So this deck idea came to me after considering Zephyr Scarlet's Caw Blade build. As it turns out, it was an actual deck waaay back in standard and mono white cloudpost rebels was a successful deck last year on MTGO, so I think it has potential.
The deck idea is rather simple: Keep mana open for counters with ease thanks to a mechanic that lets you play creatures at instant speed, while simultaneously creating card advantage and dishing out uncounterable threats and utility. So what cards should be run?
Rebel Creatures Ramosian Sergeant: The cheapest and best of the rebel searchers. A one mana 1/1 with a card advantage ability is really quite something. Downside is he'll mostly get other fetchers that in turn can fetch bigger things, but that's usually the most prudent strategy anyway. 4-of! Amrou Scout, Defiant Falcon, Ramosian Lieutenant: Almost the same card as you're mostly interested in the abilty to bring 3 CMC rebels onto the field. Each has slightly different pro:s and con:s - the lieutentant survives pings and blocks 1/Xs without dying, Amrou Scout can combat trick kill an X/2 off a Ramosian Sergeant and the falcon of course flies. A split seems in order. Aven Riftwatcher: Your bread and butter creature to search out, trades well and is good both on the attack an on the defense. 3 is OK as you'd rather search than hard cast them, and will have plenty anyways. Bound in Silence: Instant speed, searchable removal is powerful. When searched out with a rebel, it doesn't actually target so it can even stop hexproof dudes (unless they also have pro: white). Children of Korlis: Good as a one-of as it pretty much makes alfa-strikes and burn's big turns useless. Also good against some forms of combo. Zealot il-Vec: A reusable weenie-killer, good in the main as a one-of.
Non-rebel Creatures Ninja of the Deep Hours and Kor Skyfisher: These both serve the purpose of returning Aven Riftwatcher to your hand before it expires. The ninja is better at this specific job, but the skyfisher can bounce other interesting things too (Glimmerpost and Prophetic Prism). I think a 2/2 split is best until testing reveals otherwise. At 2 mana effective casting cost, both are perfectly acceptable and easy to squeeze in mid game while keeping mana open.
Other Spells Prohibit: An excellent counter for the deck - good early with easy color requirements and good later since you're keeping 4 open anyway to get more Riftwatchers. Rewind: A fantastic counter once you get 2UU - counter a spell and STILL search end of turn. Brainstorm: Excellent with all the shuffling going on. Puts rebels in your hand back in your library so you can "play" them at instant speed instead, while drawing you fresh counters and removal. Journey to Nowhere: The tried and tested best removal. Sorcery speed is very acceptable at 2 CMC. Last Breath and Reprisal are other options at instant speed, should your meta favor them. Oona's Grace + Think Twice: Instant speed card draw is of course very good if there's room. Brainstorm and Skyfisher/Ninja should go a long way however. Conjurer's Bauble: A techy cantrip that gets that key rebel back to be searched out again. Probably better to just run more rebels though, if you're having problems finding stuff to search out.
Mana Base
I think an 8-post mana base is excellent for this deck. As mono white rebel post has already shown, few decks can take such advantage of all the colorless mana, every turn! 8-post means more space for the mana base, but this is compensated by most of your creatures being "army-in-a-can" type threats that just keeps it coming.
Many other ways to build this deck of course, but I think this captures the gist of it. Let me know what you think!
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Rebels are a very interesting tribe indeed. I spoke a bit about it in the online Pauper forums and I think what I said there still stands true: all the good rebels are at 3cmc. Therefore the 2-mana rebel-searchers are the ones you want to have (Ramosian, Falcon, etc). I personally prefer the extra toughness of Lieutenant and the flying of the Falcon, so I chose them to hold down the rebel base. Contrary to what some might think, having multiple copies of rebels in order to draw them naturally isn't all bad, as it can speed up our board presence in the early game. Here is the rebel base I suggested:
Of course, a few singletons of other rebels could be useful, but I really think this is a good place to start. Nightwing Glider is an excellent card to have even without the pro-black (which is very good in the online meta anyways). I skip over the Ramosian Seargent completely in favour of more two-drop rebels, as I think she's just wasted space, since she'll only basically fetch other fetching rebels, who are the ones actually getting the good cards.
Is prophetic Prism really necessary in this deck? The rebel ability uses colourless mana anyways, so I can't see this as being a big issue.
I like the tech with Rewind giving you tons of mana with Cloudposts. I think Condescend would be an excellent addition as well.
Sorry if this is a dumb question - I'm just getting back into the game. But isn't Cloudpost banned in Pauper?
As for the deck, I like it. What do you think about Samite Censer-Bearer to stop things like Electrickery? It's not completely devastating, but it still kills half the creatures in your deck. What about any changeling cards?
@Idrareb: Auras target upon casting, but not upon resolution. Since you're not casting the aura but putting it into play, there's never a need to target. Protection still explictly prevents the creature being enchanted continously, so in that case the aura would fall off when state based actions are checked (if I'm not misinformed) anyway.
@GameThree: Cloudpost is banned on MTGO, not in paper pauper. Some chose to mirror MTGO and use its banlist and avoid unavailable commons like Hymn to Tourach. Others are more liberal. Personally, I build cheap decks for kitchen table fun using "pauper" as a creative build (and cost) restriction, but I play against other pauper and non-pauper decks. Our group uses the legacy banlist for almost everything. Samite Censer-Bearer is actually a great suggestion, though probably more for the SB. Unfortunately, there are no interesting common changelings at 3 CMC or below.
@Obermeir: Ha, I knew you'd probably tried something like this already! I'm not sure if you're underestimating Mrs. Sergeant or if I'm overestimating her, but here's my thinking: I've played a lot with Lin Sivvi in EDH and unless you're dying like RIGHT NOW, I think it's always best to get another searcher with your first activation. If you drop Scout/Lieutentant/Falcon and immediately go for a Riftwatcher, and then they kill your searcher, then you've just spent 3 mana extra tutoring for Riftwatcher (2+4-3) and that's that. Sergeant fetches one turn earlier, so you're not actually losing tempo, but you gain board development. Now they can kill your "good" searcher, because you'll just search up another one for 3 mana. Since you want 2 searchers most of the time, it makes sense to pay 1 less for both playing and searching, and you get to develop a turn earlier. Even if they kill the sergeant before you can untap, you've made them play removal on a 1 mana creature which is still better!
I think I'd prefer 1 BiS main and 1 SB. I think of the gliders more as a SB card as I'd much rather have a 2/3 flyer with life gain if the protection didn't matter. Even Avian Changeling is better then. But my meta is very different from the on-line one.
With 22 lands and 4 Prism, I'm currently running 13 blue and 13 white sources. I'll still need those to play removal and counters, eventually needing double blue for Rewind as well, so I don't think I can go lower despite the ability to pour excess colorless into rebel searching. I'd need to replace the prisms with at least 3 lands and maybe 1 spell, so aren't the Prisms better then?
I don't think Condescend competes with Rewind, but it does compete with Prohibit. Do you think a 2/2 split would be more ideal rather than 4 Prohibit?
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Haha, yeah I've dabbled with Rebels quite a bit in my very early days of Pauper! It's a really good tribe, but they were often just a few turns too slow to get going compared to other decks. Keep in mind however, that was back when everyone and their grandmother was playing Infect or Delver.
I think I understand where you're going with Sergeant. I do often search up a second searcher, but keep in mind that even if they do destroy a 2-drop after you activate it, they still suffer card disadvantage. Plus running 8 2 mana searchers makes it likely I'll drop a second one on turn 3 as well. There is only one scenario where the opponent doesn't lose out, and that's if they kill the Rebel the turn you play it (and in that case, it doesn't matter which rebel-searcher it was). The value of searching up the critical 3-mana rebels is the reason I overload on the 2-mana searchers. The more you have of them, the greater chance you'll reap the rewards. Of course, if you think it's better to curve out with the 1-drop, that's okay too, I just see Sergeant as having a much smaller impact on the game than the others. I want every card to be important, basically.
I found pro-black to be important enough to require main-deck space, but you're right, that's a meta call. At the very worst, he's still a 2-power flier.
For Bound in Silence, I found that I wanted it exactly twice per game versus most decks, incidentally enough. I know it sounds kind of silly, but that's really what it came down to: how many creatures I wanted to pacify. I would play one early on on a Mulldrifter to clear the way, than need a second one later for a Crusher, for example.
I think I used Mana Leak and Condescend as my two main counters, and complemented with Negate and Exclude. I definitely like Rewind, though. I would actually try a 3:1 split of Prohibit and Condescend. You really don't want to see Condescends too early.
In the end, our decks are really similar, I had no prisms and no graces, but more lands and countermagic, I think. I'll see if I can dig up my old list.
With 2x BiS, were you running any other removal also or just relying on counters? I think 4 Journey + 1 searchable BiS should be plenty along with 7 counters and lots of draw/cantrip, but maybe 2 main is better.
As for the Sergeant, I just think there's a reason it has always been a 4-of in most formats where Rebels have placed well at some time. If given the option of the following scenarios, which would you prefer:
1) t1-2 Sergeant and other plays, t3 fetch a 3CMC searcher EOT for 3 mana unless you had to counter, t4 search for the good 3 CMC rebels with 2 searchers on the board.
2) t1-3 3CMC searcher and other plays (though you probably have to decide before passing if you're gonna counter or not), t4 search for the good 3 CMC rebels with 1 searcher on the board.
Hmm, I think maybe Avian Changeling might still a good MD placeholder for an open meta, easy to swap for a glider, samite, Children of Korlis or extra BiS post board. Having a flyer that doesn't self-destruct could be useful. It's either that or one each of thermal/nightwing in the main for me. I quess Quicksand and Viridian Longbow effects are the only situations where the Changeling is better. The chance that a random deck in my meta will have either red or black in it is pretty big afterall and then a single glider can be the game.
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While we are talking about which are the best rebels to play, i'd like to praise the most under-appreciated one: Zealot il-Vec.
Zealot is one of those cards that looks so mediocre that you won't give it a second thought and would never realize how damn good it is until you find yourself fetching it every single game. The Zealot provides board control against lots of decks, puts a clock on stale boards, can be fetched to surprise-block a kil Fiend pumped with Shadow Rift (yeah, some people do use it over Artful Dodge sometimes).And if you have 2 of them, they can kill almost all of the MBC and MUC creatures (...barring those pesky 4 toughness bastards...).
I am a bit sceptic about Rebels power. I've heard about them, I've seem them sometimes, but don't a bunch of 1/1's and 2/2's lack a bit of punch? My main problem is that without any punchy win condition we might struggle against decks with bigger threats, and we're vulnerable to pauper's board sweepers like Electrickery and Shrivel or Dry Spell. I admit I have no experience piloting Rebels though, so I might be plain wrong.
Could we also use a black splash? There are some rebels like Blightspeaker and Rathi Trapper that could break a stalemate, and Deepcavern Imp provides another flier with haste to boot and a discard outlet if we want to do some shenanigans with the black splash.
@Broco: You're definetely right about all those things, a second in the board feels mandatory!
@Zephyr: I share your concerns, and more than one time have I considered squeezing in Bonesplitters or Trinket Mages getting the same and Expedition Map for more posts. To put it bluntly though, you're basically playing a deck of infinite Aven Riftwatchers. You have like 10 effective copies of them, can always have one active on the board, and return them to your hand with extra profit as they are about to expire. Then you send them back to the library with Brainstorm and search them out again. Skyfisher/Ninja and Gliders etc. help with the beatdown too. Constantly having 1-2 2-power flyers on the board isn't much different from an endless stream of 1/1s with Bonesplitters.
We don't actually have to splash black to run black rebels (we can get them back in the library with Brainstorm and search them out for colorless mana into play). But the available ones aren't very interesting. Blightspeaker offers little except hassle over Zealot il-Vec combined with the white searchers, Rathi Trapper is basically a frail Bound in Silence with a black upkeep cost, and Deepcavern Imp requires building around for what is essentially an Avian Changeling (with instant speed fetching, all rebels have pseudo-haste anyway).
I think I have most of what I need to update the maindeck and a good bit into the sideboard too, but I still ponder Trinket Mage. Could it be better than Prophetic Prism? It too can fix mana (artifact lands and Expedition Map for MOAR posts) and add card advantage. It's also another beater, brings sideboarding opportunities and let's you add a singleton Bonesplitter just as in Zephyr's Caw Blade. Downside is 3 CMC at sorcery speed, but either this isn't a problem turn 3 or you can simply wait until the post engine brings you enough mana.
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I completely understand the difference between the two scenarios, and the 1-mana searcher is definitely in a better light there. What I'm trying to get across is that the 2-mana searchers have a purpose other than searching up other searchers, making them more versatile and more impactful throughout the game. Plus, with all the tapped lands, it's a very common thing to spend your first turn playing a Cloudpost.
It had crazy game versus Stompy decks, and did very well versus other 8post decks as well. They just can't handle threat-dumping and massive removal and countermagic. I struggled versus infect and Affinity, as they were either faster or did poison damage, which any number of Riftwatchers can't fix. It also struggles versus other removal-heavy decks. MBC is actually not bad if I manage to get Nightwing Glider out and end the game with him. I think that the chanceries should be Guildgates, now, though.
I'm big on the removal and countermagic, as you can see. lol
After testing lowered cost of sb options. because deck loses to very fast aggro like Kiln, bad land draws, and mass removal. Added 1 Errant Doomsayers, as it's tutorable from every Rebel, put Bearers in vs lots of fast aggro. Beat Delve decks, 6 removal including 3 tutorable is enough for them, and we rebulid faster from Crypt Rats, than they do.
Are Errant doomsayers giving you good results vs aggro? Looks like they are not able to stop big creatures such as slivers and stompy can just pump the guy in response.
I have never tried Blade of the sixth path before because it looked worse than any of the gliders, but might give it a try.
What are children of korlis there for? Right now I am running a single Samite censer-bearer and so far it has been awsome. Tron players just when I fetch them in response to rolling thunder. Also it protects our rebels from electrickery and Krark-Clan Shaman. I also use prismatic strands both main and side, it is just very useful against crypt rats but now that I am checking the meta percentages it seems that mono black is not being played as much as it was when I last played.
It is great to see that someone else is trying to put the deck together. I'll give the deck another go and post the results I get. This is the list I have (a bit outdated, last played it during the summer)
After some testing, Errant doomsayers and Blade of the sixth pride have not impressed me much. They don't solve any of the problems I had before. I find the TRON version improves significantly vs red decks and some control decks, even though it restricts sideboard cards with WW in the cost. Delver has always been a good matchup, even in mono white so I wouldn't be worried about it.
I am going to list the most problematic cards for this deck either in its mono white version or the tron one. so we can think of cards that can fit in the deck and solve the problems these cards cause:
- Sidewinder sliver: There is nothing rebels can do against this guy acccompanied with the rest of the team. Bound in silence does nothing, same as doomsayers or saltfield recluse.Journey to nowhere is OK against them, but they just run oblivion rings and have way too much redundancy.
- Pestilence and its deck: Run oblivion ring main or just scoop game 1 and hope for the sideboard cards.
- Cuombajj witches and shrivel, both in the mono-black control matchup. It is a hard matchup, but not impossible to win G1. Game two is way more difficult, even with nightwind gliders.
- Combo decks in general: Elves, familiar and reality acid specially.
I have gone through lots of cards (rebels and non rebels) and still don't know what to do against these decks.
However, I found a WB version in mtggoldfish that plays with grim harvest as an engine to exploit the graveyard. This comes specially handy when dealing with red or black decks allowing us to uselightbringer and lawbringer multiple times.
Black gives discard spells, such as castigate and duress to deal with the combo decks, and also true removal to the deck to deal with aggresive strategies, but I still don't know if adding black would make other matchups worse.
I also like moonglove changeling vs some aggro decks. Overall, I think it's worth a try.
Hello everyone! I was delighted to find this thread as I have found some success with a delightful rebels list below, shockingly totally eschewing the blue.
The deck is subject to constant daily testing and revisions, and this is not at all the final draft, but I have really been enjoying it. Yes, of course there is the issue that rebels are small... the answer, three bonesplitters and two sylvok lifestaffs. You take some of your many smaller evasive creatures and you can go usually to a pretty reasonably fast victory using these equipments. pestilence decks are hard game one, but this deck puts priority on being able to tutor out nightwind glider to survive the dastardly enchantment. Of course, those sorts of decks play 4 maindeck edict effects usually, but sometimes a creature played every turn with a sylvok lifestaff involved can be very useful, Idyllic Grange is one of the best cards in the deck, it has edged out pretty much every other specialty land with how strong it is on any flier.
One thing I really like about the bonesplitter and sylvok lifestaff packages are that they are very helpful for utilizing mana on some of the 'dead' turns of the deck, turns 3, 5, and 7 respectively.
Finally, the lands. The deck wants more lands far more than it wants to miss them.
Oh, and zealot il-vec. Not sure about the card, but I should reconsider it. Even if it is not pinging stuff down it is still a very good carrier of bonesplitter.
I am considering removing doomed traveler from the sb, it would really free up space. But it is good against those few decks that still play spot removal and also it is a not to fiery cannonade
One cool thing about rebels is that we crush bogles, unless they have the t3 nuts. Haha, I suppose we could also draw 4 bound in silences.
oblivion ring is a sb option, but this deck has so much maindeck removal anyway, I think disenchant gives us what we need whilst also being instant speed, to bluff or perhaps interchange with a tutor activation.
fiery cannonade is a nightmare, but is easily beatable. I would give so much for a 2 mana 1/3 or something that was a rebel, but that might not be happening. I have considered the avian changeling completely to combat cannonade, but it is just not worth it when we have thermal glider. Nobody ever expects the tutor for thermal glider, but when bonesplitter comes to play they will wish they did.
The deck idea is rather simple: Keep mana open for counters with ease thanks to a mechanic that lets you play creatures at instant speed, while simultaneously creating card advantage and dishing out uncounterable threats and utility. So what cards should be run?
Rebel Creatures
Ramosian Sergeant: The cheapest and best of the rebel searchers. A one mana 1/1 with a card advantage ability is really quite something. Downside is he'll mostly get other fetchers that in turn can fetch bigger things, but that's usually the most prudent strategy anyway. 4-of!
Amrou Scout, Defiant Falcon, Ramosian Lieutenant: Almost the same card as you're mostly interested in the abilty to bring 3 CMC rebels onto the field. Each has slightly different pro:s and con:s - the lieutentant survives pings and blocks 1/Xs without dying, Amrou Scout can combat trick kill an X/2 off a Ramosian Sergeant and the falcon of course flies. A split seems in order.
Aven Riftwatcher: Your bread and butter creature to search out, trades well and is good both on the attack an on the defense. 3 is OK as you'd rather search than hard cast them, and will have plenty anyways.
Bound in Silence: Instant speed, searchable removal is powerful. When searched out with a rebel, it doesn't actually target so it can even stop hexproof dudes (unless they also have pro: white).
Children of Korlis: Good as a one-of as it pretty much makes alfa-strikes and burn's big turns useless. Also good against some forms of combo.
Zealot il-Vec: A reusable weenie-killer, good in the main as a one-of.
Sideboard rebels: Thermal Glider, Nightwind Glider, moar Children/Zealot/BiS if there's room.
Non-rebel Creatures
Ninja of the Deep Hours and Kor Skyfisher: These both serve the purpose of returning Aven Riftwatcher to your hand before it expires. The ninja is better at this specific job, but the skyfisher can bounce other interesting things too (Glimmerpost and Prophetic Prism). I think a 2/2 split is best until testing reveals otherwise. At 2 mana effective casting cost, both are perfectly acceptable and easy to squeeze in mid game while keeping mana open.
Other Spells
Prohibit: An excellent counter for the deck - good early with easy color requirements and good later since you're keeping 4 open anyway to get more Riftwatchers.
Rewind: A fantastic counter once you get 2UU - counter a spell and STILL search end of turn.
Brainstorm: Excellent with all the shuffling going on. Puts rebels in your hand back in your library so you can "play" them at instant speed instead, while drawing you fresh counters and removal.
Journey to Nowhere: The tried and tested best removal. Sorcery speed is very acceptable at 2 CMC. Last Breath and Reprisal are other options at instant speed, should your meta favor them.
Oona's Grace + Think Twice: Instant speed card draw is of course very good if there's room. Brainstorm and Skyfisher/Ninja should go a long way however.
Conjurer's Bauble: A techy cantrip that gets that key rebel back to be searched out again. Probably better to just run more rebels though, if you're having problems finding stuff to search out.
Mana Base
I think an 8-post mana base is excellent for this deck. As mono white rebel post has already shown, few decks can take such advantage of all the colorless mana, every turn! 8-post means more space for the mana base, but this is compensated by most of your creatures being "army-in-a-can" type threats that just keeps it coming.
Here's a tentative suggestion for a main deck
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Azorius Chancery
5 Island
5 Plains
ARTIFACTS (4)
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Journey to Nowhere
1 Bound in Silence
CREATURES (16)
4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Amrou Scout
1 Defiant Falcon
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
3 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Children of Korlis
1 Zealot il-Vec
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Kor Skyfisher
4 Brainstorm
4 Prohibit
3 Rewind
2 Oona's Grace
Many other ways to build this deck of course, but I think this captures the gist of it. Let me know what you think!
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4 Defiant Falcon
4 Aven Riftwatcher
2 Bound in Silence
2 Nightwind Glider
1 Zealot il-Vec
Of course, a few singletons of other rebels could be useful, but I really think this is a good place to start. Nightwing Glider is an excellent card to have even without the pro-black (which is very good in the online meta anyways). I skip over the Ramosian Seargent completely in favour of more two-drop rebels, as I think she's just wasted space, since she'll only basically fetch other fetching rebels, who are the ones actually getting the good cards.
Is prophetic Prism really necessary in this deck? The rebel ability uses colourless mana anyways, so I can't see this as being a big issue.
I like the tech with Rewind giving you tons of mana with Cloudposts. I think Condescend would be an excellent addition as well.
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As for the deck, I like it. What do you think about Samite Censer-Bearer to stop things like Electrickery? It's not completely devastating, but it still kills half the creatures in your deck. What about any changeling cards?
@GameThree: Cloudpost is banned on MTGO, not in paper pauper. Some chose to mirror MTGO and use its banlist and avoid unavailable commons like Hymn to Tourach. Others are more liberal. Personally, I build cheap decks for kitchen table fun using "pauper" as a creative build (and cost) restriction, but I play against other pauper and non-pauper decks. Our group uses the legacy banlist for almost everything. Samite Censer-Bearer is actually a great suggestion, though probably more for the SB. Unfortunately, there are no interesting common changelings at 3 CMC or below.
@Obermeir: Ha, I knew you'd probably tried something like this already! I'm not sure if you're underestimating Mrs. Sergeant or if I'm overestimating her, but here's my thinking: I've played a lot with Lin Sivvi in EDH and unless you're dying like RIGHT NOW, I think it's always best to get another searcher with your first activation. If you drop Scout/Lieutentant/Falcon and immediately go for a Riftwatcher, and then they kill your searcher, then you've just spent 3 mana extra tutoring for Riftwatcher (2+4-3) and that's that. Sergeant fetches one turn earlier, so you're not actually losing tempo, but you gain board development. Now they can kill your "good" searcher, because you'll just search up another one for 3 mana. Since you want 2 searchers most of the time, it makes sense to pay 1 less for both playing and searching, and you get to develop a turn earlier. Even if they kill the sergeant before you can untap, you've made them play removal on a 1 mana creature which is still better!
I think I'd prefer 1 BiS main and 1 SB. I think of the gliders more as a SB card as I'd much rather have a 2/3 flyer with life gain if the protection didn't matter. Even Avian Changeling is better then. But my meta is very different from the on-line one.
With 22 lands and 4 Prism, I'm currently running 13 blue and 13 white sources. I'll still need those to play removal and counters, eventually needing double blue for Rewind as well, so I don't think I can go lower despite the ability to pour excess colorless into rebel searching. I'd need to replace the prisms with at least 3 lands and maybe 1 spell, so aren't the Prisms better then?
I don't think Condescend competes with Rewind, but it does compete with Prohibit. Do you think a 2/2 split would be more ideal rather than 4 Prohibit?
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I think I understand where you're going with Sergeant. I do often search up a second searcher, but keep in mind that even if they do destroy a 2-drop after you activate it, they still suffer card disadvantage. Plus running 8 2 mana searchers makes it likely I'll drop a second one on turn 3 as well. There is only one scenario where the opponent doesn't lose out, and that's if they kill the Rebel the turn you play it (and in that case, it doesn't matter which rebel-searcher it was). The value of searching up the critical 3-mana rebels is the reason I overload on the 2-mana searchers. The more you have of them, the greater chance you'll reap the rewards. Of course, if you think it's better to curve out with the 1-drop, that's okay too, I just see Sergeant as having a much smaller impact on the game than the others. I want every card to be important, basically.
I found pro-black to be important enough to require main-deck space, but you're right, that's a meta call. At the very worst, he's still a 2-power flier.
For Bound in Silence, I found that I wanted it exactly twice per game versus most decks, incidentally enough. I know it sounds kind of silly, but that's really what it came down to: how many creatures I wanted to pacify. I would play one early on on a Mulldrifter to clear the way, than need a second one later for a Crusher, for example.
I think I used Mana Leak and Condescend as my two main counters, and complemented with Negate and Exclude. I definitely like Rewind, though. I would actually try a 3:1 split of Prohibit and Condescend. You really don't want to see Condescends too early.
In the end, our decks are really similar, I had no prisms and no graces, but more lands and countermagic, I think. I'll see if I can dig up my old list.
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GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
With 2x BiS, were you running any other removal also or just relying on counters? I think 4 Journey + 1 searchable BiS should be plenty along with 7 counters and lots of draw/cantrip, but maybe 2 main is better.
As for the Sergeant, I just think there's a reason it has always been a 4-of in most formats where Rebels have placed well at some time. If given the option of the following scenarios, which would you prefer:
1) t1-2 Sergeant and other plays, t3 fetch a 3CMC searcher EOT for 3 mana unless you had to counter, t4 search for the good 3 CMC rebels with 2 searchers on the board.
2) t1-3 3CMC searcher and other plays (though you probably have to decide before passing if you're gonna counter or not), t4 search for the good 3 CMC rebels with 1 searcher on the board.
Hmm, I think maybe Avian Changeling might still a good MD placeholder for an open meta, easy to swap for a glider, samite, Children of Korlis or extra BiS post board. Having a flyer that doesn't self-destruct could be useful. It's either that or one each of thermal/nightwing in the main for me. I quess Quicksand and Viridian Longbow effects are the only situations where the Changeling is better. The chance that a random deck in my meta will have either red or black in it is pretty big afterall and then a single glider can be the game.
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Zealot is one of those cards that looks so mediocre that you won't give it a second thought and would never realize how damn good it is until you find yourself fetching it every single game. The Zealot provides board control against lots of decks, puts a clock on stale boards, can be fetched to surprise-block a kil Fiend pumped with Shadow Rift (yeah, some people do use it over Artful Dodge sometimes).And if you have 2 of them, they can kill almost all of the MBC and MUC creatures (...barring those pesky 4 toughness bastards...).
I'd play a second one in the SB in a heartbeat.
Could we also use a black splash? There are some rebels like Blightspeaker and Rathi Trapper that could break a stalemate, and Deepcavern Imp provides another flier with haste to boot and a discard outlet if we want to do some shenanigans with the black splash.
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@Zephyr: I share your concerns, and more than one time have I considered squeezing in Bonesplitters or Trinket Mages getting the same and Expedition Map for more posts. To put it bluntly though, you're basically playing a deck of infinite Aven Riftwatchers. You have like 10 effective copies of them, can always have one active on the board, and return them to your hand with extra profit as they are about to expire. Then you send them back to the library with Brainstorm and search them out again. Skyfisher/Ninja and Gliders etc. help with the beatdown too. Constantly having 1-2 2-power flyers on the board isn't much different from an endless stream of 1/1s with Bonesplitters.
We don't actually have to splash black to run black rebels (we can get them back in the library with Brainstorm and search them out for colorless mana into play). But the available ones aren't very interesting. Blightspeaker offers little except hassle over Zealot il-Vec combined with the white searchers, Rathi Trapper is basically a frail Bound in Silence with a black upkeep cost, and Deepcavern Imp requires building around for what is essentially an Avian Changeling (with instant speed fetching, all rebels have pseudo-haste anyway).
I think I have most of what I need to update the maindeck and a good bit into the sideboard too, but I still ponder Trinket Mage. Could it be better than Prophetic Prism? It too can fix mana (artifact lands and Expedition Map for MOAR posts) and add card advantage. It's also another beater, brings sideboarding opportunities and let's you add a singleton Bonesplitter just as in Zephyr's Caw Blade. Downside is 3 CMC at sorcery speed, but either this isn't a problem turn 3 or you can simply wait until the post engine brings you enough mana.
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I completely understand the difference between the two scenarios, and the 1-mana searcher is definitely in a better light there. What I'm trying to get across is that the 2-mana searchers have a purpose other than searching up other searchers, making them more versatile and more impactful throughout the game. Plus, with all the tapped lands, it's a very common thing to spend your first turn playing a Cloudpost.
Leave the Black splash for Modern Pauper, I say!
Here's my list!
4 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Defiant Falcon
4 Aven Riftwatcher
2 Nightwind Glider
1 Zealot il-Vec
Counter/Removal (15)
2 Bound in Silence
3 Journey to Nowhere
4 Condescend
3 Mana Leak
2 Exclude
1 Negate
4 Brainstorm
Other (2)
2 Azorius Signet
Lands (24)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
6 Island
6 Plains
4 Azorius Chancery
It had crazy game versus Stompy decks, and did very well versus other 8post decks as well. They just can't handle threat-dumping and massive removal and countermagic. I struggled versus infect and Affinity, as they were either faster or did poison damage, which any number of Riftwatchers can't fix. It also struggles versus other removal-heavy decks. MBC is actually not bad if I manage to get Nightwing Glider out and end the game with him. I think that the chanceries should be Guildgates, now, though.
I'm big on the removal and countermagic, as you can see. lol
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Are Errant doomsayers giving you good results vs aggro? Looks like they are not able to stop big creatures such as slivers and stompy can just pump the guy in response.
I have never tried Blade of the sixth path before because it looked worse than any of the gliders, but might give it a try.
What are children of korlis there for? Right now I am running a single Samite censer-bearer and so far it has been awsome. Tron players just when I fetch them in response to rolling thunder. Also it protects our rebels from electrickery and Krark-Clan Shaman. I also use prismatic strands both main and side, it is just very useful against crypt rats but now that I am checking the meta percentages it seems that mono black is not being played as much as it was when I last played.
It is great to see that someone else is trying to put the deck together. I'll give the deck another go and post the results I get. This is the list I have (a bit outdated, last played it during the summer)
4x Urza's mine
4x Urza's power plant
4x Urza's tower
11x Plains
Creatures
1x Samite censer-bearer
4x Ramosian lieutenant
4x Amrou Scout
4x Defiant falcon
4x Aven riftwatcher
1x Nightwind glider
1x Thermal glider
3x Zealot il-vec
2x Ulamo's crusher
4x Expedition map
3x Bound in silence
4x Oblivion ring
2x Prismatic strands
2x Disenchant
3x Standard bearer
3x Sunlance
3x Circle of protection: red
1x Prismatic strands
1x Bound in silence
1x Ulamog's crusher
I am going to list the most problematic cards for this deck either in its mono white version or the tron one. so we can think of cards that can fit in the deck and solve the problems these cards cause:
- Sidewinder sliver: There is nothing rebels can do against this guy acccompanied with the rest of the team. Bound in silence does nothing, same as doomsayers or saltfield recluse.Journey to nowhere is OK against them, but they just run oblivion rings and have way too much redundancy.
- Pestilence and its deck: Run oblivion ring main or just scoop game 1 and hope for the sideboard cards.
- Cuombajj witches and shrivel, both in the mono-black control matchup. It is a hard matchup, but not impossible to win G1. Game two is way more difficult, even with nightwind gliders.
- Combo decks in general: Elves, familiar and reality acid specially.
I have gone through lots of cards (rebels and non rebels) and still don't know what to do against these decks.
However, I found a WB version in mtggoldfish that plays with grim harvest as an engine to exploit the graveyard. This comes specially handy when dealing with red or black decks allowing us to uselightbringer and lawbringer multiple times.
Black gives discard spells, such as castigate and duress to deal with the combo decks, and also true removal to the deck to deal with aggresive strategies, but I still don't know if adding black would make other matchups worse.
I also like moonglove changeling vs some aggro decks. Overall, I think it's worth a try.
EDIT: Link to the list http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/pauper-wb-18977#online
3 Bonesplitter
2 Sylvok Lifestaff
20 Plains
4 Idyllic Grange
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Bound in Silence
2 Prismatic Strands
1 Thermal Glider
2 Children of Korlis
4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Nightwind Glider
4 Defiant Falcon
3 Aven Riftwatcher
4 Amrou Scout
1 Thermal Glider
3 Disenchant
1 Nightwind Glider
3 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Sunlance
3 Doomed Traveler
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Aven Riftwatcher
The deck is subject to constant daily testing and revisions, and this is not at all the final draft, but I have really been enjoying it. Yes, of course there is the issue that rebels are small... the answer, three bonesplitters and two sylvok lifestaffs. You take some of your many smaller evasive creatures and you can go usually to a pretty reasonably fast victory using these equipments. pestilence decks are hard game one, but this deck puts priority on being able to tutor out nightwind glider to survive the dastardly enchantment. Of course, those sorts of decks play 4 maindeck edict effects usually, but sometimes a creature played every turn with a sylvok lifestaff involved can be very useful, Idyllic Grange is one of the best cards in the deck, it has edged out pretty much every other specialty land with how strong it is on any flier.
One thing I really like about the bonesplitter and sylvok lifestaff packages are that they are very helpful for utilizing mana on some of the 'dead' turns of the deck, turns 3, 5, and 7 respectively.
Finally, the lands. The deck wants more lands far more than it wants to miss them.
Oh, and zealot il-vec. Not sure about the card, but I should reconsider it. Even if it is not pinging stuff down it is still a very good carrier of bonesplitter.
edit:post sb triple disenchant is very good against pestilence and its friends pristine talisman and bonder's ornament.
I am considering removing doomed traveler from the sb, it would really free up space. But it is good against those few decks that still play spot removal and also it is a not to fiery cannonade
oblivion ring is a sb option, but this deck has so much maindeck removal anyway, I think disenchant gives us what we need whilst also being instant speed, to bluff or perhaps interchange with a tutor activation.
fiery cannonade is a nightmare, but is easily beatable. I would give so much for a 2 mana 1/3 or something that was a rebel, but that might not be happening. I have considered the avian changeling completely to combat cannonade, but it is just not worth it when we have thermal glider. Nobody ever expects the tutor for thermal glider, but when bonesplitter comes to play they will wish they did.
against those decks really leaning on cannonade consider universal automaton. This can be tutored out by ramosian lieutenant
Maindeck sunlance is important. arbor elf is highly played. Of course, we want our fliers uncontested, so delver of secrets needs to die as well.