UB control is probably the worst competitive deck in standard. As mentioned earlier, it one for ones and then loses shortly after dropping some finisher like pearl lake or ugin. It's a joke of a deck, sultai is so much better it's not even funny. If you can wait for DTK, I would go with a UW based control deck since they got all the best toys.
I remain to be persuaded that the changes to UW are going to make at least pure UW viable. Having a win condition that's not as easily-countered or white-intensive as Elspeth will help a lot, but a 4 mana conditional counterspell even as a cantrip is not going to make a deck that struggles against a field of 4cc or less creatures any more viable than it is now, and UW still has the same problem it had before: there are no good sweepers it can play. Ojutai may be enough to persuade the UB decks to splash white for Esper control, since it's better than any win condition they currently have, and they get Narset to play with, but I'm not sure pure UW is going anywhere.
UB control is probably the worst competitive deck in standard. As mentioned earlier, it one for ones and then loses shortly after dropping some finisher like pearl lake or ugin. It's a joke of a deck, sultai is so much better it's not even funny. If you can wait for DTK, I would go with a UW based control deck since they got all the best toys.
I remain to be persuaded that the changes to UW are going to make at least pure UW viable. Having a win condition that's not as easily-countered or white-intensive as Elspeth will help a lot, but a 4 mana conditional counterspell even as a cantrip is not going to make a deck that struggles against a field of 4cc or less creatures any more viable than it is now, and UW still has the same problem it had before: there are no good sweepers it can play. Ojutai may be enough to persuade the UB decks to splash white for Esper control, since it's better than any win condition they currently have, and they get Narset to play with, but I'm not sure pure UW is going anywhere.
Fair, but I mean I don't really think UB is any good and was trying to keep suggestions within the realm of control. Are sweepers really a huge selling point when whisperwood elemental is a thing?
UB control is probably the worst competitive deck in standard. As mentioned earlier, it one for ones and then loses shortly after dropping some finisher like pearl lake or ugin. It's a joke of a deck, sultai is so much better it's not even funny. If you can wait for DTK, I would go with a UW based control deck since they got all the best toys.
I remain to be persuaded that the changes to UW are going to make at least pure UW viable. Having a win condition that's not as easily-countered or white-intensive as Elspeth will help a lot, but a 4 mana conditional counterspell even as a cantrip is not going to make a deck that struggles against a field of 4cc or less creatures any more viable than it is now, and UW still has the same problem it had before: there are no good sweepers it can play. Ojutai may be enough to persuade the UB decks to splash white for Esper control, since it's better than any win condition they currently have, and they get Narset to play with, but I'm not sure pure UW is going anywhere.
Fair, but I mean I don't really think UB is any good and was trying to keep suggestions within the realm of control. Are sweepers really a huge selling point when whisperwood elemental is a thing?
Oh, I don't disagree. I've still been playing Whip and UB control is the only matchup where I can pretty much guarantee a win.
I'm not sure it's the lack of a sweeper explicitly that's keeping UW down (Elspeth is now at least viable again, if not as strong as she was), but UW control is surely disfavoured because its spot removal generally isn't as good as UB removal, and it can't easily deal with token swarms without a tool like Bile Blight or Drown in Sorrow. It may have better finishers, but what else is white really adding? The only removal white gets in Dragons is highly conditional. A 4-mana sweeper is helpful to deal with both issues, a 5 mana one less so. Very unusually for a large set, Dragons contains no sweepers at all for either white or black (but then, since there are three in the last two sets alone, that's probably understandable).
Where white is weak on removal, UB is weak on finishers: if there were a strong white finisher that - unlike Elspeth - could be splashed, I could see Esper control being a thing, but not UW itself.
Take it as you will but at my LGS the guy who's most likely going to place 1st for the FRF season pilots UB Control. It's the most competitive store in the city and there are a number of Sultai control decks floating around being used by some pretty good players. I think that they're both pretty close in power level in different ways. Saying UB is no good is just disregarding the fact that it has to be played properly and is not as forgiving as the Sultai variant may be.
Love how some players say it's a bad deck but it still manages to place in events. It's like talking tactics in a football match. It's not how you win that matters it's that you win when it counts. If I want to play for fun, I'll pilot some cute, but the tier 1 decks aren't cute they're very good at what they are going for. U/B is draw go style, not cuteness, no flashy moments, just "Umm, nope that doesn't resolve, or sure, but I'll..." Sultai...it's the tomatillo sauce of control and I like that too.
On the flip side, I'm not a fan of decks that run 30-31 creatures. When I see that I'm always saying "Timmy!!" to myself.
Hmmm was able to play both decks at some point and while sultai control takes a little more practice to pilot than U/B control, I find both decks pretty good.
If you're into the waiting game, go U/B, but if you like being proactive then play sultai control. Personally my built right now uses no wayfinders and has 3 dissolves in the main, this makes it mimic U/B control while having access to the utility tools in the sultai colors and walkers as well, aside from ashiok.
Looking at the cards in DTK, I feel that the only thing you can really put into these control builds is anticipate
ultimate price may find a good home in UB control, but less likely in sultai control.
Others like silumgar's scorn (though this might be good to some extent) and that flash creature with a counter spell effect maybe a bit hard to fit in since they are very conditional.
Bout you guys what other add ons from DTK are you considering?
P.s. Esper might emerge as a good control deck, but between the 3 I think BUG and UB will still be the more favored options.
I've never ventured into Sultai, but I've been playing UB regularly since late in KTK standard. Anticipate and Ultimate Price should help the deck significantly. UB can run into the problem of stumbling early and both additions will shore up the early game. After that, I'm going to test 1 (or 2) Dragonlord's Prerogative in place of Jace's Ingenuity.
I'm probably going to try Dragonlord Silumgar in the board. I'm not convinced that it's better than the other Silumgar, but it seems like a reasonable card to try out.
Silumgar's Command is intriguing but expensive. I'm sure I'll try it as a 1-of at some point. Silumgar's Scorn, on the other hand, seems bad. I don't think we can afford to run enough dragons to turn that into more than a Force Spike with any regularity.
Foul-Tongue Invocation might be good. Even as an expensive Devour Flesh, instant speed edicts are worthy of consideration.
It amazes me that people claim that UB is terrible in respect to Sultai. I've attempted to pilot both decks, and can not come to that conclusion.
The only real reason why Sultai has an advantage over UB in the current format is Sultai Charm. That is it.
By running perilous vault and ugin, that "advantage" is minimized.
From my play testing experience (as a UB player) I actually feel favored when I play against Sultai. They simply don't have enough counters to keep up.
The only times I've lost against sultai are when they have a turn 3 Ashiok and I have no answer.
That being said... against GW devotion having access to charm to destroy mastery is HUGE. It's by far the most annoying card to deal with as a UB player. But you are not completely dead to Mastery as a UB player. You have several outs that can easily compete with it.
As other people have said, UB is less forgiving then Sultai, but that doesn't make it a worse deck. In some ways, it makes it better.
Sorry, don't mean to Necro, but LOL @ all the people in this thread who said before and after DTK that UB Control is not a tier 1 deck. I want to hear some of my Control bro's in this thread give their opinions about the future. I really like Ojutai, but I have decided to go with Icefall Regent and more removal to stay straight UB. The only card I have been having trouble with is Narset, Transcendent out of my friends Esper list. That card really is a mirror breaker and I think it warrants packing more discard and Negates into the SB incase she shows up.
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I remain to be persuaded that the changes to UW are going to make at least pure UW viable. Having a win condition that's not as easily-countered or white-intensive as Elspeth will help a lot, but a 4 mana conditional counterspell even as a cantrip is not going to make a deck that struggles against a field of 4cc or less creatures any more viable than it is now, and UW still has the same problem it had before: there are no good sweepers it can play. Ojutai may be enough to persuade the UB decks to splash white for Esper control, since it's better than any win condition they currently have, and they get Narset to play with, but I'm not sure pure UW is going anywhere.
Fair, but I mean I don't really think UB is any good and was trying to keep suggestions within the realm of control. Are sweepers really a huge selling point when whisperwood elemental is a thing?
Oh, I don't disagree. I've still been playing Whip and UB control is the only matchup where I can pretty much guarantee a win.
I'm not sure it's the lack of a sweeper explicitly that's keeping UW down (Elspeth is now at least viable again, if not as strong as she was), but UW control is surely disfavoured because its spot removal generally isn't as good as UB removal, and it can't easily deal with token swarms without a tool like Bile Blight or Drown in Sorrow. It may have better finishers, but what else is white really adding? The only removal white gets in Dragons is highly conditional. A 4-mana sweeper is helpful to deal with both issues, a 5 mana one less so. Very unusually for a large set, Dragons contains no sweepers at all for either white or black (but then, since there are three in the last two sets alone, that's probably understandable).
Where white is weak on removal, UB is weak on finishers: if there were a strong white finisher that - unlike Elspeth - could be splashed, I could see Esper control being a thing, but not UW itself.
On the flip side, I'm not a fan of decks that run 30-31 creatures. When I see that I'm always saying "Timmy!!" to myself.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
If you're into the waiting game, go U/B, but if you like being proactive then play sultai control. Personally my built right now uses no wayfinders and has 3 dissolves in the main, this makes it mimic U/B control while having access to the utility tools in the sultai colors and walkers as well, aside from ashiok.
Looking at the cards in DTK, I feel that the only thing you can really put into these control builds is anticipate
ultimate price may find a good home in UB control, but less likely in sultai control.
Others like silumgar's scorn (though this might be good to some extent) and that flash creature with a counter spell effect maybe a bit hard to fit in since they are very conditional.
Bout you guys what other add ons from DTK are you considering?
P.s. Esper might emerge as a good control deck, but between the 3 I think BUG and UB will still be the more favored options.
I'm probably going to try Dragonlord Silumgar in the board. I'm not convinced that it's better than the other Silumgar, but it seems like a reasonable card to try out.
Silumgar's Command is intriguing but expensive. I'm sure I'll try it as a 1-of at some point. Silumgar's Scorn, on the other hand, seems bad. I don't think we can afford to run enough dragons to turn that into more than a Force Spike with any regularity.
Foul-Tongue Invocation might be good. Even as an expensive Devour Flesh, instant speed edicts are worthy of consideration.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
The only real reason why Sultai has an advantage over UB in the current format is Sultai Charm. That is it.
By running perilous vault and ugin, that "advantage" is minimized.
From my play testing experience (as a UB player) I actually feel favored when I play against Sultai. They simply don't have enough counters to keep up.
The only times I've lost against sultai are when they have a turn 3 Ashiok and I have no answer.
That being said... against GW devotion having access to charm to destroy mastery is HUGE. It's by far the most annoying card to deal with as a UB player. But you are not completely dead to Mastery as a UB player. You have several outs that can easily compete with it.
As other people have said, UB is less forgiving then Sultai, but that doesn't make it a worse deck. In some ways, it makes it better.
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I like both, but Sultai is a bit more fun. I do think there are some good UB additions in Dragons of Tarkir.