Any tips n how to beat Azorius or Bant control? It seems like the best I can do is draw 1 to 1 against it. All they do is counter my spells and gain health. Erebos is even weaker against them now with Deicide. For sideboard I usually switch out:
- 4 Nightveils
- 3 Bile Blights
- 3 Devour flesh
+ 4 Lifebanes
+ 2 Pithing Needles
+ 4 Duress
Yes, almost my whole sideboard is dedicated to beating this... or surviving lol.
I rock 4 R/B temple and 4 R/B Shockland solely for 3 Rakdos's Return in sideboard. The 8 red sources are plenty for a turn 6 or 7 play. The idea is to wait until they've tapped out for a planeswalker, then shred their hand and kill the walker.
I still think Erebos is worth it. Even if they have the answer, if you play him on turn 6 you get a +1 from the interaction, and if they don't have the answer, they're in trouble.
Pithing Needle is meh, I think. You have 4 Hero's Downfall anyway. What are you turning off?
I also don't understand why Nightveil is worse than Lifebane.
You also don't need 4 Duress. That just puts both of you in a topdeck war, which they will win because they have temples.
Duress is definitely worth it. Black is full of threats that must be answered within a turn or two (Pack Rat, Desecration Demon, Underworld Connections, Nightveil Specter, Erebos) or the game is lost. Duress lets you force one of these down and keep it in play.
^^^ that was true when control was bad and had to play a different answer for each threat. Now all 5 of the cards you listed can be undone at their leisure by Detention Sphere, Banishing Light, and one of Verdict/Deicide.
I would advice you to simply practise more. If you're monoblack splashing red or green would be beneficial too. Red gives Slaughter Games and RR, green gives Golgari Charm and Vraska. I might be forgetting some relevant cards.
There are lots of ways to beat control. Play super fast decks with lots of 1 drops, haste etc. Then the black plan with thoughtsieze, duress, slaughter games, lifebane zombie etc. Black also has xathrid necromancer which can help out heroic style decks. Alternatively... you could play control
Can you post your deck so we can see what you've got in there especially Lands to give you options if you splash. Dedicating most of your sideboard to a certain deck isnt a big issue if your main deck can handle most other decks. And also what variations and/or specific cards in Bant and Azorious that you are having the most issue with. An example would be Golgari Charm to deal with Supreme Verdict and Enchantments Bant may use. Abrupt Decay is also a good card vs Bant to take out Enchantments and other stuff. So splashing G with Overgrown Tomb and Temple of Malady. Ratchet Bomb is another option to deal with tough threats.
Assuming you're playing a MBD/x variant, I'd say just learn how to beat the deck by playing against it more. You have a good sideboard vs. control, and in my opinion it makes you favorable post board.
you leave in the nightveil specters versus UW/x control
I dont know your exact deck list but this is a general sideboard i tell my friends to play against me ( i stictly play UW control)
+3 zombies
+4 duress
+2 erebos
-1 downfall
-3 devour flesh
-2 pack rat
-1 demon
-2 bile blight
here are my reasonings for the cuts. Pack rat and demon are just bad against a deck which can 1 for 1 so well with azorius charm, celestial flare, last breath, verdict, and detention sphere. You do not win this matchup by catching them off guard with a demon or pack rat. you have to slowly do damage to them while keeping up with their 1 for 1's and sphinx rev's by using your own underworld connections. Lifebane zombie is a strict upgrade from both pack rat and demon in this matchup because it dodges last breath, gets to see their hand, and can attack past elspeth tokens. You can shave 1 or 2 downfalls because the only real target is elspeth. Jace you can usually just kill with a mutavault or creature next turn. Removing 2 bile blight (assuming you mainboard 3) is obvious because while killing elspeth tokens then killing her directly is nice, you still have 3 downfalls in your deck for elspeth. Erebos is obvious because you do not want them gaining life from their revelations. Even if they keep up with your underworld connections, they will eventually die because they cannot gain life. Sure it will get d sphered or deicided, but this is an enchant removal that is not being used on an underworld connection, your best card in this matchup.
I don't fear black devotion matchup at all, you guys always board into 8 discard spells so by turn 5 we're in a top deck war, and uw will win that fight pretty consistently
But as mentioned, nightveils are in the deck just for uw control decks, siding them out is comparable to siding out thoughtseize against uw, huge mistake.
I play an Azorious Control deck and the single card that gives me the most trouble is Kiora, The Crashing Wave.
After that, the thing that gives me the most trouble is my opponent's strategy. Putting all your creatures out as fast as possible pretty much gives the game away. Control wins by generating a card advantage. When you trade 5 creatures for one supreme verdict, and maybe the 5 damage your creatures did the previous turn, you just gave up a huge card advantage. Now you are stuck topdecking it while your opponent continues to advance his position.
You should have more creatures than he has answers for. Make him use his supreme verdict or planar cleansing on your 3/1 you keep hitting with every turn. Creatures with haste and especially flash play well into this strategy, as this makes their one-for-removal harder to use. If you play that game, all you have to worry about is how long until they draw aetherling or one of their two elsepeth. If they get them out on turn 6,7, or 8, you were unlucky, as the odds were against them drawing one of those three cards so early. So just play the odds.
At least that is what I have noticed as a control player.
IMO, G/W could be very good against control with cards like Ex One (regenerates), Fleecemane Lion (beatstick that can go hexproof/indestructible "in response"), Voice (value), Advent of the Wurm (get a 5/5 at EOT when they tap out for verdict) GW Ajani (make that Wurm an 8/8...)
R/G also seems good. You have raw power in cards like Polukranos, a lot of reach with Stormbreath and Rampager, and you play a lot of CA generating planeswalkers which are harder for control to deal with. And when they -do- Dsphere your pw, you have Destructive Revelry.
Mono red devotion might also have some game if it can stick a Hammer and Purphoros then cheese with double devotion guys like Ash Zealot or BTE to turn on Purphoros and swing for 11 out of nowhere. But I see it being less consistent then other strategies.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard
I wouldn't be taking out any amount of Nightveil Specter for the matchup. Keep in mind that you are the beatdown. If something has a body, it's probably worth playing against control.
You don't want to be running too many copies of Hero's Downfall in this matchup because that means you're clogging up spots in your 60 with reactive cards. UW has very few targets that you can Downfall anyways. Sure having a minor number to answer Elspeth is probably fine, but Jace is very rarely worth burning a Downfall on, as you're basically one-for-oneing after he already cycled Jace to get the best of the 3 cards on top of his library. You'd rather just quickly finish it off afterwards with a Mutavault or continue putting pressure on your opponent.
Also, I definitely think you should fit Erebos into your sideboard. Not having lifegain puts so much more pressure on them as Sphinx's Rev time walks them without buying time with lifegain, and Erebos will be an active 5/7 indestructible beater very often. It also serves as an extra copy of Underworld Connections to out card advantage the control deck.
Make sure you're timing your Thoughtseize and Duresses well. Against control, T1 Thoughtseize is rarely the optimal time to fire it off. They don't have any early action anyways so you're just missing out of catching their later draws. You generally want to fire off a Thoughtseize right before jamming down a powerful card like an Erebos or an Underworld Connections. This can clear the countermagic/removal spell of their hand so you can play your threat.
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- 4 Nightveils
- 3 Bile Blights
- 3 Devour flesh
+ 4 Lifebanes
+ 2 Pithing Needles
+ 4 Duress
Yes, almost my whole sideboard is dedicated to beating this... or surviving lol.
I still think Erebos is worth it. Even if they have the answer, if you play him on turn 6 you get a +1 from the interaction, and if they don't have the answer, they're in trouble.
Pithing Needle is meh, I think. You have 4 Hero's Downfall anyway. What are you turning off?
I also don't understand why Nightveil is worse than Lifebane.
You also don't need 4 Duress. That just puts both of you in a topdeck war, which they will win because they have temples.
or almost win before they supreme vedict then kill them with haste creature or burn spells.
skullcrack on Sphinxes Rev.
thoughsieze away supreme vedict or sphinxes rev or Jace (which draws them cards and buys them time) then draw more cards than them with underworld connections.
Play creatures that live through verdict or creatures with immediate effects Haste/Bestow/ETB as they have almost only sorcery speed removal.
Speed
Reach
Resilience
Hand disruption
Card advantage
You need at least two of these preferably three.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Youtube Channel
I dont know your exact deck list but this is a general sideboard i tell my friends to play against me ( i stictly play UW control)
+3 zombies
+4 duress
+2 erebos
-1 downfall
-3 devour flesh
-2 pack rat
-1 demon
-2 bile blight
here are my reasonings for the cuts. Pack rat and demon are just bad against a deck which can 1 for 1 so well with azorius charm, celestial flare, last breath, verdict, and detention sphere. You do not win this matchup by catching them off guard with a demon or pack rat. you have to slowly do damage to them while keeping up with their 1 for 1's and sphinx rev's by using your own underworld connections. Lifebane zombie is a strict upgrade from both pack rat and demon in this matchup because it dodges last breath, gets to see their hand, and can attack past elspeth tokens. You can shave 1 or 2 downfalls because the only real target is elspeth. Jace you can usually just kill with a mutavault or creature next turn. Removing 2 bile blight (assuming you mainboard 3) is obvious because while killing elspeth tokens then killing her directly is nice, you still have 3 downfalls in your deck for elspeth. Erebos is obvious because you do not want them gaining life from their revelations. Even if they keep up with your underworld connections, they will eventually die because they cannot gain life. Sure it will get d sphered or deicided, but this is an enchant removal that is not being used on an underworld connection, your best card in this matchup.
GB Constellation GB
UB Control UB
Modern
Tarmo-twin RUG
Legacy
RUG Delver RUG
Miracles UWR
But as mentioned, nightveils are in the deck just for uw control decks, siding them out is comparable to siding out thoughtseize against uw, huge mistake.
After that, the thing that gives me the most trouble is my opponent's strategy. Putting all your creatures out as fast as possible pretty much gives the game away. Control wins by generating a card advantage. When you trade 5 creatures for one supreme verdict, and maybe the 5 damage your creatures did the previous turn, you just gave up a huge card advantage. Now you are stuck topdecking it while your opponent continues to advance his position.
You should have more creatures than he has answers for. Make him use his supreme verdict or planar cleansing on your 3/1 you keep hitting with every turn. Creatures with haste and especially flash play well into this strategy, as this makes their one-for-removal harder to use. If you play that game, all you have to worry about is how long until they draw aetherling or one of their two elsepeth. If they get them out on turn 6,7, or 8, you were unlucky, as the odds were against them drawing one of those three cards so early. So just play the odds.
At least that is what I have noticed as a control player.
R/G also seems good. You have raw power in cards like Polukranos, a lot of reach with Stormbreath and Rampager, and you play a lot of CA generating planeswalkers which are harder for control to deal with. And when they -do- Dsphere your pw, you have Destructive Revelry.
Mono red devotion might also have some game if it can stick a Hammer and Purphoros then cheese with double devotion guys like Ash Zealot or BTE to turn on Purphoros and swing for 11 out of nowhere. But I see it being less consistent then other strategies.
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard
You don't want to be running too many copies of Hero's Downfall in this matchup because that means you're clogging up spots in your 60 with reactive cards. UW has very few targets that you can Downfall anyways. Sure having a minor number to answer Elspeth is probably fine, but Jace is very rarely worth burning a Downfall on, as you're basically one-for-oneing after he already cycled Jace to get the best of the 3 cards on top of his library. You'd rather just quickly finish it off afterwards with a Mutavault or continue putting pressure on your opponent.
Also, I definitely think you should fit Erebos into your sideboard. Not having lifegain puts so much more pressure on them as Sphinx's Rev time walks them without buying time with lifegain, and Erebos will be an active 5/7 indestructible beater very often. It also serves as an extra copy of Underworld Connections to out card advantage the control deck.
Make sure you're timing your Thoughtseize and Duresses well. Against control, T1 Thoughtseize is rarely the optimal time to fire it off. They don't have any early action anyways so you're just missing out of catching their later draws. You generally want to fire off a Thoughtseize right before jamming down a powerful card like an Erebos or an Underworld Connections. This can clear the countermagic/removal spell of their hand so you can play your threat.