka's Command as opposed to Hunt the Weak, for example. They both allow a creature to fight and can put a +1/+1 counter on a creature but the rare just gets to be Instant-speed and have more utility at a lower CMC. That seems less about making rares and mythics more interesting and just seems to me to be more lazy design.
Uhmmmm.... because they're rare...
More importantly, because rarity is mostly based on Limited power level, which certainly correlates with constructed power level (although not perfectly by any means).
Yeah, rares do get to be just straight up more powerful because they're rare. That's the point. It makes for both more interesting rares and adds to the draft format. It's the same reason they intentionally print a number of trash commons, uncommons and even rares. And it wouldn't make rares very interesting if you looked at the top rare and thought "I dunno, this common is just as good and about 10x cheaper, I'll just play that."
I don't agree that all rares and mythics must be significantly more powerful than their common and uncommon counterparts. I do agree with the fact that they should have interesting mechanics, something that clearly sets them apart from commons and uncommons. However, when those mechanics essentially turn out to be "like this common but better in every conceivable way" then yeah, that's lazy design. Commons/uncommons and rares/mythics shouldn't do the same things, thus giving players some sort of impetus to play them. You're correct, if a common did exactly what a rare did for 1/10 the price tag, everyone would play the common. So, then, wouldn't you say it's up to the design team to make rares and mythics interesting cards to play without making them obviously just more powerful than every other card of that type in the format?
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It's not necessarily a question of power since there are plenty of trashy rares and mythics. It's also about interesting abilities stapled onto a creature or card and seeing how it performs in the game.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they took complexity into heavy consideration for rarity level. Like, more text in the box means more rare. And as we know, greatcardsoftenhavealotoftext.
I had the pleasure of speaking to Tom LaPille (one of the lead developers for Dragons of Tarkir) at the prerelease and when I asked him about this card he said it came about because he wanted red to have a constructed playable dragon for 4 mana. So the team went back and researched various ways to push this card and that's how we reached Thunderbreak Regent. The more you know!
Given that Shaman of the Forgotten Ways and Rattleclaw Mystic aren't seeing a ton of play, you're exaggerating. U/B Control and Esper Control and very much playable right now. In fact, I would love to see match after match against R/G decks. So much removal, sweepers, and hard threats for R/G to answer.
If you think that standard is all Abzan and Gruul, you need to actually play the game.
I had the pleasure of speaking to Tom LaPille (one of the lead developers for Dragons of Tarkir) at the prerelease and when I asked him about this card he said it came about because he wanted red to have a constructed playable dragon for 4 mana. So the team went back and researched various ways to push this card and that's how we reached Thunderbreak Regent. The more you know!
I agree! It's about time to have a playable dragon in constructed standard play. Thunderbreak Regent is not that really of a broken card as the OP complains about (which I guess will continue as "broken" cards are printed). I think that threads like these should not be created at all, unless the card being printed (or reprinted) are really broken ones (like the JtMS days).
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There hasn't been a broken card printed in years. What was the last one? Jace, The Mind Sculptor? Stoneforge mystic?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the last deck that straight dominated standard was Caw-Blade. You either played it or had to have a plan for it. After that, the standard tourney meta has been pretty healthy AFAIK.
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"If you hire a sell-sword, you'd better watch your back. Hire me, and I'll watch it for you."
I won't argue over the power creep of creatures in recent years, but of all of the things to complain about, you choose Thunderbreak Regent?
It's good, yes. It's better than good for its cost, yes. But it's only this good because of the quality of cards other colors get ... and it's still not even AS good.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard
I like Thunderbreak Dragon more than Siege Rhino because it is less HERP DERP LOSE 3 LIFE I GAIN 3 LIFE OH GUESS WHAT IT HAS TRAMPLE TOO! LOSE 7 life K?
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
I wanted to make another topic on how to deal with Thunderbreak Regent once it hits the opponents board. It's hard to use spot removal on it, because it deals 3 damage to you (even using fight mechanic). It comes down early enough that it might be too late for a sweeper, and sometimes early enough that you can't counter it because you were on the draw. It has flying as well, so it's hard to block.
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I have figured out the best way around it is to just block it. Arbor Colossus. The monstrous ability is nice too but you'll lose life for targeting.
I think there might be some sort of viable BG or WG deck for it. Not sure if Abzan can support the GGG.
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Simply being good doesn't equate to WotC doing devious stuff. Just means that they're good cards, and good cards tend to get played. Now if a card is completely busted to the point of format warping (Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic back in their day, you may have an argument, but at the time EVERYONE already knew what the problem was).
I'm expecting a new thread like this when Origins and Battle for Zendikar come out. Just so that you can be SURE to make your point known. Also, good troll post you've got. Good try though.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
If anything, I would be worried about the presence of both Dragon Fodder and Hordeling Outburst. Although Invoke the Flames and Gobblin rabblemaster rotate soon and that alone is worth throwing a party. The deck just needs one Anthem Effect or +X/+0 effect to keep flooding FNM tables.
I hope we receive cheap and efficient cards to combat those like Pyroclasm or Stingerfling Spider in the incoming sets.
As for why rares and mythics just get to be better? Box sales. I very seriously doubt WotC is going to change how they have the power curve because the demand for power-rares and power-mythics is high enough for people to keep buying boxes (or buying on the secondary market from stores that buy boxes to crack for singles) to warrant it.
Wouldn't it kind of take away from the value of something being rare or mythic rare if it were designed to be as powerful as commons and uncommons? It's not entirely about sales, rares and mythics are supposed to have more interesting and more powerful abilities.
Why do rares and mythics just get to be more powerful? More interesting mechanically, sure, that's fine. However, much of the time you see cards printed at rare or mythic rarities that are just flat out better than a common or uncommon card that does something similar. Take Dromoka's Command as opposed to Hunt the Weak, for example. They both allow a creature to fight and can put a +1/+1 counter on a creature but the rare just gets to be Instant-speed and have more utility at a lower CMC. That seems less about making rares and mythics more interesting and just seems to me to be more lazy design.
This is true. I don't play much draft or sealed these days so that's not really where my head was at. I probably shouldn't have attributed rares and mythics being better to pure profit as that tends to assume malicious intent.
Uhmmmm.... because they're rare...
More importantly, because rarity is mostly based on Limited power level, which certainly correlates with constructed power level (although not perfectly by any means).
Yeah, rares do get to be just straight up more powerful because they're rare. That's the point. It makes for both more interesting rares and adds to the draft format. It's the same reason they intentionally print a number of trash commons, uncommons and even rares. And it wouldn't make rares very interesting if you looked at the top rare and thought "I dunno, this common is just as good and about 10x cheaper, I'll just play that."
I don't agree that all rares and mythics must be significantly more powerful than their common and uncommon counterparts. I do agree with the fact that they should have interesting mechanics, something that clearly sets them apart from commons and uncommons. However, when those mechanics essentially turn out to be "like this common but better in every conceivable way" then yeah, that's lazy design. Commons/uncommons and rares/mythics shouldn't do the same things, thus giving players some sort of impetus to play them. You're correct, if a common did exactly what a rare did for 1/10 the price tag, everyone would play the common. So, then, wouldn't you say it's up to the design team to make rares and mythics interesting cards to play without making them obviously just more powerful than every other card of that type in the format?
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If you think that standard is all Abzan and Gruul, you need to actually play the game.
I agree! It's about time to have a playable dragon in constructed standard play. Thunderbreak Regent is not that really of a broken card as the OP complains about (which I guess will continue as "broken" cards are printed). I think that threads like these should not be created at all, unless the card being printed (or reprinted) are really broken ones (like the JtMS days).
It is more like a Blightning that hits for 7 instead of 4 if they don't have the right card right now.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the last deck that straight dominated standard was Caw-Blade. You either played it or had to have a plan for it. After that, the standard tourney meta has been pretty healthy AFAIK.
It's good, yes. It's better than good for its cost, yes. But it's only this good because of the quality of cards other colors get ... and it's still not even AS good.
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard
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Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge