As is usually the case, the first Standard competitive-class deck I've managed to assemble is Boss Sligh. Not hard to do, since it lost very little in rotation and gained Monastery Swiftspear and some other interesting combat tricks.
Trouble is, I did lousy with Sligh last Standard because every time I brought Boss Sligh, everybody else packed G/R/x Midrange. I'd spend the whole night watching turn 1 mana dork ramp into turn 2 Courser and turn 3 Polukranos with Domri Rade and Stormbreath Dragon right behind it.
This Standard, I play-test Boss Sligh against this season's Abzan midrange, and it's just giving me flashbacks to those 2-2 nights. Even with Frenzied Goblin, Hammerhand, Harness by Force, and even main-boarding Blinding Flare, it seems like it's all I can do to get a tiny poke through before I'm looking at a solid wall of blocking beef. Boss Sligh is playing for me like a glass canon - the God-hand draws dish out turn 4 lethal alright, but there's too many hands where I'm stuck with 1 Foundry Street Denizen, 1 Frenzied Goblin, 2 land, and 3 burn spells that are too small to take out Courser into Rhino. Even if I get game 1, game 2's Drown in Sorrow sinks me.
I must suck at Sligh. I can never seem to do as well with it as other decks. What am I doing wrong?
I played it at our last FNM Standard and did fine. It depends on your local meta and how familiar you are with the deck (I have been playing it since early Spring). Despite looking really simple, if you are not used to playing an aggro deck like Sligh you can and will still loose. I actually watched a friend of mine try to play my deck and just constantly misplay because he is so used to playing slow roll control decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
People that say aggro is easy to play don't know what they're talking about.
You have very limited resources in which to do 20 damage and with things like Courser and Rhino about you have to do even more than 20 damage.
I have no idea what the metagame had to look like at GP LA for 2 mono red aggro decks to make the top 8. I think the metagame was full of Jeskai decks that have limited creatures and no life gain. Now the metagame has shifted to green midrange decks and sideboards have effective hate for aggro mono red is no longer as good.
I'm thinking about building it to play at FNM because I have most of the cards just to see what it's like. That way I'd be able to get a better feel for what it's like and give a more informed opinion on it.
Yes, I seem to do good against Jeskai as well and so-so against Mardu midrange. But bring green into the equation = might as well scoop. Maybe GP LA had a lot of Jeskai Ascendancy combo decks out, because Sligh can definitely mow those down just by sheer speed.
One thing I'm thinking of is to simply main-board 4x Hall of Triumph, full stop. Jack these little guys up to size.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This signature holds priority until end of comment.
The key to this deck in the current standard meta is to concentrate on those abilities that prevent creatures from blocking. I've definitely seen this deck played and Polukranos just stood there unable to block. And when things finally do stabilize against the red player, it should be all about the stoke the flames or harness by force/act of treason getting the last bit in.
People often think that you need to maximize early damage as much as possible with Boss Sligh, but if you have Hammerhand and they have no blocker, just hit them, watch them put down their rhino and then get in again using the Hammerhand you held. I've also noticed that people will always prefer the Monastery Swiftspear in a given turn over the Frenzied Goblin, when the better play is often setting up the shutting down of blocking and playing the swiftspear next turn.
One thing I'm thinking of is to simply main-board 4x Hall of Triumph, full stop. Jack these little guys up to size.
It may sound odd, but all those halls are actually way too slow for the deck. It is not uncommon to not even get past two lands when playing Sligh and it is best to keep you spells in the 1-2 cmc range (Rabble-Red plays a bit differently).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
1 hall is debatable. 4 halls is a definite no. It is sad in multiples, pretty high cost, not a push through, and isn't quick. I personally think that 1 belongs in side. Instead, practice, practice, and practice some more. You can do a small shift towards combat tricks if you want but you aren't packing a reasonable burn package for nothing. Keep to the plan. Get in there. Finish the job be it by burn out or evasion. This is one of those decks that practice makes perfect.
Oh, I'll definitely acknowledge the "easy to hate out" part. That's actually where I'm going with the Hall of Triumph; even one anthem out makes Swiftspear survive a Drown in Sorrow, at least. But decks are rarely prepared for Sligh, that's the point. It's a fringe deck, at least currently.
I figure I can always build up into Jeskai or Mardu. It's not like Foundry Street Denizens were a huge investment or anything.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This signature holds priority until end of comment.
Circle is one of the reasons to sb hall. But I think it says plenty that there's just one in sb, meaning that you will have to dig (usually though time) to get it remotely consistently. Boss sligh will often just try to win game 1 and bet on whether the opponent is playing and can get the appropriate silver bullets to shoot them with.
If you're up for the challenge and you like playing hyper-aggressive deck, absolutely, especially if your meta is full of G/x devotion (they rarely play anger) and control.
One thing I'm thinking of is to simply main-board 4x Hall of Triumph, full stop. Jack these little guys up to size.
It's legendary, so you can't have more than one out at a time, and even so it's kind of a dead card in a red deck wins kind of deck - you're not focused on board presence with RDW, you're focused on rushing down your opponent's life as fast as possible. I feel like playing around getting your board set up, getting multiple creatures out, and sticking them instead of just going to the face constantly is going about it with the wrong mindset.
Boss Sligh decks aren't that bad at my fnm, one guy usually places top 4 with one. The deck is on pace if it has you below 10 by the end of its 3rd turn without using burn. at that point, it doesn't matter if your board gets swept by anger or drown in sorrow or circle of flame, you will still win with burn. a well played boss sligh is difficult to beat if they win the roll to go first. The red player only needs about 10-12 points of damage out of his early aggro before it gets swept, then can win with burn, and +1 life per turn starting turn 3 or 4 from courser isn't enough to outpace those last couple stokes that finish you off t4/t5. What the red deck does exceptionally well is put massive pressure on the opposing player to have the correct answers very early in the game.
Yes, I seem to do good against Jeskai as well and so-so against Mardu midrange. But bring green into the equation = might as well scoop. Maybe GP LA had a lot of Jeskai Ascendancy combo decks out, because Sligh can definitely mow those down just by sheer speed.
One thing I'm thinking of is to simply main-board 4x Hall of Triumph, full stop. Jack these little guys up to size.
That's surprising, in honesty, as Jeskai seems the best suited or dealing with Sligh. They have cheap burn packages they can side into, Seeker poses a significant roadblock that requires being dealt with, and Mantis Rider is just plain dumb against aggro matches. Equally, I've always found that G/R/x devotion strategies pretty much fold to Sligh, as they typically spend 3-4 turns setting up, and can't really afford to block profitably with Mystics/Voyaging Satyrs. Seems strange that you seem to have the exact opposite experience. The main reason I *don't* play mono-red right now is because of how congested the local meta is with Jeskai. Last friday I counted at least 15 of them, out of 50-ish people. Three out of five rounds in swiss were jeskai, and 4 of the top 8 were also.
There are different routes to play aggro, and I'd suggest watching Tom Ross play it out (Including his Infect games in Legacy) for good primers.
I played sligh a lot during the last standard, mostly because I absolutely loathed playing against U/W control with Sphinx's Rev and I absolutely loved responding with Skullcrack. Unfortunately, red players don't get Skullcrack this standard.
My biggest problem with current sligh decks is that they are a little too creature reliant, which is why they are hated out so easily with Circle of Flame, Doomwake Giant, Drown in Sorrow, Bile Blight, etc. Personally, I think sligh decks need to run more to-the-face burn (at least in the sideboard) to provide reach against all the hate cards and high-toughness creatures. I also don't quite understand why Harness by Force isn't more popular in sideboards (beyond the current 1 or 2 of); there are tons of decks with great targets for these cards and there are a lot of creatures that can be grabbed for a total blowout.
I don't know why everybody keeps talking about G/R/x as if it were still played; that was last Standard. I haven't seen a Mystic or Voyaging Satyr in months. I'm talking about G/W/B, Abzan Midrange. Here's the typical play sequence in Abzan:
T1 land
T2 Sylvan caryatid - It's a 0/3, so you can't punch through it without pump, and it's hexproof, so you can't burn it away and also can't target it with anti-blocking effects. It's early-game mana ramp and late-game damage sponge.
T3 Courser of Kruphix - The butt's too big to burn with anything less than Stoke the Flames, and it's going to accelerate their draws and gain them life.
T4 Hornet Nest - You don't dare attack into it or burn it, or it releases deathtouch blocking tokens. Alternately they'll drop Polukranos, just a big 5/5 obstacle that can eat your board when it activates monstrous.
T5 Begin chaining Siege Rhinos - butt's too big to burn, too big to punch through, and it gains them life to mitigate previous damage.
T6-on Elspeth and Sorin, both champs against aggro. Sorin's +1 is particularly relevant.
Sure, you can attack in under Abzan game 1 on the play. Game 2, you're on the draw and they've sided in Drown in Sorrow. Hammerhand and Frenzied Goblin can only nullify blockers so long. Even mainboard Blinding Flare and Harness are only one-turn answers. And if you're using lots of anti-blocking tech, you're doing far less damage per swing. God help you if they ramp into Polukranos or Rhino turn 3. I didn't even mention Brimaz, but in decks that run him, that's yet one more problem.
By comparison, Jeskai Tempo is a breeze. Rabblemaster and Seeker die to literally every burn spell Sligh runs, Lightning Strike takes out Mantis Rider, and their threats are too sparse to recover. True, they can side in Anger game 2, but every creature they run also dies to Anger, so then they have to hold back. Spot removal against Sligh is a joke; spot removal against them is devastating. Ironically, it's easy to out-tempo Jeskai Tempo. If they stick a Brimaz game 2, that's hard to deal with, but not insurmountable. Brimaz is much easier to dust off when he's not flanked by 4/5s and 5/5s.
I know Tom Ross does it right; funny thing is, I usually never see Ross playing against Abzan. Every venue he comes to just seems to be loaded with weak competition. My local meta is going to set their card collection on fire and quit Magic forever once Caryatid, Courser, and Polukranos rotate out. I think they sleep with them under their pillows.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This signature holds priority until end of comment.
That's a great idea. Wait - WHAT burn? We get Lightning Strike and Stoke the Flames, maybe a couple Magma Jet is worth it, everything else is either too costly or doesn't go to the face.
I also don't quite understand why Harness by Force
It's a 3-mana card in a deck that really doesn't get those reliable land drops, and it's only a 1-turn answer. I've tried up to four Harness and even a couple Act of Treason. It just doesn't get there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This signature holds priority until end of comment.
I don't know why everybody keeps talking about G/R/x as if it were still played; that was last Standard. I haven't seen a Mystic or Voyaging Satyr in months. I'm talking about G/W/B, Abzan Midrange. Here's the typical play sequence in Abzan:
Devotion still exists, with the main draw being a game winning Crater's Claws for X+2, as well as Hornet Queen. It's not as dominant as last year, but certainly is a thing. It's represented at my LGS relatively well each week, but by no means as popular as last season. It folds hard to Jeskai, however, as it can't deal with Mantis Rider very well or direct damage. It's a poor choice for a deck for the time being given how popular Jeskai is pretty much in general.
T1 land
T2 Sylvan caryatid - It's a 0/3, so you can't punch through it without pump, and it's hexproof, so you can't burn it away and also can't target it with anti-blocking effects. It's early-game mana ramp and late-game damage sponge.
T3 Courser of Kruphix - The butt's too big to burn with anything less than Stoke the Flames, and it's going to accelerate their draws and gain them life.
T4 Hornet Nest - You don't dare attack into it or burn it, or it releases deathtouch blocking tokens. Alternately they'll drop Polukranos, just a big 5/5 obstacle that can eat your board when it activates monstrous.
T5 Begin chaining Siege Rhinos - butt's too big to burn, too big to punch through, and it gains them life to mitigate previous damage.
T6-on Elspeth and Sorin, both champs against aggro. Sorin's +1 is particularly relevant.
There are ways around Caryatid, or at least to get it off the table. You either go wide with a huge board presence/Rabblemaster or use some sort of pump such as Titan's Strength. They're annoying, but manageable. Same goes for Courser. Sometimes you just have to accept it's sticking around. Or Titan's Strength a Swiftspear or the ilk. Frenzied Goblin also makes it less than ideal of a blocker, and even gaining 1 life a turn isn't going to help them much. There are more ways to get around blockers than just burning them away; you can go wide with more creatures than they can block, provide unprofitable blockers, or don't allow them into combat. All of these are viable solutions, and all of them have their place in Mono-Red aggro. Which is right is context dependant. Sometimes it's even right just to attack into it and let the chips fall.
[quote]
Sure, you can attack in under Abzan game 1 on the play. Game 2, you're on the draw and they've sided in Drown in Sorrow. Hammerhand and Frenzied Goblin can only nullify blockers so long. Even mainboard Blinding Flare and Harness are only one-turn answers. And if you're using lots of anti-blocking tech, you're doing far less damage per swing. God help you if they ramp into Polukranos or Rhino turn 3. I didn't even mention Brimaz, but in decks that run him, that's yet one more problem.
Drown is problematic, but they need to side the full four to have a good chance of getting it early enough to matter, and even then you could get lucky. That said, Mono-Red is always much better on the play than on the draw. That said, if you really are worried about drown, then don't play into it. Or you just accept you can't beat it, and play on. They may very well not have it.
Rhino on turn 3 likely involves the use of a not-insignificant number of painlands, meaning that the life they gain is more arbitrage than actual lifegain. Polukranos, on the other hand, is incredibly difficult to beat, doubly so if they untap with it. That said, baiting them into a block by making a "bad" swing and finishing it with burn is not at all unreasonable to do. Sometimes you do need to accept that you're losing something. You just need to decide when that is.
Add in that the deck, as stated, uses significant number of painlands and you can likely lock them out of the game with a decent draw. They can't reasonably go below 4-5 life, and that's the point you need to get them to. They will be forced to play around Strike/Stoke. It's also not the quickest strategy, and has no real means of consistently playing out its deck. Honestly, I feel Abzan was one of the most hyped decks post-rotation. It has good stuff, but that's about it.
By comparison, Jeskai Tempo is a breeze. Rabblemaster and Seeker die to literally every burn spell Sligh runs, Lightning Strike takes out Mantis Rider, and their threats are too sparse to recover. True, they can side in Anger game 2, but every creature they run also dies to Anger, so then they have to hold back. Spot removal against Sligh is a joke; spot removal against them is devastating. Ironically, it's easy to out-tempo Jeskai Tempo. If they stick a Brimaz game 2, that's hard to deal with, but not insurmountable. Brimaz is much easier to dust off when he's not flanked by 4/5s and 5/5s.
If they keep in rabblemaster, they deserve to lose. That said, the issue with Jeskai is a few things: First, cards like Mantis Rider and Seeker require removal almost immediately. You can't go wide around them, as an attack from Seeker will more than likely gain them life and put them further out of range, as well as reducing your board presence. Mantis Rider is similar, as it can both attack and play defense very well. Yes, you *can* remove them, but it requires immediate removal before they get out of hand. Equally, they have access to all the same removal as you do, and usually more given what they sideboard. Their creatures are better, they have a better mid to late game, and generally shouldn't have much issue keeping yours off the field. That's the issue. Jeskai and Mono-Red are playing the same game, only Jeskai has better creatures. That's not a good sign.
I know Tom Ross does it right; funny thing is, I usually never see Ross playing against Abzan. Every venue he comes to just seems to be loaded with weak competition. My local meta is going to set their card collection on fire and quit Magic forever once Caryatid, Courser, and Polukranos rotate out. I think they sleep with them under their pillows.
I think Abzan just is getting poorly represented in general at the higher seats as tournaments go on. I have no doubt Ross has played against plenty of Abzan decks and won. It's still a good deck, so good players make the top 8 with it. But plenty of bad players pick it up because they wrongfully think it's the "best deck".
SCG Live has a system to how they do things. And from what I've seen, Tom Ross doesn't usually show up in coverage until rounds 4-5 in general. I think this has to do with the fact that everybody knows what he's playing. Boss Sligh for standard, Infect for legacy. At least that's a decent part of it. It could well be that he's passed the Abzan test early on, and is getting paired with other decks later. I'd have to look closer next time, but that's my feeling given how their coverage works. I'm also loathe to define the meta based on SCG Live coverage alone. They tend to inadvertantly over-define the meta by showing several matches with a single deck.
That said, baiting them into a block by making a "bad" swing and finishing it with burn is not at all unreasonable to do.
Yes, I've thought of that. Yes, I've tried that. No, it doesn't work. Gee, let's 2-for-1 ourselves turn after turn against a deck with ramp and card advantage. Especially in a deck running 8 creature enchantments for additional 2-for-1 opportunities and no way to draw ahead.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This signature holds priority until end of comment.
That's a great idea. Wait - WHAT burn? We get Lightning Strike and Stoke the Flames, maybe a couple Magma Jet is worth it, everything else is either too costly or doesn't go to the face.
Yeah, I understand that the efficient monored burn options are limited right now and red needs another good option printed, hopefully in Fate. I guess my point is that sligh decks aren't even running all that is available. The lists I see are like 4 Stoke and 2 Strike main and maybe 2 Strike side. No Jets. Last standard, a lot of sligh decks failed to run Shock, which I also thought was a mistake.
Reconsidering, I think I'm just tilted from a few games. I have been overly negative in this thread.
I also did seek out some Tom Ross games and guess what, he's lost to Abzan Midrange too. Making the same plays I do, playing the same kinds of decks I do. If he can lose sometimes and still be Tom Ross, I can quit expecting perfect 5-0s every Friday. I'm not the only player in the world who wants to win.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This signature holds priority until end of comment.
Boss Sligh is really good at the moment better than I thought. I found that you have to really go after them and not worry so much about building your board. This deck can win in a hury if you don't interact with them in the first three turns.
I'm at the point where I just want to build whatever decks hate out Abzan.
With Smoochy currently at one-fourth of the meta with everybody else scrambling to catch up, I'm sure a lot of us are with you. We should just start an "Abzan takedown" thread.
I did think of something, and this is really, really stupid. Do not take this seriously, but it does show an interesting possible avenue: Pure evasion. Mono-blue flyers and unblockable...
Wingmate Roc aside, most Abzan decks don't run flyers. All their blockers are ground-pounders. Fly over their heads with a Sligh-style aggro blitz, removal be damned, just keep the wave coming. Lethal by about turn 5, even with Rhino drops. Evasion gets rid of planeswalker too. No enchants because of spot removal; artifacts can be recycled from body to body.
It may be toast to every other deck, but it is a strategy against Abzan.
Trouble is, I did lousy with Sligh last Standard because every time I brought Boss Sligh, everybody else packed G/R/x Midrange. I'd spend the whole night watching turn 1 mana dork ramp into turn 2 Courser and turn 3 Polukranos with Domri Rade and Stormbreath Dragon right behind it.
This Standard, I play-test Boss Sligh against this season's Abzan midrange, and it's just giving me flashbacks to those 2-2 nights. Even with Frenzied Goblin, Hammerhand, Harness by Force, and even main-boarding Blinding Flare, it seems like it's all I can do to get a tiny poke through before I'm looking at a solid wall of blocking beef. Boss Sligh is playing for me like a glass canon - the God-hand draws dish out turn 4 lethal alright, but there's too many hands where I'm stuck with 1 Foundry Street Denizen, 1 Frenzied Goblin, 2 land, and 3 burn spells that are too small to take out Courser into Rhino. Even if I get game 1, game 2's Drown in Sorrow sinks me.
I must suck at Sligh. I can never seem to do as well with it as other decks. What am I doing wrong?
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
People that say aggro is easy to play don't know what they're talking about.
You have very limited resources in which to do 20 damage and with things like Courser and Rhino about you have to do even more than 20 damage.
I have no idea what the metagame had to look like at GP LA for 2 mono red aggro decks to make the top 8. I think the metagame was full of Jeskai decks that have limited creatures and no life gain. Now the metagame has shifted to green midrange decks and sideboards have effective hate for aggro mono red is no longer as good.
I'm thinking about building it to play at FNM because I have most of the cards just to see what it's like. That way I'd be able to get a better feel for what it's like and give a more informed opinion on it.
One thing I'm thinking of is to simply main-board 4x Hall of Triumph, full stop. Jack these little guys up to size.
People often think that you need to maximize early damage as much as possible with Boss Sligh, but if you have Hammerhand and they have no blocker, just hit them, watch them put down their rhino and then get in again using the Hammerhand you held. I've also noticed that people will always prefer the Monastery Swiftspear in a given turn over the Frenzied Goblin, when the better play is often setting up the shutting down of blocking and playing the swiftspear next turn.
It may sound odd, but all those halls are actually way too slow for the deck. It is not uncommon to not even get past two lands when playing Sligh and it is best to keep you spells in the 1-2 cmc range (Rabble-Red plays a bit differently).
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
in other words, I think it is too easily hated out to be a serious contender
I figure I can always build up into Jeskai or Mardu. It's not like Foundry Street Denizens were a huge investment or anything.
Turn 4 nearly every deck had me neutralized.
Most of the time they did it with a combination of minor life gain and some removal.
As most people pointed put G/R/X is everywhere with burn, fatties and life gain.
It's legendary, so you can't have more than one out at a time, and even so it's kind of a dead card in a red deck wins kind of deck - you're not focused on board presence with RDW, you're focused on rushing down your opponent's life as fast as possible. I feel like playing around getting your board set up, getting multiple creatures out, and sticking them instead of just going to the face constantly is going about it with the wrong mindset.
That's surprising, in honesty, as Jeskai seems the best suited or dealing with Sligh. They have cheap burn packages they can side into, Seeker poses a significant roadblock that requires being dealt with, and Mantis Rider is just plain dumb against aggro matches. Equally, I've always found that G/R/x devotion strategies pretty much fold to Sligh, as they typically spend 3-4 turns setting up, and can't really afford to block profitably with Mystics/Voyaging Satyrs. Seems strange that you seem to have the exact opposite experience. The main reason I *don't* play mono-red right now is because of how congested the local meta is with Jeskai. Last friday I counted at least 15 of them, out of 50-ish people. Three out of five rounds in swiss were jeskai, and 4 of the top 8 were also.
There are different routes to play aggro, and I'd suggest watching Tom Ross play it out (Including his Infect games in Legacy) for good primers.
My biggest problem with current sligh decks is that they are a little too creature reliant, which is why they are hated out so easily with Circle of Flame, Doomwake Giant, Drown in Sorrow, Bile Blight, etc. Personally, I think sligh decks need to run more to-the-face burn (at least in the sideboard) to provide reach against all the hate cards and high-toughness creatures. I also don't quite understand why Harness by Force isn't more popular in sideboards (beyond the current 1 or 2 of); there are tons of decks with great targets for these cards and there are a lot of creatures that can be grabbed for a total blowout.
Sure, you can attack in under Abzan game 1 on the play. Game 2, you're on the draw and they've sided in Drown in Sorrow. Hammerhand and Frenzied Goblin can only nullify blockers so long. Even mainboard Blinding Flare and Harness are only one-turn answers. And if you're using lots of anti-blocking tech, you're doing far less damage per swing. God help you if they ramp into Polukranos or Rhino turn 3. I didn't even mention Brimaz, but in decks that run him, that's yet one more problem.
By comparison, Jeskai Tempo is a breeze. Rabblemaster and Seeker die to literally every burn spell Sligh runs, Lightning Strike takes out Mantis Rider, and their threats are too sparse to recover. True, they can side in Anger game 2, but every creature they run also dies to Anger, so then they have to hold back. Spot removal against Sligh is a joke; spot removal against them is devastating. Ironically, it's easy to out-tempo Jeskai Tempo. If they stick a Brimaz game 2, that's hard to deal with, but not insurmountable. Brimaz is much easier to dust off when he's not flanked by 4/5s and 5/5s.
I know Tom Ross does it right; funny thing is, I usually never see Ross playing against Abzan. Every venue he comes to just seems to be loaded with weak competition. My local meta is going to set their card collection on fire and quit Magic forever once Caryatid, Courser, and Polukranos rotate out. I think they sleep with them under their pillows.
That's a great idea. Wait - WHAT burn? We get Lightning Strike and Stoke the Flames, maybe a couple Magma Jet is worth it, everything else is either too costly or doesn't go to the face.
It's a 3-mana card in a deck that really doesn't get those reliable land drops, and it's only a 1-turn answer. I've tried up to four Harness and even a couple Act of Treason. It just doesn't get there.
Devotion still exists, with the main draw being a game winning Crater's Claws for X+2, as well as Hornet Queen. It's not as dominant as last year, but certainly is a thing. It's represented at my LGS relatively well each week, but by no means as popular as last season. It folds hard to Jeskai, however, as it can't deal with Mantis Rider very well or direct damage. It's a poor choice for a deck for the time being given how popular Jeskai is pretty much in general.
Drown is problematic, but they need to side the full four to have a good chance of getting it early enough to matter, and even then you could get lucky. That said, Mono-Red is always much better on the play than on the draw. That said, if you really are worried about drown, then don't play into it. Or you just accept you can't beat it, and play on. They may very well not have it.
Rhino on turn 3 likely involves the use of a not-insignificant number of painlands, meaning that the life they gain is more arbitrage than actual lifegain. Polukranos, on the other hand, is incredibly difficult to beat, doubly so if they untap with it. That said, baiting them into a block by making a "bad" swing and finishing it with burn is not at all unreasonable to do. Sometimes you do need to accept that you're losing something. You just need to decide when that is.
Add in that the deck, as stated, uses significant number of painlands and you can likely lock them out of the game with a decent draw. They can't reasonably go below 4-5 life, and that's the point you need to get them to. They will be forced to play around Strike/Stoke. It's also not the quickest strategy, and has no real means of consistently playing out its deck. Honestly, I feel Abzan was one of the most hyped decks post-rotation. It has good stuff, but that's about it.
If they keep in rabblemaster, they deserve to lose. That said, the issue with Jeskai is a few things: First, cards like Mantis Rider and Seeker require removal almost immediately. You can't go wide around them, as an attack from Seeker will more than likely gain them life and put them further out of range, as well as reducing your board presence. Mantis Rider is similar, as it can both attack and play defense very well. Yes, you *can* remove them, but it requires immediate removal before they get out of hand. Equally, they have access to all the same removal as you do, and usually more given what they sideboard. Their creatures are better, they have a better mid to late game, and generally shouldn't have much issue keeping yours off the field. That's the issue. Jeskai and Mono-Red are playing the same game, only Jeskai has better creatures. That's not a good sign.
I think Abzan just is getting poorly represented in general at the higher seats as tournaments go on. I have no doubt Ross has played against plenty of Abzan decks and won. It's still a good deck, so good players make the top 8 with it. But plenty of bad players pick it up because they wrongfully think it's the "best deck".
SCG Live has a system to how they do things. And from what I've seen, Tom Ross doesn't usually show up in coverage until rounds 4-5 in general. I think this has to do with the fact that everybody knows what he's playing. Boss Sligh for standard, Infect for legacy. At least that's a decent part of it. It could well be that he's passed the Abzan test early on, and is getting paired with other decks later. I'd have to look closer next time, but that's my feeling given how their coverage works. I'm also loathe to define the meta based on SCG Live coverage alone. They tend to inadvertantly over-define the meta by showing several matches with a single deck.
Yes, I've thought of that. Yes, I've tried that. No, it doesn't work. Gee, let's 2-for-1 ourselves turn after turn against a deck with ramp and card advantage. Especially in a deck running 8 creature enchantments for additional 2-for-1 opportunities and no way to draw ahead.
Yeah, I understand that the efficient monored burn options are limited right now and red needs another good option printed, hopefully in Fate. I guess my point is that sligh decks aren't even running all that is available. The lists I see are like 4 Stoke and 2 Strike main and maybe 2 Strike side. No Jets. Last standard, a lot of sligh decks failed to run Shock, which I also thought was a mistake.
I also did seek out some Tom Ross games and guess what, he's lost to Abzan Midrange too. Making the same plays I do, playing the same kinds of decks I do. If he can lose sometimes and still be Tom Ross, I can quit expecting perfect 5-0s every Friday. I'm not the only player in the world who wants to win.
I've never seen non-blue decks get so much card advantage.
Often you get thoughtseized twice and the Abzan deck is still above 20 life.
I'm at the point where I just want to build whatever decks hate out Abzan.
I think the only way to do it might be End Hostilities. They don't have counterspells and 1 for 1 removal just doesn't seem to work.
With Smoochy currently at one-fourth of the meta with everybody else scrambling to catch up, I'm sure a lot of us are with you. We should just start an "Abzan takedown" thread.
I did think of something, and this is really, really stupid. Do not take this seriously, but it does show an interesting possible avenue: Pure evasion. Mono-blue flyers and unblockable...
4x Hypnotic Siren
2x Illusory Angel
4x Jeskai Windscout
4x Ornithopter
4x Triton Shorestalker
4x Vaporkin
4x Ensoul Artifact
3x Military Intelligence
4x Singing Bell Strike
Artifact
3x Armory of Iroas
3x Ghostfire Blade
4x Darksteel Citadel
17x Island
Wingmate Roc aside, most Abzan decks don't run flyers. All their blockers are ground-pounders. Fly over their heads with a Sligh-style aggro blitz, removal be damned, just keep the wave coming. Lethal by about turn 5, even with Rhino drops. Evasion gets rid of planeswalker too. No enchants because of spot removal; artifacts can be recycled from body to body.
It may be toast to every other deck, but it is a strategy against Abzan.
We're really desperate, aren't we?