Although this is very general in nature... some tips would be greatly appreciated:
I have a problem with keeping deck sizes down. I usually end up with fat decks of 80+ cards. I tend to put 4x cards into the deck and have trouble weeding out specific spells. Is it better to chop the deck and include more 2x cards vs rolling 4 of a kind? I know it depends on x and y but overall - what are some ideas that experienced players can share? Is it in my best interest to keep the deck size down?
I always keep my deck size to the minimum 60. If you're running a Battle of Wits deck then that's an exception. You mainly want to keep 60 to keep you probabilities as high as you can. Your chance of drawing into the important cards that you keep 4 copies of is greater in a 60 card deck than an 80 card deck. Some general tips on deciding numbers of cards are:
Is it important to the deck and do you want to see the card every game? Then make it 4x.
Is it not overly important to the deck and you want to see it almost every game? Make it 3x.
Is it somewhat narrow and not entirely important to the deck? 2x.
There are times when you might also want 1 copy of a card, but that's based on meta and preference and some other factors. Of course the above criteria are very general and don't take into account if you have a lot of Card draw spells, fetch/search spells and things of that nature.
If you're struggling to reduce your numbers, I'd suggest first unraveling your deck completely. Then add in cards to your deck, starting with those you consider the most important, until you reach 36. Then add 24 lands. Once you hit 36 nonland cards, specifically don't add anymore.
Once you've done this, playtest to see what cards you want more/less of and add and reduce as necessary.
This happens to alot of new players, but at least you're only at 80 and not 120. As was stated earlier if you can let us know what you're working with that will help us be more specific. I know net decking is frowned upon in most cases but if you're trying to make a semi well know archtype you should go look at others deck list and see what they run and why. Best thing to do as a beginning deck builder is learn how mana curves work toward a specific strategy. Main problem I see with alot of decks running more than 60 cards is there tends to be a massive chunk of 5+cmc spells with no regard to the curve or how you are gonna survive the early game. I would honestly start looking there unless you're running a bunch of mana dorks.
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Trying to make crappy pet cards work since 2002.
I'm usually typing quickly at work or on my phone so I appolize from the crummy grammar
This is fantastic feedback guys.. really appreciate the time you're taking to offer up advice. I am going to unravel some of these decks and rebuild using the tips offered. Once I do that, I will post the deck and the cards I removed and I look forward to the feedback.
Above, it was mentioned that you pick out 36 cards and then add 24 lands.. I have always thought that you go 2:1 nonlands to lands? Is this wrong of me to assume this is sort of a static necessity to deck building?
24 also being the starting number until you learn when it is ok to cut/add lands. New deck builders (and even some veteran ones) are always over eager to cut a land before they cut a spell when they shouldn't because land aren't seen as fun or exciting.
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There are times when you might also want 1 copy of a card, but that's based on meta and preference and some other factors. Of course the above criteria are very general and don't take into account if you have a lot of Card draw spells, fetch/search spells and things of that nature.
I've struggled to understand why players include 1-ofs in decks. Can you offer any rationale for this? 1/60 for a card is the slimmest of odds!
1-ofs are there for a variety of reasons. If you have a way to tutor them reliably but it's something you almost never want to see it can be a 1-of (e.g. Reclamation Sage with Chord of Calling in Standard.) Sometimes you want more than 4 copies of an effect, so you run a 1-of something very similar (e.g. Despise after you play 4 Thoughtseize.) Sometimes it's a powerful effect to break parity after the game has gone long, and it isn't part of the main strategy (e.g. the occasional pre-Khans Delver lists in Modern running a single Sword of Fire and Ice.) There are a fair number of strategies that can still make use of single copies of narrow powerful cards, especially when having more than one would be poor. In the case of Delver decks, they also run enough cantrips and cheap spells that they can dig through their deck reliably enough to hit a 1-of if they need it.
W1nter521 explained it pretty well. A lot of times there might be a one of because you just have the empty slot so you add in something that might be useful. Sometimes I might also have a single copy of a card because it's above my curve, but will still be useful if the game gets drawn out. There's a lot of reasons and sometimes it boils down to personal preference. For the most part I don't run random 1-ofs in my decks though.
Although this is very general in nature... some tips would be greatly appreciated:
I have a problem with keeping deck sizes down. I usually end up with fat decks of 80+ cards. I tend to put 4x cards into the deck and have trouble weeding out specific spells. Is it better to chop the deck and include more 2x cards vs rolling 4 of a kind? I know it depends on x and y but overall - what are some ideas that experienced players can share? Is it in my best interest to keep the deck size down?
Thanks for any input.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Is it important to the deck and do you want to see the card every game? Then make it 4x.
Is it not overly important to the deck and you want to see it almost every game? Make it 3x.
Is it somewhat narrow and not entirely important to the deck? 2x.
There are times when you might also want 1 copy of a card, but that's based on meta and preference and some other factors. Of course the above criteria are very general and don't take into account if you have a lot of Card draw spells, fetch/search spells and things of that nature.
Also, this article can be extremely helpful if you have trouble building better decks. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/competitive/128633-how-to-build-better-decks
Once you've done this, playtest to see what cards you want more/less of and add and reduce as necessary.
I'm usually typing quickly at work or on my phone so I appolize from the crummy grammar
Above, it was mentioned that you pick out 36 cards and then add 24 lands.. I have always thought that you go 2:1 nonlands to lands? Is this wrong of me to assume this is sort of a static necessity to deck building?
Thanks again!
I'm usually typing quickly at work or on my phone so I appolize from the crummy grammar
I've struggled to understand why players include 1-ofs in decks. Can you offer any rationale for this? 1/60 for a card is the slimmest of odds!
BW Warriors
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