Very interesting. I've found myself having terrible matchups against Burn. Maybe a few tweaks on your part have improved the matchup? Would you be so kind as to post a deck list? I'm very curious! Thank you for providing a bit of the matchup break down as you see it, in any case!
Oh definitely, having CoP: Red, Muddle the Mixture and a couple other counters will definitely put the match in your favour!
Against burn
Basically try to use a Nourish early as possible.... Don't spend counters on Keldon marauders (but prevent it's combat damage). Use counter only to protect the Jace Erasure (probably with one or more Quiet Disrepair on it) or on anything that makes you go below 7 life (the safe margin). Always keep a land on your hand (opponent will think that's a counterspell and will hold burns to use many at once). He will also avoid risks.
Never, NEVER play spells to make the opponent buy cards... (except Arcane Denial). Words of Wisdom and Vision Skeins sided out! Side in life gain and Counters
Be careful with any early Molten Rain. Keep it in mind when planning the land drop. On builds with many Terramorphic, keep it to play later.
Once you play Erasures with Quiet Disrepair and play 2 Nourish, the game is finished. He will be on topdeck mode after a while... Keep land opened to counter the issues, avoiding to do more than 1 thing each turn.
=================================
I'll try the white splash not to fight burn, but to test if it's a more reliable list. I may return to UG after 2 or 3 champs... let's see. I'm afraid to use too many "enter tapped" lands, but may help the brainstorm (which to me makes A LOT of difference from Ponder [2 erasures=6, 3 erasures=9]) and more solid mana base.
About Brainstorm... I won 2 games almost lost... These two was almost the same thing: I started my turn without counters (holding a land), 2 erasures, and unable to do anything to win (opponent with ~20 cards on library)... then I did a "topdeck" on brainstorm... played it, and get another brainstorm, played and ended with a vision skeins to play. Not sure if without them I would won it (3 draw for 1 mana, enabling the use of other spells on the same turn and do the "miracle")
Fascinating! Our decks are almost identical, yet I struggle to win versus the Burn deck. I'm obviously playing it wrong, if you claim to be having more success with it. I'm pretty happy to see this!
I'm assuming that for your sideboard, you go something like: -4 Words, -4 Skeins, -2 Spore Cloud, -2 Undergrowth, -1 Fog, +2 Arcane Denial, +3 Counterspell, +1 Muddle, +4 Nourish, +3 Quiet Disrepair.
Here's my current deck list, which I've been very satisfied with for the past several months:
I'm perfectly happy with playing Ponder. Even if I don't get the extra 2 cards milled, the built-in shuffling effect more than makes up for it, in my opinion. It keeps me from using fetchlands (which you sometimes have to hold back), and often gets me out of trouble. I almost always think to myself when looking at my top three cards if Brainstorm would have been better, and most of the time, I'm more than happy to shuffle the bad cards away and start fresh. With Brainstorm, I would have been stuck. Ponder has saved my butt countless times (I do play this deck a tremendous amount).
I'll try your way of sideboarding and playing and see how I do against Burn. Hopefully this will be a breakthrough for me; I need it!
I doubt you'll find the tri-colour list more reliable. The white fogs are usually a bit better (aside from Peace), but how much difference they actually make I can't really say, as I only played with them briefly before turning back to UG. It just felt more comfortable. Too many lands coming into play tapped can be very dangerous, as the deck is already slow as it is. Sometimes you're really hoping to get that land drop, and you get your EtBT land... ouch.
That being said, the general metagame has slowed down considerably. There isn't an Infect combo deck running around, and aggro strategies are good but never fast enough to beat TurboFog even on a slow hand. Perhaps an even slower list would be viable, incorporating all the best of each colour. Maybe it's too greedy, maybe not.
My white spells arrive this week (bought them online)... let's see what works better here. But I'm certain that I'll keep playing with FOG... The splash to white may help as a "surprise" factor on next tournament.
My friends "do not like" to be paired with me, as I'm know as "deck to tie the game"... "5 ending turn deck" etc... On legacy I use Counterbalance, having the same effect
I'd be curious to see your Bant list, once you put it together. And please do let us know how your tournaments go! The more cred this deck gets, the better!
I know how you feel. I'm usually the control player nowadays, so it's often not very fun to play against me (for people who aren't prepared to fight control, anyways).
I've added the Eye-Candy matchup in the matchups section. Check it out! It's a bit hard for them to win, but Flaring Pain is a real mess for us, as usual.
I'll also be revising the Burn matchup once I try new sideboarding methods. Lots of progress to be made!
This is a very interesting deck! Looking forward to try out my own build. I think it's one of the few pauper decks that can have game against the many mana-less dredge (legacy) decks I see in my "casual" (well, more like homebrew) meta - mainly because dredge and milling go hand in hand and it makes zombie tokens useless, and is resilient to discard.
Reading the primer, I see UGw builds discussed, but wouldn't UWg be better? White has the better fogs and sideboard options, so the only thing green offers is really Moment's Peace, and with 10-ish other fogs, you're not in a hurry to find a green source.
Another thing that confuses me a bit is that the Primer states you can be fairly liberal in the land count and include ETBT lands and ravnica bouncers, yet the discussion later suggests that mana is very tight? It seems to me you can often allow a few hits t1-2 and then basically just need to play a fog each turn, squeezing in mill, draw and counters when there's room and that's that.
Question 2: Are the white fog effects really better than the green ones? Preemptively taking away the combat step is strong, but with the damage prevention you can force infect players to waste pump spells for instance. White offers both of course.
If mana is fairly lax, wouldn't Stonehorn Dignitary be a rather decent fog-effect? It's another Moment of Silence with a big butt and possible reuse potential with blink/bounce shenanigans. This is assuming that mana cost isn't such a big obstacle. As a 3-of with a singleton Momentary Blink for fetching with Muddle perhaps? Perhaps it's too cute, but it would be like Moment's Peace #5 in a UWg build. A fog package of:
4 Moment of Silence
4 Moment's Peace
3 Dawn Charm
3 Stonehorn Dignitary
(1 Momentary Blink)
Thoughts on this and the questions above?
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A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe! "At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted." [Click here for the articles!]
Thank you! This deck has a lot of game versus non-Pauper decks, as it locks out all combat-based strategies (which is a lot of them). I beat down decks like Legacy Affinity and Goblins quite easily with it. Careful for dredge reanimating Iona, however, as that is definitely game over without a counter.
I believe there have been a few UWg builds listed in the thread, and I'm sure they work out quite well. Moment's Peace is unequivocally the best Fog available, and I have said before that it is the main reason Green is my favorite colour for fogs. I like to keep my mana-base simple as a rule, so dislike 3-colours, but it could definitely be done with something like 4 Terramorphic Expanses, 9 Islands, 1 Forest, 8 Plains or something. You need to have the right mana at the right time, though, which I've seen become problematic for other (more complex) decks.
Against some decks, you might not even need to start fogging until turn 4. You want to play tight with your mana is probably what I'm getting at. Making the best use of it every single turn is crucial to finding the next fog and milling them. It takes a bit of practice in sequencing to get it right. When it gets to the point where you have 8+ lands in play, the deck has a lot of freedom to do whatever it wants both on its own turn and on the opponents'.
White has access to more versatile Fogs and a wider range of playables, which makes it play better against some decks (at the expense of less redundancy with Peace or a more complex mana base). The only time combat-skipping spells are better than a normal fog is against Ulamog's Crusher (as far as I can think of right now), so it's a very minor difference.
Dignitary seems like it could be good, but I am a bit worried about the mana cost. It's not necessarily that the mana isn't lax for the deck, it's that if you draw a Dignitary in the early game when you need to be Fogging on turn 3 or drawing extra cards, he's very cumbersome. When you have 6 lands or so, he becomes much better. I would just be worried that he would be a dead draw in the early game.
I think I would cut a Dignitary and add another Dawn Charm. I think the Blinking is a bit too cute to be really effective. But is could be interesting, as you tend to go through the entire deck rather quickly, you could get the combo together every time, assuming you don't turn on your opponents' removal.
Hope this answered your questions! I really encourage you to pick up the deck if you feel like destroying aggro.
I've been testing against Burn in post board matches, and I must say I'm still not having much luck fighting through them. With the list I posted on this page, I side out -4 Words of Wisdom, -4 Vision Skeins, -4 Fog, -2 Spore Cloud, and side in everything except Lignify. I have a hard time assembling my Erasure + Disrepair combo (although when it works, it's impossible for the opponent to win). Nourish is quite good. They're just so much faster and can do so much damage with few cards.
I think one of the main cards that actually gives me quite a bit of trouble is Mogg Fanatic. I've taken out a bunch of my fogs, have a hard time countering him, and he always ends up doing 5-8 damage by himself. I dunno if anyone else has encountered this problem post-board like I have.
I actually thought of a solution to the problem I've been having of not assembling my combo fast enough. As there are only 4 targets for Quiet Disrepair in my deck, it's quite hard to do. It occurred to me then that there are ways of including artifacts that take up no deck-space whatsoever: Tree of Tales and Seat of the Synod. I'll be including these into my deck as of now and will continue testing. I could even potentially have the combo up by turn 2, which is incredible.
It certainly is a great reason to have access to CoP: Red.
I must say though that my strategy with the artifact lands is panning out. I'm winning a lot more often. Games are very slow, so testing is grueling. I'll be posting some more accurate results soon.
National Pauper Qualifiers? Wow
Can we see an updated list? Have you hammered out what you'll be bringing? A report would be absolutely fabulous!
EDIT: I'm wondering if Brindle Boar would be useful in my sideboard to replace Arcane Denial. He'd be great as a blocker. He would deal with the goblins as well as still gain me life. If they would choose to burn it, well I just saved 7 life for myself. Maybe I'm getting tunnel vision with Burn at this point.
Oh I see! Yes, it is much better than Safe Passage, in that respect! Good find!
I've tested 10 post-board games against Burn with artifact lands, and instead of going 2-8, I went 6-4. Massive improvement, but still some work to be done.
What do you think of Brindle Boar instead of Arcane Denial in the sideboard? I figure it's the second best life gain spell in green.
Seems good. I had this on my old BG tortured existence. Against burn I try to not use any card with "opponent draws too", including arcane denial. But this change only worth if your meta has many burn decks
A lot of good stuff so far! I like seeing discussion on the deck, especially about all the extra white options. It really adds a lot of variety for options so there isn't the one deck to run.
@hugo_prado: Your list isn't showing up. all I see is a broken jpeg symbol. Is anyone else not seeing it? Riot Control is a nice choice since it stops burn as well. It also has a slight edge over Respite since it gains life for creatures your opponent controls instead of just attacking creatures, so you gain life on guys they just cast. Although I', not sure if that reason is worth the extra mana.
I'm not sure if Coalition Honor Guard is a good choice. It's pretty high on the curve, but I definitely see why it would be good since it can survive most burn spells, so it takes 2 spells to kill. Have you actually tested with it? How has it worked out?
@Obermeir: Brindle Boar looks pretty good! You can block-sac him on Keldon Marauders or Kiln Fiend while negating some burn. He definitely should be tested. Arcane Denial is definitely something you need to board out against Burn since it gives the deck the Card Advantage it's missing.
I don't feel you're getting tunnel vision for Burn, especially since it's one of the only decks that works around your main deck strategy. If you have Burn in your meta, then you should definitely prep for it. It's already awesome that you've improved your results against it so well!
My list: (the previous was a "photo" of my deck - did not had time to write it properly)
Thinking in change 1 Circle of protection:red from 1 from black.
I don't use Coalition Honor Guard, as Circle of protection do the job. But it is an option.
You're deck looks good! I honestly feel CoP: Black is a bit useless. You're already able to fog out all their creatures but CoP can't actually stop Gray Merchant/Corrupt from draining your life. If Cuombajj Witches or Crypt Rats are your main reason for using CoP: Black then maybe Encrust can stop them or even the O-rings you already have. CoP: Red is a big killer of Burn so I feel running 4 really helps you in those matchups.
Thank you! I think it's wonderful that the deck has so many building opportunities. I'm also very happy that even years after building it originally, there are still new ways to improve the deck!
Hugo_Prado,
Thank you for posting your list! I think it looks fantastic; all the proportions look good. One of the things I think could probably change is the mana base. I think 8 Expanses is too many; cutting down to 6 or even 4 will probably help the deck. Remember, with the massive amount of card draw, the deck tends to find its land drops, therefore will be able to find your colours a lot of the time as well. I also think you're going to want more islands in proportion to your Plains and Forest. Personally, I always want more blue mana.
So I was looking through the Weatherlight set and came across a common I never saw before. It's something that I feel is at least a good Sideboard card for this deck and I haven't seen it mentioned yet.
This looks good against any deck that'll use a lot of X/1 guys since it can board wipe them and give you some time to find more Fogs if you're running low. It can also work around a Flaring Pain if that's something Goblins might use against you. It can cost a good amount of mana though, so maybe it isn't worth it. What do you guys think?
That's a very interesting card! Something you don't see very often. I personally have never heard of this card in particular!
For the playability, it might have some game. As you said, it would be more of a sideboard card than anything else. It would have excellent applications versus Delver, Goblins, WW, and a bit of Stompy. For most of these archetypes, however, no sideboarding is required, as the maindeck deals with creature/swarm decks very effectively already. It could be very good anti-Delver card, as it is a difficult match for us. Killing their faeries can go a long way to victory. At worst it's an expensive Fog.
I'll have to take a closer look at it sometime. Very interesting find!
EDIT: This leads me to think Fog Patch could have some playability against red decks running Flaring Pain. Any thoughts on that? Is it worth replacing a number of 1-mana fogs for this?
Oh definitely, having CoP: Red, Muddle the Mixture and a couple other counters will definitely put the match in your favour!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
4 Fog
2 Undergrowth
2 Respite
4 Moment's Peace
2 Spore Cloud
Draw (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Words of Wisdom
4 Vision Skeins
2 Compulsive Research
2 Oona's Grace
2 Arcane Denial
3 Muddle the Mixture
Mill (4)
4 Jace's Erasure
Lands (21)
8 Forest
10 Island
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Arcane Denial
1 Muddle the Mixture
3 Counterspell
4 Nourish
1 Curse of Chains
3 Quiet Disrepair
1 Feldon's Cane
Against burn
Basically try to use a Nourish early as possible.... Don't spend counters on Keldon marauders (but prevent it's combat damage). Use counter only to protect the Jace Erasure (probably with one or more Quiet Disrepair on it) or on anything that makes you go below 7 life (the safe margin). Always keep a land on your hand (opponent will think that's a counterspell and will hold burns to use many at once). He will also avoid risks.
Never, NEVER play spells to make the opponent buy cards... (except Arcane Denial). Words of Wisdom and Vision Skeins sided out! Side in life gain and Counters
Be careful with any early Molten Rain. Keep it in mind when planning the land drop. On builds with many Terramorphic, keep it to play later.
Once you play Erasures with Quiet Disrepair and play 2 Nourish, the game is finished. He will be on topdeck mode after a while... Keep land opened to counter the issues, avoiding to do more than 1 thing each turn.
=================================
I'll try the white splash not to fight burn, but to test if it's a more reliable list. I may return to UG after 2 or 3 champs... let's see. I'm afraid to use too many "enter tapped" lands, but may help the brainstorm (which to me makes A LOT of difference from Ponder [2 erasures=6, 3 erasures=9]) and more solid mana base.
About Brainstorm... I won 2 games almost lost... These two was almost the same thing: I started my turn without counters (holding a land), 2 erasures, and unable to do anything to win (opponent with ~20 cards on library)... then I did a "topdeck" on brainstorm... played it, and get another brainstorm, played and ended with a vision skeins to play. Not sure if without them I would won it (3 draw for 1 mana, enabling the use of other spells on the same turn and do the "miracle")
I'm assuming that for your sideboard, you go something like: -4 Words, -4 Skeins, -2 Spore Cloud, -2 Undergrowth, -1 Fog, +2 Arcane Denial, +3 Counterspell, +1 Muddle, +4 Nourish, +3 Quiet Disrepair.
Here's my current deck list, which I've been very satisfied with for the past several months:
4 Fog
2 Undergrowth
2 Respite
4 Moment's Peace
2 Spore Cloud
Draw (16)
4 Ponder
4 Words of Wisdom
4 Vision Skeins
2 Compulsive Research
2 Oona's Grace
4 Muddle the Mixture
2 Arcane Denial
Mill (4)
4 Jace's Erasure
Lands (20)
11 Island
9 Forest
4 Nourish
4 Quiet Disrepair
1 Lignify
2 Arcane Denial
4 Counterspell
I'm perfectly happy with playing Ponder. Even if I don't get the extra 2 cards milled, the built-in shuffling effect more than makes up for it, in my opinion. It keeps me from using fetchlands (which you sometimes have to hold back), and often gets me out of trouble. I almost always think to myself when looking at my top three cards if Brainstorm would have been better, and most of the time, I'm more than happy to shuffle the bad cards away and start fresh. With Brainstorm, I would have been stuck. Ponder has saved my butt countless times (I do play this deck a tremendous amount).
I'll try your way of sideboarding and playing and see how I do against Burn. Hopefully this will be a breakthrough for me; I need it!
I doubt you'll find the tri-colour list more reliable. The white fogs are usually a bit better (aside from Peace), but how much difference they actually make I can't really say, as I only played with them briefly before turning back to UG. It just felt more comfortable. Too many lands coming into play tapped can be very dangerous, as the deck is already slow as it is. Sometimes you're really hoping to get that land drop, and you get your EtBT land... ouch.
That being said, the general metagame has slowed down considerably. There isn't an Infect combo deck running around, and aggro strategies are good but never fast enough to beat TurboFog even on a slow hand. Perhaps an even slower list would be viable, incorporating all the best of each colour. Maybe it's too greedy, maybe not.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
My friends "do not like" to be paired with me, as I'm know as "deck to tie the game"... "5 ending turn deck" etc... On legacy I use Counterbalance, having the same effect
I know how you feel. I'm usually the control player nowadays, so it's often not very fun to play against me (for people who aren't prepared to fight control, anyways).
I've added the Eye-Candy matchup in the matchups section. Check it out! It's a bit hard for them to win, but Flaring Pain is a real mess for us, as usual.
I'll also be revising the Burn matchup once I try new sideboarding methods. Lots of progress to be made!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Reading the primer, I see UGw builds discussed, but wouldn't UWg be better? White has the better fogs and sideboard options, so the only thing green offers is really Moment's Peace, and with 10-ish other fogs, you're not in a hurry to find a green source.
Another thing that confuses me a bit is that the Primer states you can be fairly liberal in the land count and include ETBT lands and ravnica bouncers, yet the discussion later suggests that mana is very tight? It seems to me you can often allow a few hits t1-2 and then basically just need to play a fog each turn, squeezing in mill, draw and counters when there's room and that's that.
Question 2: Are the white fog effects really better than the green ones? Preemptively taking away the combat step is strong, but with the damage prevention you can force infect players to waste pump spells for instance. White offers both of course.
If mana is fairly lax, wouldn't Stonehorn Dignitary be a rather decent fog-effect? It's another Moment of Silence with a big butt and possible reuse potential with blink/bounce shenanigans. This is assuming that mana cost isn't such a big obstacle. As a 3-of with a singleton Momentary Blink for fetching with Muddle perhaps? Perhaps it's too cute, but it would be like Moment's Peace #5 in a UWg build. A fog package of:
4 Moment of Silence
4 Moment's Peace
3 Dawn Charm
3 Stonehorn Dignitary
(1 Momentary Blink)
Thoughts on this and the questions above?
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
I believe there have been a few UWg builds listed in the thread, and I'm sure they work out quite well. Moment's Peace is unequivocally the best Fog available, and I have said before that it is the main reason Green is my favorite colour for fogs. I like to keep my mana-base simple as a rule, so dislike 3-colours, but it could definitely be done with something like 4 Terramorphic Expanses, 9 Islands, 1 Forest, 8 Plains or something. You need to have the right mana at the right time, though, which I've seen become problematic for other (more complex) decks.
Against some decks, you might not even need to start fogging until turn 4. You want to play tight with your mana is probably what I'm getting at. Making the best use of it every single turn is crucial to finding the next fog and milling them. It takes a bit of practice in sequencing to get it right. When it gets to the point where you have 8+ lands in play, the deck has a lot of freedom to do whatever it wants both on its own turn and on the opponents'.
White has access to more versatile Fogs and a wider range of playables, which makes it play better against some decks (at the expense of less redundancy with Peace or a more complex mana base). The only time combat-skipping spells are better than a normal fog is against Ulamog's Crusher (as far as I can think of right now), so it's a very minor difference.
Dignitary seems like it could be good, but I am a bit worried about the mana cost. It's not necessarily that the mana isn't lax for the deck, it's that if you draw a Dignitary in the early game when you need to be Fogging on turn 3 or drawing extra cards, he's very cumbersome. When you have 6 lands or so, he becomes much better. I would just be worried that he would be a dead draw in the early game.
I think I would cut a Dignitary and add another Dawn Charm. I think the Blinking is a bit too cute to be really effective. But is could be interesting, as you tend to go through the entire deck rather quickly, you could get the combo together every time, assuming you don't turn on your opponents' removal.
Hope this answered your questions! I really encourage you to pick up the deck if you feel like destroying aggro.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I think one of the main cards that actually gives me quite a bit of trouble is Mogg Fanatic. I've taken out a bunch of my fogs, have a hard time countering him, and he always ends up doing 5-8 damage by himself. I dunno if anyone else has encountered this problem post-board like I have.
I actually thought of a solution to the problem I've been having of not assembling my combo fast enough. As there are only 4 targets for Quiet Disrepair in my deck, it's quite hard to do. It occurred to me then that there are ways of including artifacts that take up no deck-space whatsoever: Tree of Tales and Seat of the Synod. I'll be including these into my deck as of now and will continue testing. I could even potentially have the combo up by turn 2, which is incredible.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I'll test this list on 24th aug, on a National Pauper qualifier here in Brazil... let's see... I'll try to post a detailed report.
I must say though that my strategy with the artifact lands is panning out. I'm winning a lot more often. Games are very slow, so testing is grueling. I'll be posting some more accurate results soon.
National Pauper Qualifiers? Wow
Can we see an updated list? Have you hammered out what you'll be bringing? A report would be absolutely fabulous!
EDIT: I'm wondering if Brindle Boar would be useful in my sideboard to replace Arcane Denial. He'd be great as a blocker. He would deal with the goblins as well as still gain me life. If they would choose to burn it, well I just saved 7 life for myself. Maybe I'm getting tunnel vision with Burn at this point.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
NEWS: Replacing Safe passage for Riot Control, as it's a creatureless deck
Found 2 of these on my "junk" box while trying to find a CoP:black. Really with luck today!!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I've tested 10 post-board games against Burn with artifact lands, and instead of going 2-8, I went 6-4. Massive improvement, but still some work to be done.
What do you think of Brindle Boar instead of Arcane Denial in the sideboard? I figure it's the second best life gain spell in green.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
@hugo_prado: Your list isn't showing up. all I see is a broken jpeg symbol. Is anyone else not seeing it? Riot Control is a nice choice since it stops burn as well. It also has a slight edge over Respite since it gains life for creatures your opponent controls instead of just attacking creatures, so you gain life on guys they just cast. Although I', not sure if that reason is worth the extra mana.
I'm not sure if Coalition Honor Guard is a good choice. It's pretty high on the curve, but I definitely see why it would be good since it can survive most burn spells, so it takes 2 spells to kill. Have you actually tested with it? How has it worked out?
@Obermeir: Brindle Boar looks pretty good! You can block-sac him on Keldon Marauders or Kiln Fiend while negating some burn. He definitely should be tested. Arcane Denial is definitely something you need to board out against Burn since it gives the deck the Card Advantage it's missing.
I don't feel you're getting tunnel vision for Burn, especially since it's one of the only decks that works around your main deck strategy. If you have Burn in your meta, then you should definitely prep for it. It's already awesome that you've improved your results against it so well!
Thinking in change 1 Circle of protection:red from 1 from black.
I don't use Coalition Honor Guard, as Circle of protection do the job. But it is an option.
4 Moment of Silence
4 Dawn Charm
4 Moment's Peace
2 Riot Control
Draw (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Words of Wisdom
4 Vision Skeins
2 Compulsive Research
2 Oona's Grace
4 Jace's Erasure
Counter (4)
2 Arcane Denial
2 Muddle the Mixture
Lands (22)
7 Island
5 Plains
2 Forest
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Arcane Denial
3 Counterspell
2 Muddle the Mixture
1 Capsize
Thank you! I think it's wonderful that the deck has so many building opportunities. I'm also very happy that even years after building it originally, there are still new ways to improve the deck!
Hugo_Prado,
Thank you for posting your list! I think it looks fantastic; all the proportions look good. One of the things I think could probably change is the mana base. I think 8 Expanses is too many; cutting down to 6 or even 4 will probably help the deck. Remember, with the massive amount of card draw, the deck tends to find its land drops, therefore will be able to find your colours a lot of the time as well. I also think you're going to want more islands in proportion to your Plains and Forest. Personally, I always want more blue mana.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Choking Vines.
This looks good against any deck that'll use a lot of X/1 guys since it can board wipe them and give you some time to find more Fogs if you're running low. It can also work around a Flaring Pain if that's something Goblins might use against you. It can cost a good amount of mana though, so maybe it isn't worth it. What do you guys think?
For the playability, it might have some game. As you said, it would be more of a sideboard card than anything else. It would have excellent applications versus Delver, Goblins, WW, and a bit of Stompy. For most of these archetypes, however, no sideboarding is required, as the maindeck deals with creature/swarm decks very effectively already. It could be very good anti-Delver card, as it is a difficult match for us. Killing their faeries can go a long way to victory. At worst it's an expensive Fog.
I'll have to take a closer look at it sometime. Very interesting find!
EDIT: This leads me to think Fog Patch could have some playability against red decks running Flaring Pain. Any thoughts on that? Is it worth replacing a number of 1-mana fogs for this?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio