He also benefited from a complete lack of Ultimate price in the sideboards of people I think. I expect that to be different after this. I saw Atarka played once it was GG pretty much after it hit despite being locked down by a icefall regent
Narset is horrible. You play her, you die. lol? Not even on the same level as Nissa Worldwaker which had the same amount of early hype.
Have you tried her in Jeskai Tokens? Different story all together.
I was basing my comment off results of this tournament not the entire standard environment. Perhaps you think it's good but you can't just say a card is good when it doesn't post results. The proof is in the pudding as they say.
I will give you that this metagame doesn't mean all that much. The professionals have a lot on the line through the pro points reward scheme and prize money incentives so there's no way they should be revealing their best decks and strategies 7 days before a big event. I'm sure Pantheon has some tricks up their collective sleeves.
It didn't post results because the Jeskai Ascendancy Token decks are easily hated on anymore. People always carry enchantment hate since RW took a hold in the meta. Plus they just printed Seismic Rupture which really hoses them. Narset is a build-around walker, you can't just throw her in any deck that can cast her by t4. Which from what i've seen, people were doing.
Narset is horrible. You play her, you die. lol? Not even on the same level as Nissa Worldwaker which had the same amount of early hype.
RG aggro seems to be a clear cut crowd favorite but I still think the deck can be hated out.
YOU NEED ANSWERS FOR STORMBREATH DRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simple as that. You can't blame WoTC for not giving them to you. Plummet, Ultimate Price.
Stopped reading right there. Seriously, how can you make such outlandish statements. It's laughable that you think she has a low power level and even more evident you haven't built a deck around her.
It didn't post results because the Jeskai Ascendancy Token decks are easily hated on anymore. People always carry enchantment hate since RW took a hold in the meta. Plus they just printed Seismic Rupture which really hoses them. Narset is a build-around walker, you can't just throw her in any deck that can cast her by t4. Which from what i've seen, people were doing.
It didn't post results because the Jeskai Ascendancy Token decks are easily hated on anymore. People always carry enchantment hate since RW took a hold in the meta. Plus they just printed Seismic Rupture which really hoses them. Narset is a build-around walker, you can't just throw her in any deck that can cast her by t4. Which from what i've seen, people were doing.
This guy gets it.
What? Build a white deck of non-creature spells?
Yeah that's a horrible deck. Unfortunately the format doesn't support creatureless control decks splashing white. Those that have tried tokens got hosed by Seismic Rupture, Scouring Sands and Drown in Sorrow. Lets also not forget Virulent Plague can be called into action if needed too.
Better mana fixing and better control spells are needed for Narset to be good. Wizards has had their fun with End Hostilities, perhaps it's time to bring back a real 4 mana wrath like Day of Judgment. I do believe that's a Zendikar card so we'll see
It didn't post results because the Jeskai Ascendancy Token decks are easily hated on anymore. People always carry enchantment hate since RW took a hold in the meta. Plus they just printed Seismic Rupture which really hoses them. Narset is a build-around walker, you can't just throw her in any deck that can cast her by t4. Which from what i've seen, people were doing.
This guy gets it.
What? Build a white deck of non-creature spells?
Yeah that's a horrible deck. Unfortunately the format doesn't support creatureless control decks splashing white. Those that have tried tokens got hosed by Seismic Rupture, Scouring Sands and Drown in Sorrow. Lets also not forget Virulent Plague can be called into action if needed too.
Better mana fixing and better control spells are needed for Narset to be good. Wizards has had their fun with End Hostilities, perhaps it's time to bring back a real 4 mana wrath like Day of Judgment. I do believe that's a Zendikar card so we'll see
Have you seen jeskai tokens? It's a "creatureless" deck that I find to be a good fit for Narset. Sure there is hate for Tokens, but every deck is hated on after board. The difference is that tokens sides into counterspells making hate cards null a certain % of the time. I'm not trying to defend the card, but your logic seems kind of narrow. Let's wait till the protour to see how often she is played and how effective she is.
It didn't post results because the Jeskai Ascendancy Token decks are easily hated on anymore. People always carry enchantment hate since RW took a hold in the meta. Plus they just printed Seismic Rupture which really hoses them. Narset is a build-around walker, you can't just throw her in any deck that can cast her by t4. Which from what i've seen, people were doing.
This guy gets it.
What? Build a white deck of non-creature spells?
Yeah that's a horrible deck. Unfortunately the format doesn't support creatureless control decks splashing white. Those that have tried tokens got hosed by Seismic Rupture, Scouring Sands and Drown in Sorrow. Lets also not forget Virulent Plague can be called into action if needed too.
Better mana fixing and better control spells are needed for Narset to be good. Wizards has had their fun with End Hostilities, perhaps it's time to bring back a real 4 mana wrath like Day of Judgment. I do believe that's a Zendikar card so we'll see
It's not easy to hate out tokens. Jeskai Ascendancy & Treasure Cruise makes it an extremely resilient deck with an excellent late game. It wins by chaining spells together and exploiting JA. It does not need a massive number of tokens to win. Virulent Plague does the job, but it's incredibly narrow (how many do you really think someone can afford to put in their sideboard? 2 at most?). And in the post board games, Jeskai tokens boards into bigger threats.
Whether Narset really fits into the game plan is a different question.
Narset is horrible. You play her, you die. lol? Not even on the same level as Nissa Worldwaker which had the same amount of early hype.
RG aggro seems to be a clear cut crowd favorite but I still think the deck can be hated out.
YOU NEED ANSWERS FOR STORMBREATH DRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simple as that. You can't blame WoTC for not giving them to you. Plummet, Ultimate Price.
Stopped reading right there. Seriously, how can you make such outlandish statements. It's laughable that you think she has a low power level and even more evident you haven't built a deck around her.
Its easy to make a statement like that, since Narset does nothing to protect herself and change the board state. Planeswalkers who are unable to do those things are pretty bad 9 times out of 10. Maybe Narset happens to be the 1 out of 10 times a walker like that can be good, but right now the consensus is that Narset is bad until proven otherwise.
On the other hand, so much aggro. Forget control, there's barely any midrange at all present. Is this new standard basically an aggro or get out format? Its starting to look that way.
So in light of this event being 90% aggro in the top 32, the next level for the pro tour would be midrange decks built to crush aggro. Which means a lot of pro tour players will play control hoping to next level them, exposing themselves to the aggro players.
Might lead to a balanced meta at the pro tour?
The definition of 'aggro' has been stretched beyond recognition the past few months. CVM's deck had eight ramp creatures and fifteen spells with CMC four or more; that's a midrange deck by any definition I've seen.
Narset is horrible. You play her, you die. lol? Not even on the same level as Nissa Worldwaker which had the same amount of early hype.
RG aggro seems to be a clear cut crowd favorite but I still think the deck can be hated out.
YOU NEED ANSWERS FOR STORMBREATH DRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simple as that. You can't blame WoTC for not giving them to you. Plummet, Ultimate Price.
Stopped reading right there. Seriously, how can you make such outlandish statements. It's laughable that you think she has a low power level and even more evident you haven't built a deck around her.
Its easy to make a statement like that, since Narset does nothing to protect herself and change the board state. Planeswalkers who are unable to do those things are pretty bad 9 times out of 10. Maybe Narset happens to be the 1 out of 10 times a walker like that can be good, but right now the consensus is that Narset is bad until proven otherwise.
On the other hand, so much aggro. Forget control, there's barely any midrange at all present. Is this new standard basically an aggro or get out format? Its starting to look that way.
narset is good but she's kind of a win more imo. like, when you're at 8 mana, have the board stabilized, and have a grip full of counters or are just safe/ahead enough to protect her, then she's backbreaking (rebounding Utter End or Dig Through time is pretty gg)
you don't cast her on turn 4 in a control deck...unless you're already safe/stable, like i said.
idk, i think she's worth playing in control if you're in u/w but i think she's overhyped because she isn't as inherently powerful as JTMS. Hell even KTK Sarkhan can at least come in and immediately kill a guy while also being a clock.
it's still pretty early but i have a feeling that she will be an effective role player but not necessarily a format defining powerhouse or anything.
I was really hoping for a RUG midrange/tapout control deck to pop up. It has a early sweeper (anger) a instant removal burn (lightning strike) and a top end creature remover (roast)
Narset is horrible. You play her, you die. lol? Not even on the same level as Nissa Worldwaker which had the same amount of early hype.
RG aggro seems to be a clear cut crowd favorite but I still think the deck can be hated out.
YOU NEED ANSWERS FOR STORMBREATH DRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simple as that. You can't blame WoTC for not giving them to you. Plummet, Ultimate Price.
Stopped reading right there. Seriously, how can you make such outlandish statements. It's laughable that you think she has a low power level and even more evident you haven't built a deck around her.
Its easy to make a statement like that, since Narset does nothing to protect herself and change the board state. Planeswalkers who are unable to do those things are pretty bad 9 times out of 10. Maybe Narset happens to be the 1 out of 10 times a walker like that can be good, but right now the consensus is that Narset is bad until proven otherwise.
On the other hand, so much aggro. Forget control, there's barely any midrange at all present. Is this new standard basically an aggro or get out format? Its starting to look that way.
narset is good but she's kind of a win more imo. like, when you're at 8 mana, have the board stabilized, and have a grip full of counters or are just safe/ahead enough to protect her, then she's backbreaking (rebounding Utter End or Dig Through time is pretty gg)
you don't cast her on turn 4 in a control deck...unless you're already safe/stable, like i said.
idk, i think she's worth playing in control if you're in u/w but i think she's overhyped because she isn't as inherently powerful as JTMS. Hell even KTK Sarkhan can at least come in and immediately kill a guy while also being a clock.
it's still pretty early but i have a feeling that she will be an effective role player but not necessarily a format defining powerhouse or anything.
If anyone watched Shaheen Soorani's Esper deck being played in Richmond the weekend before this past one, Narset did some serious work for him and in one game he was willing to tap out for her on T4 - I'd wager because doing that is worth it in some matchups. I agree she has the potential to be a serious role player (not a win condition), but I think you can afford to play her much earlier than some people seem to think. It depends on some factors like your opponent's board state, whether they're likely to have Downfall, etc. I do also believe that calling her horrible would be a massive overstatement.
So in light of this event being 90% aggro in the top 32, the next level for the pro tour would be midrange decks built to crush aggro. Which means a lot of pro tour players will play control hoping to next level them, exposing themselves to the aggro players.
Might lead to a balanced meta at the pro tour?
The definition of 'aggro' has been stretched beyond recognition the past few months. CVM's deck had eight ramp creatures and fifteen spells with CMC four or more; that's a midrange deck by any definition I've seen.
Thank you! I kept clicking decklists and thinking that they must have mislabeled the decks.
It's called aggro because all it wants to do is drop creatures and go sideways. Midrange want to drop efficient threats while destabilizing it's opponent. Control wants to grind away all your opponents threats before finally dropping a finisher to end the game.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that it's a definition of strategy, not mana curve.
I'm so stuck with this deck I don't know what direction to go with it. I currently play Abzan while I tweek RUG. I can't decide if it's better to go with a full dragon creature base with Scorn or do the knuckleblade route.
For dragon base I was going to play
+4 thunderbreak
+2 icefall
With knuckblade I would probably go
+4 knuckleblade
+2 icefall
If you're playing red dragons there's almost no reason not to have a couple of Stormbreaths. Late game, slamming down a Stormbreath Dragon and then going monstrous can provide a huge swing and finish the game out of nowhere.
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I've understood that the difference between Aggro and Midrange is the phase of the game in which it tries to win, card choices being a consequence of that. Imo, there's only two main aggro decks: Red and Heroic.
I think they've let a lot of decks slide as aggro to differentiate from their Midrange counterparts.
In my mind, CVM's deck is an aggro deck. It's not really the cmc of spells that defines whether it's aggro, control, midrange. Take a look and INN-RTR Bant Midrange. It played for the long game but hoped to close it out before it got there, thragtusks, resto angels, angel of serenity... and then it has spells like sphinx's revelation and azorius charm, perhaps even Jace. It's not really a control deck (in the traditional sense - bant control was it's own thing back then with think twices, dissipates elixir of immortality, etc), yet it's not going to kill you any time within the first 10 turns. CVM's deck starts trying to kill you as soon as turn 3, and then it doesn't stop until you're dead, or he's dead. Going bigger than the other aggro decks doesn't mean it's not an aggro deck. Really, it seems like the deck is like a pungee pit - you stick you're hand in, and it's going to get caught and backlash, whether it's from thunderbreak regents or draconic roars, and then before you know it, you're dead.
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RG aggro seems to be a clear cut crowd favorite but I still think the deck can be hated out.
YOU NEED ANSWERS FOR STORMBREATH DRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simple as that. You can't blame WoTC for not giving them to you. Plummet, Ultimate Price.
Have you tried her in Jeskai Tokens? Different story all together.
I was basing my comment off results of this tournament not the entire standard environment. Perhaps you think it's good but you can't just say a card is good when it doesn't post results. The proof is in the pudding as they say.
I will give you that this metagame doesn't mean all that much. The professionals have a lot on the line through the pro points reward scheme and prize money incentives so there's no way they should be revealing their best decks and strategies 7 days before a big event. I'm sure Pantheon has some tricks up their collective sleeves.
Stopped reading right there. Seriously, how can you make such outlandish statements. It's laughable that you think she has a low power level and even more evident you haven't built a deck around her.
This guy gets it.
What? Build a white deck of non-creature spells?
Yeah that's a horrible deck. Unfortunately the format doesn't support creatureless control decks splashing white. Those that have tried tokens got hosed by Seismic Rupture, Scouring Sands and Drown in Sorrow. Lets also not forget Virulent Plague can be called into action if needed too.
Better mana fixing and better control spells are needed for Narset to be good. Wizards has had their fun with End Hostilities, perhaps it's time to bring back a real 4 mana wrath like Day of Judgment. I do believe that's a Zendikar card so we'll see
Have you seen jeskai tokens? It's a "creatureless" deck that I find to be a good fit for Narset. Sure there is hate for Tokens, but every deck is hated on after board. The difference is that tokens sides into counterspells making hate cards null a certain % of the time. I'm not trying to defend the card, but your logic seems kind of narrow. Let's wait till the protour to see how often she is played and how effective she is.
It's not easy to hate out tokens. Jeskai Ascendancy & Treasure Cruise makes it an extremely resilient deck with an excellent late game. It wins by chaining spells together and exploiting JA. It does not need a massive number of tokens to win. Virulent Plague does the job, but it's incredibly narrow (how many do you really think someone can afford to put in their sideboard? 2 at most?). And in the post board games, Jeskai tokens boards into bigger threats.
Whether Narset really fits into the game plan is a different question.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Its easy to make a statement like that, since Narset does nothing to protect herself and change the board state. Planeswalkers who are unable to do those things are pretty bad 9 times out of 10. Maybe Narset happens to be the 1 out of 10 times a walker like that can be good, but right now the consensus is that Narset is bad until proven otherwise.
On the other hand, so much aggro. Forget control, there's barely any midrange at all present. Is this new standard basically an aggro or get out format? Its starting to look that way.
The definition of 'aggro' has been stretched beyond recognition the past few months. CVM's deck had eight ramp creatures and fifteen spells with CMC four or more; that's a midrange deck by any definition I've seen.
narset is good but she's kind of a win more imo. like, when you're at 8 mana, have the board stabilized, and have a grip full of counters or are just safe/ahead enough to protect her, then she's backbreaking (rebounding Utter End or Dig Through time is pretty gg)
you don't cast her on turn 4 in a control deck...unless you're already safe/stable, like i said.
idk, i think she's worth playing in control if you're in u/w but i think she's overhyped because she isn't as inherently powerful as JTMS. Hell even KTK Sarkhan can at least come in and immediately kill a guy while also being a clock.
it's still pretty early but i have a feeling that she will be an effective role player but not necessarily a format defining powerhouse or anything.
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard
I really thought it was going to happen here.
If anyone watched Shaheen Soorani's Esper deck being played in Richmond the weekend before this past one, Narset did some serious work for him and in one game he was willing to tap out for her on T4 - I'd wager because doing that is worth it in some matchups. I agree she has the potential to be a serious role player (not a win condition), but I think you can afford to play her much earlier than some people seem to think. It depends on some factors like your opponent's board state, whether they're likely to have Downfall, etc. I do also believe that calling her horrible would be a massive overstatement.
Thank you! I kept clicking decklists and thinking that they must have mislabeled the decks.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that it's a definition of strategy, not mana curve.
I would go with a dragon base and do something like:
+2 Thunderbreak Regent
+2 Icefall Regent
+2 Stormbreath Dragon
If you're playing red dragons there's almost no reason not to have a couple of Stormbreaths. Late game, slamming down a Stormbreath Dragon and then going monstrous can provide a huge swing and finish the game out of nowhere.
I think they've let a lot of decks slide as aggro to differentiate from their Midrange counterparts.