Another card I think is underrated is Eidolon of the Great Revel. Sure the mana cost of double red may hinder it, but I really think that it hits an absolute ton of cards currently. 2 Damage adds up fast, and it's not unlikely to have 2 out at more than one time. Almost all spot removal will make them take 2. This is especially relevant in a meta of aggro. Here's a list of relevant cards this bad boy hits in Standard.
RW aggro: Seeker of the Way, Hordeling Outburst, Gobling Rabblemaster, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Lightning Strike, Chained to the Rocks, Valorous Stance
Abzan aggro: Fleecemane Lion, Heir of the Wilds, Warden of the First Tree, Anafenza, the Foremost, Rakshasa Deathdealer, Abzan Charm, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall, Valorous Stance, Thoughtsieze
UB control: Bile Blight, Dissolve, Hero's Downfall, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Disdainful Stroke, Nullify, Dissipate, Drown in Sorrow, Despise, Thoughtseize, Negate
Abzan midrange: Courser of Kruphix, Sylvan Caryatid, Abzan Charm, Thoughtseize, Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight
UW heroic: Battlewise Hoplite, Defiant Strike, Hero of Iroas, Favored Hoplite, Ordeal of Thassa, God's Willing, every single card in this deck.
Sultai Control: Satyr Wayfinder, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Disdainful Stroke, Sultai Charm, Thoughtseize, Rakshasa's Secret, Feed the Clan, Negate, Rakshasa Deathdealer, Drown in Sorrow
At worst, it's a lightning rod for larger threats and 2 damage. At best it just destroys the opponent.
I feel like temur sabertooth is a pretty underrated card, especially in manifest G/X decks, combine it with a manifest engine like whisperwood or mastery of the unseen and you're basically getting free card advantage. Combine it with trail of mystery and you're REALLY getting free card advantage.
Underrated in that it's not being used or seen in any lists. I think people just forgot about it and how it really hurts the current meta. There's probably just not a deck to support it.
I was under the impression that the mono red aggro builds by people who could afford them tended to side them. It is admittedly less used here as opposed to modern, but standard has more direct midrangey stuff that avoids said eidolon too.
I was under the impression that the mono red aggro builds by people who could afford them tended to side them. It is admittedly less used here as opposed to modern, but standard has more direct midrangey stuff that avoids said eidolon too.
Pretty much. Whenever I see it, I can basically just ignore it because I can midrange over it, while a lower-curve red aggro deck is going to hurt itself a fair bit with it (more than I hurt myself with it out, in my experience). It's also rather painful to play Eidolon and proceed to have to stare down a Siege Rhino.
For what it is, it's not bad, but it doesn't have the same game-changing punch it has in non-rotating formats, where some decks flat-up can't win with it out, and others have to alter their gameplan drastically if they can't remove it right away. It's not really "underrated" in Standard at all.
Another card I think is underrated is Eidolon of the Great Revel. Sure the mana cost of double red may hinder it, but I really think that it hits an absolute ton of cards currently. 2 Damage adds up fast, and it's not unlikely to have 2 out at more than one time. Almost all spot removal will make them take 2. This is especially relevant in a meta of aggro. Here's a list of relevant cards this bad boy hits in Standard.
RW aggro: Seeker of the Way, Hordeling Outburst, Gobling Rabblemaster, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Lightning Strike, Chained to the Rocks, Valorous Stance
Abzan aggro: Fleecemane Lion, Heir of the Wilds, Warden of the First Tree, Anafenza, the Foremost, Rakshasa Deathdealer, Abzan Charm, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall, Valorous Stance, Thoughtsieze
UB control: Bile Blight, Dissolve, Hero's Downfall, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Disdainful Stroke, Nullify, Dissipate, Drown in Sorrow, Despise, Thoughtseize, Negate
Abzan midrange: Courser of Kruphix, Sylvan Caryatid, Abzan Charm, Thoughtseize, Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight
UW heroic: Battlewise Hoplite, Defiant Strike, Hero of Iroas, Favored Hoplite, Ordeal of Thassa, God's Willing, every single card in this deck.
Sultai Control: Satyr Wayfinder, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Disdainful Stroke, Sultai Charm, Thoughtseize, Rakshasa's Secret, Feed the Clan, Negate, Rakshasa Deathdealer, Drown in Sorrow
At worst, it's a lightning rod for larger threats and 2 damage. At best it just destroys the opponent.
Yeah I've looked at the card and honestly it just doesn't have a home in Standard. The only decks that would really want it are the red-based aggro decks, and with so much midrange in the format it just doesn't seem worth it for those decks because they'll probably just kill themselves before their opponents take too much from it. It sees play in modern though, especially in the burn deck. If someone came up with a Soulfire Grand Master RW Burn kind of list in standard I think it could see play, but outside of that I doubt it.
Temur Sabertooth is amazing in a constellation/devotion strategy. It's a little bit magical christmas land-y but constellation already is anyway. Board assembled, rebuy/play a courser with 5 mana, eidolon with 6, doomwake w/ 7 etc. Also great with Hornet Queen.
The thing about Reaper is the same as the thing about Knucleblade. People miss evaluate the mana costs of abilities. They see "1G: hexproof" in Reaper but read "Hexproof". Both cards are much weaker then what they look at first glance. Knuckleblade is a lot better through because a 4/4 for 3 is already playable by itself.
And we've already seen with Flinthoof Boar that a haste kicker for R is a strong add-on for an efficient creature. The other two abilities are just gravy. OK, so maybe the bounce for 2U is more like powdered gravy mix, but still.
honestly why doesn't it see any play at all? Sure, it's 3 life. But... whatever you kill, you're killing for 1 mana at isntant speed and it's likely it woudl've done more than 3 damage anyway.
don't be arrogant and thick. You can admit you had a different idea of the meaning, no biggie.
You realize "rated too low" doesn't mean "rated really low", right? If something is rated as good, but not great, and it is actually great, then it is underrated...which is what he said.
Shraphel Blast I wouldn't call underrated. The card see little play because standard's artifact pool is horrible at the moment. The only artifact staple is Whip which never appears in red decks. The other reasonable one is Perilous Vault, which is made to be sacrificed anyway... Thre is just no support for it.
Ember Swallower I agree. It's the strongest body/cmc ratio in red and the monstrous ability is pretty good and not hard to reach in it's colors. Specially against low lands deck such as WU heroic and Jeskai, it's game winning. The card is not great but it's good imo.
honestly why doesn't it see any play at all? Sure, it's 3 life. But... whatever you kill, you're killing for 1 mana at isntant speed and it's likely it woudl've done more than 3 damage anyway.
honestly why doesn't it see any play at all? Sure, it's 3 life. But... whatever you kill, you're killing for 1 mana at isntant speed and it's likely it woudl've done more than 3 damage anyway.
Because Bile Blight is better in 99% of situations and costing one more isn't enough to negate that.
Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury. Her battle cry effect is less relevant than Thundermaw's tap ability, but she's still a hasty 5/5 flyer for 5 on her own, she can close out games fast.
I am a bit surprised that Kiora, the Crashing Wave has not shown up much of anywhere. Are there any lists that could make good use of her?
The only deck that plays her is Sultai control.
I wouldn't consider Kiora "underrated". Although good, starting at two loyalty really decreases the effectiveness of that planeswalker. If you +1 she can still be bolted or killed by any haste creature currently in standard. I don't like her for that reason.
On the flip side... if she started with 3 loyalty she would probably be too good : /
I am a bit surprised that Kiora, the Crashing Wave has not shown up much of anywhere. Are there any lists that could make good use of her?
The only deck that plays her is Sultai control.
I wouldn't consider Kiora "underrated". Although good, starting at two loyalty really decreases the effectiveness of that planeswalker. If you +1 she can still be bolted or killed by any haste creature currently in standard. I don't like her for that reason.
On the flip side... if she started with 3 loyalty she would probably be too good : /
I guess. I am trying her out in a U/G manifest build to see how she fares in that shell.
I have played a G/W Manifest deck with it. It has been Bonkers. 15 games 3 Game Days 1 FNM 10 wins 2 losses 3 ties
and now with more Ugin! lol. Manifest a bunch Ugin the Field away. Beat down. took a Abzan Player down from 157 life (I was 198 Life) to 0 in a few turns beating down with 45+ point life swings. It is Ramp when you want ramp it is life gain always. and Ugin, what not to like.
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Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
I have played a G/W Manifest deck with it. It has been Bonkers. 15 games 3 Game Days 1 FNM 10 wins 2 losses 3 ties
and now with more Ugin! lol. Manifest a bunch Ugin the Field away. Beat down. took a Abzan Player down from 157 life (I was 198 Life) to 0 in a few turns beating down with 45+ point life swings. It is Ramp when you want ramp it is life gain always. and Ugin, what not to like.
I won a game day with GW Manifest playing Mastery also. Though things never got quite as bonkers as your game (I didn't even play Ugin), it was quite amusing to run over an Elspeth and an Ugin in the same game.
It's the driving engine in my 24 reveal-morph creature casual deck. The four in the deck aren't even meant to be cast: just sit in my hand so the 24 reveal-morph creatures in my deck can abuse Trail of Mystery and Mastery of the Unseen. And should I eventually want to bestow him, 1 of the 2 Prognostic Sphinx in the deck have made it into play by then.
One of my favourite cards from Khans block: Retribution of the Ancients. It can be awkward, but in the right deck this card is obscene; it kills everything.
Has anyone mentioned Plummet?? With Mantis Rider, Stormbreath, Wingmate Roc, Butcher, and a bunch of other high-caiber fliers in so many decks, I don't see why this isn't a prominent sideboard card, especially for decks like sultai reanimator that struggle with fliers to some extent. A lot of the other removal isn't always optimal--Murderous Cut is sometimes too slow if you can't fill your graveyard in the first couple turns, Hero's Downfall is harder to cast and better saved for walkers, Valorous Stance misses Stormbreath and Mantis Rider, Stoke the Flames is the only reliable burn spell, Bile Blight only hits Rider. I think Plummet is overlooked and I think I'm gonna try 1 or 2-of to see how it performs.
just too narrow. Similar to why Dark Betrayal sees little play
ALOT of decks run black creatures, but it just doesn't hit enough.
Although I'm happy it's picking up a little bit of popularity, I feel Interpret the Signs isn't as popular as i should be. Alot of people i know that copy UB or sultai lsits remove that card from the list for some reason.
I have played a G/W Manifest deck with it. It has been Bonkers. 15 games 3 Game Days 1 FNM 10 wins 2 losses 3 ties
and now with more Ugin! lol. Manifest a bunch Ugin the Field away. Beat down. took a Abzan Player down from 157 life (I was 198 Life) to 0 in a few turns beating down with 45+ point life swings. It is Ramp when you want ramp it is life gain always. and Ugin, what not to like.
Mastery is actually getting alot of love recently. Alot of RW decks have begun to implement it as a SB option vs midrange/control.
just too narrow. Similar to why Dark Betrayal sees little play
ALOT of decks run black creatures, but it just doesn't hit enough.
Although I'm happy it's picking up a little bit of popularity, I feel Interpret the Signs isn't as popular as i should be. Alot of people i know that copy UB or sultai lsits remove that card from the list for some reason.
I feel like signs is a "win more card". Main reason I don't include it.
Not 100% how underrated it is but I really think monastery siege deserves more play. It's all around just a solid card, helps fix your draws every turn all while fueling delve strategies.
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RW aggro: Seeker of the Way, Hordeling Outburst, Gobling Rabblemaster, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Lightning Strike, Chained to the Rocks, Valorous Stance
Abzan aggro: Fleecemane Lion, Heir of the Wilds, Warden of the First Tree, Anafenza, the Foremost, Rakshasa Deathdealer, Abzan Charm, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall, Valorous Stance, Thoughtsieze
UB control: Bile Blight, Dissolve, Hero's Downfall, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Disdainful Stroke, Nullify, Dissipate, Drown in Sorrow, Despise, Thoughtseize, Negate
Abzan midrange: Courser of Kruphix, Sylvan Caryatid, Abzan Charm, Thoughtseize, Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight
UW heroic: Battlewise Hoplite, Defiant Strike, Hero of Iroas, Favored Hoplite, Ordeal of Thassa, God's Willing, every single card in this deck.
Sultai Control: Satyr Wayfinder, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Disdainful Stroke, Sultai Charm, Thoughtseize, Rakshasa's Secret, Feed the Clan, Negate, Rakshasa Deathdealer, Drown in Sorrow
At worst, it's a lightning rod for larger threats and 2 damage. At best it just destroys the opponent.
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Trade with me!! Always in search of cards!
Find me on TappedOut also!
Trade with me!! Always in search of cards!
Pretty much. Whenever I see it, I can basically just ignore it because I can midrange over it, while a lower-curve red aggro deck is going to hurt itself a fair bit with it (more than I hurt myself with it out, in my experience). It's also rather painful to play Eidolon and proceed to have to stare down a Siege Rhino.
For what it is, it's not bad, but it doesn't have the same game-changing punch it has in non-rotating formats, where some decks flat-up can't win with it out, and others have to alter their gameplan drastically if they can't remove it right away. It's not really "underrated" in Standard at all.
Yeah I've looked at the card and honestly it just doesn't have a home in Standard. The only decks that would really want it are the red-based aggro decks, and with so much midrange in the format it just doesn't seem worth it for those decks because they'll probably just kill themselves before their opponents take too much from it. It sees play in modern though, especially in the burn deck. If someone came up with a Soulfire Grand Master RW Burn kind of list in standard I think it could see play, but outside of that I doubt it.
Ha, thanks!
And we've already seen with Flinthoof Boar that a haste kicker for R is a strong add-on for an efficient creature. The other two abilities are just gravy. OK, so maybe the bounce for 2U is more like powdered gravy mix, but still.
honestly why doesn't it see any play at all? Sure, it's 3 life. But... whatever you kill, you're killing for 1 mana at isntant speed and it's likely it woudl've done more than 3 damage anyway.
You realize "rated too low" doesn't mean "rated really low", right? If something is rated as good, but not great, and it is actually great, then it is underrated...which is what he said.
My picks would probably be Ember Swallower and Shrapnel Blast.
Ember Swallower I agree. It's the strongest body/cmc ratio in red and the monstrous ability is pretty good and not hard to reach in it's colors. Specially against low lands deck such as WU heroic and Jeskai, it's game winning. The card is not great but it's good imo.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Because Bile Blight is better in 99% of situations and costing one more isn't enough to negate that.
The only deck that plays her is Sultai control.
I wouldn't consider Kiora "underrated". Although good, starting at two loyalty really decreases the effectiveness of that planeswalker. If you +1 she can still be bolted or killed by any haste creature currently in standard. I don't like her for that reason.
On the flip side... if she started with 3 loyalty she would probably be too good : /
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I guess. I am trying her out in a U/G manifest build to see how she fares in that shell.
I have played a G/W Manifest deck with it. It has been Bonkers. 15 games 3 Game Days 1 FNM 10 wins 2 losses 3 ties
and now with more Ugin! lol. Manifest a bunch Ugin the Field away. Beat down. took a Abzan Player down from 157 life (I was 198 Life) to 0 in a few turns beating down with 45+ point life swings. It is Ramp when you want ramp it is life gain always. and Ugin, what not to like.
I won a game day with GW Manifest playing Mastery also. Though things never got quite as bonkers as your game (I didn't even play Ugin), it was quite amusing to run over an Elspeth and an Ugin in the same game.
It's the driving engine in my 24 reveal-morph creature casual deck. The four in the deck aren't even meant to be cast: just sit in my hand so the 24 reveal-morph creatures in my deck can abuse Trail of Mystery and Mastery of the Unseen. And should I eventually want to bestow him, 1 of the 2 Prognostic Sphinx in the deck have made it into play by then.
ALOT of decks run black creatures, but it just doesn't hit enough.
Although I'm happy it's picking up a little bit of popularity, I feel Interpret the Signs isn't as popular as i should be. Alot of people i know that copy UB or sultai lsits remove that card from the list for some reason.
Mastery is actually getting alot of love recently. Alot of RW decks have begun to implement it as a SB option vs midrange/control.
I feel like signs is a "win more card". Main reason I don't include it.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA