This deck is completely untested. This is the very first draft. Nonetheless, I think the idea has some potential and I'm eager to hear some feedback on card choices and numbers.
I'm currently working on making a self-discard deck with Vampire Hounds as the main win condition. It can double up in usefulness with a Horror of the Broken Lands in play, which can be discarded and Exhumed.
The deck is fueled mainly by playing Squadron Hawks and Legion Conquistadors which place additional copies in your hand which can then be discarded for profit. The card Reinforcements then kicks in to fuel even more card advantage when coupled with these tutoring creatures.
The deck in general should feel pretty resilient to removal considering all the recursion it runs, and the high creature count should keep the pressure on the opponent.
Cool interaction: All 4 hawks in graveyard, cast Reinforcements, putting three back and then play Unearth, putting the last one into play and fetching the other 3 from your library.
Elvish Spirit Guide is my way of being able to turn lands into acceleration and fodder for the Hounds. It makes the deck a little faster and also improves late-game draws.
Also, is Elvish Spirit Guide common?! I always saw it was Uncommon or does it fall under the weird rarities some older sets have? If so then I need to bring out my playset for some brewing!
My main issue is the lack of removal. Do you just hope to power through with your creatures being pumped? And is Fume Spitter recurring enough to handle things? I would probably try Ghastly Demise or even Victim of Night.
I used to assume Elvish Spirit Guide was Common as well. I noticed I wasn't seeing it used in Pauper lists and looked it up and saw the truth! :'(
Fume Spitter does seem good since it's a permanent debuff plus it can add in some extra reach paired with Crypt Rats to hit anything that might be a bit out of reach for your mana. I suppose it can also be recurred multiple times with TortEx and other spells to take out X/2s and X/3s.
I guess the main concern this deck has is graveyard hate, but since Reinforcements is an instant you do have some protection against it. You also have access to Gravepurge. It does cost 2 more (which is a lot for this format and probably for your curve), but it does get you more than three cards back and replaces itself. It's an instant as well so you can save your entire Graveyard from being exiled!
I definitely want to see some testing results once you get around to it! What were you thinking for a side board?
I thought about Gravepurge but always figured it was too expensive, even with the added cantrip.
Fume Spitter may not be the best removal spell, though it synergizes well with all the recursion this deck packs.
I've only had time to play two games versus Delver, going 1-1, both very grindy and boring matches. I can already tell that Crypt Rats comboes incredibly well with Exhume and Unearth. This might become another focal point of the deck.
I'm also finding myself making interesting piles with Reinforcements, which I didn't really think about when building the deck. Putting a Crypt Rats or Hound back on top with two Hawks or conquistadors has been pretty sweet.
Fume Spitter does seem like good removal with the deck. I think my main issue was thinking about match ups with bigger threats. Crypt Rats is a very good sweeper, especially when you can keep bringing them back, but they can end up hurting yourself a lot if there's bigger threats. I guess this is where the sideboard can make up for that. Tragic Slip might be a good choice if you end up seeing Morbid trigger often.
Horror of the Broken Lands seems pretty good with Cycle + Exhume. Is that enough to warrant it? Is Exhume worth it to retrigger an ETB or bring back other creatures? If you answered no to both questions then maybe try Grisly Survivor. He can be targeted with Unearth and perhaps you can find something better in place of Exhume. Macabre Waltz seems like a solid inclusion. Triggers Madness and Grisly Survivor.
Another interaction that might be good is Okiba-Gang Shinobi. You don't see them in a lot of decks these days even though they can be brutal. You can Reinforce Hawks back on top of your deck and if one Hawk is in play then Ninjutsu it to your hand to recast. This can add some extra fight against control and tempo!
Another sideboard option could be Sylvok Lifestaff if you find yourself taking a lot of damage from Crypt Rats. Getting some life back and adding some power to the Hawks seems good. Perhaps not main deck good, but still something to consider if you continue playing the deck.
Wow! Thanks so much for this comment! There is a lot of really good info here!
I had no idea Grisly Survivor was a card! This will definitely take the place of Horror and make me rethink my number of Exhumes I run. It has a much more appropriate mana cost and still has 3 toughness, which has it survive a lot of stuff in the meta.
Sideboard will definitely an important next step once I've figured out exactly what the deck's game plan is. I'm not sure where it falls in terms of combo/aggro/midrange and how it plays versus other top-tier decks. Gosh, if I wasn't so busy at work right now I would love to test this more...
Good point with the Ninjitsu. I think this play might be a bit difficult to pull off, but it's worth a try!
I've tested a few more games and have streamlined the deck a whole lot more.
Here's the pre-board gameplan: beat down with Vampire Hounds, Grisly Survivor and incidental value creatures in the mid-game in just a few swings. Keep the board clear of smaller creatures (like Delver or Pit-Skulks) by repeatedly abusing Crypt Rats with Reinforcements, Tortured Existence and especially Unearth to consistently recur it whenever necessary. Stinkweed Imp makes for a great blocker, discard fodder and develops the graveyard to find us the tools we need to win.
I've worked on the mana base quite a bit and am at a point where I feel it works well enough.
I've removed Exhume completely, as it was just too symmetrical or difficult to break, even with multiple Bojuka Bogs in the mainboard.
I've moved the Kamis to the sideboard for aggressive strategies that requires more of a "lock-down" style of play, like a traditional Tortex deck.
I've learned that Reinforcements is a really powerful card. It's often a must-counter, which is great for a 1-mana instant. Hawk-Hawk-Rats has been a very successful pile.
I've been very happy with SSG as a mana source and fodder. It speeds up our 3-drops when necessary or gets discarded in the late game for value.
I'd like to fit Grave Scrabbler back in, as I think it would fit very nicely with the value-centric strategy. Not sure what to cut there.
Interesting note: Unearth can be cycled to trigger Grisly Survivor, which is pretty great synergy. It's never a dead card.
And very good point on SSG being good fodder once the mana isn't relevant.
I agree that Grave Scrabbler should be in the deck. I would suggest taking out a Crypt Rats because with the amount of dredge and recursion are 4 copies necessary? And maybe cut a Grisly Survivor since it requires other means to be pumped. That would give room for 2 Scrabblers. But those are still hard cuts to make since the deck appears to be filled with important cards.
I realized how similar my idea really was to the old "dead dog" deck, which is Golgari colours and plays many of the same combos. Grave Scrabbler is a staple in that deck and should be here too.
Library of Leng actually solves the occasional problem I was having with hand size and also interacts very well with Discarding.
I cut down on Reinforcements. The card is good, but situational.
Twins of Maurer Estate is a weaker version of Arrogant Wurm for this deck. You get the same number of stats but loses the trample. 3/5 is still an excellent body.
I gave up on Simian Spirit Guide. It was just too cute for what it was worth.
Also, some sort of unblockable effect for the Hounds for max damage, but said card doesn't exist in B and W, although Aphotic Wisps and Dirge of Dread from Black and Emerge Unscathed and Shelter from White "mimic" the said effect and netting an additional card to be discarded to boot! (Well not Emerge Unscathed, but you get the idea).
Thanks! I have been thinking about Emerge Unscathed. It's a great way to protect your creature from a removal spell and make it unblockable on your turn to go for the kill. I think two copies would be great.
How does Library of Leng interact with Vampire Hounds? Let's say you discard three cards to pump the Hounds (giving it +6/+6), then you can put one, two or all three cards back on top of your library? If so, that's a new wrinkle to explore right there.
How does Library of Leng interact with Vampire Hounds? Let's say you discard three cards to pump the Hounds (giving it +6/+6), then you can put one, two or all three cards back on top of your library? If so, that's a new wrinkle to explore right there.
Exactly!
Library works very well with Hawk and Conquistador as well. You play one, discard two, play a second, search two more, discard them again... It can make for quite a bit of pumping or recurring. Mix it up with Dredge and things get even more interesting.
Looks like a good interaction, but I don't think it works with Vampire Hounds. I looked at Gatherer to see the Oracle text and look at the ruling section and one ruling says "You can’t use the Library of Leng ability to place a discarded card on top of your library when you discard a card as a cost, because costs aren’t effects." So since discarding to Hounds is a cost then it doesn't work according to this ruling. Grisly Survivor will still trigger from it, but that isn't enough of a reason to run Library at that point.
Looks like a good interaction, but I don't think it works with Vampire Hounds. I looked at Gatherer to see the Oracle text and look at the ruling section and one ruling says "You can’t use the Library of Leng ability to place a discarded card on top of your library when you discard a card as a cost, because costs aren’t effects." So since discarding to Hounds is a cost then it doesn't work according to this ruling. Grisly Survivor will still trigger from it, but that isn't enough of a reason to run Library at that point.
Correct. Library of Leng doesn't work with anything that has discarding a card as a cost since costs are not effects.
2 Kami of False Hope
2 Fume Spitter
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Vampire Hounds
4 Legion Conquistador
2 Stinkweed Imp
2 Crypt Rats
2 Grave Scrabbler
2 Horror of the Broken Lands
3 Tortured Existence
4 Reinforcements
4 Unearth
4 Exhume
Mana (21)
3 Bojuka Bog
6 Swamp
6 Plains
2 Orzhov Basilica
4 Simian Spirit Guide
I'm currently working on making a self-discard deck with Vampire Hounds as the main win condition. It can double up in usefulness with a Horror of the Broken Lands in play, which can be discarded and Exhumed.
The deck is fueled mainly by playing Squadron Hawks and Legion Conquistadors which place additional copies in your hand which can then be discarded for profit. The card Reinforcements then kicks in to fuel even more card advantage when coupled with these tutoring creatures.
The deck can also play the long-game by playing a Tortured Existence-style game with Kami of False Hope and Crypt Rats, fueled by Stinkweed Imp as the only Dredger.
The deck in general should feel pretty resilient to removal considering all the recursion it runs, and the high creature count should keep the pressure on the opponent.
Cool interaction: All 4 hawks in graveyard, cast Reinforcements, putting three back and then play Unearth, putting the last one into play and fetching the other 3 from your library.
Elvish Spirit Guide is my way of being able to turn lands into acceleration and fodder for the Hounds. It makes the deck a little faster and also improves late-game draws.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Also, is Elvish Spirit Guide common?! I always saw it was Uncommon or does it fall under the weird rarities some older sets have? If so then I need to bring out my playset for some brewing!
My main issue is the lack of removal. Do you just hope to power through with your creatures being pumped? And is Fume Spitter recurring enough to handle things? I would probably try Ghastly Demise or even Victim of Night.
My main concern was also removal. Stinkweed does a decent impression, but maybe Fume Spitter would be better as an actual removal spell. Thanks!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Fume Spitter does seem good since it's a permanent debuff plus it can add in some extra reach paired with Crypt Rats to hit anything that might be a bit out of reach for your mana. I suppose it can also be recurred multiple times with TortEx and other spells to take out X/2s and X/3s.
I guess the main concern this deck has is graveyard hate, but since Reinforcements is an instant you do have some protection against it. You also have access to Gravepurge. It does cost 2 more (which is a lot for this format and probably for your curve), but it does get you more than three cards back and replaces itself. It's an instant as well so you can save your entire Graveyard from being exiled!
I definitely want to see some testing results once you get around to it! What were you thinking for a side board?
Fume Spitter may not be the best removal spell, though it synergizes well with all the recursion this deck packs.
I've only had time to play two games versus Delver, going 1-1, both very grindy and boring matches. I can already tell that Crypt Rats comboes incredibly well with Exhume and Unearth. This might become another focal point of the deck.
I'm also finding myself making interesting piles with Reinforcements, which I didn't really think about when building the deck. Putting a Crypt Rats or Hound back on top with two Hawks or conquistadors has been pretty sweet.
I haven't run into a Horror of the Broken Lands yet, so I still have no idea how strong/weak it is.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Horror of the Broken Lands seems pretty good with Cycle + Exhume. Is that enough to warrant it? Is Exhume worth it to retrigger an ETB or bring back other creatures? If you answered no to both questions then maybe try Grisly Survivor. He can be targeted with Unearth and perhaps you can find something better in place of Exhume. Macabre Waltz seems like a solid inclusion. Triggers Madness and Grisly Survivor.
Another interaction that might be good is Okiba-Gang Shinobi. You don't see them in a lot of decks these days even though they can be brutal. You can Reinforce Hawks back on top of your deck and if one Hawk is in play then Ninjutsu it to your hand to recast. This can add some extra fight against control and tempo!
Another sideboard option could be Sylvok Lifestaff if you find yourself taking a lot of damage from Crypt Rats. Getting some life back and adding some power to the Hawks seems good. Perhaps not main deck good, but still something to consider if you continue playing the deck.
I had no idea Grisly Survivor was a card! This will definitely take the place of Horror and make me rethink my number of Exhumes I run. It has a much more appropriate mana cost and still has 3 toughness, which has it survive a lot of stuff in the meta.
Sideboard will definitely an important next step once I've figured out exactly what the deck's game plan is. I'm not sure where it falls in terms of combo/aggro/midrange and how it plays versus other top-tier decks. Gosh, if I wasn't so busy at work right now I would love to test this more...
Good point with the Ninjitsu. I think this play might be a bit difficult to pull off, but it's worth a try!
Maybe this is the deck for Touch of Moonglove or Rush of Vitality combo?
Now I'm starting to wonder if Legion Conquistador should even be in here...
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I'm really excited to see how this deck shapes over time! It looks interesting to pilot and has the possibility to be very intricate.
Here's the pre-board gameplan: beat down with Vampire Hounds, Grisly Survivor and incidental value creatures in the mid-game in just a few swings. Keep the board clear of smaller creatures (like Delver or Pit-Skulks) by repeatedly abusing Crypt Rats with Reinforcements, Tortured Existence and especially Unearth to consistently recur it whenever necessary. Stinkweed Imp makes for a great blocker, discard fodder and develops the graveyard to find us the tools we need to win.
I've worked on the mana base quite a bit and am at a point where I feel it works well enough.
I've removed Exhume completely, as it was just too symmetrical or difficult to break, even with multiple Bojuka Bogs in the mainboard.
I've moved the Kamis to the sideboard for aggressive strategies that requires more of a "lock-down" style of play, like a traditional Tortex deck.
I've learned that Reinforcements is a really powerful card. It's often a must-counter, which is great for a 1-mana instant. Hawk-Hawk-Rats has been a very successful pile.
I've been very happy with SSG as a mana source and fodder. It speeds up our 3-drops when necessary or gets discarded in the late game for value.
I'd like to fit Grave Scrabbler back in, as I think it would fit very nicely with the value-centric strategy. Not sure what to cut there.
Interesting note: Unearth can be cycled to trigger Grisly Survivor, which is pretty great synergy. It's never a dead card.
2 Fume Spitter
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Legion Conquistador
4 Vampire Hounds
4 Grisly Survivor
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Crypt Rats
Spells (12)
4 Unearth
4 Tortured Existence
4 Reinforcements
5 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Orzhov Basilica
4 Scoured Barrens
4 Ash Barrens
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Kami of False Hope
1 Stinkweed Imp
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
And very good point on SSG being good fodder once the mana isn't relevant.
I agree that Grave Scrabbler should be in the deck. I would suggest taking out a Crypt Rats because with the amount of dredge and recursion are 4 copies necessary? And maybe cut a Grisly Survivor since it requires other means to be pumped. That would give room for 2 Scrabblers. But those are still hard cuts to make since the deck appears to be filled with important cards.
4 Fume Spitter
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Legion Conquistador
2 Crypt Rats
4 Vampire Hounds
4 Grave Scrabbler
2 Stinkweed Imp
2 Grisly Survivor
3 Twins of Maurer Estate
4 Tortured Existence
2 Reinforcements
2 Library of Leng
Lands (23)
4 Scoured Barrens
4 Ash Barrens
7 Plains
7 Swamp
I realized how similar my idea really was to the old "dead dog" deck, which is Golgari colours and plays many of the same combos. Grave Scrabbler is a staple in that deck and should be here too.
Library of Leng actually solves the occasional problem I was having with hand size and also interacts very well with Discarding.
I cut down on Reinforcements. The card is good, but situational.
Twins of Maurer Estate is a weaker version of Arrogant Wurm for this deck. You get the same number of stats but loses the trample. 3/5 is still an excellent body.
I gave up on Simian Spirit Guide. It was just too cute for what it was worth.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Also, some sort of unblockable effect for the Hounds for max damage, but said card doesn't exist in B and W, although Aphotic Wisps and Dirge of Dread from Black and Emerge Unscathed and Shelter from White "mimic" the said effect and netting an additional card to be discarded to boot! (Well not Emerge Unscathed, but you get the idea).
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Exactly!
Library works very well with Hawk and Conquistador as well. You play one, discard two, play a second, search two more, discard them again... It can make for quite a bit of pumping or recurring. Mix it up with Dredge and things get even more interesting.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Correct. Library of Leng doesn't work with anything that has discarding a card as a cost since costs are not effects.
I got confused because I played it with Tolarian Winds to great effect online.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio