Hearthstone made me appreciate this Standard, I think. It isn't perfect, but it isn't nearly as dull as that game either. It's still Magic.
Also to any who loathe the known archetypes, brew. Last weekend, with RW Burn, B/W Humans, Mono Black Aggro, etc. showed us that there is still room for innovation.
Hearthstone made me appreciate this Standard, I think. It isn't perfect, but it isn't nearly as dull as that game either. It's still Magic.
Also to any who loathe the known archetypes, brew. Last weekend, with RW Burn, B/W Humans, Mono Black Aggro, etc. showed us that there is still room for innovation.
It isnt about only being able to play certai strategies for me. Its that every game of Standard feels the same for me. All games are very linear and boring. We need some good combo decks to break the mold. Other than that aggro and control are just playing the same decks no matter the color combo. There just isn't that many viable cards right now. And I'm not alone. My shop has smaller and smaller turnouts each week. Most everyone feels the same and isn't having fun right now.
Hearthstone made me appreciate this Standard, I think. It isn't perfect, but it isn't nearly as dull as that game either. It's still Magic.
Also to any who loathe the known archetypes, brew. Last weekend, with RW Burn, B/W Humans, Mono Black Aggro, etc. showed us that there is still room for innovation.
It isnt about only being able to play certai strategies for me. Its that every game of Standard feels the same for me. All games are very linear and boring. We need some good combo decks to break the mold. Other than that aggro and control are just playing the same decks no matter the color combo. There just isn't that many viable cards right now. And I'm not alone. My shop has smaller and smaller turnouts each week. Most everyone feels the same and isn't having fun right now.
I have fun and all the people playing in big tournaments right now have too. Combo wont be a part of Standard again. Dont even get your hopes up.
Hearthstone made me appreciate this Standard, I think. It isn't perfect, but it isn't nearly as dull as that game either. It's still Magic.
Also to any who loathe the known archetypes, brew. Last weekend, with RW Burn, B/W Humans, Mono Black Aggro, etc. showed us that there is still room for innovation.
It isnt about only being able to play certai strategies for me. Its that every game of Standard feels the same for me. All games are very linear and boring. We need some good combo decks to break the mold. Other than that aggro and control are just playing the same decks no matter the color combo. There just isn't that many viable cards right now. And I'm not alone. My shop has smaller and smaller turnouts each week. Most everyone feels the same and isn't having fun right now.
I have fun and all the people playing in big tournaments right now have too. Combo wont be a part of Standard again. Dont even get your hopes up.
Well that's highly subjective. My experience is the same as above - for the first time ever legacy is more popular then standard in my LGS (with EDH being the most popular format of all with a wiiiide margin).
I cam shocked that standard got worse that Swagtusk Jund, but it did.
Any anyone calling this meta diverse is nuts. The decks that win are the same as before. Did they change a little? Sure. But the decks themselves are basically, certainly feature the same central cards.
Now, no standard will every be terribly diverse. Standard just can't be very diverse, not at the top tier, so I don't care about diversity.
But this standard, even less than the last one, features so few interesting decisions. Aristocrats had decisions to make, for example. Relevant instants are necessary for a good format. Decks that depend on specific cards and unique interactions are necessary. But right now, every deck is just play good cards.deck, and the cards all do the same thing, so you just play them in some order, rather than needing to really figure out the right play every time.
This standard is boring, not because it hasn't changed. A 1 deck meta can be awesome if that deck is fun to play against itself. This standard is boring because the only question is what cards do the two players draw, not which card do they play.
I cam shocked that standard got worse that Swagtusk Jund, but it did.
Any anyone calling this meta diverse is nuts. The decks that win are the same as before. Did they change a little? Sure. But the decks themselves are basically, certainly feature the same central cards.
Now, no standard will every be terribly diverse. Standard just can't be very diverse, not at the top tier, so I don't care about diversity.
But this standard, even less than the last one, features so few interesting decisions. Aristocrats had decisions to make, for example. Relevant instants are necessary for a good format. Decks that depend on specific cards and unique interactions are necessary. But right now, every deck is just play good cards.deck, and the cards all do the same thing, so you just play them in some order, rather than needing to really figure out the right play every time.
This standard is boring, not because it hasn't changed. A 1 deck meta can be awesome if that deck is fun to play against itself. This standard is boring because the only question is what cards do the two players draw, not which card do they play.
Dont know what your are talking about.
UW/x Control is all about making correct decisions.
Dont know what your are talking about.
UW/x Control is all about making correct decisions.
Look, I'm not saying there is no decision making. There is obviously some. I'm saying that the decision making is less than it has been previously.
As to control, I don't think there is that much decision making; You kill whatever creature they play and you sphinx when you can. Sure, there is some nuance, but not as much as we've seen even last season with American control, and certainly not as much as with, say, legacy miracles.
Also, that deck is hindered by the fact that it drags out games to the point where neither player wants to live anymore, let alone keep playing the match, means that even if it were the most interesting deck in the world makes it pretty painful to be one of the top decks in the format.
Dont know what your are talking about.
UW/x Control is all about making correct decisions.
Look, I'm not saying there is no decision making. There is obviously some. I'm saying that the decision making is less than it has been previously.
As to control, I don't think there is that much decision making; You kill whatever creature they play and you sphinx when you can. Sure, there is some nuance, but not as much as we've seen even last season with American control, and certainly not as much as with, say, legacy miracles.
Also, that deck is hindered by the fact that it drags out games to the point where neither player wants to live anymore, let alone keep playing the match, means that even if it were the most interesting deck in the world makes it pretty painful to be one of the top decks in the format.
I want to be honest. I dont care if my opponent has fun playing against me. It's their problem if they dont enjoy playing against such decks. I dont have much fun playing against 30+ creatures decks either but somehow those are ok for everyone.
I want to be honest. I dont care if my opponent has fun playing against me. It's their problem if they dont enjoy playing against such decks. I dont have much fun playing against 30+ creatures decks either but somehow those are ok for everyone.
Sure, and I have no problem with you not caring about that.
But when most of the decks aren't fun to play against, that's a problem for the format.
I want to be honest. I dont care if my opponent has fun playing against me. It's their problem if they dont enjoy playing against such decks. I dont have much fun playing against 30+ creatures decks either but somehow those are ok for everyone.
Sure, and I have no problem with you not caring about that.
But when most of the decks aren't fun to play against, that's a problem for the format.
The problem is that that is totally subjective. I didnt enjoy last season because of all the ridiculous pushed creatures. There will never be a Standard where everyone is happy.
The problem is that that is totally subjective. I didnt enjoy last season because of all the ridiculous pushed creatures. There will never be a Standard where everyone is happy.
Of course. We have to rely on GP attendance numbers, and similar things in order to see.
I'm mostly curious about what R&D thinks of this Standard format. In the eyes of Wizards, this could very well be the perfect one due to it being balanced and having all three major archetypes represented. But I get the feeling many (myself included) find this Standard to be boring...
The problem is that that is totally subjective. I didnt enjoy last season because of all the ridiculous pushed creatures. There will never be a Standard where everyone is happy.
Of course. We have to rely on GP attendance numbers, and similar things in order to see.
And having 1700 players at GP Cincinnati and 700 at SCG Open Los Angeles is a healthy number. Dont you think?
It's Magic. Pretty much it. Entirely dependent on where you live (to a small degree). My lgs's are clogged with mirrors of the latest ptq's so I stopped going. There's zero originality so there's not much point in going these days. Shut things down last month when there were 17 decks at a fnm.13 were either mbd or u/w/x. Been selling off my big name 4-of's before sept and might take another look after rtr block has cycled and things in my area have changed.
It's fun if you like netdecking. If not, then you're sol, as that's pretty much what magic is now.
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Vintage. That's about it. Maybe Standard, if it could get it together into something interesting enough to play.
That sounds like a problem of your play group, not a problem with the format. Mono Black is a reasonably inexpensive deck (besides Mutavaults, but it doesn't count 'cause every deck plays it) so it can be easily represented at that level. Summing up the entire format because of how your FNMs are going is like summing up a novel after reading the first page; it misrepresents the big picture and the actual state of the game.
GP Cincinnati, by example, has no Mono Black or Mono Blue Devotion in the Top 8, with Orzhov and Azorius popping up instead. Only 3 Esper Control decks means the deck is strong without having a stranglehold on the format, which is a far cry better than many past Standards. The Top 16 sported some more typical Black decks, but with a few others splashing Red, so the 75 is far from defined now. There's plenty of good about this Standard, and it's not just 'netdecking' (which I think is a term that should be put out to pasture, as the sharing of information regarding the game has gone so far beyond the times when that was supposedly a bad thing; now it's pretty much the norm, and this need to be original for some people- and the subsequent failure- somehow convince them that anyone who spends the time to take a more established deck and learn the nuances of it and tweak it as necessary doesn't actually do any work, which we should be able to agree is utter nonsense); knowing how to play the game well is why you see frequent competitors playing at the highest level.
I'm mostly curious about what R&D thinks of this Standard format. In the eyes of Wizards, this could very well be the perfect one due to it being balanced and having all three major archetypes represented. But I get the feeling many (myself included) find this Standard to be boring...
In terms of viable Tier 1, and Tier 1.5 decks you have...
Uw/x Control Variants (Azorious, Esper, and Bant Walkers)
Gruul/Jund Monsters
Mono Blue and U/w Devotion
Mono Black and B/W Midrange
W/x Aggro (Mono-White, W/b Humans)
R/w Burn
R/w Aggro
Esper Midrange
Rakados and Mono Black Aggro
That's a total of 16 different decks you could chose from and have a solid footing on. That's an impressive number of decks for a standard format. Minus Mutavault costing a bit of cash, none of these decks are that expensive to build either.
So what's wrong with this format? I'm personally not sure. It's not that creatures are "too good" because the U/w Control variants play few creatures and still manage to do well. It's not that control or Midrange decks are too strong, because Aggro and Burn lists keep performing well.
I think it might have to do with the fact that a lot of these new decks are less "Good Stuff.dec" like we've seen in the last few standard seasons, and they're decks that synergize and require the other cards in the deck to help out to do well. Gray Merchant is a poor card without Underworld Connections, Desecration Demon and Pack Rat giving it some support.
Likewise Gruul Monsters relies on it's Scry Lands, Courser of Cruphix and Dormi Rade +1 Triggers, in order to generate enough card advantage to fight through the control and heavy black removal decks.
So when you have a format like this that relies on cards working well together, I guess it can seem a little un-fair and un-fun when the Gruul Monster deck, sets themselves up to draw essentially draw and put into play two cards from the top of their deck, as well as gain life. You get a, "Jeeze what doesn't that deck do?" Kinda feel behind it when you're on the receiving end.
I believe that Standard currently is a diverse, and synergistic format. It's just that the synergies are kind of easy to spot (Unlike say, using Karakas and Flickerwisp together in Legacy to remove something from play permanently) yet have game winning effects.
I'm mostly curious about what R&D thinks of this Standard format. In the eyes of Wizards, this could very well be the perfect one due to it being balanced and having all three major archetypes represented. But I get the feeling many (myself included) find this Standard to be boring...
In terms of viable Tier 1, and Tier 1.5 decks you have...
Uw/x Control Variants (Azorious, Esper, and Bant Walkers)
Gruul/Jund Monsters
Mono Blue and U/w Devotion
Mono Black and B/W Midrange
W/x Aggro (Mono-White, W/b Humans)
R/w Burn
R/w Aggro
Esper Midrange
Rakados and Mono Black Aggro
That's a total of 16 different decks you could chose from and have a solid footing on. That's an impressive number of decks for a standard format. Minus Mutavault costing a bit of cash, none of these decks are that expensive to build either.
So what's wrong with this format? I'm personally not sure. It's not that creatures are "too good" because the U/w Control variants play few creatures and still manage to do well. It's not that control or Midrange decks are too strong, because Aggro and Burn lists keep performing well.
I think it might have to do with the fact that a lot of these new decks are less "Good Stuff.dec" like we've seen in the last few standard seasons, and they're decks that synergize and require the other cards in the deck to help out to do well. Gray Merchant is a poor card without Underworld Connections, Desecration Demon and Pack Rat giving it some support.
Likewise Gruul Monsters relies on it's Scry Lands, Courser of Cruphix and Dormi Rade +1 Triggers, in order to generate enough card advantage to fight through the control and heavy black removal decks.
So when you have a format like this that relies on cards working well together, I guess it can seem a little un-fair and un-fun when the Gruul Monster deck, sets themselves up to draw essentially draw and put into play two cards from the top of their deck, as well as gain life. You get a, "Jeeze what doesn't that deck do?" Kinda feel behind it when you're on the receiving end.
I believe that Standard currently is a diverse, and synergistic format. It's just that the synergies are kind of easy to spot (Unlike say, using Karakas and Flickerwisp together in Legacy to remove something from play permanently) yet have game winning effects.
The UW/x Control decks are certainly far more expensive to build than all the other decks. You really have to like that style of deck before dropping that much cash on it. On the other hand the decks run a few cards that are Modern playable or even stables so there is that.
I think it might have to do with the fact that a lot of these new decks are less "Good Stuff.dec" like we've seen in the last few standard seasons, and they're decks that synergize and require the other cards in the deck to help out to do well. Gray Merchant is a poor card without Underworld Connections, Desecration Demon and Pack Rat giving it some support.
Likewise Gruul Monsters relies on it's Scry Lands, Courser of Cruphix and Dormi Rade +1 Triggers, in order to generate enough card advantage to fight through the control and heavy black removal decks.
So when you have a format like this that relies on cards working well together, I guess it can seem a little un-fair and un-fun when the Gruul Monster deck, sets themselves up to draw essentially draw and put into play two cards from the top of their deck, as well as gain life. You get a, "Jeeze what doesn't that deck do?" Kinda feel behind it when you're on the receiving end.
I believe that Standard currently is a diverse, and synergistic format. It's just that the synergies are kind of easy to spot (Unlike say, using Karakas and Flickerwisp together in Legacy to remove something from play permanently) yet have game winning effects.
Calling those decks synergistic is a stretch.
The only deck I'd call synergistic is Monoblue Devotion, because it plays individually weak cards in order to make two cards (Thassa, God of the Sea and Master of Waves) better.
Monoblack is not a synergistic deck because of Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Gary just happens to be strong with all the other individually strong cards. You can very well take away the "synergistic" Gray Merchant and still have a very solid deck (just look at the more popular BW version.)
When I think of synergistic decks, I think of stuff like Innistrad's Reanimator or Aristocrats decks. Heck, even its tribal and token decks had more interesting synergies than the current devotion decks.
I don't hate the format. Just like you, I'm playing an Ephara, God of the Polis deck and I like it just fine. But it just isn't as crazy as what was possible during previous Standard formats. There are other more synergistic decks to build, but they are far too fragile to be played seriously (Thoughtseize being in Standard doesn't do synergistic decks any favour, that's for sure.)
I think that the current Standard is a reasonable format, but worse than the previous one. I remember just a year ago that the meta would experience seismic changes every two weeks or so. Revelation was the best, then Naya Blitz was the best, then Aristocrats, then Naya Zoo, then Junk Aristocrats, then Jund, then Gruul, etc. Now it seems that the metagame evolution is just a matter of the top decks changing distribution. When BnG dropped the meta actually contracted, with Nykthos decks and white aggro decks dropping off.
GP Cincinnati, by example, has no Mono Black or Mono Blue Devotion in the Top 8, with Orzhov and Azorius popping up instead. Only 3 Esper Control decks means the deck is strong without having a stranglehold on the format, which is a far cry better than many past Standards.
Just because MBD and MUD are now splashing White for Blood Baron and Detention Sphere doesn't somehow make them not the same decks. Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Master of Waves were still in both of those decks, which means they are still devotion decks. Let's not kid ourselves, MBD and MUD are still the kings of the format alongside Esper and UW, they just come in different sub-flavors now, but it's still the same linear gameplan of Thoughtseize, removal, removal, removal, Underworld Connections, threat, threat. Or in MUD's case, blue flier, blue flier, blue flier, Thassa, Master of Waves, Cyclonic Rift.
GP Cincinnati, by example, has no Mono Black or Mono Blue Devotion in the Top 8, with Orzhov and Azorius popping up instead. Only 3 Esper Control decks means the deck is strong without having a stranglehold on the format, which is a far cry better than many past Standards.
Just because MBD and MUD are now splashing White for Blood Baron and Detention Sphere doesn't somehow make them not the same decks. Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Master of Waves were still in both of those decks, which means they are still devotion decks. Let's not kid ourselves, MBD and MUD are still the kings of the format alongside Esper and UW, they just come in different sub-flavors now, but it's still the same linear gameplan of Thoughtseize, removal, removal, removal, Underworld Connections, threat, threat. Or in MUD's case, blue flier, blue flier, blue flier, Thassa, Master of Waves, Cyclonic Rift.
Agreed. And same goes for Esper and U/W Control, to be more of variations of the same deck than of different decks.
Dont know what your are talking about.
UW/x Control is all about making correct decisions.
Look, I'm not saying there is no decision making. There is obviously some. I'm saying that the decision making is less than it has been previously.
As to control, I don't think there is that much decision making; You kill whatever creature they play and you sphinx when you can. Sure, there is some nuance, but not as much as we've seen even last season with American control, and certainly not as much as with, say, legacy miracles.
Also, that deck is hindered by the fact that it drags out games to the point where neither player wants to live anymore, let alone keep playing the match, means that even if it were the most interesting deck in the world makes it pretty painful to be one of the top decks in the format.
You are just wrong.
Control right now might be a good deck, a really good deck in fact. But very, very few matches are what I would call easy. Forcing situations where you put control into the think tank is a pretty common and very achievable thing and where Other decks reward you for choosing the right continuous lines of play through the game, UW rewards you for making the correct game state calls at the right time which. One demands that you follow the correct endgame depending on the match and the other demands that you make the correct lines of play to get to your end game.
Control, above any other deck right now, has to work for it's wins almost across the board, where other decks are capable of simply having straight up easy and favorable matches. As a GR Monsters player, there are a number of matches where I would love to play a specific deck so I do not have to sweat to a win. As a control player, it is impossible to simply just avoid the sweating with almost any match.
I'm mostly curious about what R&D thinks of this Standard format. In the eyes of Wizards, this could very well be the perfect one due to it being balanced and having all three major archetypes represented. But I get the feeling many (myself included) find this Standard to be boring...
In terms of viable Tier 1, and Tier 1.5 decks you have...
Uw/x Control Variants (Azorious, Esper, and Bant Walkers)
Gruul/Jund Monsters
Mono Blue and U/w Devotion
Mono Black and B/W Midrange
W/x Aggro (Mono-White, W/b Humans)
R/w Burn
R/w Aggro
Esper Midrange
Rakados and Mono Black Aggro
That's a total of 16 different decks you could chose from and have a solid footing on. That's an impressive number of decks for a standard format. Minus Mutavault costing a bit of cash, none of these decks are that expensive to build either.
So what's wrong with this format? I'm personally not sure. It's not that creatures are "too good" because the U/w Control variants play few creatures and still manage to do well. It's not that control or Midrange decks are too strong, because Aggro and Burn lists keep performing well.
I think it might have to do with the fact that a lot of these new decks are less "Good Stuff.dec" like we've seen in the last few standard seasons, and they're decks that synergize and require the other cards in the deck to help out to do well. Gray Merchant is a poor card without Underworld Connections, Desecration Demon and Pack Rat giving it some support.
Likewise Gruul Monsters relies on it's Scry Lands, Courser of Cruphix and Dormi Rade +1 Triggers, in order to generate enough card advantage to fight through the control and heavy black removal decks.
So when you have a format like this that relies on cards working well together, I guess it can seem a little un-fair and un-fun when the Gruul Monster deck, sets themselves up to draw essentially draw and put into play two cards from the top of their deck, as well as gain life. You get a, "Jeeze what doesn't that deck do?" Kinda feel behind it when you're on the receiving end.
I believe that Standard currently is a diverse, and synergistic format. It's just that the synergies are kind of easy to spot (Unlike say, using Karakas and Flickerwisp together in Legacy to remove something from play permanently) yet have game winning effects.
The UW/x Control decks are certainly far more expensive to build than all the other decks. You really have to like that style of deck before dropping that much cash on it. On the other hand the decks run a few cards that are Modern playable or even stables so there is that.
Straight UW is actually pretty close to the cost of GR Monsters... there really is not much disparity between the decks and their cost and adding black for Jund is just about as expensive as adding it to UW. The gap might grow a bit, but not much. I am pretty sure I spent more on GR Monsters than I did UW Control and that includes Kiora's.
I'm just glad Hexproof is relatively tame this time around, largely suppressed by a weaker card pool/very strong Supreme Verdict decks. It still Top 8s every now and then, but Naya Hexproof ain't packing no Geists.
On topic if Control continues to dominate Mono-Black aggro (possibly splashing Duskmantle Seer) could be it's natural predator. Fast clock + Thoughtseize (and Duress after board) + some Bestow creatures (at the very least 4x Herald of Torment) and 4x Mutavault is about as good as it gets against Sphinx's Revelation decks.
Oh and as for the issue of playskill none of this is Legacy, but we know that anyways. So you have to assess what decisions control is being presented to make on a per game basis. Generally unless you curve removal -> removal -> Verdict -> permission -> Sphinx -> Elspeth -> whatever while hitting every land drop you're going to have to hit the tank, and post board hateful cards like Mistcutter Hydra make even that not so simple. Not to mention that navigating the control mirror is very skill intensive. Even when you know the basics ("hit all my land drops"/"don't die to Aethering") there's still a ton going on, between bait revs and scry decisions (you can't just bottom everything that isn't a land right? Jace is good in this matchup, but I have 3 lands in my opener...do I keep Jace on top?) and so on.
If you want to be challenged but can't be arsed to go play a format that you believe would actually challenge you then control is probably your best bet in miserable ol' Standard. Besides Heroic, of course.
Think people that have never played control would be shocked how much fun it is to play. It's like playing a completely different game.
I do hate the powerful decks in standard, though I'm crushing pretty hard on that R/W burn deck, it's like watching an action movie, so many games come down to the last few points. Loved watching Niji expertly pilot that R/W burn deck at SCGLA, was surprised how many crucial decisions you have to make. Like not attacking and trading with lifebane zombie, using Firedrinker's firebreathing en lieu of a burn spell. The appropriate burn spells like warleader's helix. Using indestructible on your boros charm.
I personally don't like any of the current decks besides my beloved blue/white control. And as important as it is to try new decks outside of tier 1, it just sucks losing all the time. Maybe the power disparity between tier 1 and brews has created a bad format? And BotG being all but utter crap I think turned people away from the game. Honestly at this point I'm just investing in underpriced cards I think will be huge next rotation.
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I haven't played a standard FNM and haven't bought singles in a month.
Most boring standard in a long time.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
Also to any who loathe the known archetypes, brew. Last weekend, with RW Burn, B/W Humans, Mono Black Aggro, etc. showed us that there is still room for innovation.
It isnt about only being able to play certai strategies for me. Its that every game of Standard feels the same for me. All games are very linear and boring. We need some good combo decks to break the mold. Other than that aggro and control are just playing the same decks no matter the color combo. There just isn't that many viable cards right now. And I'm not alone. My shop has smaller and smaller turnouts each week. Most everyone feels the same and isn't having fun right now.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
I have fun and all the people playing in big tournaments right now have too. Combo wont be a part of Standard again. Dont even get your hopes up.
Well that's highly subjective. My experience is the same as above - for the first time ever legacy is more popular then standard in my LGS (with EDH being the most popular format of all with a wiiiide margin).
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Any anyone calling this meta diverse is nuts. The decks that win are the same as before. Did they change a little? Sure. But the decks themselves are basically, certainly feature the same central cards.
Now, no standard will every be terribly diverse. Standard just can't be very diverse, not at the top tier, so I don't care about diversity.
But this standard, even less than the last one, features so few interesting decisions. Aristocrats had decisions to make, for example. Relevant instants are necessary for a good format. Decks that depend on specific cards and unique interactions are necessary. But right now, every deck is just play good cards.deck, and the cards all do the same thing, so you just play them in some order, rather than needing to really figure out the right play every time.
This standard is boring, not because it hasn't changed. A 1 deck meta can be awesome if that deck is fun to play against itself. This standard is boring because the only question is what cards do the two players draw, not which card do they play.
Dont know what your are talking about.
UW/x Control is all about making correct decisions.
Look, I'm not saying there is no decision making. There is obviously some. I'm saying that the decision making is less than it has been previously.
As to control, I don't think there is that much decision making; You kill whatever creature they play and you sphinx when you can. Sure, there is some nuance, but not as much as we've seen even last season with American control, and certainly not as much as with, say, legacy miracles.
Also, that deck is hindered by the fact that it drags out games to the point where neither player wants to live anymore, let alone keep playing the match, means that even if it were the most interesting deck in the world makes it pretty painful to be one of the top decks in the format.
I want to be honest. I dont care if my opponent has fun playing against me. It's their problem if they dont enjoy playing against such decks. I dont have much fun playing against 30+ creatures decks either but somehow those are ok for everyone.
Sure, and I have no problem with you not caring about that.
But when most of the decks aren't fun to play against, that's a problem for the format.
The problem is that that is totally subjective. I didnt enjoy last season because of all the ridiculous pushed creatures. There will never be a Standard where everyone is happy.
Of course. We have to rely on GP attendance numbers, and similar things in order to see.
And having 1700 players at GP Cincinnati and 700 at SCG Open Los Angeles is a healthy number. Dont you think?
It's fun if you like netdecking. If not, then you're sol, as that's pretty much what magic is now.
GP Cincinnati, by example, has no Mono Black or Mono Blue Devotion in the Top 8, with Orzhov and Azorius popping up instead. Only 3 Esper Control decks means the deck is strong without having a stranglehold on the format, which is a far cry better than many past Standards. The Top 16 sported some more typical Black decks, but with a few others splashing Red, so the 75 is far from defined now. There's plenty of good about this Standard, and it's not just 'netdecking' (which I think is a term that should be put out to pasture, as the sharing of information regarding the game has gone so far beyond the times when that was supposedly a bad thing; now it's pretty much the norm, and this need to be original for some people- and the subsequent failure- somehow convince them that anyone who spends the time to take a more established deck and learn the nuances of it and tweak it as necessary doesn't actually do any work, which we should be able to agree is utter nonsense); knowing how to play the game well is why you see frequent competitors playing at the highest level.
In terms of viable Tier 1, and Tier 1.5 decks you have...
That's a total of 16 different decks you could chose from and have a solid footing on. That's an impressive number of decks for a standard format. Minus Mutavault costing a bit of cash, none of these decks are that expensive to build either.
So what's wrong with this format? I'm personally not sure. It's not that creatures are "too good" because the U/w Control variants play few creatures and still manage to do well. It's not that control or Midrange decks are too strong, because Aggro and Burn lists keep performing well.
I think it might have to do with the fact that a lot of these new decks are less "Good Stuff.dec" like we've seen in the last few standard seasons, and they're decks that synergize and require the other cards in the deck to help out to do well. Gray Merchant is a poor card without Underworld Connections, Desecration Demon and Pack Rat giving it some support.
Likewise Gruul Monsters relies on it's Scry Lands, Courser of Cruphix and Dormi Rade +1 Triggers, in order to generate enough card advantage to fight through the control and heavy black removal decks.
So when you have a format like this that relies on cards working well together, I guess it can seem a little un-fair and un-fun when the Gruul Monster deck, sets themselves up to draw essentially draw and put into play two cards from the top of their deck, as well as gain life. You get a, "Jeeze what doesn't that deck do?" Kinda feel behind it when you're on the receiving end.
I believe that Standard currently is a diverse, and synergistic format. It's just that the synergies are kind of easy to spot (Unlike say, using Karakas and Flickerwisp together in Legacy to remove something from play permanently) yet have game winning effects.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
The UW/x Control decks are certainly far more expensive to build than all the other decks. You really have to like that style of deck before dropping that much cash on it. On the other hand the decks run a few cards that are Modern playable or even stables so there is that.
Calling those decks synergistic is a stretch.
The only deck I'd call synergistic is Monoblue Devotion, because it plays individually weak cards in order to make two cards (Thassa, God of the Sea and Master of Waves) better.
Monoblack is not a synergistic deck because of Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Gary just happens to be strong with all the other individually strong cards. You can very well take away the "synergistic" Gray Merchant and still have a very solid deck (just look at the more popular BW version.)
RG Monsters is even worse. Domri Rade, Courser of Kruphix and Temple of Abandon are synergistic in the same way as Restoration Angel and Thragtusk, they are all individually powerful cards that just happen to be strong together.
When I think of synergistic decks, I think of stuff like Innistrad's Reanimator or Aristocrats decks. Heck, even its tribal and token decks had more interesting synergies than the current devotion decks.
I don't hate the format. Just like you, I'm playing an Ephara, God of the Polis deck and I like it just fine. But it just isn't as crazy as what was possible during previous Standard formats. There are other more synergistic decks to build, but they are far too fragile to be played seriously (Thoughtseize being in Standard doesn't do synergistic decks any favour, that's for sure.)
Just because MBD and MUD are now splashing White for Blood Baron and Detention Sphere doesn't somehow make them not the same decks. Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Master of Waves were still in both of those decks, which means they are still devotion decks. Let's not kid ourselves, MBD and MUD are still the kings of the format alongside Esper and UW, they just come in different sub-flavors now, but it's still the same linear gameplan of Thoughtseize, removal, removal, removal, Underworld Connections, threat, threat. Or in MUD's case, blue flier, blue flier, blue flier, Thassa, Master of Waves, Cyclonic Rift.
Agreed. And same goes for Esper and U/W Control, to be more of variations of the same deck than of different decks.
You are just wrong.
Control right now might be a good deck, a really good deck in fact. But very, very few matches are what I would call easy. Forcing situations where you put control into the think tank is a pretty common and very achievable thing and where Other decks reward you for choosing the right continuous lines of play through the game, UW rewards you for making the correct game state calls at the right time which. One demands that you follow the correct endgame depending on the match and the other demands that you make the correct lines of play to get to your end game.
Control, above any other deck right now, has to work for it's wins almost across the board, where other decks are capable of simply having straight up easy and favorable matches. As a GR Monsters player, there are a number of matches where I would love to play a specific deck so I do not have to sweat to a win. As a control player, it is impossible to simply just avoid the sweating with almost any match.
Straight UW is actually pretty close to the cost of GR Monsters... there really is not much disparity between the decks and their cost and adding black for Jund is just about as expensive as adding it to UW. The gap might grow a bit, but not much. I am pretty sure I spent more on GR Monsters than I did UW Control and that includes Kiora's.
On topic if Control continues to dominate Mono-Black aggro (possibly splashing Duskmantle Seer) could be it's natural predator. Fast clock + Thoughtseize (and Duress after board) + some Bestow creatures (at the very least 4x Herald of Torment) and 4x Mutavault is about as good as it gets against Sphinx's Revelation decks.
Oh and as for the issue of playskill none of this is Legacy, but we know that anyways. So you have to assess what decisions control is being presented to make on a per game basis. Generally unless you curve removal -> removal -> Verdict -> permission -> Sphinx -> Elspeth -> whatever while hitting every land drop you're going to have to hit the tank, and post board hateful cards like Mistcutter Hydra make even that not so simple. Not to mention that navigating the control mirror is very skill intensive. Even when you know the basics ("hit all my land drops"/"don't die to Aethering") there's still a ton going on, between bait revs and scry decisions (you can't just bottom everything that isn't a land right? Jace is good in this matchup, but I have 3 lands in my opener...do I keep Jace on top?) and so on.
If you want to be challenged but can't be arsed to go play a format that you believe would actually challenge you then control is probably your best bet in miserable ol' Standard. Besides Heroic, of course.
I do hate the powerful decks in standard, though I'm crushing pretty hard on that R/W burn deck, it's like watching an action movie, so many games come down to the last few points. Loved watching Niji expertly pilot that R/W burn deck at SCGLA, was surprised how many crucial decisions you have to make. Like not attacking and trading with lifebane zombie, using Firedrinker's firebreathing en lieu of a burn spell. The appropriate burn spells like warleader's helix. Using indestructible on your boros charm.
I personally don't like any of the current decks besides my beloved blue/white control. And as important as it is to try new decks outside of tier 1, it just sucks losing all the time. Maybe the power disparity between tier 1 and brews has created a bad format? And BotG being all but utter crap I think turned people away from the game. Honestly at this point I'm just investing in underpriced cards I think will be huge next rotation.