The current deck I'm running is Esper humans and that is working out really well. I tried G/B before this but it seemed too slow and more of a mid-range deck. I'd appreciate any input anybody has on this subject.
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"As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
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B/W Humans, or Esper Humans seems to be best form of Creature based control at current. I have to say it is a lot of fun to verdict, wipe out your opponents board, and the back swing with eleventy twelve zombies.
I played a guy with an esper humans reanimater thing going on on gameday. A few low costed creatures to hold the opponent back, some self mill, verdicts, and things like whips and obzedats aid to bring his big stuff back. I also saw him board in stolen identity against a couple people and clone his own bloodbaron and go nuts. Not sure if he won but I know he made top 4. He called it solarflare but I thought that needed sun titan.
Esper Humans hasn't been doing very well - even though it is powerful when you hit everything on curve, you often suffer from mana problems and lose games that are easily winnable.
For a more viable tempo deck that doesn't lose to itself every once in a while, try Uw devotion, which is basically monoblue splash white for detention sphere and ephara.
Second the Ephara deck suggestions. You can either try Wu or Uw. If you do Wu, you'll want to use a mix of Celestial Flare + Detention Sphere as your removal of choice. Celestial Flare beats everything that beats you (Blood Baron, Stormbreath, 6/6 Demons that are attacking you, whatever). Don't use Azorius Charm it sucks, all these decks tap out so the Griptide is obvious and weak, plus it doesn't do ***** against pro white.
Uw is just MonoBlue with Ephara > Jace and Detention Sphere > Rapid Hybrization/Domestication/etc. Ephara does not replace Bident, run 1-2 of both. The 28 creature base that defines MonoBlue is solid, I wouldn't recommend playing Lyev Skyknight, Deputy of Acquitalls, or anything else that's cute.
Also a word on manabases for these decks: You'll want 4 Temple, 4 Shockland, 4 Mutavault regardless. Both these lists are probably 24-25 lands, depending on your exact configuration. To cast Ephara on T4 reliably, you'll need 11 White/Blue sources. That means you'll need either 3 Plains or Island (off color basics) or 3 Azorius Guildgate if you can't skimp on W/U. Another option if you're trying to cast Boros Reckoner/Nightveil Specter on 3 in a UW deck is to use 3 Steam Vents/Godless Shrine to replace the Plains/Island that would've been there. That way, you have a Blue or White source that casts Reckoner/Specter too.
I've lost to Esper Midrange a few times but I've also seen it brick a bunch. I don't like decks that can brick. Mutavault + Obzedat Ghost Council in your 3-color deck is asking for problems. I've seen countless T2 Soldier of Pantheon/T3 Precinct Captain. The control matchup just seems like ass too, as your deck isn't likely to fire all cylinders which gives them plenty of breathing room to Dissolve your higher threats/Whip and land medium-sized Revelations without too much trouble. You also have to contend with plenty of dead draws Game 1.
Lastly UR Tempo might be a thing going forward into Journey into Nyx. Spellheart Chimera.deck was a pretty good budget option when I played it, and 1-2 more good cards + the U/R Temple could be enough for it to be at least a T2 deck. Core is Young Pyromancer, Chimera, another threat of choice (Electromancer, Guttersnipe, Duskmantle Seer, whatever), 2 Stormbreath Dragon and a bunch of redundant burn/counters/cantrips (sadly no good cantrips in Standard, just Quicken) + 4 Steam Augury.
If you look at the current standard card pool, most threats that can win on their own cost 3 or more, there are very few cantrips, good removal is priced at 2cc+, and there are very few worthwhile counters that cost less than 3.
Pre-Theros Delver of Secrets was possible. It never posted strong results due to inconsistency but I think it placed once as a UG build. I don't think we have the tools for a tempo deck in standard. Some form of B/BW could be a thing due to the color combinations of white and black having efficient removal and 1-2drop creatures.
Pre-Theros Delver of Secrets was possible. It never posted strong results due to inconsistency but I think it placed once as a UG build. I don't think we have the tools for a tempo deck in standard. Some form of B/BW could be a thing due to the color combinations of white and black having efficient removal and 1-2drop creatures.
Yeah I played that list for awhile. It was a bit inconsistent and really suffered from flooding out. But the main thing I remember about it is that it was suprisingly easy to get a 12/12+ Quirion Dryad but it simply could not get through because it had no evasion.
As for this format, Orzhov Humans. It plays discard instead of counterspells, removal that doubles as a creature (Orzhov Charm, Banisher Priest), and has the ability to draw cards (Pain Seer) and survive lots of the strategies in this format (Xathrid Necromancer).
For those of you who say it isn't doing well, it JUST top eight'd SCG Seattle. (here)
If you look at the current standard card pool, most threats that can win on their own cost 3 or more, there are very few cantrips, good removal is priced at 2cc+, and there are very few worthwhile counters that cost less than 3.
It's not the deck. It's the archetype.
If you refer to the link I posted, you don't have to have everything 3 or less cmc. The decks you're describing are more tempo, aggro orientated, a very "aggro," aggro-control deck. Cawblade is a perfect example of an aggro-control deck that has cards costing 4 or more cmc. Faeries even played a 4 cmc counter. A perfect card for an aggro-control deck in this standard for example is Young Pyromancer. You can control the board with an army of tokens which can deter an aggressive style from your opponent, or swarm when you have enough and put serious pressure on your opponent. You're controlling the board with a lot of chump blockers, but can switch to an aggressive style when you think the game calls for it. Add blue for counters or black for removal to supplement the deck, and other creatures that will help benefit your deck.
The point is, every colour can do aggro-control, you don't have to limit your cards to 3 cmc or less, and it's the archetype, not the deck. Of course the deck chooses cards that will be both aggro or control whenever, but once you choose the style you want to play, whether it be aggro or control, then make the deck play that way.
- With Love -
- Your Dad -
- icantstandbeinginawheelchair-
If you look at the current standard card pool, most threats that can win on their own cost 3 or more, there are very few cantrips, good removal is priced at 2cc+, and there are very few worthwhile counters that cost less than 3.
It's not the deck. It's the archetype.
If you refer to the link I posted, you don't have to have everything 3 or less cmc. The decks you're describing are more tempo, aggro orientated, a very "aggro," aggro-control deck. Cawblade is a perfect example of an aggro-control deck that has cards costing 4 or more cmc. Faeries even played a 4 cmc counter. A perfect card for an aggro-control deck in this standard for example is Young Pyromancer. You can control the board with an army of tokens which can deter an aggressive style from your opponent, or swarm when you have enough and put serious pressure on your opponent. You're controlling the board with a lot of chump blockers, but can switch to an aggressive style when you think the game calls for it. Add blue for counters or black for removal to supplement the deck, and other creatures that will help benefit your deck.
The point is, every colour can do aggro-control, you don't have to limit your cards to 3 cmc or less, and it's the archetype, not the deck. Of course the deck chooses cards that will be both aggro or control whenever, but once you choose the style you want to play, whether it be aggro or control, then make the deck play that way.
- With Love -
- Your Dad -
- icantstandbeinginawheelchair-
Let's look at Caw Blade. It had cheap threats like Squadron Hawk & Stoneforge Mystic at 2cc and Celestial Colonnade as a land drop. The deck ran a cheap cantrip in Preordain. It also ran cheap removal like Lightning Bolt, Condemn, and/or cheap bounce. It also ran cheap counters in Spell Pierce and Mana Leak. And it ran cheap disruption in Tectonic Edge. The higher CC cards in Caw Blade were the broken Jace and Equipment that got put into play for 2 mana through Mystic. I never said that aggro-control couldn't run more expensive spells, but the bulk of the spells need to be relatively cheap to support the aggro side of the deck. Otherwise you get into control deck territory.
Even in the article you linked, the author explicitly stated that a true aggro-control does not exist in every format and that it would hard to imagine such a deck not playing blue. Also as the author said, many people confuse mid-range decks for aggro-control. Esper Humans that has been talked about in this thread is much more of a mid-range deck than aggro-control deck.
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Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. " - Desiderata by Max Ehrmann, 1927
Modern
For a more viable tempo deck that doesn't lose to itself every once in a while, try Uw devotion, which is basically monoblue splash white for detention sphere and ephara.
Uw is just MonoBlue with Ephara > Jace and Detention Sphere > Rapid Hybrization/Domestication/etc. Ephara does not replace Bident, run 1-2 of both. The 28 creature base that defines MonoBlue is solid, I wouldn't recommend playing Lyev Skyknight, Deputy of Acquitalls, or anything else that's cute.
Also a word on manabases for these decks: You'll want 4 Temple, 4 Shockland, 4 Mutavault regardless. Both these lists are probably 24-25 lands, depending on your exact configuration. To cast Ephara on T4 reliably, you'll need 11 White/Blue sources. That means you'll need either 3 Plains or Island (off color basics) or 3 Azorius Guildgate if you can't skimp on W/U. Another option if you're trying to cast Boros Reckoner/Nightveil Specter on 3 in a UW deck is to use 3 Steam Vents/Godless Shrine to replace the Plains/Island that would've been there. That way, you have a Blue or White source that casts Reckoner/Specter too.
I've lost to Esper Midrange a few times but I've also seen it brick a bunch. I don't like decks that can brick. Mutavault + Obzedat Ghost Council in your 3-color deck is asking for problems. I've seen countless T2 Soldier of Pantheon/T3 Precinct Captain. The control matchup just seems like ass too, as your deck isn't likely to fire all cylinders which gives them plenty of breathing room to Dissolve your higher threats/Whip and land medium-sized Revelations without too much trouble. You also have to contend with plenty of dead draws Game 1.
Lastly UR Tempo might be a thing going forward into Journey into Nyx. Spellheart Chimera.deck was a pretty good budget option when I played it, and 1-2 more good cards + the U/R Temple could be enough for it to be at least a T2 deck. Core is Young Pyromancer, Chimera, another threat of choice (Electromancer, Guttersnipe, Duskmantle Seer, whatever), 2 Stormbreath Dragon and a bunch of redundant burn/counters/cantrips (sadly no good cantrips in Standard, just Quicken) + 4 Steam Augury.
First, you need a cheap 1cc or 2cc threat that can quickly win the game on its own like Tarmogoyf or Delver of Secrets
Next, you need some decent cantrips like Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Serum Visions, or something else along those lines.
Then, you need some cheap 1CC removal like Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Dismember, or Swords to Plowshares
Finally, some cheap or free counters are key such as Force of Will, Daze, Spell Pierce, or Spell Snare
It's also nice if you can round out the deck with a little disruption from cards like Thoughseize, Stifle, or Wasteland
If you look at the current standard card pool, most threats that can win on their own cost 3 or more, there are very few cantrips, good removal is priced at 2cc+, and there are very few worthwhile counters that cost less than 3.
Yeah I played that list for awhile. It was a bit inconsistent and really suffered from flooding out. But the main thing I remember about it is that it was suprisingly easy to get a 12/12+ Quirion Dryad but it simply could not get through because it had no evasion.
As for this format, Orzhov Humans. It plays discard instead of counterspells, removal that doubles as a creature (Orzhov Charm, Banisher Priest), and has the ability to draw cards (Pain Seer) and survive lots of the strategies in this format (Xathrid Necromancer).
For those of you who say it isn't doing well, it JUST top eight'd SCG Seattle. (here)
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
It's not the deck. It's the archetype.
If you refer to the link I posted, you don't have to have everything 3 or less cmc. The decks you're describing are more tempo, aggro orientated, a very "aggro," aggro-control deck. Cawblade is a perfect example of an aggro-control deck that has cards costing 4 or more cmc. Faeries even played a 4 cmc counter. A perfect card for an aggro-control deck in this standard for example is Young Pyromancer. You can control the board with an army of tokens which can deter an aggressive style from your opponent, or swarm when you have enough and put serious pressure on your opponent. You're controlling the board with a lot of chump blockers, but can switch to an aggressive style when you think the game calls for it. Add blue for counters or black for removal to supplement the deck, and other creatures that will help benefit your deck.
The point is, every colour can do aggro-control, you don't have to limit your cards to 3 cmc or less, and it's the archetype, not the deck. Of course the deck chooses cards that will be both aggro or control whenever, but once you choose the style you want to play, whether it be aggro or control, then make the deck play that way.
- With Love -
- Your Dad -
- icantstandbeinginawheelchair-
Let's look at Caw Blade. It had cheap threats like Squadron Hawk & Stoneforge Mystic at 2cc and Celestial Colonnade as a land drop. The deck ran a cheap cantrip in Preordain. It also ran cheap removal like Lightning Bolt, Condemn, and/or cheap bounce. It also ran cheap counters in Spell Pierce and Mana Leak. And it ran cheap disruption in Tectonic Edge. The higher CC cards in Caw Blade were the broken Jace and Equipment that got put into play for 2 mana through Mystic. I never said that aggro-control couldn't run more expensive spells, but the bulk of the spells need to be relatively cheap to support the aggro side of the deck. Otherwise you get into control deck territory.
Even in the article you linked, the author explicitly stated that a true aggro-control does not exist in every format and that it would hard to imagine such a deck not playing blue. Also as the author said, many people confuse mid-range decks for aggro-control. Esper Humans that has been talked about in this thread is much more of a mid-range deck than aggro-control deck.