So basically, I am looking for some help with an aggro deck.
Not a specific deck, more just looking for general advice around this topic for the current standard season, and if possible, compare it to a generic standard.
For instance, I know that aggro decks, especially creature based decks, dont really need to worry about lifegain, or countering. Mainly our goal is to just kill, even if we only have 1 life, and no creatures left. Usually we like some way to protect our creatures which is sometimes difficult in the colors you are running (depending on colors).
Another thing that I have found aggro needs for support (in my limited knowledge of RTR till now) is some Reach/Evasion. Cards that give you trample, first strike, flying, unblockable, and things of that sort.
An amount of removal is usually also needed to get past some otherwise pesky roadblocks.
So some questions I'd pose, and like to start some discussion on are;
What types of support cards really shine in the current standard meta, and for what colors?
Does the meta of this standard cause aggro decks to need extra, or less, of any of these support roles?
Do any specific Decks (that are common in the meta) warrant a heavy side-board of different support cards?
Do certain colors need different support help than others, and if so, what kind? (for example, red needs lots of evasion help, but has plenty of removal and reach in burn)
What are some dual purpose support cards?
I'd say that obviously, there are some all-stars in:
What are some others that you specifically like, and why?
I personally am fond of Athreos, God of Passage in black white decks if there is room in the 3 drop spot, simply because it forces exile, or life loss, otherwise he generates card advantage which is great for aggro. Rarely have I been sad to have him show up in an Orzhov aggro.
Just wanna comment on Athreos. Athreos is not a good aggro card, because almost every can just ignore the effect. You play 2/1's that can't block, he plays a rhino and tramples you out. There's also Whip of Erebos, Hornet Queen etc.
as for your question, there is no answer to it, it all depends.
So basically, I am looking for some help with an aggro deck.
Not a specific deck, more just looking for general advice around this topic for the current standard season, and if possible, compare it to a generic standard.
For instance, I know that aggro decks, especially creature based decks, dont really need to worry about lifegain, or countering. Mainly our goal is to just kill, even if we only have 1 life, and no creatures left. Usually we like some way to protect our creatures which is sometimes difficult in the colors you are running (depending on colors).
Another thing that I have found aggro needs for support (in my limited knowledge of RTR till now) is some Reach/Evasion. Cards that give you trample, first strike, flying, unblockable, and things of that sort.
An amount of removal is usually also needed to get past some otherwise pesky roadblocks.
So some questions I'd pose, and like to start some discussion on are;
What types of support cards really shine in the current standard meta, and for what colors?
Does the meta of this standard cause aggro decks to need extra, or less, of any of these support roles?
Do any specific Decks (that are common in the meta) warrant a heavy side-board of different support cards?
Do certain colors need different support help than others, and if so, what kind? (for example, red needs lots of evasion help, but has plenty of removal and reach in burn)
What are some dual purpose support cards?
I'd say that obviously, there are some all-stars in:
What are some others that you specifically like, and why?
I personally am fond of Athreos, God of Passage in black white decks if there is room in the 3 drop spot, simply because it forces exile, or life loss, otherwise he generates card advantage which is great for aggro. Rarely have I been sad to have him show up in an Orzhov aggro.
Athreos, God of Passage is generally a poor card in an aggro deck, but that does not mean he cannot work. If he's working for you then terrific. However he always feels like a sideboard card to help deal with control decks. Although even then he simply turns Crux of Fate into Whelming Wave.
I think the best card to help out aggro decks in a reasonable slot is Mardu Ascendancy. It helps you go wide, an aspect that gives you a form of pseudo-evasion, and protects your creatures from Drown in Sorrow et al. Whether the current meta needs it is depends on the meta at your local store. If I was running aggro in Mardu colours though, I would run it.
I think a good majority of decks use a sideboard that enables them to almost drastically change up their play, because the field is quite diverse at the moment.
For dual-purpose support cards add Boon of Erebos to that list. It: gets through extra damage; kills a creature; saves a creature. It's pretty all-star.
Could yall please elaborate a bit more on Athreos, God of Passage as to why it is such a bad card for aggro? I'm not arguing, just looking for some more explanation.
Here is how I normally use him.
Save him in my hand until I do not have anything else to play, or after I have a decent board-state. I only really want him for his effect, as it makes people think about what they have to do. They cant effectively board wipe with him there because I get a full hand of creatures. They cant effectively block my small guys with their big guys because I get them back.
I do see that it does take some tempo away from me, but which is better, having 4 creatures going to the graveyard, or having 4 creatures going back to your hand to play again?
I mainly see him as some conditional Burn/Card advantage, almost like a Browbeat on a stick.
Could yall please elaborate a bit more on Athreos, God of Passage as to why it is such a bad card for aggro? I'm not arguing, just looking for some more explanation.
Here is how I normally use him.
Save him in my hand until I do not have anything else to play, or after I have a decent board-state. I only really want him for his effect, as it makes people think about what they have to do. They cant effectively board wipe with him there because I get a full hand of creatures. They cant effectively block my small guys with their big guys because I get them back.
I do see that it does take some tempo away from me, but which is better, having 4 creatures going to the graveyard, or having 4 creatures going back to your hand to play again?
I mainly see him as some conditional Burn/Card advantage, almost like a Browbeat on a stick.
It's because he's useless if you're behind. You play a few dudes, they get Lightning Strike'd and the rest, he's in your hand, you have no board presence, they have board presence... he's not going to put in much/any work for you here.
I don't mind him against some control decks though. Mardu control he's probably not so stellar, but against B/U control he's alright. They don't have a great number of ways of dealing with him and he makes their board wipes against you pretty bad.
Thats a great point, and I've actually used that exact reasoning to cut other cards before.
My usually argument against that is, "If I'm playing aggro and I'm already behind and have no creatures, I've already lost." I still think that is true, but I do realize that there are different stages of being behind, and sometimes you can come back. As for Boon of Erebos, I do like that as well. I havent played it too much, but once I finally started drawing it, it was great.
How about a card like Sign in Blood as support for aggro, it gives some card advantage, and wouldnt be used until T4-T5 anyways most likely. Also doubles as a burn spell in the rare case that you need those last 2 damage to win. Its a rare case, but I've had occasion to use Sign in Blood to burn for the win twice now in my career. Also, the cheapness of it lets you cast it on T4 or T5 to draw into another small creature and play it.
Thats a great point, and I've actually used that exact reasoning to cut other cards before.
My usually argument against that is, "If I'm playing aggro and I'm already behind and have no creatures, I've already lost." I still think that is true, but I do realize that there are different stages of being behind, and sometimes you can come back. As for Boon of Erebos, I do like that as well. I havent played it too much, but once I finally started drawing it, it was great.
How about a card like Sign in Blood as support for aggro, it gives some card advantage, and wouldnt be used until T4-T5 anyways most likely. Also doubles as a burn spell in the rare case that you need those last 2 damage to win. Its a rare case, but I've had occasion to use Sign in Blood to burn for the win twice now in my career. Also, the cheapness of it lets you cast it on T4 or T5 to draw into another small creature and play it.
Sir, if you like card-advantage, I suggest playing something else. Aggro is all about trading card-advantage for raw speed. Aggro is about punishing your opponent's for being too ambitious. if you deviate from this basic principle, you're only going to lose more.
Fair enough haha. Yeah personally I like decks like UW heroic and other tempo builds slightly more than aggro, but if I had to choose between the three major arch types of aggro control and combo, I choose aggro. It helps to have people and advice to help me rain in my ambitions.
Fair enough haha. Yeah personally I like decks like UW heroic and other tempo builds slightly more than aggro, but if I had to choose between the three major arch types of aggro control and combo, I choose aggro. It helps to have people and advice to help me rain in my ambitions.
That is basically my personal quest. Maybe it's because because of the critique I got myself a few years ago from these forums, which in turn made me try real tournament decks a bit sooner, thus making me enjoy magic more. If you wanna draw cards, though, UW heroic seems like the perfect fit. You get to play Ordeal of Thassas and perhaps some Treasure Cruises too, and in general durdle a bit more.
The best effect of this type in standard is Mogis's Marauder. Curving out and then dropping him turn 4-5 is often just a straight-up win, and it gets even better with FRF additions like Mardu Shadowspear and Mardu Strike Leader.
Is Brutal Hordchief a good adition to these type of decks just to give it more reach.Also i agreed with Marauder that guy is a beast in agro decks.So many wins because of him
the problems currently are:
there is basicly no good agressive 2-drop. there is just none. we got plenty of really good 1-drops in different colors. 3-drops are there too.
and curvetoppers at 4 or even 5 mana are there too.
the main and biggest problem is, that the 2-drops are horrible. if ash zealot would be still in the format, or even the exalted knights who where in m13 or whereever, aggro would be fine.
we got lightning strike, shock, enough cheap removal.. but the lack of even 1 good agressive 2-drop makes it really hard to play aggro currently.
also rhino is a big problem... nearly unkillable, gets them 3 life and lightning strikes you in the face... you often just cant outrace that.
also there are too many good removal spell for more than 1 creature.. drown in sorrow and bile blight are real problems...
If you're playing red, Mardu Scout is amazing. He is a hasty 3 damage without committing to the board against decks running sweepers,and against control he must be killed by an instant. He triggers enter the battlefield and leaves the battlefield effects such as Foundry Street Denizen, Purphoros, God of the Forge, and Outpost Siege. With a 2 power one drop or FSD on turn two and on they attack for five damage a turn without leaving more than a single creature behind to be swept away. Finally, he's a goblin warrior which could be used for tribal effects such as Goblin Rabblemaster, and he provides two red devotion which is much needed for devotion strategies.
If you are playing mono black aggro, Mardu Shadowspear makes a perfect one and two drop, because the archetype can run so many one drops you actually want to cast as many as you can, but if you can't you can at least dash this guy in for hasty damage.
Regarding Atheros.... well, I do have a working decklist for him at the moment, but it is still in development and I can't share it yet. But if I had to hint at something, he has to trigger for cards your opponent does not want in your hand, so how do you create that scenario?
I don't have to play a lot against control decks at my shop so the sweepers exist but are not that common. Imo return to the ranks is one of the best to recover from a sweeper right now. I am not realy a fan of empty the pits.
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Not a specific deck, more just looking for general advice around this topic for the current standard season, and if possible, compare it to a generic standard.
For instance, I know that aggro decks, especially creature based decks, dont really need to worry about lifegain, or countering. Mainly our goal is to just kill, even if we only have 1 life, and no creatures left. Usually we like some way to protect our creatures which is sometimes difficult in the colors you are running (depending on colors).
Another thing that I have found aggro needs for support (in my limited knowledge of RTR till now) is some Reach/Evasion. Cards that give you trample, first strike, flying, unblockable, and things of that sort.
An amount of removal is usually also needed to get past some otherwise pesky roadblocks.
So some questions I'd pose, and like to start some discussion on are;
What types of support cards really shine in the current standard meta, and for what colors?
Does the meta of this standard cause aggro decks to need extra, or less, of any of these support roles?
Do any specific Decks (that are common in the meta) warrant a heavy side-board of different support cards?
Do certain colors need different support help than others, and if so, what kind? (for example, red needs lots of evasion help, but has plenty of removal and reach in burn)
What are some dual purpose support cards?
I'd say that obviously, there are some all-stars in:
What are some others that you specifically like, and why?
I personally am fond of Athreos, God of Passage in black white decks if there is room in the 3 drop spot, simply because it forces exile, or life loss, otherwise he generates card advantage which is great for aggro. Rarely have I been sad to have him show up in an Orzhov aggro.
as for your question, there is no answer to it, it all depends.
Youtube Channel
Athreos, God of Passage is generally a poor card in an aggro deck, but that does not mean he cannot work. If he's working for you then terrific. However he always feels like a sideboard card to help deal with control decks. Although even then he simply turns Crux of Fate into Whelming Wave.
I think the best card to help out aggro decks in a reasonable slot is Mardu Ascendancy. It helps you go wide, an aspect that gives you a form of pseudo-evasion, and protects your creatures from Drown in Sorrow et al. Whether the current meta needs it is depends on the meta at your local store. If I was running aggro in Mardu colours though, I would run it.
I think a good majority of decks use a sideboard that enables them to almost drastically change up their play, because the field is quite diverse at the moment.
For dual-purpose support cards add Boon of Erebos to that list. It: gets through extra damage; kills a creature; saves a creature. It's pretty all-star.
Here is how I normally use him.
Save him in my hand until I do not have anything else to play, or after I have a decent board-state. I only really want him for his effect, as it makes people think about what they have to do. They cant effectively board wipe with him there because I get a full hand of creatures. They cant effectively block my small guys with their big guys because I get them back.
I do see that it does take some tempo away from me, but which is better, having 4 creatures going to the graveyard, or having 4 creatures going back to your hand to play again?
I mainly see him as some conditional Burn/Card advantage, almost like a Browbeat on a stick.
It's because he's useless if you're behind. You play a few dudes, they get Lightning Strike'd and the rest, he's in your hand, you have no board presence, they have board presence... he's not going to put in much/any work for you here.
I don't mind him against some control decks though. Mardu control he's probably not so stellar, but against B/U control he's alright. They don't have a great number of ways of dealing with him and he makes their board wipes against you pretty bad.
My usually argument against that is, "If I'm playing aggro and I'm already behind and have no creatures, I've already lost." I still think that is true, but I do realize that there are different stages of being behind, and sometimes you can come back. As for Boon of Erebos, I do like that as well. I havent played it too much, but once I finally started drawing it, it was great.
How about a card like Sign in Blood as support for aggro, it gives some card advantage, and wouldnt be used until T4-T5 anyways most likely. Also doubles as a burn spell in the rare case that you need those last 2 damage to win. Its a rare case, but I've had occasion to use Sign in Blood to burn for the win twice now in my career. Also, the cheapness of it lets you cast it on T4 or T5 to draw into another small creature and play it.
Sir, if you like card-advantage, I suggest playing something else. Aggro is all about trading card-advantage for raw speed. Aggro is about punishing your opponent's for being too ambitious. if you deviate from this basic principle, you're only going to lose more.
Youtube Channel
That is basically my personal quest. Maybe it's because because of the critique I got myself a few years ago from these forums, which in turn made me try real tournament decks a bit sooner, thus making me enjoy magic more. If you wanna draw cards, though, UW heroic seems like the perfect fit. You get to play Ordeal of Thassas and perhaps some Treasure Cruises too, and in general durdle a bit more.
Youtube Channel
Ooh good point!!!
The best effect of this type in standard is Mogis's Marauder. Curving out and then dropping him turn 4-5 is often just a straight-up win, and it gets even better with FRF additions like Mardu Shadowspear and Mardu Strike Leader.
RDW has amazing 1s and 3s and horrendous 2s
there is basicly no good agressive 2-drop. there is just none. we got plenty of really good 1-drops in different colors. 3-drops are there too.
and curvetoppers at 4 or even 5 mana are there too.
the main and biggest problem is, that the 2-drops are horrible. if ash zealot would be still in the format, or even the exalted knights who where in m13 or whereever, aggro would be fine.
we got lightning strike, shock, enough cheap removal.. but the lack of even 1 good agressive 2-drop makes it really hard to play aggro currently.
also rhino is a big problem... nearly unkillable, gets them 3 life and lightning strikes you in the face... you often just cant outrace that.
also there are too many good removal spell for more than 1 creature.. drown in sorrow and bile blight are real problems...
If you are playing mono black aggro, Mardu Shadowspear makes a perfect one and two drop, because the archetype can run so many one drops you actually want to cast as many as you can, but if you can't you can at least dash this guy in for hasty damage.
Regarding Atheros.... well, I do have a working decklist for him at the moment, but it is still in development and I can't share it yet. But if I had to hint at something, he has to trigger for cards your opponent does not want in your hand, so how do you create that scenario?
lightning berserker
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