What is the best way to start into the Standard format? With Core 2015 coming out soon and new the Block starting in September I am not sure of the best way to start.
I could buy a deck now with singles but half of those cards are going to rotate out, so that seems like a waste. I could start with Core 2015 and pick up a box of Theros and Journey into Nyx (as those seem to be the best of the last block), then in September start with the new block, but that would put any semi-competitive deck 2-3 months out really I think.
Any recommendations?
Last time I played was back in 96-99, but even then it was more kitchen table casual play.
My best recommendation is to play Boss Sligh competitively, and start slowly brewing for the fall with Theros Block and then M15 cards. The Boss Sligh list is extremely cheap - composed mostly of junk commons and a small handful of cheap rares - and quite competitive.
If you have the money, buy a booster box of each Theros and Journey into Nyx, and maybe 10ish packs of Born of the Gods. Then just see which cards you like and start building around them. Will only cost you ~$350ish dollars to do all that and you'll have ample cards to play competitively now with Boss Sligh, and have enough cards to get a feel for the format and trade up to the things you decide you want to play after rotation.
In case you hate red decks, other cheapish FNM-worthy standard builds include mostly BG decks - constellation and dredge.
And whatever you do - never be afraid to buy temple lands. They're affordable and set to be very useful for the next 15 months.
The boss sligh advice is very sound costing only $26 and being reasonably competitive. Mono black aggro is another reasonably priced deck and almost none of the cards are rotating.
I wouldn't recommend grabbing booster boxes and building a deck as any deck you'll buy will have maybe 1 of any powerful card you need 4 of and won't be remotely competitive. You really need to determine what kind of strategy you want to execute and focus on making that specific deck as perfect as you can make it. Some people try to jump deck to deck to capitalize on the evolving metagame, but you generally want to find the strategy that suits you personally and practice as much as possible.
If you want a breakdown of the prevailing strategies I can give you summaries in a follow up post.
This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for, thank you very much.
As for style, I have watched a lot of matches and kept up on the primary decks out there; there are a few decks I like right now, my big concern is I haven't kept up during a rotation before so I am not sure if they will remain viable. I prefer control or midrange over agro; here are some of the decks I like the play of:
Esper Control (but it will be losing rev, supereme verdict, etc.)
Junk Mid-range (abrupt decay, land base with ravnica being rotated, etc.)
Green / White or Green / Black decks are interesting (re-animator, dredge, hexproof)
I don't like red at all, and I am not a fan of agro.
Generally speaking, if you are looking to manage costs, you are better off with a two color deck. I have been building on a budget with my son and a three color deck is often just too expensive because of the mana base. This may not always be true, but it usually is. Also, you should look at your deck as an investment.
How likely are some of the big cards of the decks now (Elsbeth, Ajani, Temples, etc.) to still be big cards of those types of decks after rotation?
like will there likely be a U/W or Esper control deck that can be competitive after rotation? or do we now know enough yet since M 2015 hasn't been spoiled yet.
I'd venture that UW/esper control will not be a huge thing post rotation. You're losing the second best instant-speed draw spell ever printed in sphinx's revelation, one of the most toughest finishers in aetherling, an uncounterable 4-mana wrath in supreme verdict (don't be surprised if sweepers from now on are 6 mana or more - can't have aggro getting blown out by overextending!) as well as several important support cards.
As for what to grab now, I'd look at what did well in block constructed - most of the top8 decks at the most recent pro tour (surprise surprise, it was block!) were green-based midrange decks, and most ran black or red as a secondary color. That means cards like sylvan caryatid, courser of kruphix, Stormbreath Dragon and thoughtseize will be very useful to have for the coming year. But what I'd recommend is to find a deck (preferably one without too many key pieces from ravnica block) and focus on that - if you're a good player, you'll find a way to make that deck work.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Yah but that locks you into playing other peoples' decks for the next season instead of starting to build a card base now so you can experiment with other things to make up your own mind about card choices.
Buying top tier decks is hands down the most boring way to play magic.
Thank you Everyone,
I decided to go ahead and just plan for the block ahead. I bought a box of Theros and Nyx plus some randoms.
I'll just wait till September and then work on a standard deck after rotation. I know it costs me a bit more but it will also give me a base of cards to starting building for the next ~15 months.
I very much appreciate all of the responses and suggestions.
If you don't like aggro then you're going to be spending hundreds of dollars building a deck. Period. End of sentence.
not necessarily true, i run an izzet control build that does decently enough on mtgo that i built for under $40.
MBD can also be built pretty cheaply if you leave out the mutavaults. sure it won't be quite as good then, but it can still perform.
basically mutavault is half the cost of a lot of the competitive decks right now. if you can find a way to work without it, any deck can be pretty cheap.
if i were starting right now, and money wasn't an issue, i would work with either r/g monsters (which will still be viable when domri rade rotates)or MBD
Buying top tier decks is hands down the most boring way to play magic.
I agree entirely. I have accepted that netdecking is a vital part of the game and that it's not a sin to look up a list someone else already made. That said, it does little to help your skills in deckbuilding or card analysis and it doesn't teach you how to work through difficult lines of play. Ingenuity is pivotal in making decks - because building a new powerful deck isn't a privilege given only to the PT champs and SCG beat writers.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Hey. I might have a slightly different (and probably crappier approach) to this. Why not play some games while deciding? It sounds like you haven't really played for a long time, so I think it would be a good idea for you to get more acquainted with how the game plays now anyway. I'd recommend entering a draft. They might be a bit expensive, depending on your budget ($15 entry is typical, I think.) but you'll get 3 booster packs worth of cards, a fun night, and possibly some prizes.
When you're done drafting, you can think about what you drafted, the cards you saw, your own deck, and other people's decks. Were there any cards you really liked or found interesting? Mechanics you found interesting? You might not be able to one-for-one translate your drafting choices into a standard deck (in fact, I guarantee you won't) but you WILL have a better idea of what you enjoy playing and it's easier for both yourself looking for a deck and for other people to make suggestions if you have a good idea of the strategies you enjoy.
Yah but that locks you into playing other peoples' decks for the next season instead of starting to build a card base now so you can experiment with other things to make up your own mind about card choices.
Buying top tier decks is hands down the most boring way to play magic.
I would disagree.
There's a lot of misconceptions about net decking vs building a rogue deck (from both sides).
One of the arguments against net decking is that it seems like cheating because you didn't have to think of the idea. But after the first month or so of a new format, the metagame gets somewhat figured out and decks don't drastically change and maybe a couple of new decks pop into the meta before getting hated out as everyone adjusts to beat it. So unless you are trying to build one of those flavor of the week decks, you just aren't going to normally win without getting the idea from someone else.
If we're talking competitive, one thing that tends to happen a lot (or at least it has in this format) is a deck will take the basic premise of a deck that has been successful and try to tweak it. The recent example is mono black devotion trying to add Green for Abrupt Decay to deal with Detention Sphere and Banishing Light, and then seeing UW deck counter this move by taking out those cards and playing stuff like Planar Cleansing. This seems like it's netdecking and it's horrible, but the people that thought of this first and perhaps won a tournament because they found the wrinkle in the metagame are actually thinking about what cards that aren't currently being played that could break a matchup wide open. And those guys I would argue are more inventive and clever than the guy that makes a new brew every week.
If we're talking FNM level. Then obviously a player can get away with brewing a new deck every week. But then we get into another reason why someone would netdeck compared to building a rogue deck, and it's that netdecking gives you the opportunity to win at the most efficient cost. Let me explain what I mean. I'm not saying build a 50 dollar burn deck. What I mean by efficient is you are building a deck that you know will have a decent chance of winning every match, and so therefore you can probably go the whole rotation period without spending too much and have a competitive deck to play. For example, I had my Obzedats, Boros Reconers, Blood Barons and shock lands from Return to Ravnica. I started Rav/Theros Standard last year playing BWR using the cards above as a base. And morphed that deck over time into BW midrange. And I had to drop money on cards, but I've essentially played the same deck this entire year. So I'm spending much less money than the guy trying to build the next rogue deck that will break the format.
Edit:
I'll answer Vaelyn's question as well. It seems like a bunch of users have already given good advice. Because you make the point that you haven't played in a long time, I feel the need to emphasize the cost factor in Standard. It can become really expensive if you want to build a good deck. And then with the way that the format rotates every year, you are basically spending money all the time. Now, if you can afford it, then it isn't an issue. But if you can see cost being a factor... then I strongly recommend getting into Commander. That format is made for players that don't want to dump 200+ dollars a year on cards/tournaments to keep up with Standard. I won't get into the rules of the game because it has it's own subforum and you can find out more there. But sufficed to say that the draw is only one of each card is allowed other than basic lands. And every set is fair game (there is a banned list of course). You can easily spend less than 100 dollars on a deck and it have a decent chance of winning a multiplayer EDH game. And your deck will never "rotate out".
The big issue is finding a group of people that play Commander. Standard is far more common as usually every store runs a tournament for it. But that's the go-to game for casual players it seems.
I'll answer Vaelyn's question as well. It seems like a bunch of users have already given good advice. Because you make the point that you haven't played in a long time, I feel the need to emphasize the cost factor in Standard. It can become really expensive if you want to build a good deck. And then with the way that the format rotates every year, you are basically spending money all the time. Now, if you can afford it, then it isn't an issue. But if you can see cost being a factor... then I strongly recommend getting into Commander. That format is made for players that don't want to dump 200+ dollars a year on cards/tournaments to keep up with Standard. I won't get into the rules of the game because it has it's own subforum and you can find out more there. But sufficed to say that the draw is only one of each card is allowed other than basic lands. And every set is fair game (there is a banned list of course). You can easily spend less than 100 dollars on a deck and it have a decent chance of winning a multiplayer EDH game. And your deck will never "rotate out".
The big issue is finding a group of people that play Commander. Standard is far more common as usually every store runs a tournament for it. But that's the go-to game for casual players it seems.
I actually have to disagree with this. I dislike recommending commander based on cost alone, because it's very, very different from standard, in both deck construction and playstyle. For instance, some people just don't like multiplayer, and unfortunately, if you want to play 1v1 commander, things get a lot more costly and competitive.
I actually have to disagree with this. I dislike recommending commander based on cost alone, because it's very, very different from standard, in both deck construction and playstyle. For instance, some people just don't like multiplayer, and unfortunately, if you want to play 1v1 commander, things get a lot more costly and competitive.
The only reason someone wouldn't like commander is because of the lack of competitiveness that comes from the game being played mutliplayer. But that would mean that the hypothetical person is getting into Standard specifically because it scratches that competitive itch, and if that's the case then obviously you should play Standard over Commander.
The reason I bring it up is because cost is the big hurdle for people getting into Magic and the way Commander handles the cost issue is pretty good. Now, you do bring up a good point in that at the highest level of Commander, you have people playing 5 color decks with infinite combos or 3 color decks that are extremely consistent and can reach a specific board state pretty fast. But there's a level of 1 on 1 a tier below that where someone can build a Prime Speaker Zegana beatdown deck that still plays a lot of the creature tutors, expensive cards in those colors (Skullclamp, Top, Sylvan Library, Venser, etc) and do well against the majority of players you'd find 1 on 1. The biggest issue is that it's much more rare to find a 1 v 1 EDH tournament.
I actually have to disagree with this. I dislike recommending commander based on cost alone, because it's very, very different from standard, in both deck construction and playstyle. For instance, some people just don't like multiplayer, and unfortunately, if you want to play 1v1 commander, things get a lot more costly and competitive.
The only reason someone wouldn't like commander is because of the lack of competitiveness that comes from the game being played mutliplayer. But that would mean that the hypothetical person is getting into Standard specifically because it scratches that competitive itch, and if that's the case then obviously you should play Standard over Commander.
Or someone doesn't like playing singleton. Or someone dislikes the deck size. Or someone dislikes playing multiplayer because it requires strategies that they don't like, or because games take a lot longer and there is a lot of waiting for it to be your turn again.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
I am not sure why in a post asking about getting into competitive Standard someone suggested Commander, but one thing I do know can help is having people you can trade with. If you get with a group of people and have agreements for first trades, it can make building a deck much easier. If you are the mono-black player in your group, having the other people come to you first with the black cards they get can really speed up how quickly you get the cards you need.
Plus, if it is a good group with a level of trust, you can trade down compared to what you might get on the open market because you know (and trust) that sooner or later there will be a situation where you will trade up. It really can work and make a big difference in my experience.
My advice is to play block, and then get into standard once KTK hit the shelves. good luck.
Honestly, if you can find a store that will do block, or a playgroup at least, I'd second this. It'll give you a better look at what the format might look like after rotation and is most likely going to cost you a little less.
The boss sligh advice is very sound costing only $26 and being reasonably competitive. Mono black aggro is another reasonably priced deck and almost none of the cards are rotating.
Could you recommend a couple deck lists for these? Everything I'm finding includes a bunch of cards that are rotating out and I am in a similar position as the OP. Just getting in to the game at a serious level and want to starting going to FNM but want to buy a deck that will still be strong post rotation.
Thanks!
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I could buy a deck now with singles but half of those cards are going to rotate out, so that seems like a waste. I could start with Core 2015 and pick up a box of Theros and Journey into Nyx (as those seem to be the best of the last block), then in September start with the new block, but that would put any semi-competitive deck 2-3 months out really I think.
Any recommendations?
Last time I played was back in 96-99, but even then it was more kitchen table casual play.
If you have the money, buy a booster box of each Theros and Journey into Nyx, and maybe 10ish packs of Born of the Gods. Then just see which cards you like and start building around them. Will only cost you ~$350ish dollars to do all that and you'll have ample cards to play competitively now with Boss Sligh, and have enough cards to get a feel for the format and trade up to the things you decide you want to play after rotation.
In case you hate red decks, other cheapish FNM-worthy standard builds include mostly BG decks - constellation and dredge.
And whatever you do - never be afraid to buy temple lands. They're affordable and set to be very useful for the next 15 months.
I wouldn't recommend grabbing booster boxes and building a deck as any deck you'll buy will have maybe 1 of any powerful card you need 4 of and won't be remotely competitive. You really need to determine what kind of strategy you want to execute and focus on making that specific deck as perfect as you can make it. Some people try to jump deck to deck to capitalize on the evolving metagame, but you generally want to find the strategy that suits you personally and practice as much as possible.
If you want a breakdown of the prevailing strategies I can give you summaries in a follow up post.
As for style, I have watched a lot of matches and kept up on the primary decks out there; there are a few decks I like right now, my big concern is I haven't kept up during a rotation before so I am not sure if they will remain viable. I prefer control or midrange over agro; here are some of the decks I like the play of:
Esper Control (but it will be losing rev, supereme verdict, etc.)
Junk Mid-range (abrupt decay, land base with ravnica being rotated, etc.)
Green / White or Green / Black decks are interesting (re-animator, dredge, hexproof)
I don't like red at all, and I am not a fan of agro.
like will there likely be a U/W or Esper control deck that can be competitive after rotation? or do we now know enough yet since M 2015 hasn't been spoiled yet.
As for what to grab now, I'd look at what did well in block constructed - most of the top8 decks at the most recent pro tour (surprise surprise, it was block!) were green-based midrange decks, and most ran black or red as a secondary color. That means cards like sylvan caryatid, courser of kruphix, Stormbreath Dragon and thoughtseize will be very useful to have for the coming year. But what I'd recommend is to find a deck (preferably one without too many key pieces from ravnica block) and focus on that - if you're a good player, you'll find a way to make that deck work.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Buying top tier decks is hands down the most boring way to play magic.
Sylvan Caryatid
Eidolon of Blossoms maybe
Boon Satyr
Fleecemane Lion
Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Polukranos, World Eater
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Banishing Light
This is a pretty reliable base for a competitive deck as well as going into rotation. With enough practice you can be competitive with a green/white midrange deck. Voice of Resurgence is rotating but might not lose much value as it is used in the extremely popular Birthing Pod decks in Modern. Bottomline you will have to buy some cards that are imminently rotating if you want to be competitive for the next 3 months. But this is a stable, non-rotating list to start a deck from.
Magic 2015 is about to hit. When Khans of Tarkir hits, we will have RTR-GTC-DGM-M14 rotate out.
I say to plan for next rotation and look at THS-BNG-JOU Block Constructed for the time being.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/block
http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=BL&meta=64
I wouldn't call these absolute best predictions for "what's to come," but there is zero rotation in the above.
I decided to go ahead and just plan for the block ahead. I bought a box of Theros and Nyx plus some randoms.
I'll just wait till September and then work on a standard deck after rotation. I know it costs me a bit more but it will also give me a base of cards to starting building for the next ~15 months.
I very much appreciate all of the responses and suggestions.
not necessarily true, i run an izzet control build that does decently enough on mtgo that i built for under $40.
MBD can also be built pretty cheaply if you leave out the mutavaults. sure it won't be quite as good then, but it can still perform.
basically mutavault is half the cost of a lot of the competitive decks right now. if you can find a way to work without it, any deck can be pretty cheap.
if i were starting right now, and money wasn't an issue, i would work with either r/g monsters (which will still be viable when domri rade rotates)or MBD
I agree entirely. I have accepted that netdecking is a vital part of the game and that it's not a sin to look up a list someone else already made. That said, it does little to help your skills in deckbuilding or card analysis and it doesn't teach you how to work through difficult lines of play. Ingenuity is pivotal in making decks - because building a new powerful deck isn't a privilege given only to the PT champs and SCG beat writers.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
When you're done drafting, you can think about what you drafted, the cards you saw, your own deck, and other people's decks. Were there any cards you really liked or found interesting? Mechanics you found interesting? You might not be able to one-for-one translate your drafting choices into a standard deck (in fact, I guarantee you won't) but you WILL have a better idea of what you enjoy playing and it's easier for both yourself looking for a deck and for other people to make suggestions if you have a good idea of the strategies you enjoy.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
I would disagree.
There's a lot of misconceptions about net decking vs building a rogue deck (from both sides).
One of the arguments against net decking is that it seems like cheating because you didn't have to think of the idea. But after the first month or so of a new format, the metagame gets somewhat figured out and decks don't drastically change and maybe a couple of new decks pop into the meta before getting hated out as everyone adjusts to beat it. So unless you are trying to build one of those flavor of the week decks, you just aren't going to normally win without getting the idea from someone else.
If we're talking competitive, one thing that tends to happen a lot (or at least it has in this format) is a deck will take the basic premise of a deck that has been successful and try to tweak it. The recent example is mono black devotion trying to add Green for Abrupt Decay to deal with Detention Sphere and Banishing Light, and then seeing UW deck counter this move by taking out those cards and playing stuff like Planar Cleansing. This seems like it's netdecking and it's horrible, but the people that thought of this first and perhaps won a tournament because they found the wrinkle in the metagame are actually thinking about what cards that aren't currently being played that could break a matchup wide open. And those guys I would argue are more inventive and clever than the guy that makes a new brew every week.
If we're talking FNM level. Then obviously a player can get away with brewing a new deck every week. But then we get into another reason why someone would netdeck compared to building a rogue deck, and it's that netdecking gives you the opportunity to win at the most efficient cost. Let me explain what I mean. I'm not saying build a 50 dollar burn deck. What I mean by efficient is you are building a deck that you know will have a decent chance of winning every match, and so therefore you can probably go the whole rotation period without spending too much and have a competitive deck to play. For example, I had my Obzedats, Boros Reconers, Blood Barons and shock lands from Return to Ravnica. I started Rav/Theros Standard last year playing BWR using the cards above as a base. And morphed that deck over time into BW midrange. And I had to drop money on cards, but I've essentially played the same deck this entire year. So I'm spending much less money than the guy trying to build the next rogue deck that will break the format.
Edit:
I'll answer Vaelyn's question as well. It seems like a bunch of users have already given good advice. Because you make the point that you haven't played in a long time, I feel the need to emphasize the cost factor in Standard. It can become really expensive if you want to build a good deck. And then with the way that the format rotates every year, you are basically spending money all the time. Now, if you can afford it, then it isn't an issue. But if you can see cost being a factor... then I strongly recommend getting into Commander. That format is made for players that don't want to dump 200+ dollars a year on cards/tournaments to keep up with Standard. I won't get into the rules of the game because it has it's own subforum and you can find out more there. But sufficed to say that the draw is only one of each card is allowed other than basic lands. And every set is fair game (there is a banned list of course). You can easily spend less than 100 dollars on a deck and it have a decent chance of winning a multiplayer EDH game. And your deck will never "rotate out".
The big issue is finding a group of people that play Commander. Standard is far more common as usually every store runs a tournament for it. But that's the go-to game for casual players it seems.
I actually have to disagree with this. I dislike recommending commander based on cost alone, because it's very, very different from standard, in both deck construction and playstyle. For instance, some people just don't like multiplayer, and unfortunately, if you want to play 1v1 commander, things get a lot more costly and competitive.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
The only reason someone wouldn't like commander is because of the lack of competitiveness that comes from the game being played mutliplayer. But that would mean that the hypothetical person is getting into Standard specifically because it scratches that competitive itch, and if that's the case then obviously you should play Standard over Commander.
The reason I bring it up is because cost is the big hurdle for people getting into Magic and the way Commander handles the cost issue is pretty good. Now, you do bring up a good point in that at the highest level of Commander, you have people playing 5 color decks with infinite combos or 3 color decks that are extremely consistent and can reach a specific board state pretty fast. But there's a level of 1 on 1 a tier below that where someone can build a Prime Speaker Zegana beatdown deck that still plays a lot of the creature tutors, expensive cards in those colors (Skullclamp, Top, Sylvan Library, Venser, etc) and do well against the majority of players you'd find 1 on 1. The biggest issue is that it's much more rare to find a 1 v 1 EDH tournament.
Or someone doesn't like playing singleton. Or someone dislikes the deck size. Or someone dislikes playing multiplayer because it requires strategies that they don't like, or because games take a lot longer and there is a lot of waiting for it to be your turn again.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Plus, if it is a good group with a level of trust, you can trade down compared to what you might get on the open market because you know (and trust) that sooner or later there will be a situation where you will trade up. It really can work and make a big difference in my experience.
Honestly, if you can find a store that will do block, or a playgroup at least, I'd second this. It'll give you a better look at what the format might look like after rotation and is most likely going to cost you a little less.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
Could you recommend a couple deck lists for these? Everything I'm finding includes a bunch of cards that are rotating out and I am in a similar position as the OP. Just getting in to the game at a serious level and want to starting going to FNM but want to buy a deck that will still be strong post rotation.
Thanks!