this deck is awful to play against its no quite eggs level but my god. 4 of my 7 matches tonight were against this deck. It takes so long to do anything and if you do not have a answear you just lose. the one game the guy took 17 minutes to combo off and yes i timed this. It got to thepoint where if i didn't have the cards in hand to deal with it just scooped and went to the next game. This is the top level unfun magic and how it got through the wizards testing ill never know.
I understand the reasoning for banning it in Standard but what about Modern where there are more answers against it?
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Most decks that you don't have the answer to will kill you. JA is one of my favored matchups. So many answers to it - and if you have just one, their entire plan collapses. Counterspells, instant enchantment removal, non-instant enchantment removal in the situations where they need to play Ascendancy on the turn before going off, other instant removal like Utter End, Thoughtseize, stuff that kills their mana dorks, the list goes on.
Yes, the deck will start playing solitaire at some point, but it is really fragile to your SB choices and easy to disrupt.
I watched Olle Rade play ProBloom in the courtyard of a castle at Pro Tour Paris.
To say a combo deck that is so fragile, that has been so long absent from Standard and ask for it's banning? It's terrible. Magic is full of durdly big creature decks, let there be some 'Magic' left. I can see it being banned in Modern, but in Standard?
If it isn't a so fast or so consistent combo that can't be answered, then yes, it should be banned, and Jeskai Ascendancy combo CAN be answered. If it become more popular people will just bring more hate for it.
Yeah, if it takes them 17 minutes you should call a judge for slow play. If they cannot make plays in a reasonable time frame with their deck, it's slow play. If they can demonstrate they can do an infinite mana loop, and drawing the remaining cards in their deck, they should be able to just win, or know how to do it, in a timely manner.
How hard is it to stop a 4 card combo? I almost never lose to this deck. It's not like they printed Erase recently or anything.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
People are playing it and it isn't broken. It is a good deck but as people noted, the deck needs quite a bit to go off and if anybody is acting like they don't have anything to stop it, it is probably their fault which means the sideboard needs to be revisited.
imo they should reprint a powerful counter spell in the next set. Something like Foil or Mindbreak Trap. They are kind of required as a sideboard answer against powerful combo decks.
The same reason why they reprinted Tormod's Crypt so people could sideboard it againt Sultai/Delve if it got too powerful.
I actually never lost to it beat it twice and drew twice. Its fnm there is no judge and if i had called slow play i would have been labeled asthat guy. My sideboard was fine its actually having the cards in hand. Its the boring interaction i have to sit there and watch you play magic.
it's a combo... if wouldn't let him shortcut that's your own fault but it's actually an allowable thing to let the person mill/damage/lifegain after going through the motions a couple of times
combo is one of the three major deck types and we haven't had a good one in awhile so you should calm your tits
We need to stop this perception that calling a judge is a bad thing. Here is the thing, if he takes that long to do his combo, the likelihood is at the end of the round, he may go into the 5 turn extension with people. If he doesn't have a good sense of his time management, then other players shouldn't be penalized because of him.
I watched Olle Rade play ProBloom in the courtyard of a castle at Pro Tour Paris.
To say a combo deck that is so fragile, that has been so long absent from Standard and ask for it's banning? It's terrible. Magic is full of durdly big creature decks, let there be some 'Magic' left. I can see it being banned in Modern, but in Standard?
With the way Wizards of the Coast has been handling Magic in the last few years they'd probably be better off banning combo in Modern like they did in Standard If they're THAT desperate to alienate their player base even further. EDH/Commander? Why bother when players are better off playing League of Legends which is practically the same thing without being a money pit. MTGO? There's Hearthstone If that's your cup of tea. If I wanted to play Balls-to-Wall Aggro I'd rather be playing Kaijudo instead of Magic.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
If you want to show someone that you agree with them, just hit the "thanks!" button on the side of the post. It helps us cut down on the clutter. --Lugger
It's just that Combo is so rare in Magic these days that players wait to jump on the next bandwagon for it whether it be Jeskai Ascendancy or Splinter Twin where the only way to get it going consistently is by running expensive mana bases with shocks, fetches, and mana dorks which players like me can't afford playsets of since they're usually about $20+ a piece except for Birds of Paradise which is $5 a piece with the most expensive mana dorks being Noble Hierarch and Sylvan Caryatid.
I still enjoy playing EDH/Commander whenever I get the chance to play as I never really bothered getting around to playing League of Legends all that much cause it wasn't something I was interested in. MTGO I pretty much ignored If anyone knows my stance on how I feel about online card games, and the game mechanics for Kaijudo fit the Balls-to-Wall Aggro element perfectly that rewards you for breaking your opponent's Shield cards which represents how much life they have.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I understand the reasoning for banning it in Standard but what about Modern where there are more answers against it?
It's worse in Modern, and I'm going to jump on the ban this card bandwagon. I think I'm going to take a break from Modern and Standard until this card is banned. Ascendancy combos off as early as turn 2 in Modern, 3 in Standard. And the only way to deal with this is to go to a discard suite to take their win condition away from them. Problem is they'll dig through time and treasure cruise to get to their infinite combo in standard or just Wish it in on the Modern front. So yeah, Ascendancy needs a ban, because I can't just draw go with a midrange deck waiting for them to get their combo off only to have my answer countered when I try to stop it.
I understand the reasoning for banning it in Standard but what about Modern where there are more answers against it?
It's worse in Modern, and I'm going to jump on the ban this card bandwagon.
You mean the bandwagon that is insisting a card needs to be banned despite putting up very few results and landing a grand total of 0 decks in the Top 16 of the latest SCG Modern Premier IQ? That's not a good bandwagon to be on.
I think I'm going to take a break from Modern and Standard until this card is banned. Ascendancy combos off as early as turn 2 in Modern, 3 in Standard.
Hey, you know what else can combo off on turn 2? Infect, Griselcannon, and Amulet of Vigor. And like this deck, it requires them to have a great hand and to encounter no disruption. Yet those decks have not received bans. Why didn't you already quit Modern due to those decks?
And the only way to deal with this is to go to a discard suite to take their win condition away from them. Problem is they'll dig through time and treasure cruise to get to their infinite combo in standard or just Wish it in on the Modern front. So yeah, Ascendancy needs a ban, because I can't just draw go with a midrange deck waiting for them to get their combo off only to have my answer countered when I try to stop it.
I'm not sure if you're talking Standard or Modern here, but again, the deck is being outclassed by multiple decks in both formats. If Jeskai Ascendancy needs a ban in Modern, then I assume you agree that Melira Pod, UR Delver, Affinity, Burn, Splinter Twin, and more need bans as well, because they're all doing better. And there's tons of decks in Standard doing better than Jeskai Ascendancy; do all of those need bans also? Because if you're somehow claiming that this is too good, then you should agree that all those other decks that are doing far better need bans too.
Advocating a ban in Standard for Jeskai Ascendancy feels like someone last season (when Monoblack Devotion was the dominant deck, followed by Monoblue Devotion) looking at the decks and concluding that Brave the Elements was overpowered and needed a ban.
And the only way to deal with this is to go to a discard suite to take their win condition away from them. Problem is they'll dig through time and treasure cruise to get to their infinite combo in standard or just Wish it in on the Modern front. So yeah, Ascendancy needs a ban, because I can't just draw go with a midrange deck waiting for them to get their combo off only to have my answer countered when I try to stop it.
I'm not sure if you're talking Standard or Modern here, but again, the deck is being outclassed by multiple decks in both formats. If Jeskai Ascendancy needs a ban in Modern, then I assume you agree that Melira Pod, UR Delver, Affinity, Burn, Splinter Twin, and more need bans as well, because they're all doing better. And there's tons of decks in Standard doing better than Jeskai Ascendancy; do all of those need bans also? Because if you're somehow claiming that this is too good, then you should agree that all those other decks that are doing far better need bans too.
Threads like this are why many people believe that most people on MTGSalvation are terrible at Magic.
This.
Very true... However, I had the unfortunate dealing with Ascendancy in two separate Game Days...
Altar of the Brood was the main enabler. And I lost to first, a turn 4 combo out because my deck had the unfortunate desire to tap out on my turn 3 Polly. Then, game two came around... I had killed his first Ascendancy with Consign to Dust. And I did it only because all I had in play was an elf and Courser. I did the draw go for several turns refusing to ever tap out... And I pulled a Phyrexian Revoker which should have rendered his Caryatid useless and I still had very little presence to deal properly when he did two separate Dig Through Times and Commune with the Gods so I knew he had 2 Ascendancies. Soon as he played one, I killed it again but he countered it in response and I had no answer to the counter itself. Since his Caryatid was dead, he played the Retraction Helix on the Satyr and I Downfalled it in response. I had 6 lands and 3 creatures in play. It was a joke, because he did another Dig to get what he needed again... I beat him, but only because Polly was unanswered.
Game 3? Feh... It was a joke, he had a perfect hand after mulling to 5 and playing Caryatids 1 and 2 on turns 2 and 3 and turn 4 he resolved two Ascendancies and comboed out, again. I guess I could dilute my deck further with Thoughtsiezes, but heck, why should I even bother? I already killed its efficiency by putting in 4 Chords, 4 Downfalls, a Rec Sage, and Revoker, MB... The offensive power of my deck sucked tremendously.
Mind you, this guy stole 1st and 3rd on both events in a 50 person Saturday and 43 person Sunday. And in the top 8, was my G/b Devotion at 4th and 8th. And Jessica Tempo was 2nd, 3rd, or whatever... Even 1st today. I could deal, I beat that Tempo deck that made 1st, only to lose to Combo when the losses were the ones that truly mattered. Where the cut to the top 8 and single eliminations were to be done.
So to put it simply, I went 7-1 Saturday, and 6-1 on Sunday. With the only loss to Combo and my deck was undefeated prior to that point, mainly because I play Chords, Revoker, Rec Sage, and Downfalls in the main board.
The hardest games I faced were always Tempo, I beat Junk every time. Naya Walkers wasn't a problem. Aggro had a terrible matchup to me... I think G/b Devotion is a very strong deck, it performed well for me, except against Combo where I was outpaced on a grand scale. And the only way I can truly deal with it? 4 Thoughtsieze and 2 Despise in the side? Seriously? When my deck as a whole is dedicated to playing a simple Revoker in response to the retraction? What else do I need to do?
I've played since Alpha, and I've seen strategies come and go, and it peeves me off that so many people are so butt hurt because they don't like Stone Rain or Wasteland. I've come to the conclusion that land destruction will never be efficient again. All it would take, is Tec Edge to make an appearance and it would keep greedy mana bases in check. Or Blood Moon. I'd go for either, instead, we get Encroaching Wastes or 4 or 5 cost land destruction and that was a complete joke.
And while this card isn't on the level of stupid like SFM/JTMS/Batterskull, or Bargain, or even Skullclamp, it's just one of those decks that irritate and annoy me.
And yes, it is very true that Leyline of Sanctity stops storm, or Damping Matrix stops activations.... But that assumes the other side is stupid enough to let those be played. I'd prefer Krosan Grip any day...
Of course, I'm of the opinion that there was nothing wrong with Deathrite Shaman in Modern at all. Nor did I have a problem with GSZ, and those banning made Zoo suck even harder hind teet than anyone can even believe
My point though... As fast as my deck is at ramping up and its ability to deal with the level of stupid that is Ascendancy, it's inefficient at doing so. I beat Tempo almost every time because I get 2 or 3 creatures on the board and kept a full hand... And Downfall whatever walker I saw or kill Mantis Boy because it was only going to be a minor issue. Any deck can win, any deck can lose. It takes the person playing it, and the luck of the draw. Sadly though, luck failed me against combo on an epic scale.
Modern... I guess it's mostly that I'm just irritated about what happened this weekend. Been playing the same three decks in Modern, and they're all pretty good. From Bogles, to Zoo, and finally Tron. And all have answers to combo either in main or side... They're very good decks, and I enjoy em... And yeah, a turn 2 infect sucks... a lot. Just not as bad as my NO Elves or Legacy Cheerios deck
Or my Narset or Marath EDH decks. I said I was taking a break from Modern and Standard for a while, it doesn't mean I'm not going to play Magic. I stopped playing Standard when Jace/SFM mystic was in every deck, and if you didn't play them your deck was tier 3, or maybe 4... Yeah, unplayable. The combo deck took a lot of fun out of people's day these past two days where 2 rounds would last maybe 5-10 minutes, at most.
So you hate Combo because its uninteractive and you just sit and watch the other player goldfish and you can't respond to his play, but you want land destruction to return that causes you to play Magic while the opponent sits and watches you play. Sound logic.
The deck isn't that great (I'm playing it for fun because fun combo deck is the bee's knees to me). It's easily hated, needs 3-4 cards to go off, and needs four colors. But it's the best most viable combo in Standard in years. Just let it be. It's not that degenerate by any stretch.
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"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Yes, the deck will start playing solitaire at some point, but it is really fragile to your SB choices and easy to disrupt.
To say a combo deck that is so fragile, that has been so long absent from Standard and ask for it's banning? It's terrible. Magic is full of durdly big creature decks, let there be some 'Magic' left. I can see it being banned in Modern, but in Standard?
You need to read this article;
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/adriennereynolds-101714-whats-in-a-name-lee-shi-tian-and-the-umbrella-revolution/
If it isn't a so fast or so consistent combo that can't be answered, then yes, it should be banned, and Jeskai Ascendancy combo CAN be answered. If it become more popular people will just bring more hate for it.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
it's the easiest thing in the world to hate out
if you're losing to this deck you just straight do not understand sideboarding
The same reason why they reprinted Tormod's Crypt so people could sideboard it againt Sultai/Delve if it got too powerful.
I actually never lost to it beat it twice and drew twice. Its fnm there is no judge and if i had called slow play i would have been labeled asthat guy. My sideboard was fine its actually having the cards in hand. Its the boring interaction i have to sit there and watch you play magic.
combo is one of the three major deck types and we haven't had a good one in awhile so you should calm your tits
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
If you want to show someone that you agree with them, just hit the "thanks!" button on the side of the post. It helps us cut down on the clutter. --Lugger
I still enjoy playing EDH/Commander whenever I get the chance to play as I never really bothered getting around to playing League of Legends all that much cause it wasn't something I was interested in. MTGO I pretty much ignored If anyone knows my stance on how I feel about online card games, and the game mechanics for Kaijudo fit the Balls-to-Wall Aggro element perfectly that rewards you for breaking your opponent's Shield cards which represents how much life they have.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
It's worse in Modern, and I'm going to jump on the ban this card bandwagon. I think I'm going to take a break from Modern and Standard until this card is banned. Ascendancy combos off as early as turn 2 in Modern, 3 in Standard. And the only way to deal with this is to go to a discard suite to take their win condition away from them. Problem is they'll dig through time and treasure cruise to get to their infinite combo in standard or just Wish it in on the Modern front. So yeah, Ascendancy needs a ban, because I can't just draw go with a midrange deck waiting for them to get their combo off only to have my answer countered when I try to stop it.
Hey, you know what else can combo off on turn 2? Infect, Griselcannon, and Amulet of Vigor. And like this deck, it requires them to have a great hand and to encounter no disruption. Yet those decks have not received bans. Why didn't you already quit Modern due to those decks?
I'm not sure if you're talking Standard or Modern here, but again, the deck is being outclassed by multiple decks in both formats. If Jeskai Ascendancy needs a ban in Modern, then I assume you agree that Melira Pod, UR Delver, Affinity, Burn, Splinter Twin, and more need bans as well, because they're all doing better. And there's tons of decks in Standard doing better than Jeskai Ascendancy; do all of those need bans also? Because if you're somehow claiming that this is too good, then you should agree that all those other decks that are doing far better need bans too.
Advocating a ban in Standard for Jeskai Ascendancy feels like someone last season (when Monoblack Devotion was the dominant deck, followed by Monoblue Devotion) looking at the decks and concluding that Brave the Elements was overpowered and needed a ban.
This.
Very true... However, I had the unfortunate dealing with Ascendancy in two separate Game Days...
Altar of the Brood was the main enabler. And I lost to first, a turn 4 combo out because my deck had the unfortunate desire to tap out on my turn 3 Polly. Then, game two came around... I had killed his first Ascendancy with Consign to Dust. And I did it only because all I had in play was an elf and Courser. I did the draw go for several turns refusing to ever tap out... And I pulled a Phyrexian Revoker which should have rendered his Caryatid useless and I still had very little presence to deal properly when he did two separate Dig Through Times and Commune with the Gods so I knew he had 2 Ascendancies. Soon as he played one, I killed it again but he countered it in response and I had no answer to the counter itself. Since his Caryatid was dead, he played the Retraction Helix on the Satyr and I Downfalled it in response. I had 6 lands and 3 creatures in play. It was a joke, because he did another Dig to get what he needed again... I beat him, but only because Polly was unanswered.
Game 3? Feh... It was a joke, he had a perfect hand after mulling to 5 and playing Caryatids 1 and 2 on turns 2 and 3 and turn 4 he resolved two Ascendancies and comboed out, again. I guess I could dilute my deck further with Thoughtsiezes, but heck, why should I even bother? I already killed its efficiency by putting in 4 Chords, 4 Downfalls, a Rec Sage, and Revoker, MB... The offensive power of my deck sucked tremendously.
Mind you, this guy stole 1st and 3rd on both events in a 50 person Saturday and 43 person Sunday. And in the top 8, was my G/b Devotion at 4th and 8th. And Jessica Tempo was 2nd, 3rd, or whatever... Even 1st today. I could deal, I beat that Tempo deck that made 1st, only to lose to Combo when the losses were the ones that truly mattered. Where the cut to the top 8 and single eliminations were to be done.
So to put it simply, I went 7-1 Saturday, and 6-1 on Sunday. With the only loss to Combo and my deck was undefeated prior to that point, mainly because I play Chords, Revoker, Rec Sage, and Downfalls in the main board.
The hardest games I faced were always Tempo, I beat Junk every time. Naya Walkers wasn't a problem. Aggro had a terrible matchup to me... I think G/b Devotion is a very strong deck, it performed well for me, except against Combo where I was outpaced on a grand scale. And the only way I can truly deal with it? 4 Thoughtsieze and 2 Despise in the side? Seriously? When my deck as a whole is dedicated to playing a simple Revoker in response to the retraction? What else do I need to do?
I've played since Alpha, and I've seen strategies come and go, and it peeves me off that so many people are so butt hurt because they don't like Stone Rain or Wasteland. I've come to the conclusion that land destruction will never be efficient again. All it would take, is Tec Edge to make an appearance and it would keep greedy mana bases in check. Or Blood Moon. I'd go for either, instead, we get Encroaching Wastes or 4 or 5 cost land destruction and that was a complete joke.
And while this card isn't on the level of stupid like SFM/JTMS/Batterskull, or Bargain, or even Skullclamp, it's just one of those decks that irritate and annoy me.
And yes, it is very true that Leyline of Sanctity stops storm, or Damping Matrix stops activations.... But that assumes the other side is stupid enough to let those be played. I'd prefer Krosan Grip any day...
Of course, I'm of the opinion that there was nothing wrong with Deathrite Shaman in Modern at all. Nor did I have a problem with GSZ, and those banning made Zoo suck even harder hind teet than anyone can even believe
My point though... As fast as my deck is at ramping up and its ability to deal with the level of stupid that is Ascendancy, it's inefficient at doing so. I beat Tempo almost every time because I get 2 or 3 creatures on the board and kept a full hand... And Downfall whatever walker I saw or kill Mantis Boy because it was only going to be a minor issue. Any deck can win, any deck can lose. It takes the person playing it, and the luck of the draw. Sadly though, luck failed me against combo on an epic scale.
Modern... I guess it's mostly that I'm just irritated about what happened this weekend. Been playing the same three decks in Modern, and they're all pretty good. From Bogles, to Zoo, and finally Tron. And all have answers to combo either in main or side... They're very good decks, and I enjoy em... And yeah, a turn 2 infect sucks... a lot. Just not as bad as my NO Elves or Legacy Cheerios deck
Or my Narset or Marath EDH decks. I said I was taking a break from Modern and Standard for a while, it doesn't mean I'm not going to play Magic. I stopped playing Standard when Jace/SFM mystic was in every deck, and if you didn't play them your deck was tier 3, or maybe 4... Yeah, unplayable. The combo deck took a lot of fun out of people's day these past two days where 2 rounds would last maybe 5-10 minutes, at most.
So you hate Combo because its uninteractive and you just sit and watch the other player goldfish and you can't respond to his play, but you want land destruction to return that causes you to play Magic while the opponent sits and watches you play. Sound logic.
The deck isn't that great (I'm playing it for fun because fun combo deck is the bee's knees to me). It's easily hated, needs 3-4 cards to go off, and needs four colors. But it's the best most viable combo in Standard in years. Just let it be. It's not that degenerate by any stretch.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit