I don't really think they're to comparable beyond being hasty 4/4 flyers, but when you look at the cards in the format, stormbreath is usually better. Sarkhan lives through murderous cut and sultai charm, but stormbreath dodges abzan charm, banishing light, utter end, jeskai charm, white flyers...
When you think about it, indestructible has gotten a lot less impressive in recent memory.
Stormbreath being allowed to live can have much more immediate consequences in the decks it's played in, as opposed to sarkhans ultimate.
The most definitive difference between the two is sarkhan's flame jab, and that will be what determines which one you use. If you're in the market for a threat that can also kill creatures, then sarkhan might be better. That is a maybe, though, as decks like that also like having resillient threats, and I personally think that stormbreath is more annoying to remove.
i would not choose betweem then..instead i would play with a mix of both....3~4 Stormbreath Dragon and 2~3 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker..in my point of view they complete instead of compete with each other...trust me when i say this..they're great together..
It really depends on the deck. In a more proactive deck like a monsters deck, Stormbreath is far far better. Most importantly in this shell, Stormbreath doesn't die to your opponent's attacking creatures, meaning you can be more proactive.
In a removal shell like a mardu planeswalkers deck Sarkhan is better because he is more versatile and your goal is to keep your opponent's board clear to protect your 'walkers.
In a vacuum Sarkhan is definitely better. In the current meta though Stormbreath I feel is better positioned. Stormbreath dodges Abzan Charm, Utter End, Jeskai Charm, and Banishing Light where Sarkhan doesn't, and while Sarkhan can easily -3 away threats like Mantis Rider and Butcher of the Horde, he matches up poorly against Seige Rhino and Wingmate Roc, both of which Stormbreath Dragon is great against in both the attacking and blocking positions against Roc, Rhino, Rider, and Butcher.
The meta right now is very good for Stormbreath in proactive decks. If you have Sarkhan's sleeved up in your Jeskai Wins deck, I highly recommend swapping them out for Stormbreaths.
Stormbreath is much better vs abzan decks, not sure I would say he is better vs Jeskai decks, yes he can block mantis rider and avoid jeskai charm. In that match up though he still dies to a lot of single cards potentially they might have in (at least game 1) where Sarkhan takes two cards to kill.
Considering the format will be heavy abzan (though it's also heavy Jeskai) it's a pretty tough choice and might be more dependent on your local meta.
Sarkhans ultimate SUCKS
At least it seems that way to me
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First come the goblins. Hordes of them. But soon the ramp produced by xenagos attracts monstrous token-producing hydras. Towering over the battlefield, these 12-headed killing machines are protected 2 archetypes of endurance as they crash any resistence left
If there weren't so many stoke the flames in the format, stormbreath would likely be better in nearly all situations (though the minus is nice from time to time)
I'd say Stormbreath is better at the moment because of Abzan and Temur being the big decks. If mass removal is a problem, Sarkhan gets stronger. If 4-toughness creatures are a big deal, Sarkhan gets stronger, but Siege Rhino has that magic 5.
If your meta tends towards decks that can't answer Sarkhan as well, though, he'd be the better choice.
Final thoughts: Play a split, so it's harder for your opponents to find the right answer. It might be worth using Sarkhan as Stormbreaths #5-? anyways, especially if you can consistently get it out early with ramp. Or using Stormbreaths as Sarkhans #4-?, since 'walkers can be dead draws in multiples.
There's room for both in an appropriate deck, so if you ask me, the question is really their ratio to each other. Anyway, comparing them honestly feels a bit like apples to oranges, even if they're both 4/4 red fliers with the same mana cost. Sarkhan can kill creatures, but he's open to counterattacks. Stormbreath has the limitations of being a creature, but monstrosity makes him a whopping 7/7 and he may have some reach damage, depending on the opponent's hand.
At the end of the day, I'd run 4 Storms and 2 Sarkhan in a RG/x ramp deck Seems right.
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I think the Mizzium Mortars on Sarkhan can't be underestimated. Sometimes you just need to wipe something out. Having options on cards is powerful.
actualy sarkhan can attack once before you can kill him with heroes downfall at least, that is an advantage.
i kinda like both, and at the moment i split them in my mardu build, but depending on the matchup one is better of the other.
Not so. The downfall hits him in response to his activation, meaning he's dead before it resolves and he never becomes a dragon in the first place.
In the current meta, I've found Sarkhan to be better, despite the vulnerability to abzan charm and banishing light. The flame slash effect is so great against mantis riders and anafenzas and coursers and whatnot. He's very often a 2-for-1 and if they can't answer him he can win you the game.
That said, it's great to have backup stormbreaths in your sideboard if you have the slots and the cards in your collection. I'm running 2 sarkhans MB and 2 stormbreath SB and liking it a lot. Against control I can go full-bore with 4 'dragons' and against abzan I can swap out the sarkhans in favour of stormbreaths.
you cant kill a planeswalker in response to his activation. i mean you can, but you cant hit him before his abbility resolves i think.
I activate sarkhan. You hero's downfall sarkhan in response with the activation on the stack. Hero's downfall resolves. Sarkhan dies. Sarkhan's activation resolves, turning him into a 4/4 indestructible dragon. Sarkhan is in the graveyard and thus the activation on the stack fizzles due to no legal targets.
Sarkhan dies before he can become indestructible while his activation is still on the stack waiting to resolve.
Even if it does resolve Abzan has another 3 mana trick to remove him in Abzan charm. When a top deck removes your powerful 5 drop with 7-8 3 mana spells I just don't see how it can be that good. You will see his popularity wane over coming weeks in my opinion. He might become a sideboard threat.
you cant kill a planeswalker in response to his activation. i mean you can, but you cant hit him before his abbility resolves i think.
You might be thinking about burning off of loyalty counters.
You can't kill Sarkhan with Stoke the Flames because adding a counter to Sarkhan is part of the ability's cost, and can't be responded to. You can kill him with Hero's Downfall because gaining indestructible is part of the effect, which can be responded to.
you cant kill a planeswalker in response to his activation. i mean you can, but you cant hit him before his abbility resolves i think.
Your getting confused due to the fact you can't respond to loyalty being added on a walker since that is technically a cost. You can still responded the ability, its just like any other activated ability.
I personally am partial to Stormbreath. I dunno, seems less fragile and easier to build around. Like some of you guys have been saying, Sarkhan is better in control whereas Stormbreath is better in midrange. Beats me why Sarkhan went up to 30$.
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When you think about it, indestructible has gotten a lot less impressive in recent memory.
Stormbreath being allowed to live can have much more immediate consequences in the decks it's played in, as opposed to sarkhans ultimate.
The most definitive difference between the two is sarkhan's flame jab, and that will be what determines which one you use. If you're in the market for a threat that can also kill creatures, then sarkhan might be better. That is a maybe, though, as decks like that also like having resillient threats, and I personally think that stormbreath is more annoying to remove.
UR Twin - RIP
Stormbreath survives Abzan Charm and Banishing Light.
Versatility = Quality.
In a removal shell like a mardu planeswalkers deck Sarkhan is better because he is more versatile and your goal is to keep your opponent's board clear to protect your 'walkers.
In a vacuum Sarkhan is definitely better. In the current meta though Stormbreath I feel is better positioned. Stormbreath dodges Abzan Charm, Utter End, Jeskai Charm, and Banishing Light where Sarkhan doesn't, and while Sarkhan can easily -3 away threats like Mantis Rider and Butcher of the Horde, he matches up poorly against Seige Rhino and Wingmate Roc, both of which Stormbreath Dragon is great against in both the attacking and blocking positions against Roc, Rhino, Rider, and Butcher.
The meta right now is very good for Stormbreath in proactive decks. If you have Sarkhan's sleeved up in your Jeskai Wins deck, I highly recommend swapping them out for Stormbreaths.
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
Considering the format will be heavy abzan (though it's also heavy Jeskai) it's a pretty tough choice and might be more dependent on your local meta.
At least it seems that way to me
Stormbreath dodges Abzan Charm, Banishing Light, Devouring Light, Utter End, Ashen Rider, and Pillar of Light if that somehow sees play.
Sarkhan dodges Dead Drop, Murderous Cut, Sultai Charm, Stoke the Flames, and End Hostilities.
I'd say Stormbreath is better at the moment because of Abzan and Temur being the big decks. If mass removal is a problem, Sarkhan gets stronger. If 4-toughness creatures are a big deal, Sarkhan gets stronger, but Siege Rhino has that magic 5.
If your meta tends towards decks that can't answer Sarkhan as well, though, he'd be the better choice.
Final thoughts: Play a split, so it's harder for your opponents to find the right answer. It might be worth using Sarkhan as Stormbreaths #5-? anyways, especially if you can consistently get it out early with ramp. Or using Stormbreaths as Sarkhans #4-?, since 'walkers can be dead draws in multiples.
At the end of the day, I'd run 4 Storms and 2 Sarkhan in a RG/x ramp deck Seems right.
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
actualy sarkhan can attack once before you can kill him with heroes downfall at least, that is an advantage.
i kinda like both, and at the moment i split them in my mardu build, but depending on the matchup one is better of the other.
Not so. The downfall hits him in response to his activation, meaning he's dead before it resolves and he never becomes a dragon in the first place.
In the current meta, I've found Sarkhan to be better, despite the vulnerability to abzan charm and banishing light. The flame slash effect is so great against mantis riders and anafenzas and coursers and whatnot. He's very often a 2-for-1 and if they can't answer him he can win you the game.
That said, it's great to have backup stormbreaths in your sideboard if you have the slots and the cards in your collection. I'm running 2 sarkhans MB and 2 stormbreath SB and liking it a lot. Against control I can go full-bore with 4 'dragons' and against abzan I can swap out the sarkhans in favour of stormbreaths.
I activate sarkhan. You hero's downfall sarkhan in response with the activation on the stack. Hero's downfall resolves. Sarkhan dies. Sarkhan's activation resolves, turning him into a 4/4 indestructible dragon. Sarkhan is in the graveyard and thus the activation on the stack fizzles due to no legal targets.
Sarkhan dies before he can become indestructible while his activation is still on the stack waiting to resolve.
Even if it does resolve Abzan has another 3 mana trick to remove him in Abzan charm. When a top deck removes your powerful 5 drop with 7-8 3 mana spells I just don't see how it can be that good. You will see his popularity wane over coming weeks in my opinion. He might become a sideboard threat.
You might be thinking about burning off of loyalty counters.
You can't kill Sarkhan with Stoke the Flames because adding a counter to Sarkhan is part of the ability's cost, and can't be responded to. You can kill him with Hero's Downfall because gaining indestructible is part of the effect, which can be responded to.
Your getting confused due to the fact you can't respond to loyalty being added on a walker since that is technically a cost. You can still responded the ability, its just like any other activated ability.
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