So if Tragic Lesson is better than Artificer's Epiphany, and the latter is almost playable, is Tragic Lesson a winner for at least two copies in the maindeck? I'm considering trimming two Think Twice for it.
Tragic Lesson is not necessarily better, but it certainly doesn't require you to play artifact lands in order to make it work consistently.
That being said, it does encourage you to play other lands, like cycling lands or something. Wouldn't be a bad idea, but I think both cards basically want you to build your mana base around them in some way, making them really comparable in my eyes.
Personally, I'm still really happy running 2 Krosan Tuskers in that slot, and Think Twice is still an effective card against countermagic, which is the main reason I run it over other 3 mana draw-2s.
Jaddi Offshoot doesn't seem like it would be a fast enough life gain card, and it's also vulnerable to a burn spell by having only 3 toughness. While it could prove to be a good sideboard option, I think testing is definitely required to see just how useful it really is.
Jace's Phantasm, on the other hand, is an excellent card that I look forward to trying out. As you mentioned, a tranformational sideboard with Delver of Secrets would be really sweet. Just as a roadblock, though, this card might just be the "spider" we've been needing to turn the corner against Delver decks. I'm seeing this as an immediate 4-of in Turbo Fog sideboards.
Hey Upkeep, any thoughts on Phantasm or other recent releases?
Hi Curby,
I'm loving Jace's Phantasm. It has replaced my Scattershot Archers in the sideboard. Although they don't stall the game out against Delver, they allow for a tremendous blocker and eventually a counterattack that they won't be able to stop. It has also won me games against Burn now. I think this card definitely has its place in Turbo Fog sideboards, depending on your play style of course. I do miss Archer being able to counter spells by killing faeries at instant-speed, but what can you do...
Ok, time to admit the obviousness, uw tribe is our 0-100 mu :’(
Pretty much. What really irks me is that the matchup would feel really winnable if it wasn't for Gigadrowse. It's certainly possible to win a game in the match and lock them out, but overall the matchup feels dreadful. In order to have a regular shot at beating them, we need to be able to interact with them on both our and their turn. I think something as simple as Lignify could go a long way.
I tried going without mainboard Quiet Disrepair for a league and regretted it dearly, going up against Burn in my first two matches. I did like having mainboard counterspell, though. I think I'll be putting a singleton QD in the mainboard again.
I'm also getting sick and tired of getting run over by Ninja of the Deep Hours. This card advantage machine is what makes the Delver matchup so bad. With that in mind, I'm going to try playing some mainboard Quicksands. They'll be good at stopping Ninjas, Firebrand Archers and Tireless Tribes alike. It's surprising how many tiny creatures actually cause us headaches.
EDIT: I've begun re-working big chunks of the primer to reflect the past year's changes in the metagame and my card choices and evaluations. The sideboard section got a huge overhaul and is definitely worth checking out! My next step is adding the Tribe Combo matchup to the list and updating other matchups that have changed drastically, like Tron, Burn and Delver.
EDIT: I've added the Heroic Matchup (with a video!). Nothing to write home about, it goes just like any other mono-white matchup would...
At first I was thinking about repeatable fog effects. Then, my thoughts turned to Kami of False Hope and Spore Frog. what if you could successfully use Disturbed Burial and Spore Frog for a repeatable fog effect? 6 mana is needed, and that is steep, but I bet this is obtainable. Mainboard Dispel to help protect the combo? To do this, you would need to splash black. If we were to replace one Swamp with a quicksand in this deck (the one in the first post under sample decks I mean), we could splash black. Run one copy of Disturbed Burial that you could possibly tutor for w/ Muddle. Replace 4 Fogs with 4 Spore Frogs. Thoughts?
I was also thinking of building a completely different deck that had both Kami and Frog, and was all about graveyard recursion. Problems include that you need black for better reanimation spells, and then you would be running 4 color unless you cut a color. You could cut white and lose Kami and other great fogs. You could cut green and lose possible Pulse of Murasa, Evolution Charm, and Spore Frog. You could cut blue and lose out on amazing draw spells and mill, as well as lose counterspells (don't cut blue lol). Cut black and lose great reanimation cards that are repeatable. I am thinking cutting white or black. Thoughts?
Thinking about it more, I think I will make a bant turbofog deck with a side theme of graveyard recursion with Spore Frog, Kami, Pulse of Murasa, and Evolution Charm. The rest of the deck will be pretty straightforward bant turbofog. However, without black's two-for-one graveyard recursion spells, it will be a bit hard to get lots of value. I actually don't think it will go that well, but I will try.
In all honesty, if you want to build a deck with that combo in mind, I would suggest a Tortured Existence build. It can Fog every turn using Dredgers, TE and Spore Frog, all the while kicking butt with Crypt Rats and reccurable fatties. What's great is that there are tons of ways of building this deck, so you can customize it the way you want!
I like the Pulse of Murasa plan! In a more traditional Simic Turbo Fog deck, I'd be afraid to play spore frog because of instant speed removal basically destroying your Fog for the turn.
I've been a MTG player for years and I originally built a UR Delver pauper list when I decided to pick up a deck. But now that I am seeing more Pauper events (GP side events, etc.) I think its time for me to pick a deck to settle down with and know it inside out. I've been looking at lists of all colors and at heart I am a control-combo player. I play BTL Scapeshift in Modern and in EDH I run Memnarch/Athreos, God of Passage/Jaya Ballard, Task Mage (all of which are control strategies with combos). After some searching, I truly enjoy the colors here in Turbo Fog and what its trying to accomplish. The card art is beautiful, 12 cantrips looks sublime, and the use of Arcane Denial/Muddle the Mixture looks mouth watering.
Is the main list constantly updated? I notice you seem to be doing a great job here, Upkeep. I appreciate all the work put into the primer.
That all being said, I am excited to learn the ways of this deck and to hopefully be a part of the conversation.
I've been a MTG player for years and I originally built a UR Delver pauper list when I decided to pick up a deck. But now that I am seeing more Pauper events (GP side events, etc.) I think its time for me to pick a deck to settle down with and know it inside out. I've been looking at lists of all colors and at heart I am a control-combo player. I play BTL Scapeshift in Modern and in EDH I run Memnarch/Athreos, God of Passage/Jaya Ballard, Task Mage (all of which are control strategies with combos). After some searching, I truly enjoy the colors here in Turbo Fog and what its trying to accomplish. The card art is beautiful, 12 cantrips looks sublime, and the use of Arcane Denial/Muddle the Mixture looks mouth watering.
Is the main list constantly updated? I notice you seem to be doing a great job here, Upkeep. I appreciate all the work put into the primer.
That all being said, I am excited to learn the ways of this deck and to hopefully be a part of the conversation.
Hi MuzzleMuffin! Thanks for all the compliments and your interest in the archetype. It sounds like Turbo Fog is going to be right up your alley!
For my decklist in the primer, it is constantly changing according to what I'm running at the time, like you said. In fact, I'm due to update it now, since I've changed quiet a few things.
I look forward to seeing more of you around the Pauper Forums!
Hello, after 6 months of sealed i’m Fogging again in league. 4:1 today went against 2 elves 2 white heroic and one hybrid rdw/burn. Lost vs the chain lighting dot deck. Upkeep how are you ? Seriously jace’s Phantasm could substitute the archer ? I was thinking about quicksand yesterday to get ride of tireless tribe but seems unworthy.
Alright! I tried out Quicksand for a League and had some mixed feelings. It was good in surprising situations, but overall didn't quite accomplish what I wanted. In the end, I felt like the colourless source of mana was just too much of a burden on the deck, especially since I've cut down to 19 lands and plan on going to 18 eventually.
I've taken out Jace's Phantasm from my sideboard even if I feel it's still a great card. I played a Delver game with it and the opponent was able to control their graveyard size to the point where Phantasm didn't do its job. Otherwise, it's a great card to play as a secondary win condition and can get there so much faster than an Erasure.
That being said, I've replaced the Phantasms with Aerial Volley. There aren't too many Spire Golems floating around anymore and it's better than Scattershot Archer against UR Delver because of Bolts. The Delver matchup is far from solved...
I'm also having a really hard time against the Tron deck that runs tons of countermagic, Mnemonic Wall and Ghostly Flicker. It just gets too much traction going in the late game and after a while I get locked out of the game by a recurring Prohibit. Any thoughts on this matchup?
As I was reading your comments on that Tron deck I was thinking Faerie Macabre would be good then I saw it in your list! It's an uncounterable solution to Ghostly Flicker. The only work around would to cast another Ghostly Flicker in response.
There's also Faerie Trickery which is probably too much mana, but can exile spells you don't want recurring later. There's also Grip of Amnesia which is probably a bad card, but it will either counter their Flicker or exile their GY. Their GY looks like a more important resource though so you'll probably just counter the Flicker.
How exactly is the matchup against that Tron deck? Do you outright lose from the start or are you able to get some first match wins then they wreck you post sideboarding?
As you can see, the opponent had me completely locked down, despite me playing Faerie Macabre and tons of countermagic. The game was done as soon as they stuck a Mnemonic Wall getting his Pyroblasts.
A single Faerie wasn't enough. I got value, but it only slowed down the inevitable.
I ran Faerie Trickery before and liked it, but I don't think it would work too well here because of the mana cost. Grip of Amnesia seems decent, actually. I think they would often let the spell get countered, and cantripping afterwards is amazing. I don't know if it's worth sideboard slots, but it's certainly seems fun!
I can steal a game here and there if I out-draw and out-counter them, but most of the time I feel like I'm slowly losing to their ramp and infinite value.
An answer that a Youtube commenter suggested was running bounce, and I suggested having my own Capsize. With some careful playing this could definitely work.
I just watched the video and man, that's oppressive! Is it prevalent enough to build a plan against it?
I want to suggest splashing White for Last Breath or something, but that still forces you to battle counter spells to get it to resolve. Then the flagbearer would lightning rod it too if that's a common SB card (but that didn't seem to be the case). I know splashing in another color after you've done so much fine tuning on your list would be crazy though.
You could maybe go with more cards like Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt. Either way that's a tough matchup.
Unfortunately, it's currently a tier-1 strategy, and I face it pretty frequently.
I'm going to take out my three Faerie Macabre for 2 Relic of Progenitus and 1 Capsize. These cards are still excellent in general and should be useful in many matchups.
Hey guys, loving all the work that has been done at the start section! It helps a ton. I recently picked up UG fog for pauper and am really enjoying it!
The list I copied was from the pauper challenge last Sunday on modo (18/2/18) the user name was residentzombie and he went 5-2 overall for 19th place. What do you think of his 75? Seems very hard to beat burn
Hi Maxius! Welcome to the MTGS Forums and the Pauper forums! I hope to hear more from you and how you're liking your Turbo Fog deck!
I'm very happy to hear that you found the primer useful! I indeed put a lot of work into it, so it's nice to know that people actually read it.
Residentzombie comments regularly on my youtube videos about his successes. I wish he would post them here instead, as it would actually reach a wider audience.
He basically follows the same proportions of most Turbo Fog lists, but has a different set of spells (particularly his card-draw suite). We've discussed his list before and the general idea behind his style was that he plays less "efficient" draw spells (like Thought Scour, for example), but makes up for it by "going big" with spells like Compulsive Research and Deep Analysis to really reap the card advantage for him.
The other notable difference is the mana base taking a bigger place in his strategy than most. Simic Growth Chamber into Radiant Fountain can net him a lot of life to help him fight burn spells.
The important thing to look at when building this deck is proportions. When taking that into account, his deck is not all that different from any other, and will have very similar results in gameplay.
Hi Fly_Donkey! Thanks for the shout-out. It's always good to hear that people enjoy the primer and find this a useful place to discuss Turbo fog!
As for Opt, even as an instant, I think Ponder and Preordain are still better because their effects are just stronger overall. The mana cost is so cheap that I think having the bigger effect is definitely better than instant speed.
hey guys,
I am just starting trying the list seems like it has game against everything delver is a different approach than other decks.
One thing I'm curious about. has anyone tried entourage of trest? at least in side? (green monarch) with the ability to always throw down fogs you can prevent them from taking the monarch and also can be a free fog since it blocks 2 creatures which is often all they may have depending on the matchup.
Secondly, how do you deal with burn? like if they get out of their creatures they just can kill you with 10 spells which really isnt much. I won a match against burn and lost 1 but the one i won he just drew like complete crap like all fireblasts and stuck on 1 land while i just threw down 3 erasures and chained out brainstorms. and in the second game he got stuck on 2 lands never saw a damage creature and I drew all my life gain. The matchup seems really unfavorable even with 3 hydroblasts out of the sideboard.
Which I want to say that I find pristine talisman 1 of radiant fountain and 2 simic bounce lands to really make the mana base work well. I've gotten up to 55 life in a game before I even started trying to deck my opponent.
Hi, I just comeback from a small tournament were I run the upkeep list. I did 1-2 but still had a blast. I will need to get to play faster. Also, thanks for the videos, they help alot.
hey guys,
I am just starting trying the list seems like it has game against everything delver is a different approach than other decks.
One thing I'm curious about. has anyone tried entourage of trest? at least in side? (green monarch) with the ability to always throw down fogs you can prevent them from taking the monarch and also can be a free fog since it blocks 2 creatures which is often all they may have depending on the matchup.
Secondly, how do you deal with burn? like if they get out of their creatures they just can kill you with 10 spells which really isnt much. I won a match against burn and lost 1 but the one i won he just drew like complete crap like all fireblasts and stuck on 1 land while i just threw down 3 erasures and chained out brainstorms. and in the second game he got stuck on 2 lands never saw a damage creature and I drew all my life gain. The matchup seems really unfavorable even with 3 hydroblasts out of the sideboard.
Which I want to say that I find pristine talisman 1 of radiant fountain and 2 simic bounce lands to really make the mana base work well. I've gotten up to 55 life in a game before I even started trying to deck my opponent.
Hi Kslidz! Welcome to the Pauper forums!
Delver is probably the worst matchup, but I've been slowly improving my win-rate against it through sheer practice. It helps to know the matchup inside-out. I'm constantly trying new things to try to improve this horrible and prevalent matchup.
Entourage of Trest is good but is 5 mana, which is a lot in Pauper. And while drawing an extra card each turn is nice, if ever the opponent can sneak through an attack, Turbo Fog basically has no way to get it back, making it a bit risky to play. If you ever have success with it, let me know!
I deal with Burn with lots of Countermagic and Quiet Disrepair. With artifact lands, it's possible to enchant it as soon as turn 2. From there, constant lifegain can be difficult to beat. Constant sources of damage like Firebrand Archer and Thermo-Alchemist have made this matchup much worse in recent months, however. I don't come across the matchup too often anymore, but it's probably more in the 25-75 range for Turbo Fog at this point.
Radiant Fountain and bounce lands is certainly a way to gain some extra life without devoting extra slots in the sideboard. I may have to give it a try sometime, but I'm liking where my list is right now. Are you talismans main or sideboard?
Unwind dominaria the love son between negate and rewind; any thoughts?
Unwind is a very fair-costed magic card. The fact that it is 3 mana might make it unplayable, even if you get the mana back afterwards. I came across that problem occasionally when playing Faerie Trickery, though they really aren't all that comparable.
Hi, I just comeback from a small tournament were I run the upkeep list. I did 1-2 but still had a blast. I will need to get to play faster. Also, thanks for the videos, they help alot.
Yeah, playing tournaments in paper is hard because of the time limit not being calculated by player, but as a whole. No matter how fast you play, if your opponent takes too much time to play you'll still end up tying more often than you should. You can't exactly rush your opponent along, either. Glad you're having fun and that you're finding the video content useful!
Do you have any tips playing against Tribe?
I'm not sure what I should be sideborading in and out.
I'm running theUpkeep list.
I did 1-2 yesterday at a small tournament.
Win against a weird aura/stompy build and lost against blue deliver and tribe.
Hi BaconDroid,
Tribe is a dismal matchup. Counter the tribe if you can. If not, Gigadrowse will eventually end the game through your permission. If you find yourself facing that matchup often, consider playing Spore Frog. If the game goes fairly long, you can also get your life total up to 30+ in order to shut off their combo. 34 life is usually a safe-ish zone. If they play gigadrowse and you have counters, try to counter the copy that is targeting a forest and then play Fog on their upkeep.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
That being said, it does encourage you to play other lands, like cycling lands or something. Wouldn't be a bad idea, but I think both cards basically want you to build your mana base around them in some way, making them really comparable in my eyes.
Personally, I'm still really happy running 2 Krosan Tuskers in that slot, and Think Twice is still an effective card against countermagic, which is the main reason I run it over other 3 mana draw-2s.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Jace's Phantasm, on the other hand, is an excellent card that I look forward to trying out. As you mentioned, a tranformational sideboard with Delver of Secrets would be really sweet. Just as a roadblock, though, this card might just be the "spider" we've been needing to turn the corner against Delver decks. I'm seeing this as an immediate 4-of in Turbo Fog sideboards.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Hi Curby,
I'm loving Jace's Phantasm. It has replaced my Scattershot Archers in the sideboard. Although they don't stall the game out against Delver, they allow for a tremendous blocker and eventually a counterattack that they won't be able to stop. It has also won me games against Burn now. I think this card definitely has its place in Turbo Fog sideboards, depending on your play style of course. I do miss Archer being able to counter spells by killing faeries at instant-speed, but what can you do...
Pretty much.
I tried going without mainboard Quiet Disrepair for a league and regretted it dearly, going up against Burn in my first two matches. I did like having mainboard counterspell, though. I think I'll be putting a singleton QD in the mainboard again.
I'm also getting sick and tired of getting run over by Ninja of the Deep Hours. This card advantage machine is what makes the Delver matchup so bad. With that in mind, I'm going to try playing some mainboard Quicksands. They'll be good at stopping Ninjas, Firebrand Archers and Tireless Tribes alike. It's surprising how many tiny creatures actually cause us headaches.
4 Fog
4 Tangle
4 Moment's Peace
Draw (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Think Twice
2 Words of Wisdom
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Krosan Tusker
Counterspells (7)
2 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Jace's Erasure
1 Quiet Disrepair
Lands (20)
3 Forest
5 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Thornwood Falls
2 Tree of Tales
2 Seat of the Synod
2 Quicksand
3 Counterspell
3 Dispel
2 Quiet Disrepair
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Jace's Phantasm
EDIT: I've begun re-working big chunks of the primer to reflect the past year's changes in the metagame and my card choices and evaluations. The sideboard section got a huge overhaul and is definitely worth checking out! My next step is adding the Tribe Combo matchup to the list and updating other matchups that have changed drastically, like Tron, Burn and Delver.
EDIT: I've added the Heroic Matchup (with a video!). Nothing to write home about, it goes just like any other mono-white matchup would...
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
At first I was thinking about repeatable fog effects. Then, my thoughts turned to Kami of False Hope and Spore Frog. what if you could successfully use Disturbed Burial and Spore Frog for a repeatable fog effect? 6 mana is needed, and that is steep, but I bet this is obtainable. Mainboard Dispel to help protect the combo? To do this, you would need to splash black. If we were to replace one Swamp with a quicksand in this deck (the one in the first post under sample decks I mean), we could splash black. Run one copy of Disturbed Burial that you could possibly tutor for w/ Muddle. Replace 4 Fogs with 4 Spore Frogs. Thoughts?
I was also thinking of building a completely different deck that had both Kami and Frog, and was all about graveyard recursion. Problems include that you need black for better reanimation spells, and then you would be running 4 color unless you cut a color. You could cut white and lose Kami and other great fogs. You could cut green and lose possible Pulse of Murasa, Evolution Charm, and Spore Frog. You could cut blue and lose out on amazing draw spells and mill, as well as lose counterspells (don't cut blue lol). Cut black and lose great reanimation cards that are repeatable. I am thinking cutting white or black. Thoughts?
Thinking about it more, I think I will make a bant turbofog deck with a side theme of graveyard recursion with Spore Frog, Kami, Pulse of Murasa, and Evolution Charm. The rest of the deck will be pretty straightforward bant turbofog. However, without black's two-for-one graveyard recursion spells, it will be a bit hard to get lots of value. I actually don't think it will go that well, but I will try.
Kami of False Hope/Spore Frog and Disturbed Burial/Grim Harvest was one of the first ways I tried to build this deck, ignoring Blue altogether. That was 6 years ago, I think!
In all honesty, if you want to build a deck with that combo in mind, I would suggest a Tortured Existence build. It can Fog every turn using Dredgers, TE and Spore Frog, all the while kicking butt with Crypt Rats and reccurable fatties. What's great is that there are tons of ways of building this deck, so you can customize it the way you want!
If you're curious as to what that looks like check out this link for a quick deck tech and some matches :Abzan Tortured Existence Deck Tech and Games
I like the Pulse of Murasa plan! In a more traditional Simic Turbo Fog deck, I'd be afraid to play spore frog because of instant speed removal basically destroying your Fog for the turn.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I've been a MTG player for years and I originally built a UR Delver pauper list when I decided to pick up a deck. But now that I am seeing more Pauper events (GP side events, etc.) I think its time for me to pick a deck to settle down with and know it inside out. I've been looking at lists of all colors and at heart I am a control-combo player. I play BTL Scapeshift in Modern and in EDH I run Memnarch/Athreos, God of Passage/Jaya Ballard, Task Mage (all of which are control strategies with combos). After some searching, I truly enjoy the colors here in Turbo Fog and what its trying to accomplish. The card art is beautiful, 12 cantrips looks sublime, and the use of Arcane Denial/Muddle the Mixture looks mouth watering.
Is the main list constantly updated? I notice you seem to be doing a great job here, Upkeep. I appreciate all the work put into the primer.
That all being said, I am excited to learn the ways of this deck and to hopefully be a part of the conversation.
Hi MuzzleMuffin! Thanks for all the compliments and your interest in the archetype. It sounds like Turbo Fog is going to be right up your alley!
For my decklist in the primer, it is constantly changing according to what I'm running at the time, like you said. In fact, I'm due to update it now, since I've changed quiet a few things.
I look forward to seeing more of you around the Pauper Forums!
Alright! I tried out Quicksand for a League and had some mixed feelings. It was good in surprising situations, but overall didn't quite accomplish what I wanted. In the end, I felt like the colourless source of mana was just too much of a burden on the deck, especially since I've cut down to 19 lands and plan on going to 18 eventually.
I've taken out Jace's Phantasm from my sideboard even if I feel it's still a great card. I played a Delver game with it and the opponent was able to control their graveyard size to the point where Phantasm didn't do its job. Otherwise, it's a great card to play as a secondary win condition and can get there so much faster than an Erasure.
That being said, I've replaced the Phantasms with Aerial Volley. There aren't too many Spire Golems floating around anymore and it's better than Scattershot Archer against UR Delver because of Bolts. The Delver matchup is far from solved...
I'm also having a really hard time against the Tron deck that runs tons of countermagic, Mnemonic Wall and Ghostly Flicker. It just gets too much traction going in the late game and after a while I get locked out of the game by a recurring Prohibit. Any thoughts on this matchup?
Here's my deck as of now:
3 Fog
4 Respite
4 Moment's Peace
Draw (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Think Twice
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Gush
Counterspells (7)
2 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Jace's Erasure
1 Quiet Disrepair
Lands (19)
2 Forest
7 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Thornwood Falls
3 Tree of Tales
1 Seat of the Synod
3 Counterspell
3 Dispel
2 Quiet Disrepair
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Aerial Volley
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
There's also Faerie Trickery which is probably too much mana, but can exile spells you don't want recurring later. There's also Grip of Amnesia which is probably a bad card, but it will either counter their Flicker or exile their GY. Their GY looks like a more important resource though so you'll probably just counter the Flicker.
How exactly is the matchup against that Tron deck? Do you outright lose from the start or are you able to get some first match wins then they wreck you post sideboarding?
As you can see, the opponent had me completely locked down, despite me playing Faerie Macabre and tons of countermagic. The game was done as soon as they stuck a Mnemonic Wall getting his Pyroblasts.
A single Faerie wasn't enough. I got value, but it only slowed down the inevitable.
I ran Faerie Trickery before and liked it, but I don't think it would work too well here because of the mana cost. Grip of Amnesia seems decent, actually. I think they would often let the spell get countered, and cantripping afterwards is amazing. I don't know if it's worth sideboard slots, but it's certainly seems fun!
I can steal a game here and there if I out-draw and out-counter them, but most of the time I feel like I'm slowly losing to their ramp and infinite value.
An answer that a Youtube commenter suggested was running bounce, and I suggested having my own Capsize. With some careful playing this could definitely work.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I want to suggest splashing White for Last Breath or something, but that still forces you to battle counter spells to get it to resolve. Then the flagbearer would lightning rod it too if that's a common SB card (but that didn't seem to be the case). I know splashing in another color after you've done so much fine tuning on your list would be crazy though.
You could maybe go with more cards like Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt. Either way that's a tough matchup.
I'm going to take out my three Faerie Macabre for 2 Relic of Progenitus and 1 Capsize. These cards are still excellent in general and should be useful in many matchups.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Good news! I actually took down the tron list, thanks in part to my new sideboarding! Check it out!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Lol, I thought it was an "L' in your name! I tried adding you a year ago and that explains why it didn't work!
The list I copied was from the pauper challenge last Sunday on modo (18/2/18) the user name was residentzombie and he went 5-2 overall for 19th place. What do you think of his 75? Seems very hard to beat burn
I'm very happy to hear that you found the primer useful! I indeed put a lot of work into it, so it's nice to know that people actually read it.
Residentzombie comments regularly on my youtube videos about his successes. I wish he would post them here instead, as it would actually reach a wider audience.
He basically follows the same proportions of most Turbo Fog lists, but has a different set of spells (particularly his card-draw suite). We've discussed his list before and the general idea behind his style was that he plays less "efficient" draw spells (like Thought Scour, for example), but makes up for it by "going big" with spells like Compulsive Research and Deep Analysis to really reap the card advantage for him.
The other notable difference is the mana base taking a bigger place in his strategy than most. Simic Growth Chamber into Radiant Fountain can net him a lot of life to help him fight burn spells.
The important thing to look at when building this deck is proportions. When taking that into account, his deck is not all that different from any other, and will have very similar results in gameplay.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
As for Opt, even as an instant, I think Ponder and Preordain are still better because their effects are just stronger overall. The mana cost is so cheap that I think having the bigger effect is definitely better than instant speed.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I am just starting trying the list seems like it has game against everything delver is a different approach than other decks.
One thing I'm curious about. has anyone tried entourage of trest? at least in side? (green monarch) with the ability to always throw down fogs you can prevent them from taking the monarch and also can be a free fog since it blocks 2 creatures which is often all they may have depending on the matchup.
Secondly, how do you deal with burn? like if they get out of their creatures they just can kill you with 10 spells which really isnt much. I won a match against burn and lost 1 but the one i won he just drew like complete crap like all fireblasts and stuck on 1 land while i just threw down 3 erasures and chained out brainstorms. and in the second game he got stuck on 2 lands never saw a damage creature and I drew all my life gain. The matchup seems really unfavorable even with 3 hydroblasts out of the sideboard.
Which I want to say that I find pristine talisman 1 of radiant fountain and 2 simic bounce lands to really make the mana base work well. I've gotten up to 55 life in a game before I even started trying to deck my opponent.
Hi Kslidz! Welcome to the Pauper forums!
Delver is probably the worst matchup, but I've been slowly improving my win-rate against it through sheer practice. It helps to know the matchup inside-out. I'm constantly trying new things to try to improve this horrible and prevalent matchup.
Entourage of Trest is good but is 5 mana, which is a lot in Pauper. And while drawing an extra card each turn is nice, if ever the opponent can sneak through an attack, Turbo Fog basically has no way to get it back, making it a bit risky to play. If you ever have success with it, let me know!
I deal with Burn with lots of Countermagic and Quiet Disrepair. With artifact lands, it's possible to enchant it as soon as turn 2. From there, constant lifegain can be difficult to beat. Constant sources of damage like Firebrand Archer and Thermo-Alchemist have made this matchup much worse in recent months, however. I don't come across the matchup too often anymore, but it's probably more in the 25-75 range for Turbo Fog at this point.
Radiant Fountain and bounce lands is certainly a way to gain some extra life without devoting extra slots in the sideboard. I may have to give it a try sometime, but I'm liking where my list is right now. Are you talismans main or sideboard?
Unwind is a very fair-costed magic card. The fact that it is 3 mana might make it unplayable, even if you get the mana back afterwards. I came across that problem occasionally when playing Faerie Trickery, though they really aren't all that comparable.
Yeah, playing tournaments in paper is hard because of the time limit not being calculated by player, but as a whole. No matter how fast you play, if your opponent takes too much time to play you'll still end up tying more often than you should. You can't exactly rush your opponent along, either. Glad you're having fun and that you're finding the video content useful!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Do you have any tips playing against Tribe?
I'm not sure what I should be sideborading in and out.
I'm running theUpkeep list.
I did 1-2 yesterday at a small tournament.
Win against a weird aura/stompy build and lost against blue deliver and tribe.
Hi BaconDroid,
Tribe is a dismal matchup. Counter the tribe if you can. If not, Gigadrowse will eventually end the game through your permission. If you find yourself facing that matchup often, consider playing Spore Frog. If the game goes fairly long, you can also get your life total up to 30+ in order to shut off their combo. 34 life is usually a safe-ish zone. If they play gigadrowse and you have counters, try to counter the copy that is targeting a forest and then play Fog on their upkeep.
Sideboarding suggestions: -4 Respite/Tangle, -2 Arcane Denial, -1 Think Twice, +3 Dispel, + 2 Quiet Disrepair, +2 Counterspell.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio