I dunno...I kinda think this is a bait post. He pretty must lists all the reasons why Siege Rhino is good, then says "Why does everyone love this card?"
There are cards that are hard for a new/casual player to appreciate and understand, such as Treasure Cruise or Psychatog, but Siege Rhino is pretty straight forward.
As I've said before, you'd be surprised how many new and casual players who think this card is bad.
It's a tempo swinging card, it buys time against red decks and it's in a really good color combination. Kitchen Finks was very oppressive to aggro decks when it was in standard. Though they are deferent cards they serve similar function.
Siege Rhino could be 5cmc and people would still play it. It's a relevant body, with psudo-evasion, and life drain of 3. How you look at this card and think it isn't good astounds me. The fact that it's only 4 mana for a 4/5 with two relevant abilities is worth playing alone. I mean, from the time it was spoiled all people were saying was "how can we build a deck for this?". Apparently the answer was "play everything in abzan colors that's good". Which, as it turns out, is a solid bunch.
As a Sultai player, I can confirm it is an annoying card to deal with. You have to deal with it the turn it's played, or you start having some issues. Thankfully, it's a "ETB" instead of "Attacks or Blocks" deal. That would be terrifying.
1. He's a 4 drop for 4/5 with trample.
2. Your opponent takes three damage while you gain 3 life.
3. Most 1-4 drop burn spells can't kill him.
4. On turn 5 you can drop a Herald of Torment on him and make a 7/8 flying rhino.
The Rhino is nuts good. Let's give a comparison shall we? Lightning Strike costs 2 and does three damage to an opponent. Now, for a measly 2 additional mana, you also gain 3 life AND are left with a 4/5 trampling body afterwards. Which passes the vanilla test without the enter the battlefield effects as is. And it's 5 toughness puts it out of all of the burn spells in standard for an easy kill. In summary, we get a 6 point life swing with a beefy hard to kill body left behind for 4 mana? Sign me up!
Mary
The Rhino is nuts good. Let's give a comparison shall we? Lightning Strike costs 2 and does three damage to an opponent. Now, for a measly 2 additional mana, you also gain 3 life AND are left with a 4/5 trampling body afterwards. Which passes the vanilla test without the enter the battlefield effects as is. And it's 5 toughness puts it out of all of the burn spells in standard for an easy kill. In summary, we get a 6 point life swing with a beefy hard to kill body left behind for 4 mana? Sign me up!
Mary
Lightning Strike does more than 3 damage to opponent. That's Lava Spike you're thinking. Would your average midrange deck play Lava Spike?
Before we get too far down this rabbit hole, Tiemuuu is refering to the fact that you can't direct the life loss from Rhino to creatures or PWs, where as Lightning Strike has ultility to take out things like Mantis Rider and Goblin Rabblemaster.
Lightning Helix was a card. A 4/5 with trample is relevant in a Standard environment with powerful, heavily played token generators such as Goblin Rabblemaster and Elspeth, Sun's Champion. It's out of Lightning Strike and Stoke the Flames range, meaning it won't be instantly decimated by burn. If you consider the fact that Lightning Helix costs 2 different colours for the effect to target creature or player and that Siege Rhino's ETB can't target creatures, you can probably reduce the cost of Siege Rhino's "Lightning Helix" by half a mana.
So if we say that Siege Rhino's ETB costs a W and half a G, the body would cost 1, a B and half a G, giving the body a CMC of 2.5.
Yeah, a 4/5 trampler for 2.5 CMC sounds super unplayable.
the rhino's good, it all boils down to preference. in my lgs, everybody loves rhino, so whenever there's a tourney, more or less 90% of the games are all mirror matches between abzan aggro and abzan midrange....probably, the only thing i can complain about is that the local meta here is so saturated with rhinos, it really gets boring after a while.
So the only real compliant against Rhino is that it is overplayed. That is a fair criticism of the card. Standard seems to have a card that players gravitate towards.
The card is just bonkers value and in some ways makes standard boring.
"Top decked 3 Siege Rhino, SKILL!!!!"
Abzan has all the cards which beat it so just play Abzan. Abzan mirrors as far as the eye can see.
Play anything else and you might lose to burn spells. Now Shock is coming back it just pushes more players towards this big creature and life gain shell.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel isn't a 4/5 trample that drains for 3 every time and costs 4 CMC. He is a small 5 drop that can actually drain for 0 if removed with the trigger on the stack.
It's time to stop comparing them. Rhino is a modern playable it is so pushed.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel isn't a 4/5 trample that drains for 3 every time and costs 4 CMC. He is a small 5 drop that can actually drain for 0 if removed with the trigger on the stack.
It's time to stop comparing them. Rhino is a modern playable it is so pushed.
Well, you are the only one comparing them. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just comparing the amount of "skill" you need to play any one of them.
Anyway, how many times have you been drained for 0 with Gray Merchant? I mean, how many times versus the times you were drained for 7 or 8?
The only reason why sige rhino does not cost more is the fact that the fetchlands are puahing the price down. Once people stop drafting khana he will increase in price.
You also make some false asumtions in the start when the first poster starts this thread:
Getting 3 life is awsome vs agro. Colbine this with other sources of free lifegain and it is hard to be agro.
Dealing five damage is vr good when you are trying to kill your oponent. If they bileblight your sidisi and follow up with a sige rhino the race is very hard.
5 thoughnes is so very good in this format as a lott stops at 4 damage. Often you need to trade 2 for one to kill him. And then you never know if they have instant removal or abzan charm.
He has trable: in the meta that was very hard to find good evasion creatures. You need evasion in order to take counters of planewalkers.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
All I can say is that Siege Rhino is begging to be manipulated in EDH. You can flash him in and out to gain tons of life and make people not like you
I personally don't have one in my standard Abzan deck but I'm trying to get a few of them in there. I haven't played a ton with them yet so my feedback is rather limited. All I can say is that 4/5 trample for 4 with that kind of ability is straight value for Abzan. So that's probably why a ton of people love him.
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Casual BMickey and the Zombies WThings That Fly With Spears GDid You Just Main Phase an Ambush Viper? BGCulling Dais Lolziness a la 1-2 drop Cube
All I can say is that Siege Rhino is begging to be manipulated in EDH. You can flash him in and out to gain tons of life and make people not like you
I personally don't have one in my standard Abzan deck but I'm trying to get a few of them in there. I haven't played a ton with them yet so my feedback is rather limited. All I can say is that 4/5 trample for 4 with that kind of ability is straight value for Abzan. So that's probably why a ton of people love him.
It is interesting that you are not. What are you running at the moment in their stead?
Currently I'm running Ivorytusk Fortress with Abzan Battle Priest to get the life, while sacrificing the direct damage effect to have all my outlasted dudes untap every untap step. I find my particular deck works better this way, just because Ivorytusk works better with outlast synergy, but that doesn't mean I won't give 'em a try at some point.
Again, definitely a great card. I just don't have any right now and school has left little room for acquisition at FNMs
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Casual BMickey and the Zombies WThings That Fly With Spears GDid You Just Main Phase an Ambush Viper? BGCulling Dais Lolziness a la 1-2 drop Cube
As I've said before, you'd be surprised how many new and casual players who think this card is bad.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Value? Check
ETB effect? Check
Utility? Check
Don't know what you expect, hexproof too? Oh, lets make it a cantrip while we're at it.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
-Commander-
UBGMill, Sidisi, and Other ShenanigansGBU
WUBRGShingeki no TazriGRBUW
2. Your opponent takes three damage while you gain 3 life.
3. Most 1-4 drop burn spells can't kill him.
4. On turn 5 you can drop a Herald of Torment on him and make a 7/8 flying rhino.
Mary
Lightning Strike does more than 3 damage to opponent. That's Lava Spike you're thinking. Would your average midrange deck play Lava Spike?
Youtube Channel
P.S It's actually a Rhino with a lightning helix thrower.
Lightning Strike does 3 damage. You're thinking of Lightning Blast maybe.
Before we get too far down this rabbit hole, Tiemuuu is refering to the fact that you can't direct the life loss from Rhino to creatures or PWs, where as Lightning Strike has ultility to take out things like Mantis Rider and Goblin Rabblemaster.
You can actually split it up like this
1G: 4/5 body with Trample
W: Healing Salve
B: Bump in the Night
That was just plain wrong.
The card is just bonkers value and in some ways makes standard boring.
"Top decked 3 Siege Rhino, SKILL!!!!"
Abzan has all the cards which beat it so just play Abzan. Abzan mirrors as far as the eye can see.
Play anything else and you might lose to burn spells. Now Shock is coming back it just pushes more players towards this big creature and life gain shell.
Is that worse than "top decked 3 Gray Merchants"?
Gray Merchant of Asphodel isn't a 4/5 trample that drains for 3 every time and costs 4 CMC. He is a small 5 drop that can actually drain for 0 if removed with the trigger on the stack.
It's time to stop comparing them. Rhino is a modern playable it is so pushed.
Well, you are the only one comparing them. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just comparing the amount of "skill" you need to play any one of them.
Anyway, how many times have you been drained for 0 with Gray Merchant? I mean, how many times versus the times you were drained for 7 or 8?
You also make some false asumtions in the start when the first poster starts this thread:
Getting 3 life is awsome vs agro. Colbine this with other sources of free lifegain and it is hard to be agro.
Dealing five damage is vr good when you are trying to kill your oponent. If they bileblight your sidisi and follow up with a sige rhino the race is very hard.
5 thoughnes is so very good in this format as a lott stops at 4 damage. Often you need to trade 2 for one to kill him. And then you never know if they have instant removal or abzan charm.
He has trable: in the meta that was very hard to find good evasion creatures. You need evasion in order to take counters of planewalkers.
I personally don't have one in my standard Abzan deck but I'm trying to get a few of them in there. I haven't played a ton with them yet so my feedback is rather limited. All I can say is that 4/5 trample for 4 with that kind of ability is straight value for Abzan. So that's probably why a ton of people love him.
BMickey and the Zombies
WThings That Fly With Spears
G
Did You Just Main Phase an Ambush Viper?BGCulling Dais Lolziness a la 1-2 drop Cube
Standard
WBGAbzan Outlast
EDH
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
WGRhys the Redeemed and Those not quite
UBWrexial, the Risen Deep (work in progress)
BBalthor the Defiled (work in progress)
It is interesting that you are not. What are you running at the moment in their stead?
Again, definitely a great card. I just don't have any right now and school has left little room for acquisition at FNMs
BMickey and the Zombies
WThings That Fly With Spears
G
Did You Just Main Phase an Ambush Viper?BGCulling Dais Lolziness a la 1-2 drop Cube
Standard
WBGAbzan Outlast
EDH
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
WGRhys the Redeemed and Those not quite
UBWrexial, the Risen Deep (work in progress)
BBalthor the Defiled (work in progress)
Creatures
2x Athreos, God of Passage
4x Courser of Kruphix
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x High Sentinels of Arashin
2x Citadel Siege
4x Siege Rhino
Sorceries
2x Thoughtseize
2x End Hostilities
Instants
3x Abzan Charm
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Utter End
3x Abzan Ascendancy
Planeswalkers
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land
4x Caves of Koilos
1x Forest
4x Llanowar Wastes
2x Mana Confluence
2x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
1x Windswept Heath
1x Swamp
4x Temple of Plenty
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Abzan Charm
3x Bile Blight
3x Drown in Sorrow
2x Palace Siege
4x Erase
By all rights I could probably use Abzan Battle Priest or Ivorytusk Fortress, but I like the deck as it stands.