It's also worth noting that theoretically, Hands taps down up to 2 creatures the turn it is cast. This could be massively important, especially against mirror matches, Affinity, Post, Stompy, etc. The biggest issue is what to cut for it? When do we play it optimally?
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Occasionally streaming Pauper. Stop by Here for chatting and viewing pleasure!
So last night after a couple-three weeks of playing some random Tournament Practice Room matches, I sprung for the tickets to play a few 2-man queues I didn't do so hot; I lost one match against Izzet Post and two mirror matches. I think I took each one to 3 games, though, so that's good. Also, the last match, I might have been able to win game three had I not misclicked on my Spellstutter, and/or had more time (the first game took like 18 minutes off my clock).
The Post matchup seems so difficult, with *all the card advantage*. But that's the point, isn't it? I guess we just gotta go Aggro, huh? And yeah, Prism seems pretty important for them for hitting colors. I'll try to remember that next time. So, is Spreading Seas good in this matchup? I got one to resolve against them twice, but then later got Ghostly Flicker'd after I ran out of counterspells. I think the theme of disruption seems good, but it's doesn't really affect the board state. I dunno?
The mirrors were tough, too. I'm pretty sure I got out-played. I got really greedy once or twice and kept a one-land/Delver hand with Ponder/Preordain/Brainstorm followup, and didn't hit my second land until way too late. Also, I have a bunch of stuff to board in against the mirror, but I couldn't figure out what to take out. I ended up taking out a Ninja or two and a couple of Excludes. Now that I think about it, that seems kinda bad, since besides Gush, they're the only source of card advantage my build gets.
So that reminds me, is stuff like Think Twice or Accumulated Knowledge any good? I know lots of builds run the latter, but I haven't seen it in any lists lately.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I would be very anxious about lowering my instant/sorcery count, though.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
bahaha good catch. And I guess it's not really worth it for just the Ninjas, since it requires them on the board, competes heavily with the 1cc slot, and is liable to 2-for-1s.
What are people's thoughts on the Chris Davis version of Delver? I've been toying with it and I really like the hard counters rather than the conditional Spellstutters. I found all the Faeries are just useless against Affinity and Post, two of the most popular decks right now.
For those who don't know, this version of Delver doesn't run any Faeries pre-board. The creature count is 10-12 creatures, featuring 4 Delvers, and some mix of Spire Golem, Sea Gate Oracle, and Frostburn Weird. It uses Serrated Arrows to pick off their board, and Gushes/Excludes to generate card advantage
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Occasionally streaming Pauper. Stop by Here for chatting and viewing pleasure!
What are people's thoughts on the Chris Davis version of Delver?
Do you know the muffin man? Neither do we so please provide a link or something more for us to go off of on here instead of assuming we know what your talking about.
Hi - I'm looking to feature this deck on my podcast Pauper's Cage soon. If you are, or if you know someone who would be a good "expert" on the show, pleas e-mail me at [email]JasonMoore229@gmail.com[/email] - looking for someone with extensive knowledge and DE results. Thank you!
Do you know the muffin man? Neither do we so please provide a link or something more for us to go off of on here instead of assuming we know what your talking about.
Why sure, I can give a decklist. I didn't before because I was on my phone.
Why sure, I can give a decklist. I didn't before because I was on my phone.
Thank you! Thought you meant hard counters like Counterspell and not switching out creature based conditional counter for spell based conditional counter. It could be creature light and possibly making it harder to get in those last few points of damage to win but, definitely helps on flipping Delver ASAP. With the meta changing to the new bans I think this could be really great change.
Woops, forgot about the Preordains and Serum Visions. Fixed.
Also, before people ask, Serum Visions > Ponder or Brainstorm in this deck. There are cards that this deck runs that aren't universally good, that you don't want at any point in the game if you can ship it to the bottom of the library. Serrated Arrows and Snakeform aren't very good against Post for example, and you don't want a shuffle effect to put it anywhere near the top again.
There's also a variant that uses 4 Clout of the Dominus and trades the non-Delver creatures for blue/red ones like Stream Hopper, Riverfall Mimic, and Noggle Bandit (I think 4 4 2). Note that none of them take red mana to cast, so it's still a mono-blue deck.
Anyone have a sample list of this deck ?!
I've been trying to run this deck for a few days now, but something still feels off!
Hi - I'm looking to feature this deck on my podcast Pauper's Cage soon. If you are, or if you know someone who would be a good "expert" on the show, pleas e-mail me at [email]JasonMoore229@gmail.com[/email] - looking for someone with extensive knowledge and DE results. Thank you!
Go find xMiMx on modo, he's the expert on delver and has results to back it up.
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"Death - an outmoded concept. We sleep, and we change."
I've been trying to run this deck for a few days now, but something still feels off!
Wow, the one that I noticed in the dailies placed I think literally years ago now. Obviously now you'd want Frostburn Weird in place of some less impressive multicolored creatures, but I honestly don't remember what else the deck had.
Remember, kids: A creature isn't "unblocked" during the Declare Attackers phase, so if you're blocking a Delver of Secrets with removal, do it then, not during Declare Blockers - so your opponent can't Ninja of the Deep Hours out of it.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
I 4-0ed a daily a couple of days ago with this, and I've been doing very well battling the queues with it. The deck is extremely strong, though you do need to tune the sideboard based on what you're seeing.
Right now I like some number of curse of the bloody tome for the cloudpost matchup. They do have pyroblast which is annoying, but sometimes you can just mill out all their win-cons or they can't kill you before they lose
I 4-0ed a daily a couple of days ago with this, and I've been doing very well battling the queues with it. The deck is extremely strong, though you do need to tune the sideboard based on what you're seeing.
Right now I like some number of curse of the bloody tome for the cloudpost matchup. They do have pyroblast which is annoying, but sometimes you can just mill out all their win-cons or they can't kill you before they lose
Wasn't sure what deck list you were talking about since someone recently started talking about a no faerie version and thought you might mean that deck. Coral Net seems like an odd card. How did it work out for you?
Wasn't sure what deck list you were talking about since someone recently started talking about a no faerie version and thought you might mean that deck. Coral Nest seems like an odd card. How did it work out for you?
Coral net is actually super important against monogreen and monowhite. Both of those decks run a low land count, so if they're discarding, they're almost definitely discarding a spell. If they don't discard, it's basically a one-mana hard removal spell which is also quite good.
By the way, those unsummons are supposed to be snaps, but all the bots were sold out
Yeah that was me. I went 3-1 in a daily about a week ago with it, although admittedly I didn't deserve my round 4 win. Opponent had to mull to 5 both games and never saw his 2nd land in either game. He was a UR Post player with 23 lands main deck, so I felt bad. I think Faerieless Delver has a much better game against UR than Delver Faeries, but it always feels bad winning when opponent never stood a chance on mana screw.
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Occasionally streaming Pauper. Stop by Here for chatting and viewing pleasure!
Returnee R Magic Player here with little to no knowledge of the meta game so give take it easy on me (havn't played magic for over a year now since my last MOC)
I'm looking for advice on how to improve my current deck list which I 3-1 in for Event 5196353.
Note: the guy who beat me came first place, which is a shame since that match so should of been mine
I'm thinking about adding Gush and Ninja of the Deep Hours but they seem like such risky cards to run. What are your thoughts on these cards and which MUs do they shine in?
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Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Returnee R Magic Player here with little to no knowledge of the meta game so give take it easy on me (havn't played magic for over a year now since my last MOC)
I'm looking for advice on how to improve my current deck list which I 3-1 in for Event 5196353.
Note: the guy who beat me came first place, which is a shame since that match so should of been mine
I'm thinking about adding Gush and Ninja of the Deep Hours but they seem like such risky cards to run. What are your thoughts on these cards and which MUs do they shine in?
The ninja is just good in general. It lets you return spellstutters to your hand to keep countering stuff, and a 2/2 is a pretty decent body for this deck. Of course, it also draws you cards. It is, however, the first card I tend to side out. It's a good game 1 card, because it's just generically good against the field. Game two, I think we can do better. I generally side out anywhere between one and all four depending on the matchup. Of course, in any mirror situation, you always keep them in.
Gush is good for two reasons: 1) it's a "free" spell. It lets us keep up countermagic while still doing something. That's always important. 2) Since we function on few land to begin with, it lets us use our land drops to generate card advantage. We can tap 2, gush two lands back to our hand and then replay a land. Just like in the above situation with ninjas, it's a way of developing mild card advantage that adds up over the course of a game.
Having practiced in the TP rooms a bunch recently, I've come to see why there are complaints about Delver.
Despite it being a good MU for what I'm playing (UB Trinket), the entire few games are exercises in frustration as I'm countered on what're effectively 2 islands for the first ten turns, with them curving Faeries, Dazes and Ninjas perfectly, or just a a farce where I demolish their hand T3 and proceed to faceroll with various Rats and Mulldrifter beats.
the entire few games are exercises in frustration as I'm countered on what're effectively 2 islands for the first ten turns, with them curving Faeries, Dazes and Ninjas perfectly
Bluh!
I mean, that's what the deck is designed to do - operate on 2-3 lands and counter everything you play.
Fires :symr:f Salvation
The Post matchup seems so difficult, with *all the card advantage*. But that's the point, isn't it? I guess we just gotta go Aggro, huh? And yeah, Prism seems pretty important for them for hitting colors. I'll try to remember that next time. So, is Spreading Seas good in this matchup? I got one to resolve against them twice, but then later got Ghostly Flicker'd after I ran out of counterspells. I think the theme of disruption seems good, but it's doesn't really affect the board state. I dunno?
The mirrors were tough, too. I'm pretty sure I got out-played. I got really greedy once or twice and kept a one-land/Delver hand with Ponder/Preordain/Brainstorm followup, and didn't hit my second land until way too late. Also, I have a bunch of stuff to board in against the mirror, but I couldn't figure out what to take out. I ended up taking out a Ninja or two and a couple of Excludes. Now that I think about it, that seems kinda bad, since besides Gush, they're the only source of card advantage my build gets.
So that reminds me, is stuff like Think Twice or Accumulated Knowledge any good? I know lots of builds run the latter, but I haven't seen it in any lists lately.
Currently playing:
Standard:
Legacy:
Pauper:
Commander:
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Counterspell
2 Deprive
3 Daze
// Other Spells
4 Piracy Charm
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Snap
3 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
15 Island
1 Quicksand
How about Porcelain Legionnaire for an even more explosive start?
Frostburn Weird?
Legacy Gobbyboogers R
I would be very anxious about lowering my instant/sorcery count, though.
Legacy Gobbyboogers R
For those who don't know, this version of Delver doesn't run any Faeries pre-board. The creature count is 10-12 creatures, featuring 4 Delvers, and some mix of Spire Golem, Sea Gate Oracle, and Frostburn Weird. It uses Serrated Arrows to pick off their board, and Gushes/Excludes to generate card advantage
Fires :symr:f Salvation
Do you know the muffin man? Neither do we so please provide a link or something more for us to go off of on here instead of assuming we know what your talking about.
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Why sure, I can give a decklist. I didn't before because I was on my phone.
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Frostburn Weird
2 Sea Gate Oracle
3 Spire Golem
4 Preordain
4 Serum Visions
4 Piracy Charm
2 Snakeform
2 Serrated Arrows
3 Gush
2 Dispel
4 Counterspell
3 Logic Knot
2 Exclude
2 Coast Watcher
2 Weatherseed Faeries
3 Curse of Chains
4 Hydroblast
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Dispel
1 Frostburn Weird
1 Echoing Truth
Fires :symr:f Salvation
Thank you! Thought you meant hard counters like Counterspell and not switching out creature based conditional counter for spell based conditional counter. It could be creature light and possibly making it harder to get in those last few points of damage to win but, definitely helps on flipping Delver ASAP. With the meta changing to the new bans I think this could be really great change.
Also, before people ask, Serum Visions > Ponder or Brainstorm in this deck. There are cards that this deck runs that aren't universally good, that you don't want at any point in the game if you can ship it to the bottom of the library. Serrated Arrows and Snakeform aren't very good against Post for example, and you don't want a shuffle effect to put it anywhere near the top again.
Double edit: just 2 Serrated Arrows, not 4
Fires :symr:f Salvation
Anyone have a sample list of this deck ?!
I've been trying to run this deck for a few days now, but something still feels off!
Go find xMiMx on modo, he's the expert on delver and has results to back it up.
"Death - an outmoded concept. We sleep, and we change."
Awesome sig and avatar by Mr. Stuff over at High~Light Studios!
Wow, the one that I noticed in the dailies placed I think literally years ago now. Obviously now you'd want Frostburn Weird in place of some less impressive multicolored creatures, but I honestly don't remember what else the deck had.
Right now I like some number of curse of the bloody tome for the cloudpost matchup. They do have pyroblast which is annoying, but sometimes you can just mill out all their win-cons or they can't kill you before they lose
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Heres the deck list and link:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5163716
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Frostburn Weird
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Phantasmal Bear
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Spire Golem
4 Counterspell
3 Daze
1 Deprive
2 Gush
3 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Unsummon
1 Deprive
2 Dispel
2 Piracy Charm
2 Serrated Arrows
2 Steel Sabotage
3 Stormbound Geist
Wasn't sure what deck list you were talking about since someone recently started talking about a no faerie version and thought you might mean that deck. Coral Net seems like an odd card. How did it work out for you?
Coral net is actually super important against monogreen and monowhite. Both of those decks run a low land count, so if they're discarding, they're almost definitely discarding a spell. If they don't discard, it's basically a one-mana hard removal spell which is also quite good.
By the way, those unsummons are supposed to be snaps, but all the bots were sold out
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Fires :symr:f Salvation
I'm looking for advice on how to improve my current deck list which I 3-1 in for Event 5196353.
16x Island
Equipment 01
01x Bonesplitter
Spells 22
04x Accumulated Knowledge
04x Counterspell
04x Preordain
03x Ponder
03x Snap
02x Brainstorm
01x Daze
01x Deprive
04x Delver of Secrets
04x Spellstutter Sprite
04x Spire Golem
03x Cloud of Faeries
03x Frostburn
03x Phantasmal Bear
03x Coral net
03x Hydroblast
02x Serrated Arrows
02x Curfew
02x Steel Sabotage
01x Bonesplitter
01x Daze
01x Deprive
Games with youtube videos (Warning these videos may cause involuntary swearing since I make so many stupid mistake...):
R1: Mono-Blue Delver VS RG LD
R2: Mono-Blue Delver VS Mono-Blue Delver
R3: Mono-Blue Delver VS Affinity
R4: Mono-Blue Delver VS UG 8-Post
Note: the guy who beat me came first place, which is a shame since that match so should of been mine
I'm thinking about adding Gush and Ninja of the Deep Hours but they seem like such risky cards to run. What are your thoughts on these cards and which MUs do they shine in?
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
The ninja is just good in general. It lets you return spellstutters to your hand to keep countering stuff, and a 2/2 is a pretty decent body for this deck. Of course, it also draws you cards. It is, however, the first card I tend to side out. It's a good game 1 card, because it's just generically good against the field. Game two, I think we can do better. I generally side out anywhere between one and all four depending on the matchup. Of course, in any mirror situation, you always keep them in.
Gush is good for two reasons: 1) it's a "free" spell. It lets us keep up countermagic while still doing something. That's always important. 2) Since we function on few land to begin with, it lets us use our land drops to generate card advantage. We can tap 2, gush two lands back to our hand and then replay a land. Just like in the above situation with ninjas, it's a way of developing mild card advantage that adds up over the course of a game.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Despite it being a good MU for what I'm playing (UB Trinket), the entire few games are exercises in frustration as I'm countered on what're effectively 2 islands for the first ten turns, with them curving Faeries, Dazes and Ninjas perfectly, or just a a farce where I demolish their hand T3 and proceed to faceroll with various Rats and Mulldrifter beats.
Bluh!
I mean, that's what the deck is designed to do - operate on 2-3 lands and counter everything you play.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Oh, I know ~ just a little frustrating at times; especially all those free spells.
4 Quicksand
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Spire Golem
4 Counterspell
2 Deprive
2 Dispel
2 Exclude
4 Miscalculation
2 Oona's Grace
4 Piracy Charm
2 Prohibit
2 Repeal
4 Think Twice
4 Curse of the Bloody Tome
2 Dispel
1 Exclude
1 Faerie Trickery
2 Frostburn Weird
3 Hydroblast
2 Relic of Progenitus
What do you guys think of this list?