Although I've had some success with Orzhov Knights in Standard, I've thinking of trying Boros Knights in Pioneer first. The list will include some of the new Throne Knights and a few of the Dominaria guys but I'm thinking of an old school guy or two, such as Fiendslayer Paladin and some equipment. My initial list will resemble this league list of Boros Knights.
I don't know if I'm going to round up a copy of Iroas or not and I don't think I will run any of the enchantments main-deck at first. I will try some equipment first I think.
I'm also going to try a copy of two of Truefire Captain. It's probably way too cute, but I will at least sideboard a copy or two of Gideon's Sacrifice. It would be worth the price of admission to pull that off!
Thalia's Lieutenant can also be considered as the deck is probably humans'-centric as well.
Benalish Marshal is a decent lord for the deck but would require skewing the manabase heavily towards white.
It works well with Worthy Knight as it will buff the human tokens as well.
Thalia's Lieutenant can also be considered as the deck is probably humans'-centric as well.
Benalish Marshal is a decent lord for the deck but would require skewing the manabase heavily towards white.
It works well with Worthy Knight as it will buff the soldier tokens as well.
G actually got the best of the Legendary Knight cycle in Throne - Syr Faren, the Hengehammer - curiously as the rest of the G knights in the set are rather rubbish.
I play KoA in Modern and played the Charm in Standard heavily. 6/6 trampling Smiters were no joke nor were 5/5 double-striking, trampling Paladins. I suppose anything with double-strike and trample is a force to be reckoned with. I seem to remember Sublime Archangel was in that deck as well.
Eventually, I may well try other color-combinations. Mardu is certainly viable, I can see Abzan as well. If I don't find three copies of Fervent Champion at a reasonable price, I may just roll with Orzhov instead.
The mana works fine for Marshall I think, but it might be a problem with him and Truefire Captain. Marshall is probably better but Truefire looks like more fun.
Mimic is worth a thought, but he doesn't do anything for creatures on the board, so his value goes down as the game progresses rather than up as would be the case for a conventional lord such as Inspiring Veteran - who has to be considered an auto-include I think. Contender is a good man and probably a lock for any build with W.
I played Skyknight Legionnaire in a Hellrider deck way back when - it won a Game's Day tournament, as I recall. It was fun to curve into Hellrider and do lethal on turn-four.
I will probably not go the go-wide route with Boros, at least not at first. I want to try to do some slasher-style aggro at first. If that doesn't work, I would probably go Orzhov as I think it might support the go-wide strategy better as it can run Corpse Knight and Midnight Reaper.
History of Benalia probably likes Brave the Elements. The issue with some tribal decks will be the same as in Modern : massive evasion.
It's crucial to kill the opponent, but also to get rid of 3cmc PWs in one sweep. Oko, Tef, Scions, Lili, etc... Brave doesn't work as well vs Vehicles though. So if you can't beat them, join them and play your own vehicles I suppose...
But I believe the splash must be about the spells around the knights, not the knights themselves. Tribal decks can't be 100% linear and win in this metagame. For example I like a Simic Stompy list with the 4 Stubborn Denial splash. Mogis's Marauder is a great finisher for Bx aggro decks too.
If I had to choose between black and red, I'd go black for the great interactive spells.
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History of Benalia probably likes Brave the Elements. The issue with some tribal decks will be the same as in Modern : massive evasion.
It's crucial to kill the opponent, but also to get rid of 3cmc PWs in one sweep. Oko, Tef, Scions, Lili, etc... Brave doesn't work as well vs Vehicles though. So if you can't beat them, join them and play your own vehicles I suppose...
But I believe the splash must be about the spells around the knights, not the knights themselves. Tribal decks can't be 100% linear and win in this metagame. For example I like a Simic Stompy list with the 4 Stubborn Denial splash. Mogis's Marauder is a great finisher for Bx aggro decks too.
If I had to choose between black and red, I'd go black for the great interactive spells.
I quite like Brave the Elements myself - my Vial Knights wore it out. It's a card to consider even in Boros and Orzhoz builds as long as most of the creatures have W in their cost. This is more likely to be the case with Boros than Orzhov. Iroas, God of Victory is another from of evasion.
Embercleave seems like an almost strict upgrade to Fireshrieker in a Boros build. You need 3 creatures attacking and red mana, but other than that it is instant speed and first equip is free.
Embercleave seems like an almost strict upgrade to Fireshrieker in a Boros build. You need 3 creatures attacking and red mana, but other than that it is instant speed and first equip is free.
It may well be, but it is Legendary and costs a few bucks; I have Fireshrieker's out the wazoo.
Skyknight Vanguard seems like a decent knight for a boros build.
It has evasion and can help go wide with tokens.
I like creatures that create other creatures for minimal cost, as this time the "cost" is merely to attack. With only one power it feels underwhelming to cast at turn two, but I feel Skyknight Vanguard demands removal from the opponent.. because if left unchecked, it will keep doing damage as well as make blockers for free. Also building a knight deck, and will use 2 or 3 copies of it.
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Not sure if Steelclaw Lance or Stoneforge Masterwork is better. Masterwork is easier to cast has potential to give a bigger pump, but the lance has cheaper equip cost and gives a decent pump even if I have only one or two creatures.
Skyknight Vanguard seems like a decent knight for a boros build.
It has evasion and can help go wide with tokens.
I like creatures that create other creatures for minimal cost, as this time the "cost" is merely to attack. With only one power it feels underwhelming to cast at turn two, but I feel Skyknight Vanguard demands removal from the opponent.. because if left unchecked, it will keep doing damage as well as make blockers for free. Also building a knight deck, and will use 2 or 3 copies of it.
It's certainly worth considering for a Boros build.
I have a mardu build. Curry Favor and Alter fate from the black knights are too spicy to pass up. Red for the vanguard and steelclaw lance.
Wondering if we need some removal.. or just try to be fast and aggressive to win?
I've been playing Disfigure in Standard. I would probably swap those for Fatal Push. I also run Murderous Rider and Blacklance Paragon in Standard. The former for Swift End - real removal - and the latter for his EtB ability which is sort of pseudo-removal. I've also got some little guys with Deathtouch.
It might be difficult for a Mardu build to support Rider - or at least painful.
It hasn't been mentioned here yet but Knights have another lord (besides Inspiring Veteran) in Valiant Knight which is a bit slow but potentially a game-ender if you can untap with it and use the double-strike ability.
I have a mardu build. Curry Favor and Alter fate from the black knights are too spicy to pass up. Red for the vanguard and steelclaw lance.
Wondering if we need some removal.. or just try to be fast and aggressive to win?
I've been playing Disfigure in Standard. I would probably swap those for Fatal Push. I also run Murderous Rider and Blacklance Paragon in Standard. The former for Swift End - real removal - and the latter for his EtB ability which is sort of pseudo-removal. I've also got some little guys with Deathtouch.
It might be difficult for a Mardu build to support Rider - or at least painful.
it's because I plan to include 7-8 non-creature spells. Those would be removal, and some other things.
Unclaimed territory would be redundant with tournament grounds. Having 8 lands that cannot produce colored mana for non creature spells does not feel right.
Fabled Passage is horrendous anyway. You're an aggro deck, this card is for midrange and GY abuse only. There's definitely tension between adventure cards and the package Territory + Grounds.
I tested my lists above and found equipments to be rather unnecessary. I fail to find an archetype where Embercleave is good, it needs many creatures yet big ones so the DS + trample gets relevant. Steelclaw and Masterwork are better. I question then the use of Fervent Champion, and red altogether. There's Olivia, Mobilized for War, nice flyer, but discarding when another creature etb is a real sacrifice. Copter seems as good at being a 3/3 flyer that gives pseudo haste to a new comer, also discards cards, but is cheaper and harder to kill.
Why not a heavy black version with the best white knights ? 1-2 Urborgs should do it.
it's because I plan to include 7-8 non-creature spells. Those would be removal, and some other things.
Unclaimed territory would be redundant with tournament grounds. Having 8 lands that cannot produce colored mana for non creature spells does not feel right.
Four is too many for me, but Mardu may require it. My Standard Orzhov uses two only TG. If I roll into Pioneer with Orzhov, the TGs will get the boot. I wanted to try Boros first and still do, but it means buying cards, so it might be a little while.
I don't know if I'm going to round up a copy of Iroas or not and I don't think I will run any of the enchantments main-deck at first. I will try some equipment first I think.
Some candidates:
I'm also going to try a copy of two of Truefire Captain. It's probably way too cute, but I will at least sideboard a copy or two of Gideon's Sacrifice. It would be worth the price of admission to pull that off!
I think Banishing Light makes more sense than Conclave Tribunal and I just don't like History of Benalia.
I'm leery of running too many four-drops but some Gideon definitely belongs.
Anyone else with a Knight fetish? What are your ideas? I have fond memories of winning Modern FNMs with my mono-W Vial Knights.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Thalia's Lieutenant can also be considered as the deck is probably humans'-centric as well.
Benalish Marshal is a decent lord for the deck but would require skewing the manabase heavily towards white.
It works well with Worthy Knight as it will buff the human tokens as well.
Green has a couple of good cards:
Knight of Autumn and Selesnya Charm (2/2 flash + vigilance knight).
I play KoA in Modern and played the Charm in Standard heavily. 6/6 trampling Smiters were no joke nor were 5/5 double-striking, trampling Paladins. I suppose anything with double-strike and trample is a force to be reckoned with. I seem to remember Sublime Archangel was in that deck as well.
Eventually, I may well try other color-combinations. Mardu is certainly viable, I can see Abzan as well. If I don't find three copies of Fervent Champion at a reasonable price, I may just roll with Orzhov instead.
The mana works fine for Marshall I think, but it might be a problem with him and Truefire Captain. Marshall is probably better but Truefire looks like more fun.
Mimic is worth a thought, but he doesn't do anything for creatures on the board, so his value goes down as the game progresses rather than up as would be the case for a conventional lord such as Inspiring Veteran - who has to be considered an auto-include I think. Contender is a good man and probably a lock for any build with W.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
It has evasion and can help go wide with tokens.
Some more possible anthems for the deck can be:
Radiant Destiny and Always Watching.
I will probably not go the go-wide route with Boros, at least not at first. I want to try to do some slasher-style aggro at first. If that doesn't work, I would probably go Orzhov as I think it might support the go-wide strategy better as it can run Corpse Knight and Midnight Reaper.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
It's crucial to kill the opponent, but also to get rid of 3cmc PWs in one sweep. Oko, Tef, Scions, Lili, etc... Brave doesn't work as well vs Vehicles though. So if you can't beat them, join them and play your own vehicles I suppose...
In black, Blacklance Paragon, Oathsworn Knight, Knight of the Ebon legion, Wintermoor Commander... there's a lot more options than in green or red.
But I believe the splash must be about the spells around the knights, not the knights themselves. Tribal decks can't be 100% linear and win in this metagame. For example I like a Simic Stompy list with the 4 Stubborn Denial splash. Mogis's Marauder is a great finisher for Bx aggro decks too.
If I had to choose between black and red, I'd go black for the great interactive spells.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Mardu Knights with Combo:
4 Knight of the Ebon Legion
4 Blacklance Paragon
4 Worthy Knight
4 Famished Paladin
3 Gideon Blackblade
4 Embercleave
4 Sorcerer's Wand
21 Lands
Mardu Knights without combo:
4 Knight of the Ebon Legion
4 Blacklance Paragon
4 Worthy Knight
4 Skyknight Vanguard
3 Gideon Blackblade
4 Embercleave
4 Stoneforge Masterwork
21 Lands
What do you think ?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I like creatures that create other creatures for minimal cost, as this time the "cost" is merely to attack. With only one power it feels underwhelming to cast at turn two, but I feel Skyknight Vanguard demands removal from the opponent.. because if left unchecked, it will keep doing damage as well as make blockers for free. Also building a knight deck, and will use 2 or 3 copies of it.
_______________
Not sure if Steelclaw Lance or Stoneforge Masterwork is better. Masterwork is easier to cast has potential to give a bigger pump, but the lance has cheaper equip cost and gives a decent pump even if I have only one or two creatures.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Wondering if we need some removal.. or just try to be fast and aggressive to win?
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
It might be difficult for a Mardu build to support Rider - or at least painful.
I like Stoneforge Masterwork way more than Steelclaw Lance but I might be optimistic in my assessment.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Regarding equipment there is Sigiled Sword of Valeron to consider.
yeah, double black is tough.
I'm still working on the manabase. The lack of fetchlands is a serious drawback, but i tried putting as many fastlands as possible.
23 lands. Adding Blast Zone or Field of Ruin feels too greedy, so none of those for now.
How does this look?
1 Godless Shrine
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Tournament Grounds
1 Mountain
4 Fabled Passage
3 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Unclaimed territory would be redundant with tournament grounds. Having 8 lands that cannot produce colored mana for non creature spells does not feel right.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I tested my lists above and found equipments to be rather unnecessary. I fail to find an archetype where Embercleave is good, it needs many creatures yet big ones so the DS + trample gets relevant. Steelclaw and Masterwork are better. I question then the use of Fervent Champion, and red altogether. There's Olivia, Mobilized for War, nice flyer, but discarding when another creature etb is a real sacrifice. Copter seems as good at being a 3/3 flyer that gives pseudo haste to a new comer, also discards cards, but is cheaper and harder to kill.
Why not a heavy black version with the best white knights ? 1-2 Urborgs should do it.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn