R/W Burn finished 1st and 4th at SCG OpenL Knoxville. Looks like this deck can hang with the big boys.
It is the Mono Black killer. When the meta saw a critical mass of Mono Block R/W burn came in to put it in check. That is when this deck is at it's best.
Since JOU I have also topped 4ed or better in 7 local events in a meta dominated by the top 4. ve
Boros Burn got some interesting tools
O-Ring 2.0
Dictate of the Twin gods
Magma Spray
Have to say, my best win so far has been against the 1 Mono blue player still playing in area. EOT Flash in Dicate. My Main phase, land for turn Spark Trooper, swing (opponent mistakingly chumps with master I assign 1 damage to him) Boros charm get through with 23. 11 double it to make 22, 13 overkill.
LOL. Nice to see R/W Burn doing well. My cumulative record with R/W Burn is 14-4-2. I have made top 8 almost every week I played this deck except one, where I tried 3 Mutavaults mainboard. I got manascrewed so many times that FNM lol. Needless to say, went back down to 2 Mutavaults, and thus went back to dominating.
I have 4 Mutavault MB and have not had any problems, especially since mana confluence hit standard. That said, I run a YP$ list, not an ash zealot list. I dont have to hit until turn 3, usually not until turn 4 or later.
I am just still torn on what other dudes i want in my mainboard alongside Phoenix. Eidolon to me is awful even though it won a SCG open. Just thinking if keeping Zealot in the main is right or maybe moving Firedancer is right. I guess I need more testing before states to know.
R/W Burn finished 1st and 4th at SCG OpenL Knoxville. Looks like this deck can hang with the big boys.
It is the Mono Black killer. When the meta saw a critical mass of Mono Block R/W burn came in to put it in check. That is when this deck is at it's best.
Nah.
One Mono black deck had a Whip of Erebos sided in the top 8. Some builds had 2 Pharika's Cure.
Everyone thought Boros Burn was dead and forgot to respect it.
I don't think that will happen again.
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current decks: Modern - Bogle, Infect (hey, i'm new!) EDH - Prime Speaker Zegana, Reaper King Standard - MBD, G/b Devotion, Blue Devotion, Boros Burn, BG Dredge, W/G Aggro, Dimir Heroic
I played 30 some games last night on Cockatrice and Eidolon was extremely disappointing. It literally makes both players scramble, and against monsters when they start throwing down Polukranos and Stormbreath - things that don't trigger Eidolon - the opponent gets ahead. Those are just my observations though, and I would feel comfortable running something else over him:
Boros Reckoner - set him up as a wall to cast spells behind. He'll eventually die but not before distributing a healthy amount of damage back to the dome. Dead against control.
Stormbreath Dragon - maybe 2-3, as this hurts the curve a bit. He can swoop in for 4 but will often die the following turn, so I'm not sure if he's worth it. You'll also not likely be going monstrous with him in this deck. The pro white is highly valuable though with Banishing Light becoming prevalent.
Sparktrooper - Interesting fella. I've had several games where he has turned the tables completely in my favor.
Ash Zealot - I say no. Outright no. Ashely gets in for 2 on turn 2 on the play, and after that it can be a complete dead card unless there's an empty board. I don't think Burn wants that. I get shutdown a lot by Sylvan Caryatid, which seems to be very popular right now across multiple archetypes.
I personally prefer Ash Zealot over Eidolon, Young Pyromancer, and Satyr Firedancer. I used to play RDW, so with Ash Zealot, I can still do the turn 1 Cackler, turn 2 Zealot swing for 4, turn 3 Chandra's Phoenix swing for 6, and turn 4 alpha swing with burn to finish my opponent off.
If anything, Burn has become far more prevalent and dominant in my LGS after Journey dropped. Actually considering to jam some Nyx-Fleece Rams in my sideboard to give me that edge in racing. They're high-variance though. When you draw them early you just win. Draw them late and they're pretty dead.
Also, I noticed that every Burn player made the simple swap of turning the two Boros Guildgates into Mana Confluence. This is great, but I am actually experimenting with keeping the Guildgates and swapping two mountains for Mana Confluence. This leaves 12 Mountains for Chained to the Rocks and 12 white sources for increased consistency and the ability to run some number of Celestial Flare in the board. I like the idea of Flare because two of the worst match-ups are Monsters and Hexproof, and both of them seem like great places to board in Flare.
If you are gonna do that, you should just drop the guild gates for confluence as well. Confluence is just better. It is an untapped source for both colors in a deck that could give a ***** less about taking 1 damage from the land.
I personally prefer Ash Zealot over Eidolon, Young Pyromancer, and Satyr Firedancer. I used to play RDW, so with Ash Zealot, I can still do the turn 1 Cackler, turn 2 Zealot swing for 4, turn 3 Chandra's Phoenix swing for 6, and turn 4 alpha swing with burn to finish my opponent off.
If you are gonna do that, you should just drop the guild gates for confluence as well. Confluence is just better. It is an untapped source for both colors in a deck that could give a ***** less about taking 1 damage from the land.
You seem to have missed the part of my post where I mentioned that Burn has become far more prevalent in my area. Mana Confluence is a great card and the life-loss is irrelevant in most cases but drawing two of them in the mirror is pretty much game over.
In addition, I have some good news and some bad news for fellow burn players. I have many more games under my belt with post-journey Burn and the bad news is Ram has been a lot more annoying than it was in the first couple of weeks after release. Most notably, it turned the UW/x match-ups from almost an auto-win into merely a favorable one. This is because Rams change the dynamic of the post-board games dramatically. Before Ram, UW had to lean on Revelation, Blood Baron and Archangel for life-gain. This meant that if you could get them to six life or so by turn five, their life-gain would be extremely inefficient because they would need to tap out and you could just kill them while their pants where down. Now they can just tap two lands for Ram, and suddenly you have to jam your burn spells into their counters because if you wait too long Ram will gain too much life. I'm still winning more than I'm losing vs UW/x control, but Ram gives them a real strategy for winning that they didn't really have before. Also, in case you were wondering, Ram has been a non-issue for all other match-ups.
The good news, on the other hand, is that Black/Green Devotion is an even better match-up than mono-black. They don't run Devour Flesh in the main, they have a clunkier mana base, they can't Staff of Death Magus very well and in general they splashed in a ton of cards that burn doesn't care about. The only bad news is that they can easily kill Chained to the Rocks, so if they get the double Desecration Demon draw beating them will be hard.
Pretty sure there's something else in Standard that gains 1 life per turn (usually). Courser of Kruphix has been around for a little while and it didn't hurt Burn's chances too terribly. It is HARDER to play against as I experienced yesterday at States, but I was still able to work around them. I also don't rely on ground forces post board though. That seems like common sense to me but I guess some people will still try to force Ashley and YP against a courser/Ram.
I take back anything i said, burn is still good and its all over the place. I played 4 matches online this morning and it was all randomly against burn. People arent very creative it seems or it seems that it is the go to deck online.
Eidolon has pushed the deck up to top tier, IMO. If it comes down turn 2, you have to hurt your self to remove it, or else it will swing at you the next turn for 2 and then you still have to remove it anyways. It is at least 2 damage no matter how you look at it, but usually upwards of 4-6 damage. Its insane. I played against a guy at a local tournament this past weekend who mentioned that he doesnt think he has ever lost a game with his burn deck when playing a turn 2 Eidolon and i believe it.
Burn has enough tools to do 30 damage in a game pretty easily, so the small life gain that some decks manage isnt all that relevant unless Burn floods out and cant get their spells. If you take 2-4 damage from Eidolon and 2-4 damage from Phoenix's you might as well surrender, because they can finish you off too easily. I never feel safe even with 12 life when i end my turn against an untapped Burn player.
Its getting pretty gross to play against at hoe efficient the deck has become.
Pretty sure there's something else in Standard that gains 1 life per turn (usually). Courser of Kruphix has been around for a little while and it didn't hurt Burn's chances too terribly. It is HARDER to play against as I experienced yesterday at States, but I was still able to work around them. I also don't rely on ground forces post board though. That seems like common sense to me but I guess some people will still try to force Ashley and YP against a courser/Ram.
The deck already should play 4 Helix main deck, and it wouldnt be wrong to use a chains on Courser, IMO. Most decks that run Courser wont have that many other good chains targets besides maybe Polukranos, but you usually have to ignore him and race at that point.
Courser of Kruphix has been around for a little while and it didn't hurt Burn's chances too terribly.
The match-up vs Courser decks has a different dynamic from the match-up vs Revelation decks. Against a green-based midrange deck with Courser, you don't have to fear running your burn into a counterspell or having them suddenly gain a bunch of life via Revelations. You just need to pressure their life total and kill them before they kill you. For those decks, Courser is just a way to slightly tip the race in their favor and it doesn't even really gain all that much life.
For a Revelation deck, things are significantly different. They have tools to both gain life and stop your burn spells from resolving. Previously this was a non-issue because they couldn't gain a lot of life in the early game and in the late game if they wanted to gain any life at all they needed to tap down and leave themselves unable to play much countermagic. Also their lifegain came in big chunks and could be countered by Skullcrack. Now they have an two-mana play that, if left alone for enough time, will gain them a ton of life. Whereas before Burn was content to play draw-go and just fire off a flurry of burn when the control player was forced to cast Baron/Angel/Revelation, this is no longer a workable course of action with an active Ram gaining life on the other side of the board. Now it is the burn deck that needs to blink first in the staring contest, and the control deck can simply counter those burn spells and cast Revelations when they are up to a safe life-total to put the game away. Do note that this is not an easy, sure-fire way for Revelation decks to beat Burn. I firmly believe that Burn still has an upper hand. As I said, it turned an auto-win into a merely good match-up.
Is dictate of the twin gods good for this deck or is it winmore?
Personally, I would rather have another burn spell. Dictate doesn't come until turn 5. Usually, I am close to winning the game by then. Even if not, playing Dictate can potentially backfire.
Well usually you flash dictate in, untap and chain a few burn spells and win so the opponent doesn't get the bonus. But i was wondering if it's better to just have another burn spell, or maybe even like stormbreath dragon or something.
It is the Mono Black killer. When the meta saw a critical mass of Mono Block R/W burn came in to put it in check. That is when this deck is at it's best.
LOL. Nice to see R/W Burn doing well. My cumulative record with R/W Burn is 14-4-2. I have made top 8 almost every week I played this deck except one, where I tried 3 Mutavaults mainboard. I got manascrewed so many times that FNM lol. Needless to say, went back down to 2 Mutavaults, and thus went back to dominating.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
Nah.
One Mono black deck had a Whip of Erebos sided in the top 8. Some builds had 2 Pharika's Cure.
Everyone thought Boros Burn was dead and forgot to respect it.
I don't think that will happen again.
Modern - Bogle, Infect (hey, i'm new!)
EDH - Prime Speaker Zegana, Reaper King
Standard - MBD, G/b Devotion, Blue Devotion, Boros Burn, BG Dredge, W/G Aggro, Dimir Heroic
ENCHANTMENT AGGRO!
Boros Reckoner - set him up as a wall to cast spells behind. He'll eventually die but not before distributing a healthy amount of damage back to the dome. Dead against control.
Stormbreath Dragon - maybe 2-3, as this hurts the curve a bit. He can swoop in for 4 but will often die the following turn, so I'm not sure if he's worth it. You'll also not likely be going monstrous with him in this deck. The pro white is highly valuable though with Banishing Light becoming prevalent.
Sparktrooper - Interesting fella. I've had several games where he has turned the tables completely in my favor.
Ash Zealot - I say no. Outright no. Ashely gets in for 2 on turn 2 on the play, and after that it can be a complete dead card unless there's an empty board. I don't think Burn wants that. I get shutdown a lot by Sylvan Caryatid, which seems to be very popular right now across multiple archetypes.
If you are gonna do that, you should just drop the guild gates for confluence as well. Confluence is just better. It is an untapped source for both colors in a deck that could give a ***** less about taking 1 damage from the land.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
You aren't playing burn... You are playing RDW.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
Other Spells 24
4 Skullcrack
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader’s Helix
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light
2 Blind Obedience
2 Mana Confluence
2 Mutavault
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
12 Mountain
4 Boros Charm
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Searing Blood
3 Anger of the Gods
You seem to have missed the part of my post where I mentioned that Burn has become far more prevalent in my area. Mana Confluence is a great card and the life-loss is irrelevant in most cases but drawing two of them in the mirror is pretty much game over.
In addition, I have some good news and some bad news for fellow burn players. I have many more games under my belt with post-journey Burn and the bad news is Ram has been a lot more annoying than it was in the first couple of weeks after release. Most notably, it turned the UW/x match-ups from almost an auto-win into merely a favorable one. This is because Rams change the dynamic of the post-board games dramatically. Before Ram, UW had to lean on Revelation, Blood Baron and Archangel for life-gain. This meant that if you could get them to six life or so by turn five, their life-gain would be extremely inefficient because they would need to tap out and you could just kill them while their pants where down. Now they can just tap two lands for Ram, and suddenly you have to jam your burn spells into their counters because if you wait too long Ram will gain too much life. I'm still winning more than I'm losing vs UW/x control, but Ram gives them a real strategy for winning that they didn't really have before. Also, in case you were wondering, Ram has been a non-issue for all other match-ups.
The good news, on the other hand, is that Black/Green Devotion is an even better match-up than mono-black. They don't run Devour Flesh in the main, they have a clunkier mana base, they can't Staff of Death Magus very well and in general they splashed in a ton of cards that burn doesn't care about. The only bad news is that they can easily kill Chained to the Rocks, so if they get the double Desecration Demon draw beating them will be hard.
Eidolon has pushed the deck up to top tier, IMO. If it comes down turn 2, you have to hurt your self to remove it, or else it will swing at you the next turn for 2 and then you still have to remove it anyways. It is at least 2 damage no matter how you look at it, but usually upwards of 4-6 damage. Its insane. I played against a guy at a local tournament this past weekend who mentioned that he doesnt think he has ever lost a game with his burn deck when playing a turn 2 Eidolon and i believe it.
Burn has enough tools to do 30 damage in a game pretty easily, so the small life gain that some decks manage isnt all that relevant unless Burn floods out and cant get their spells. If you take 2-4 damage from Eidolon and 2-4 damage from Phoenix's you might as well surrender, because they can finish you off too easily. I never feel safe even with 12 life when i end my turn against an untapped Burn player.
Its getting pretty gross to play against at hoe efficient the deck has become.
that is if we have mana confluence I assume
Of all the States results posted on SCG, 4 RW Burn decks came in 1st place. There were anywhere between 0-3 Mana Confluence in those decks.
He's one of the reasons Warleader's Helix and Mizzium Mortars need to be somewhere in the 75.
The match-up vs Courser decks has a different dynamic from the match-up vs Revelation decks. Against a green-based midrange deck with Courser, you don't have to fear running your burn into a counterspell or having them suddenly gain a bunch of life via Revelations. You just need to pressure their life total and kill them before they kill you. For those decks, Courser is just a way to slightly tip the race in their favor and it doesn't even really gain all that much life.
For a Revelation deck, things are significantly different. They have tools to both gain life and stop your burn spells from resolving. Previously this was a non-issue because they couldn't gain a lot of life in the early game and in the late game if they wanted to gain any life at all they needed to tap down and leave themselves unable to play much countermagic. Also their lifegain came in big chunks and could be countered by Skullcrack. Now they have an two-mana play that, if left alone for enough time, will gain them a ton of life. Whereas before Burn was content to play draw-go and just fire off a flurry of burn when the control player was forced to cast Baron/Angel/Revelation, this is no longer a workable course of action with an active Ram gaining life on the other side of the board. Now it is the burn deck that needs to blink first in the staring contest, and the control deck can simply counter those burn spells and cast Revelations when they are up to a safe life-total to put the game away. Do note that this is not an easy, sure-fire way for Revelation decks to beat Burn. I firmly believe that Burn still has an upper hand. As I said, it turned an auto-win into a merely good match-up.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Personally, I would rather have another burn spell. Dictate doesn't come until turn 5. Usually, I am close to winning the game by then. Even if not, playing Dictate can potentially backfire.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)